Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[kramerica.inc]

Want this crap to end?
Enforce the laws we have, that are on the books.
Illegal detaining is kidnapping.
Call the cops for something bogus? The caller leaves with a citation for illegal police report.
Enforce the laws we have.

[DocBarrister]

Want this dump to end?
Enforce the laws we have, that are on the books.
Illegal detaining is kidnapping.
Call the cops for something bogus? The caller leaves with a citation for illegal police report.
Enforce the laws we have.

And who is going to enforce the law? Guys like Derek Chauvin?

DocBarrister

[a fan]

Want this dump to end?
Enforce the laws we have, that are on the books.
Illegal detaining is kidnapping.
Call the cops for something bogus? The caller leaves with a citation for illegal police report.
Enforce the laws we have.

+1

The nation' jails getting filled with Karens would be quite the sight to behold.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

Want this dump to end?
Enforce the laws we have, that are on the books.
Illegal detaining is kidnapping.
Call the cops for something bogus? The caller leaves with a citation for illegal police report.
Enforce the laws we have.

it's an interesting point. because i think it asks the difficult question. is this an issue of law, or enforcement?

so with that said, merely restating the issue and assigning the blame, gets little traction.

which is why i think open discussion is critical.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

PS- also a difficult question that docB raised.

[a fan]

Want this dump to end?
Enforce the laws we have, that are on the books.
Illegal detaining is kidnapping.
Call the cops for something bogus? The caller leaves with a citation for illegal police report.
Enforce the laws we have.

And who is going to enforce the law? Guys like Derek Chauvin?

DocBarrister

Did you not just read Holmes' citation, Doc? The man who detained the kid headed to BBall practice was arrested.

[kramerica.inc]

So criminals know the laws the police and gov. turn a blind eye to. It's why they commit the crimes- they think they won't be caught or charged. Its just not that serious.
For example- It's illegal to spit on the sidewalk in some places. Who is enforcing that law? Haul away a couple loogi shooters and people will think twice before they hock one on the curb.
The NCAA each year publishes rules and "areas of emphasis" for lacrosse officials.
Same thing can be done in precincts around the nation that experience a high percentage of these discriminatory crimes or any other crimes, for that matter.

Again, this is not simply a race issue. This is a governance and enforcement issue. The laws are not being created and/or enforced equally.

[a fan]

So criminals know the laws the police and gov. turn a blind eye to. It's why they commit the crimes- they think they won't be caught or charged. Its just not that serious.
For example- It's illegal to spit on the sidewalk in some places. Who is enforcing that law? Haul away a couple loogi shooters and people will think twice before they hock one on the curb.
The NCAA each year publishes rules and "areas of emphasis" for lacrosse officials.
Same thing can be done in precincts around the nation that experience a high percentage of these discriminatory crimes or any other crimes, for that matter.

+1. Call in the State and City attorney, and go through the fine print. Enforce the laws, and take down the network of Karens.

[DocBarrister]

Want this dump to end?
Enforce the laws we have, that are on the books.
Illegal detaining is kidnapping.
Call the cops for something bogus? The caller leaves with a citation for illegal police report.
Enforce the laws we have.

+1

The nation' jails getting filled with Karens would be quite the sight to behold.

A bunch of Karens (and their male counterparts) ruled my HOA. Twice they threatened to force me to perform tens of thousands of dollars of work on my property, which was in pristine shape.

I couldn’t be certain this harassment wasn’t race-based.

What I was certain of was that the all-white HOA board was violating CA statutes in both instances. I know their lawyer agreed because they had to change their charter in one case (in 2010) to incorporate the law that I had pointed out, and in the second case (in 2015) they had to back off when they conceded they didn’t know about the law. I hired a pretty expensive litigation attorney in both cases to make sure they appreciated my perspective on the law.

The board was full of retired white executives who apparently had a vision for what their golf resort community should look like. My wife and I apparently didn’t fit in.

Just one anecdotal story ... but imagine if someone doesn’t have the understanding of the law or the resources to fight back against possibly racist indignities.

Again ... who the hell is going to enforce the law? Too often, the folks charged with that responsibility can’t be trusted to do their job.

DocBarrister

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

anecdotes are helpful- looks like you handled it the right way and sorry you had to endure it.

it's also a good example of kramerica's point- the law might not be the issue here; it's the enforcement.

you did have to use a different channel (the courts) and that's not fair, not to mention, sounds expensive!

[a fan]

A bunch of Karens (and their male counterparts) ruled my HOA. Twice they threatened to force me to perform tens of thousands of dollars of work on my property, which was in pristine shape.

I couldn’t be certain this harassment wasn’t race-based.

It wasn't. These people are freaking everywhere, Doc, and they have no mercy on their fellow neighbors, regardless of race or anything else. My wife and I sometimes read the "neighborhood facebook pages" out loud for entertainment. They're all freaking nuts, regardless of race or political bent.

Again ... who the hell is going to enforce the law? Too often, the folks charged with that responsibility can’t be trusted to do their job.

Some. Some of the folks can't be trusted to do their job. If you don't like your community policing? Now is the time to fix it.

[DocBarrister]

anecdotes are helpful- looks like you handled it the right way and sorry you had to endure it.

it's also a good example of kramerica's point- the law might not be the issue here; it's the enforcement.

you did have to use a different channel (the courts) and that's not fair, not to mention, sounds expensive!

I appreciate the point about enforcement versus the law.

However, the law often needs to be changed because the folks responsible for enforcement can’t be trusted.

Just take my little HOA story. Why did I fight so hard and spend so much money doing so?

Because the HOA had the power under CA HOA and contract law to foreclose on my house if I refused to go along, even if all my mortgage payments were current. They tried to pull this stunt on multiple owners of color (even chasing an African American physician ... one of the original homeowners in the community who lived down the street ... out of the community).

You can’t tell me the CA laws governing the HOA shouldn’t be changed. I’m convinced many were put in place during the 1980s and 1990s so that certain HOA communities could keep their neighborhoods “pure”.

My wife, daughter, and I eventually left after getting sick and tired of living there.

Just a small example of why it’s the law that often needs changing, especially when the people responsible for enforcing the law too often cannot be trusted.

DocBarrister

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

that's fair; it's an example of the law being the issue, not necessarily just the enforcement alone.

i guess the question then is the law pernicious on it's face? deeper than it's face?

[DocBarrister]

A bunch of Karens (and their male counterparts) ruled my HOA. Twice they threatened to force me to perform tens of thousands of dollars of work on my property, which was in pristine shape.

I couldn’t be certain this harassment wasn’t race-based.

It wasn't. These people are freaking everywhere, Doc, and they have no mercy on their fellow neighbors, regardless of race or anything else. My wife and I sometimes read the "neighborhood facebook pages" out loud for entertainment. They're all freaking nuts, regardless of race or political bent.

Again ... who the hell is going to enforce the law? Too often, the folks charged with that responsibility can’t be trusted to do their job.

Some. Some of the folks can't be trusted to do their job. If you don't like your community policing? Now is the time to fix it.

I had a full time job being a litigator, husband, and father. I didn’t have the spare time to fight the damn HOA and its megalomaniacal retirees running the HOA Board. That’s why laws need to be changed ... to prevent people from having to fight such unfair fights.

DocBarrister

[a fan]

I had a full time job being a litigator, husband, and father. I didn’t have the spare time to fight the damn HOA and its megalomaniacal retirees running the HOA Board. That’s why laws need to be changed ... to prevent people from having to fight such unfair fights.

DocBarrister

You'll get NO argument from me. I think HOA's should be illegal in the first place. I have ZERO interest in controlling what my neighbors do.

[DocBarrister]

that's fair; it's an example of the law being the issue, not necessarily just the enforcement alone.

i guess the question then is the law pernicious on it's face? deeper than it's face?

The law needs built-in protections that assume the laws won’t always be enforced fairly. That is arguably the foundation of our entire due process law.

The protections in the law have not kept pace with the enforcement powers. Frankly, the courts are too expensive to provide fair and ready access to people of ordinary means.

Policing laws and anti-discrimination laws need more protections built into them.

Laws need to reflect the practicalities of the real world.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

I had a full time job being a litigator, husband, and father. I didn’t have the spare time to fight the damn HOA and its megalomaniacal retirees running the HOA Board. That’s why laws need to be changed ... to prevent people from having to fight such unfair fights.

DocBarrister

You'll get NO argument from me. I think HOA's should be illegal in the first place. I have ZERO interest in controlling what my neighbors do.

Completely agree with you, a fan.

DocBarrister

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

that's fair; it's an example of the law being the issue, not necessarily just the enforcement alone.

i guess the question then is the law pernicious on it's face? deeper than it's face?

The law needs built-in protections that assume the laws won’t always be enforced fairly. That is arguably the foundation of our entire due process law.

The protections in the law have not kept pace with the enforcement powers. Frankly, the courts are too expensive to provide fair and ready access to people of ordinary means.

Policing laws and anti-discrimination laws need more protections built into them.

Laws need to reflect the practicalities of the real world.

DocBarrister

easy to agree with; hard to draft though.

a broader question but if lawmakers try to write the enforcement out of the law, isnt that an encroachment?

probably a question of degrees. with no real answer.

agreed again on the docket being clogged and inaccessible.

[CU77]

+1. Call in the State and City attorney, and go through the fine print. Enforce the laws, and take down the network of Karens.

Then the Karens are going to call their good friend, the Mayor's wife.

Karens didn't get to be Karens by being powerless.

[tech37]

Tech, I have empathy for more than one person, more than one group of people. And I can empathize with this group for totally different reasons than that group. One of these groups is black Americans. They badly deserve our empathy. For me, politics has nothing to do with this.

How does this say, But don't because you can't? This says, Empathy is not a multiple choice questionnaire.

Stating the obvious here but the people within this thread who continually accuse others of seeing the world through binary, political eyeballs are very binary, political people. The projection is ridiculous.

Make sense please...