Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[kramerica.inc]

Life isn’t rocket science. Life is a series of choices. From the time you are a kid.

The vast majority of people who complain about life being hard are correct. And it’s even tougher when people make lousy decisions.

Show me someone, anyone, of any color, that has a “tough life.” Why is it tough? Almost every time I can point to a collection of bad choices, not institutional racism. Chose not to study, chose not to apply themselves, choose to go out and party, chose not to wear a condom. Guess what, later in life those small decisions add up. Now you don’t have the degree you need to move up in the world. Now you have a kid you need to support, with a lousy job. Now you can’t buy that bigger house or whatever else you need/want.

Life is hard. Even harder when you make bad decisions and expect good results. Don’t like your lot on life? Start working, start studying, start reading. Stop whining. Make better choices and better little decisions.

+1 kram

while it's a very compelling argument, the counterpoint is- why did i make those bad decisions- it's because of racism.

we simply aren't going to get anywhere on this issue because we are talking past each other. the reason we are talking past each other is because we use different definitions of racism.

and so i ask. what is racism.

The counterpoint is often the starting point. I had a head start on virtually every person of color simply because I was the child of a white, middle class mother and father. The spectrum of "decisions" for me -- particularly on the good side -- were enormously better and more plentiful than almost every black kid, probably every black kid I knew growing up in New Jersey. My access to learning was always better, and by better I mean the difference between the NFL and a Pop Warner team. My parent's connections were dramatically better. I made many, many bad decisions -- and still recovered. I am just really doubtful that a black kid doing what I did could make it back.

+1? Good rant. But far removed from any understanding of the reality of being a person of color in this country. Hang on by your fingertips, because the change you resist is certainly coming.

I see and understand what you’re saying, but I’m arguing that It’s life. You had opportunities those black kids didn’t. And you were missing opportunities the higher class had.

Life is hard and it’s still based on specific choices we make. Injecting race into the discussion gives people a crutch, and distracts from the real issues of poor education, opportunities etc. It’s not a solely black or white issue. It’s an America, society and governance issue.

[Peter Brown]

Life is hard. Even harder when you make bad decisions and expect good results. Don’t like your lot on life? Start working, start studying, start reading. Stop whining.

Yes, but you're forgetting that our government is helping all those people who made their own choices.

Just one single example:

-I busted my *ss in high school. So did my brother. Result? Didn't pay for college, and both of us attended private Universities. Both of us worked our way through school.

-about 90% of my HS classmates mailed it in. Where'd they wind up? Scattered in Colorado State JUCOs and Universities on the taxpayer's dime. So taxpayers are on the hook for their laziness. Or, using your narrative, for their parents laziness in not working hard enough to afford a private school. And guess what? About 90% of them turned out to be anti-socialist nutjobs, whining about handouts.....all while taking MY money to pay for their laziness. They attended State Schools. Every. single. one. of. them.

No I want to be crystal clear: I don't PERSONALLY think that not attending college is bad. Or that State Universities are bad or inferior in any way. My point is: those schools take money from citizens. If you believe in what you're saying here, that we shouldn't reward bad decisions that lead to citizens not having the grade to get into Stanford et. al., or that their parents "didn't work hard enough" to afford Stanford, we wouldn't have State Universities in the first place.

Now I'm fine with these State Schools. And I'm fine with the taxman showing up every year, taking my money in every State we sell our spirits in so that places like Pete's University of Florida can exist.

You're telling me that you're not. Those lazy bums should've studied-----and if they didn't? Well, here are the consequences: you can't get in to College at all. Sorry mate. Life is hard.

This is the problem I have with the Republican party. They give us this line about hard work and life isn't fair...and then turn around and empty my pockets to pay for their decisions, and their family's decisions.

I can list other examples until the cows come home. Rural subsidies. 60%+ of all housing originations are backed by my tax dollars.

You guys SAY you believe this stuff. But the way you vote, live, and govern says otherwise. It says: I want help from the government---my fellow taxpayers-----regardless of my choices.

I'm hearing a rumor you sell your swill on some Key north of me. I may dress up as a pirate this weekend and land on Longboat Key shore and see what this Leopold malarkey is all about. I'm supposed to travel out to Colorado for biz but no one wants us healthy Floridians anymore, so eff them.

In any event, you have defeated me...I can't follow your logic nor your inability to wave the white flag. Also, your governor donated to Ilhan Omar's opponent so he must be half-decent a guy. Still, by aligning with the lunatics of the Democratic Party, you will regret that decision someday soon.

Can't wait to ski next Spring...I realize the climate alarmists hate the fact that we still ski, but I have yet to have a bad snow season in over 20 years now.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

Life isn’t rocket science. Life is a series of choices. From the time you are a kid.

The vast majority of people who complain about life being hard are correct. And it’s even tougher when people make lousy decisions.

Show me someone, anyone, of any color, that has a “tough life.” Why is it tough? Almost every time I can point to a collection of bad choices, not institutional racism. Chose not to study, chose not to apply themselves, choose to go out and party, chose not to wear a condom. Guess what, later in life those small decisions add up. Now you don’t have the degree you need to move up in the world. Now you have a kid you need to support, with a lousy job. Now you can’t buy that bigger house or whatever else you need/want.

Life is hard. Even harder when you make bad decisions and expect good results. Don’t like your lot on life? Start working, start studying, start reading. Stop whining. Make better choices and better little decisions.

+1 kram

while it's a very compelling argument, the counterpoint is- why did i make those bad decisions- it's because of racism.

we simply aren't going to get anywhere on this issue because we are talking past each other. the reason we are talking past each other is because we use different definitions of racism.

and so i ask. what is racism.

The counterpoint is often the starting point. I had a head start on virtually every person of color simply because I was the child of a white, middle class mother and father. The spectrum of "decisions" for me -- particularly on the good side -- were enormously better and more plentiful than almost every black kid, probably every black kid I knew growing up in New Jersey. My access to learning was always better, and by better I mean the difference between the NFL and a Pop Warner team. My parent's connections were dramatically better. I made many, many bad decisions -- and still recovered. I am just really doubtful that a black kid doing what I did could make it back.

+1? Good rant. But far removed from any understanding of the reality of being a person of color in this country. Hang on by your fingertips, because the change you resist is certainly coming.

I see and understand what you’re saying, but I’m arguing that It’s life. You had opportunities those black kids didn’t. And you were missing opportunities the higher class had.

Life is hard and it’s still based on specific choices we make. Injecting race into the discussion gives people a crutch, and distracts from the real issues of poor education, opportunities etc. It’s not a solely black or white issue. It’s an America, society and governance issue.

understood- and would add, that it's not just color. it's creed, ethnicity, political beliefs, etc.

also would add that it's a gross generalization. it assumes that all whites have it better than all non-whites. which isnt the case.

if we take that approach, then we have to be prepared for the baby going out with the bathwater.

im just happy we are openly talking about racial issues.

[tech37]

I really disagree with anyone telling me that what I've done with my life is due to White Privilege and I should view everyone non-white, and their situation, from some sort of guilt-ridden purgatory. I view my position in relation to non-whites who have difficult lives just as I view poor whites who have difficult lives. Color has nothing to do with it. That's why, IMO, White Privilege and Fragility are invented racist concepts.

[Peter Brown]

I really disagree with anyone telling me that what I've done with my life is due to White Privilege and I should view everyone non-white, and their situation, from some sort of guilt-ridden purgatory. I view my position in relation to non-whites who have difficult lives just as I view poor whites who have difficult lives. Color has nothing to do with it. That's why, IMO, White Privilege and Fragility are invented racist concepts.

+1


These 'concepts' are Democratic bs narratives to energize a voting and donor base. Only the real idiots buy into it.

[a fan]

In any event, you have defeated me...I can't follow your logic nor your inability to wave the white flag.

Oh, please. You can follow my logic just fine. You just don't like that 1+1=2. You don't want to hear that the University of Florida is a Socialist University, owned and operated by the Government. So what do you do? You act like I'm not making sense.

Can't wait to ski next Spring...I realize the climate alarmists hate the fact that we still ski, but I have yet to have a bad snow season in over 20 years now.

And if you do, you're welcome here anytime.....Although I'm guessing you land in Eagle, not DIA.

[Peter Brown]

In any event, you have defeated me...I can't follow your logic nor your inability to wave the white flag.

Oh, please. You can follow my logic just fine. You just don't like that 1+1=2. You don't want to hear that the University of Florida is a Socialist University, owned and operated by the Government. So what do you do? You act like I'm not making sense.

Can't wait to ski next Spring...I realize the climate alarmists hate the fact that we still ski, but I have yet to have a bad snow season in over 20 years now.

And if you do, you're welcome here anytime.....Although I'm guessing you land in Eagle, not DIA.

That is true. I would have liked to have hiked one of the state's 14,000 foot peaks this summer, but that will have to wait a year.

[seacoaster]

I really disagree with anyone telling me that what I've done with my life is due to White Privilege and I should view everyone non-white, and their situation, from some sort of guilt-ridden purgatory. I view my position in relation to non-whites who have difficult lives just as I view poor whites who have difficult lives. Color has nothing to do with it. That's why, IMO, White Privilege and Fragility are invented racist concepts.

Respectfully (and I mean that), no one -- certainly not I -- is telling you that. Forgive me, but that is the embodiment of the zero-sum illogic that seems to dominate the discussion of privilege. You still are who you are and who you've become. The man, athlete, husband, father, brother, nephew, uncle, co-worker and friend that you are is the person you built through your own work and effort. That never changes, even if we start talking about people who started out with less money or more money, or were black or red, or had access to good schools or less-good schools, etc., etc. No one is telling you or asking you to be in a "guilt-ridden purgatory." The way I see is that what folks are asking is for an understanding that not all starting blocks are in the same, on the same base, yard line, etc. And race -- due to a zillion things, not least of which is the built-in, from the word go, institutionalized position of the generality known as "black people" in this country -- is a factor that detracts and holds back millions of people. No guilt, just recognition.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I really disagree with anyone telling me that what I've done with my life is due to White Privilege and I should view everyone non-white, and their situation, from some sort of guilt-ridden purgatory. I view my position in relation to non-whites who have difficult lives just as I view poor whites who have difficult lives. Color has nothing to do with it. That's why, IMO, White Privilege and Fragility are invented racist concepts.

Who is asking you that? Have you asked any of your friends if they expect that out of YOU?

[tech37]

I really disagree with anyone telling me that what I've done with my life is due to White Privilege and I should view everyone non-white, and their situation, from some sort of guilt-ridden purgatory. I view my position in relation to non-whites who have difficult lives just as I view poor whites who have difficult lives. Color has nothing to do with it. That's why, IMO, White Privilege and Fragility are invented racist concepts.

Respectfully (and I mean that), no one -- certainly not I -- is telling you that. Forgive me, but that is the embodiment of the zero-sum illogic that seems to dominate the discussion of privilege. You still are who you are and who you've become. The man, athlete, husband, father, brother, nephew, uncle, co-worker and friend that you are is the person you built through your own work and effort. That never changes, even if we start talking about people who started out with less money or more money, or were black or red, or had access to good schools or less-good schools, etc., etc. No one is telling you or asking you to be in a "guilt-ridden purgatory." The way I see is that what folks are asking is for an understanding that not all starting blocks are in the same, on the same base, yard line, etc. And race -- due to a zillion things, not least of which is the built-in, from the word go, institutionalized position of the generality known as "black people" in this country -- is a factor that detracts and holds back millions of people. No guilt, just recognition.

Well of course all starting blocks are not the same no matter what color you are referring to. That's called chance.

Should I expect someone in the 1%, no matter their color, to owe me something? No of course not, there's the luck of the draw and then what they did with it.

[Matnum PI]

Pretty good piece about race and lacrosse. https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/fuel/us-l ... 4aBZv-AMec

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

I really disagree with anyone telling me that what I've done with my life is due to White Privilege and I should view everyone non-white, and their situation, from some sort of guilt-ridden purgatory. I view my position in relation to non-whites who have difficult lives just as I view poor whites who have difficult lives. Color has nothing to do with it. That's why, IMO, White Privilege and Fragility are invented racist concepts.

not that i agree nor disagree- but this is why i think the ultimate movement will not take hold with a portion of white voters, who rightly or wrongly think they have it just as bad or worse than others.

that, and we use the term racism to mean different things.

and lastly, if we don't treat each other as equals, i don't think we'll ever achieve bona fide equality.

[Matnum PI]

Well of course all starting blocks are not the same no matter what color you are referring to. That's called chance.

Should I expect someone in the 1%, no matter their color, to owe me something? No of course not, there's the luck of the draw and then what they did with it.

If it was chance, then tails would come up 50% of the time. The position of blacks and whites in america, economically, the judicial system, and otherwise, isn't chance. It's due to a stacked system. And a stacked system is not "luck".

[a fan]

Should I expect someone in the 1%, no matter their color, to owe me something?

The way our government is currently set up? Yes. They SPECIFICALLY not only "owe you something".....they actually give you something to make your life easier.

They pay more taxes for you, so you can pay less. Do you think the 1% needs public schools, for example? Or College scholarships? Or Pell Grants?

Our entire system of governance and taxation, Federal, State, and local is based on the idea that the 1%ers "owe you something".

It wasn't always like this. We CREATED this system out of the idea that those who have more, should give more.

[Matnum PI]

and lastly, if we don't treat each other as equals, i don't think we'll ever achieve bona fide equality.

agreed. and, if people can't see their role in the systematic racism that courses through the blood of america, there's little to no hope for change.

[wgdsr]

Pretty good piece about race and lacrosse. https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/fuel/us-l ... 4aBZv-AMec

that's my man kenny. awesome dude.

[Typical Lax Dad]

How is this helpful?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/trump-s ... using.html

Who does this statement appeal to?

[Peter Brown]

Pretty good piece about race and lacrosse. https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/fuel/us-l ... 4aBZv-AMec

Whoa...what a great article!! I love it. Thanks for posting.

[a fan]

How is this helpful?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/trump-s ... using.html

Who does this statement appeal to?

The same posters on this very Forum who think they don't get assistance from the Federal government, and think "therefore" these low income housing citizens are getting a handout for a home. They think the .gov backing they received "doesn't count".

Newsflash: as of 2017, and according to the GAO, 70% of all home loans were directly or indirectly backed by the .gov.

70%, folks. Seven-zero. Handouts. Dole. Free cr*p. And I'd wager that about 99% of the people getting these handouts would deny it's a handout to their dying days.

This is the new America---"handouts for me, and F everyone else. Those people need to quit whining and get another job. What's that you say? What about the housing handout that I got? Oh, well I'm going to hold my breath and stamp my feet and pretend that that handout 'doesn't count'".

https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-19-239 ... iginations.

[Typical Lax Dad]

How is this helpful?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/trump-s ... using.html

Who does this statement appeal to?

The same posters on this very Forum who think they don't get assistance from the Federal government, and think "therefore" these low income housing citizens are getting a handout for a home. They think the .gov backing they received "doesn't count".

Newsflash: as of 2017, and according to the GAO, 70% of all home loans were directly or indirectly backed by the .gov.

70%, folks. Seven-zero. Handouts. Dole. Free cr*p. And I'd wager that about 99% of the people getting these handouts would deny it's a handout to their dying days.

This is the new America---"handouts for me, and F everyone else. Those people need to quit whining and get another job. What's that you say? What about the housing handout that I got? Oh, well I'm going to hold my breath and stamp my feet and pretend that that handout 'doesn't count'".

https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-19-239 ... iginations.

There were some $300k low income units going up here. 2 units. That’s low income?