Yale 2020

[FannOLax]

Okay, maybe this article belongs on a Yale 2018 thread, but... while Ben Reeves was rightfully recognized, I feel that Conor Mackie, Chris Keating and Ty Warner were also vital members of that wonderful national championship team. This is a recent article on Warner: https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ness/56618

[calourie]

Okay, maybe this article belongs on a Yale 2018 thread, but... while Ben Reeves was rightfully recognized, I feel that Conor Mackie, Chris Keating and Ty Warner were also vital members of that wonderful national championship team. This is a recent article on Warner: https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ness/56618

Warner's size, speed and general skill set were all impressive, but what stood out as his wow factor was his footwork. In my mind he was without a doubt the premier SSDM in the country his senior year, mildly snubbed by being only a 2nd team AA, but what the heck, he more than earned his championship ring.

I find it hard to think about college lacrosse with so much else going on, but I did take advantage of watching the ESPN replay of Yale's championship win over Duke the other evening. Warner stood out as much as anyone, but It was also impressive to watch how well the Bulldogs played as a team, and to realize how well Shay had coached them up. I hope we get to see more of the latter sooner rather than later.

Here's wishing everyone good luck and health as we try to get through to the other side of this Covid scourge.

[FannOLax]

...I find it hard to think about college lacrosse with so much else going on, but I did take advantage of watching the ESPN replay of Yale's championship win over Duke the other evening. Warner stood out as much as anyone, but It was also impressive to watch how well the Bulldogs played as a team, and to realize how well Shay had coached them up. I hope we get to see more of the latter sooner rather than later.

Here's wishing everyone good luck and health as we try to get through to the other side of this Covid scourge.

Yes, that was a complete team, well-coached... and I remember pre-season 2018, a number of regulars on the old LaxPower boards thought Quint was crazy to rank Yale in the top 5. Ah well, too easy to get sentimental...

Yes, the Covid scourge; if only it were a bad dream and we could wake up back in mundane reality. So many unknowns, so much uncertainty. Good health and good luck to everyone.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Okay, maybe this article belongs on a Yale 2018 thread, but... while Ben Reeves was rightfully recognized, I feel that Conor Mackie, Chris Keating and Ty Warner were also vital members of that wonderful national championship team. This is a recent article on Warner: https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ness/56618

Conor Mackie was woefully underrated. I have no idea what clicked in him. He went from being a so so FOGO the first few games of his sophomore year to one of the best in the country. It was like over night. I liked that Yale team. All under the radar grind it out players, pretty much.

[FannOLax]

Okay, maybe this article belongs on a Yale 2018 thread, but... while Ben Reeves was rightfully recognized, I feel that Conor Mackie, Chris Keating and Ty Warner were also vital members of that wonderful national championship team. This is a recent article on Warner: https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ness/56618

Conor Mackie was woefully underrated. I have no idea what clicked in him. He went from being a so so FOGO the first few games of his sophomore year to one of the best in the country. It was like over night. I liked that Yale team. All under the radar grind it out players, pretty much.

Well, Conor Mackie was 3rd Team All American in 2018, behind Baptiste and TD. In the regular-season game against Albany, Mackie was over 50% against TD, while in the NCAA semi Conor was over 40% against TD. Pro lacrosse on main NBC channel at 4 p.m. Eastern this afternoon should give us a chance to see Ty Warner in action.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Okay, maybe this article belongs on a Yale 2018 thread, but... while Ben Reeves was rightfully recognized, I feel that Conor Mackie, Chris Keating and Ty Warner were also vital members of that wonderful national championship team. This is a recent article on Warner: https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ness/56618

Conor Mackie was woefully underrated. I have no idea what clicked in him. He went from being a so so FOGO the first few games of his sophomore year to one of the best in the country. It was like over night. I liked that Yale team. All under the radar grind it out players, pretty much.

Well, Conor Mackie was 3rd Team All American in 2018, behind Baptiste and TD. In the regular-season game against Albany, Mackie was over 50% against TD, while in the NCAA semi Conor was over 40% against TD. Pro lacrosse on main NBC channel at 4 p.m. Eastern this afternoon should give us a chance to see Ty Warner in action.

Yes. But he drew almost 0 media attention. Really good.

[FannOLax]

After Yale's 2019 home win over Brown, there was a fairly extensive discussion of Matt Gaudet's "chirping" (AKA "trash talking"). During that game Gaudet's "banter" extended beyond the field of play to the Brown bench; if I recall correctly, Gaudet served a one-minute penalty for his provocative taunts. Apparently, he hasn't changed his propensity for talking since turning pro:
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ved-/56681
Here's hoping that everyone reading this is healthy and safe, and that there will be a 2021 NCAA lacrosse season.

[The Orfling]

After Yale's 2019 home win over Brown, there was a fairly extensive discussion of Matt Gaudet's "chirping" (AKA "trash talking"). During that game Gaudet's "banter" extended beyond the field of play to the Brown bench; if I recall correctly, Gaudet served a one-minute penalty for his provocative taunts. Apparently, he hasn't changed his propensity for talking since turning pro:
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ved-/56681
Here's hoping that everyone reading this is healthy and safe, and that there will be a 2021 NCAA lacrosse season.

Matt Gaudet is a Canadian, and comes out of the Canadian tradition of the hockey chirp. He was an excellent teammate and student in college and, from what I heard, was generally liked outside the lines by opponents even if they found his chirping infuriating on game day. Really nice to young fans. It was clear that once Yale achieved a certain level of success he and the team were under a microscope, and I thought it made sense to curb his more mischievous impulses for the good of the team. Those Yale teams had an edge -- they weren't the guys with the pocket protector who were going to get beat up or intimidated -- and those who remember Brown's 2016 Final Four team will remember they had a similar edge.

When it comes to pros, trash talking or chirping is rife in any and every contact sport. Gaudet didn't use any sort of slur (which is unacceptable) -- he just made the obviously silly statement that the best goalie in the league "sucks." The reason an opposing team defenseman didn't take a run at him is because they understand that it's a chirp and because it was indeed objectively silly. Gaudet has a Rob Gronkowski-type playfulness about him and people who are wringing their hands don't pay much attention to the culture of sports.

The best argument I've heard against his sort of chirping -- and it's a fair one -- is that it encourages high school and youth players to imitate it. Perhaps it's intellectually inconsistent of me but for younger players, HS and youth game, and at levels where there's often a disparity in talent, I think it's important for coaches to make it clear that "this isn't the pros" and that chirping/trash-talking is not part of the game. So fair take on that. But otherwise I do think the level of passion (I saw one tweet with someone saying they wished he'd get COVID-19) is over the top.

[FannOLax]

.... Those Yale teams had an edge -- they weren't the guys with the pocket protector who were going to get beat up or intimidated -- and those who remember Brown's 2016 Final Four team will remember they had a similar edge.

Brown's subsequent teams also had an edge; Yale v Brown has been a fairly intense lax rivalry, and Gaudet took some hits that looked overly aggressive. He was certainly not a sinner among saints.

[wgdsr]

After Yale's 2019 home win over Brown, there was a fairly extensive discussion of Matt Gaudet's "chirping" (AKA "trash talking"). During that game Gaudet's "banter" extended beyond the field of play to the Brown bench; if I recall correctly, Gaudet served a one-minute penalty for his provocative taunts. Apparently, he hasn't changed his propensity for talking since turning pro:
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ved-/56681
Here's hoping that everyone reading this is healthy and safe, and that there will be a 2021 NCAA lacrosse season.

Matt Gaudet is a Canadian, and comes out of the Canadian tradition of the hockey chirp. He was an excellent teammate and student in college and, from what I heard, was generally liked outside the lines by opponents even if they found his chirping infuriating on game day. Really nice to young fans. It was clear that once Yale achieved a certain level of success he and the team were under a microscope, and I thought it made sense to curb his more mischievous impulses for the good of the team. Those Yale teams had an edge -- they weren't the guys with the pocket protector who were going to get beat up or intimidated -- and those who remember Brown's 2016 Final Four team will remember they had a similar edge.

When it comes to pros, trash talking or chirping is rife in any and every contact sport. Gaudet didn't use any sort of slur (which is unacceptable) -- he just made the obviously silly statement that the best goalie in the league "sucks." The reason an opposing team defenseman didn't take a run at him is because they understand that it's a chirp and because it was indeed objectively silly. Gaudet has a Rob Gronkowski-type playfulness about him and people who are wringing their hands don't pay much attention to the culture of sports.

The best argument I've heard against his sort of chirping -- and it's a fair one -- is that it encourages high school and youth players to imitate it. Perhaps it's intellectually inconsistent of me but for younger players, HS and youth game, and at levels where there's often a disparity in talent, I think it's important for coaches to make it clear that "this isn't the pros" and that chirping/trash-talking is not part of the game. So fair take on that. But otherwise I do think the level of passion (I saw one tweet with someone saying they wished he'd get COVID-19) is over the top.

this is going to be a downside, if you want to call it that, of miking guys up. comes with the territory, the pro league has determined, and probably with good reason, they need to do some things different to get on the radar. on balance, it's a smart idea. you're gonna have some ups and downs on that. they seem to be fine with promoting that line on gaudet so far, so i doubt it abates unless they or he get too much backlash.

coaches of younger kids who'd rather not have their guys emulating that probably aren't overjoyed (i'm not), but it's just another rock to push up the hill. not like it's the only one.

interesting.. saw more than a couple guys taking shots at yale for past transgressions of similar ilk. could be gaudet, others, jealously... we're not there.
my own experience is goalies are often the first to chirp. don't know if that's in riorden's schtick, but he (and they) started out hot and it coulda been some payback, too.
this is a longstanding thing at post-collegiate levels. mike 'em up, and you're gonna see it from someone.

[The Orfling]

this is going to be a downside, if you want to call it that, of miking guys up. comes with the territory, the pro league has determined, and probably with good reason, they need to do some things different to get on the radar. on balance, it's a smart idea. you're gonna have some ups and downs on that. they seem to be fine with promoting that line on gaudet so far, so i doubt it abates unless they or he get too much backlash.

coaches of younger kids who'd rather not have their guys emulating that probably aren't overjoyed (i'm not), but it's just another rock to push up the hill. not like it's the only one.

interesting.. saw more than a couple guys taking shots at yale for past transgressions of similar ilk. could be gaudet, others, jealously... we're not there.
my own experience is goalies are often the first to chirp. don't know if that's in riorden's schtick, but he (and they) started out hot and it coulda been some payback, too.
this is a longstanding thing at post-collegiate levels. mike 'em up, and you're gonna see it from someone.

All great points, wgdsr. I like the line about pushing the rock up the hill -- well said.

[The Orfling]

One more angle on Matt Gaudet's chirping/trash talking. In last night's game, the opposing team, the Redwoods, clearly headhunted him (including Epple delivering two cross checks to Gaudet's head while he was on the ground after a first legal hit). Remembering some of the hits Gaudet took in college that seemed similarly motivated, I worry about his long term brain health. "Owning space rent free in your opponents' heads" is not worth the risk he is taking.

Should a mouthy player be able to chirp without taking repeated blows to the head? Yes. But with ingrained sports culture what it is, whether it's what I watched last night or somebody throwing a 95 mile an hour fastball at a batter who flipped his bat after a home run, I really worry about Gaudet.

[DaneFan]

I witnessed the Gaudet show for 5-6 years, and having played a different sport in college and a son who plays I have seen and heard my fair share of chirping and probably participated in some along the way as well. There is chirping and then there is disrespect, and it happens in every sport, but when I see a high school or college player slow walking the sideline and telling the opposing coach to F' off then that is way beyond chirping.

I saw a current professional player, and coach chirping teenage kids about not being committed. Lacrosse has a broader problem IMO. I am not saying we have to all hold hands and sing kumbaya, and that players can't get fired up, but over my years of being around the sport I have seen way too much over the line behavior in relation to what the game is supposed to be about.

I want to add IMHO this is less about Gaudet per se, but more about the bizarre culture and behavior from many parents, coaches, and players that is allowed to permeate the sport.

[Lax3]

Gaudet was like a Timex watch last night ... took a licking and kept on ticking! He got slammed all over the field by the Redwoods - we can always depend on Garrett Epple for being stupid as stupid can be on a lacrosse field, always reliable like that - but didn't respond once. Chrome scored three goals on the two non-releasable penalties taken by Epple and won the game by one goal. I give Gaudet - or his coaches? - credit for not agreeing to have the helmet microphone last night. He certainly did not need to be the focal point again. I did like his approach ... his coach started to tell him before the game that he was going to be targeted and Gaudet just said to him "I know, coach, I got it."

[HopFan16]

Anyone pay attention to Tehoka Nanticoke's twitter feed the past few days? He accused Yale and Gaudet specifically of some rather unsavory things—not just normal trash talk. Remember when Gaudet said something to Nanticoke as he was walking off the field and Nanticoke cocked back as if to punch Gaudet in response after the 2018 playoff game? Tehoka now seems to be implying that Gaudet said something racist, although it's admittedly a little hard to parse exactly what Tehoka is alleging Gaudet/Yale did specifically vs. general racism he's seen throughout his time in college.

[faircornell]

Anyone pay attention to Tehoka Nanticoke's twitter feed the past few days? He accused Yale and Gaudet specifically of some rather unsavory things—not just normal trash talk. Remember when Gaudet said something to Nanticoke as he was walking off the field and Nanticoke cocked back as if to punch Gaudet in response after the 2018 playoff game? Tehoka now seems to be implying that Gaudet said something racist, although it's admittedly a little hard to parse exactly what Tehoka is alleging Gaudet/Yale did specifically vs. general racism he's seen throughout his time in college.

Shocking stuff. Not 'chirping'.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Anyone pay attention to Tehoka Nanticoke's twitter feed the past few days? He accused Yale and Gaudet specifically of some rather unsavory things—not just normal trash talk. Remember when Gaudet said something to Nanticoke as he was walking off the field and Nanticoke cocked back as if to punch Gaudet in response after the 2018 playoff game? Tehoka now seems to be implying that Gaudet said something racist, although it's admittedly a little hard to parse exactly what Tehoka is alleging Gaudet/Yale did specifically vs. general racism he's seen throughout his time in college.

I really don’t know why that stuff is tolerated. It’s unnecessary.

[The Orfling]

Glad to see the PLL suspended Epple: https://twitter.com/premierlacrosse/sta ... 20001?s=21

[Farfromgeneva]

Speaking of talking and retaliation in the PLL, thought Brodie Merrill was going to break Christian Mazzone in half like Bane did to Batman in that last movie (that wasn’t excellent). Perhaps Gaudet could hold his own but Merrill would beat the stuffing out of Mazzone

[MDlaxfan76]

My two cents.

The trash talk between players on the field, between the players on the field, is part of the game, and by the way at the HS level as well. I participated in lots of such, and my son did as well. The game is ferocious, or should be. The great competitors thrive in that environment. You need a tough skin.

But...
1) it's between the players, not with coaches nor fans.
2) it ends with the final buzzer, with respect post game.
3) it should never cross the line with any sort of racism or taunt that can't be easily forgiven, nor anything else that can't end with respect post game.

If it goes beyond that, it's indeed "classless" and definitely poor sportsmanship. If it goes beyond the tolerance of the refs, expect penalties. If it goes beyond the tolerance of your opponent's team mates, expect physical response in return.

Bottomline, it's a choice as to whether you're considered a good sportsman or a classless jerk.

Really want to mess with your opponent's head, compliment them when they make a nice play, then snuff them (or score on them) on the next and chuckle.

In discussing such with my son, there were certainly those players who were considered the latter, but for the most part, the players on the field left it on the field, respecting the competitive drives of the opponent. One of the most fierce such contests I saw my son in was against Brown, with all sorts of on field chatter and really bad fan behavior...my son actually loved the intensity...and after the game multiple Brown players embraced him and he them. Mutual respect.

Cheap shots are another matter...not cool, period. Actually dangerous.

As to the comment about Epple, my son and Garrett played many years on the same club team as well as against one another. Liked one another, goalie and his enforcer. Garrett definitely never missed an opportunity to take a whack, a beast with a stick, often egregiously out of control, but I don't know that it was ever more than simply loss of control. We definitely cringed whenever he'd draw an unnecessary foul, and I do know that when playing against him, opponents would look to draw that from him...part of the game.

Sounds like he lost control, badly, beyond acceptable.

Just my opinion.