Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

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jhu72
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by jhu72 »

Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:24 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:19 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:13 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:00 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:26 pm
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:20 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:33 am
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:19 am Why not start a new thread of disparate videos of crimes being committed?
Why seacoaster? Seems relevant considering it's an example of racial policies run amok in NYC. No cops to be found, and if there was, what could they do?
I don't see how showing a fight/mugging in an bodega is "an example of racial policies" at all. This appears to be nothing more than a video of a criminal act. I get it: it involves black folks.
I see, just a coincidence... So you think this would inevitably happen, despite all of the anarchy that has ensued since Dem mayor's forgot about law and order and put all the onus on police? Wow...
Obviously, yes.

The cavalry arrived, as you want. Fed troops in full battle gear.

How's that working out? You, YA, OS, and others think that force will fix the problem.

Have you noticed yet that it ain't workin'?


What's your solution, a fan? Should you let the fella's burn down the courthouse?


So the referenced video shows someone burning down a courthouse now? :lol: :lol: what a maroon. :lol:


The maroon is staring at you in the mirror, bruh.

What I'm asking a fan, which you are free to opine on as well, is: yes, the feds have moved in to some cities for different reasons but in Portland's case to protect a federal courthouse: if 'it' isn't working' (ie" there seems to be more agitated lefties rioting), what's your solution? Should you simply let the Left burn down federal buildings?

You can be super honest about that and I won't laugh if you say yes. I believe many lefties would have no problem if these rioting cousins burned down federal buildings, and I'd applaud you if you'd be honest on a public board about that.
… same old fake crime story. Not one federal building has burned down. A few have had easily put out fires started around the building. NOT ONE INDIVIDUAL IS CURRENTLY KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH STARTING A FIRE WITH INTENT TO BURN DOWN A BUILDING in Portland. Not clear who if anyone has really been serious about burning down a building, but you are sure its the left. I submit you have no idea!

I answered your hypothetical question last week. So has a fan. :roll:
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holmes435
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by holmes435 »

The Portland thing started with protesters demanding that police should be legally accountable for excessive use of force.

Like a fan and others mentioned, protests were getting smaller and smaller over time until DHS rolled into town and poured a barrel full of gasoline on a dying fire. Now the protests are 10x as big, and no meaningful changes have been made to address some simple demands from the people.

If the Portland Police Bureau had met in good faith with the protesters back in may and worked together to come up with a plan, they could have avoided that whole mess. Unfortunately they don't like to give up power and admit there may be a problem. So here we are.
tech37
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by tech37 »

holmes435 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:11 pm The Portland thing started with protesters demanding that police should be legally accountable for excessive use of force.

Like a fan and others mentioned, protests were getting smaller and smaller over time until DHS rolled into town and poured a barrel full of gasoline on a dying fire. Now the protests are 10x as big, and no meaningful changes have been made to address some simple demands from the people.

If the Portland Police Bureau had met in good faith with the protesters back in may and worked together to come up with a plan, they could have avoided that whole mess. Unfortunately they don't like to give up power and admit there may be a problem. So here we are.
:roll: There are protesters and then there are anarchists...why so difficult not to admit that?
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holmes435
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by holmes435 »

tech37 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:14 pm
holmes435 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:11 pm The Portland thing started with protesters demanding that police should be legally accountable for excessive use of force.

Like a fan and others mentioned, protests were getting smaller and smaller over time until DHS rolled into town and poured a barrel full of gasoline on a dying fire. Now the protests are 10x as big, and no meaningful changes have been made to address some simple demands from the people.

If the Portland Police Bureau had met in good faith with the protesters back in may and worked together to come up with a plan, they could have avoided that whole mess. Unfortunately they don't like to give up power and admit there may be a problem. So here we are.
:roll: There are protesters and then there are anarchists...why so difficult not to admit that?
There are protesters and there are anarchists. Happy?

But saying they're all anarchists is like saying all cops are bad. :roll:
a fan
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by a fan »

Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:26 pm That is an honest answer. One minor problem might be this: in Portland's case alone, there are on average 5,000 'protesters' every night
Yeah, now that Trump sat on his *ss for weeks, the protests are bigger.

The bulk of the protesters are lucid, intelligent, rational Americans who want legislative change. Trump/McConnell could have, and didn't, spoken with them weeks ago. You know: actually govern. (and yep, Pelosi, too....I'm simply pointing out the opportunity for your team here). That door is still wide open, and it's a freaking election year. Do your job, and votes will follow.

If the rational protesters are gone, the nutjobs are left to fend for themselves, if they are there at all. Film every one of them. Arrest them, and throw the Federal book at them if they actually, really try and set fire to a Federal building.

Outsmart them. As I said before, you'd be better off blocking Wifi in a mile radius than you would sending in Federal troops. The violent ones are a bunch of dumb kids. Treat them as such, and they'll run home to Mommy.
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CU77
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by CU77 »

And the tiny number of true anarchists would have been sidelined if holmes435's advice had been followed:
If the Portland Police Bureau had met in good faith with the protesters back in may and worked together to come up with a plan, they could have avoided that whole mess.
Peter Brown
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by Peter Brown »

jhu72 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:57 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:24 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:19 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:13 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:00 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:26 pm
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:20 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:33 am
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:19 am Why not start a new thread of disparate videos of crimes being committed?
Why seacoaster? Seems relevant considering it's an example of racial policies run amok in NYC. No cops to be found, and if there was, what could they do?
I don't see how showing a fight/mugging in an bodega is "an example of racial policies" at all. This appears to be nothing more than a video of a criminal act. I get it: it involves black folks.
I see, just a coincidence... So you think this would inevitably happen, despite all of the anarchy that has ensued since Dem mayor's forgot about law and order and put all the onus on police? Wow...
Obviously, yes.

The cavalry arrived, as you want. Fed troops in full battle gear.

How's that working out? You, YA, OS, and others think that force will fix the problem.

Have you noticed yet that it ain't workin'?


What's your solution, a fan? Should you let the fella's burn down the courthouse?


So the referenced video shows someone burning down a courthouse now? :lol: :lol: what a maroon. :lol:


The maroon is staring at you in the mirror, bruh.

What I'm asking a fan, which you are free to opine on as well, is: yes, the feds have moved in to some cities for different reasons but in Portland's case to protect a federal courthouse: if 'it' isn't working' (ie" there seems to be more agitated lefties rioting), what's your solution? Should you simply let the Left burn down federal buildings?

You can be super honest about that and I won't laugh if you say yes. I believe many lefties would have no problem if these rioting cousins burned down federal buildings, and I'd applaud you if you'd be honest on a public board about that.
… same old fake crime story. Not one federal building has burned down. A few have had easily put out fires started around the building. NOT ONE INDIVIDUAL IS CURRENTLY KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH STARTING A FIRE WITH INTENT TO BURN DOWN A BUILDING in Portland. Not clear who if anyone has really been serious about burning down a building, but you are sure its the left. I submit you have no idea!

I answered your hypothetical question last week. So has a fan. :roll:


They haven’t burned down because the federal agents are protecting them.

You’re not looking at the actual news if you think these birdbrains wouldn’t torch these buildings if given half a chance.
jhu72
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by jhu72 »

Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:42 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:57 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:24 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:19 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:13 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:00 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:26 pm
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:20 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:33 am
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:19 am Why not start a new thread of disparate videos of crimes being committed?
Why seacoaster? Seems relevant considering it's an example of racial policies run amok in NYC. No cops to be found, and if there was, what could they do?
I don't see how showing a fight/mugging in an bodega is "an example of racial policies" at all. This appears to be nothing more than a video of a criminal act. I get it: it involves black folks.
I see, just a coincidence... So you think this would inevitably happen, despite all of the anarchy that has ensued since Dem mayor's forgot about law and order and put all the onus on police? Wow...
Obviously, yes.

The cavalry arrived, as you want. Fed troops in full battle gear.

How's that working out? You, YA, OS, and others think that force will fix the problem.

Have you noticed yet that it ain't workin'?


What's your solution, a fan? Should you let the fella's burn down the courthouse?


So the referenced video shows someone burning down a courthouse now? :lol: :lol: what a maroon. :lol:


The maroon is staring at you in the mirror, bruh.

What I'm asking a fan, which you are free to opine on as well, is: yes, the feds have moved in to some cities for different reasons but in Portland's case to protect a federal courthouse: if 'it' isn't working' (ie" there seems to be more agitated lefties rioting), what's your solution? Should you simply let the Left burn down federal buildings?

You can be super honest about that and I won't laugh if you say yes. I believe many lefties would have no problem if these rioting cousins burned down federal buildings, and I'd applaud you if you'd be honest on a public board about that.
… same old fake crime story. Not one federal building has burned down. A few have had easily put out fires started around the building. NOT ONE INDIVIDUAL IS CURRENTLY KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH STARTING A FIRE WITH INTENT TO BURN DOWN A BUILDING in Portland. Not clear who if anyone has really been serious about burning down a building, but you are sure its the left. I submit you have no idea!

I answered your hypothetical question last week. So has a fan. :roll:


They haven’t burned down because the federal agents are protecting them.

You’re not looking at the actual news if you think these birdbrains wouldn’t torch these buildings if given half a chance.
… you mean the birdbrain white supremacists as reported above? Those birdbrains?
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Peter Brown
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by Peter Brown »

jhu72 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:52 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:42 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:57 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:24 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:19 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:13 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:00 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:26 pm
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:20 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:33 am
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:19 am Why not start a new thread of disparate videos of crimes being committed?
Why seacoaster? Seems relevant considering it's an example of racial policies run amok in NYC. No cops to be found, and if there was, what could they do?
I don't see how showing a fight/mugging in an bodega is "an example of racial policies" at all. This appears to be nothing more than a video of a criminal act. I get it: it involves black folks.
I see, just a coincidence... So you think this would inevitably happen, despite all of the anarchy that has ensued since Dem mayor's forgot about law and order and put all the onus on police? Wow...
Obviously, yes.

The cavalry arrived, as you want. Fed troops in full battle gear.

How's that working out? You, YA, OS, and others think that force will fix the problem.

Have you noticed yet that it ain't workin'?


What's your solution, a fan? Should you let the fella's burn down the courthouse?


So the referenced video shows someone burning down a courthouse now? :lol: :lol: what a maroon. :lol:


The maroon is staring at you in the mirror, bruh.

What I'm asking a fan, which you are free to opine on as well, is: yes, the feds have moved in to some cities for different reasons but in Portland's case to protect a federal courthouse: if 'it' isn't working' (ie" there seems to be more agitated lefties rioting), what's your solution? Should you simply let the Left burn down federal buildings?

You can be super honest about that and I won't laugh if you say yes. I believe many lefties would have no problem if these rioting cousins burned down federal buildings, and I'd applaud you if you'd be honest on a public board about that.
… same old fake crime story. Not one federal building has burned down. A few have had easily put out fires started around the building. NOT ONE INDIVIDUAL IS CURRENTLY KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH STARTING A FIRE WITH INTENT TO BURN DOWN A BUILDING in Portland. Not clear who if anyone has really been serious about burning down a building, but you are sure its the left. I submit you have no idea!

I answered your hypothetical question last week. So has a fan. :roll:


They haven’t burned down because the federal agents are protecting them.

You’re not looking at the actual news if you think these birdbrains wouldn’t torch these buildings if given half a chance.
… you mean the birdbrain white supremacists as reported above? Those birdbrains?


No, I mean the lefty birdbrains like this guy in Colorado who tried to be a hero and shot at a car but ended up hitting other lefty birdbrains

https://www.9news.com/article/news/loca ... bf77bafa48


Or this yo yo in Austin trying to be a hero:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/26/us/a ... tests.html


The left ain’t sharp.
Peter Brown
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by Peter Brown »

a fan wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:22 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:26 pm That is an honest answer. One minor problem might be this: in Portland's case alone, there are on average 5,000 'protesters' every night
Yeah, now that Trump sat on his *ss for weeks, the protests are bigger.

The bulk of the protesters are lucid, intelligent, rational Americans who want legislative change. Trump/McConnell could have, and didn't, spoken with them weeks ago. You know: actually govern. (and yep, Pelosi, too....I'm simply pointing out the opportunity for your team here). That door is still wide open, and it's a freaking election year. Do your job, and votes will follow.

If the rational protesters are gone, the nutjobs are left to fend for themselves, if they are there at all. Film every one of them. Arrest them, and throw the Federal book at them if they actually, really try and set fire to a Federal building.

Outsmart them. As I said before, you'd be better off blocking Wifi in a mile radius than you would sending in Federal troops. The violent ones are a bunch of dumb kids. Treat them as such, and they'll run home to Mommy.


Also, these 'peaceful protesters' far away from Portland in Oakland tried to burn down a courthouse yesterday as well.

https://apnews.com/80145dc4942501c55a3c ... _medium=AP

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1287565477854810122?s=20

You sure the 'bulk of the protesters are lucid, intelligent, rational Americans'? It's been a long while since I knew anyone who wanted to torch a federal courthouse. How about you?
tech37
Posts: 4364
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by tech37 »

holmes435 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:18 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:14 pm
holmes435 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:11 pm The Portland thing started with protesters demanding that police should be legally accountable for excessive use of force.

Like a fan and others mentioned, protests were getting smaller and smaller over time until DHS rolled into town and poured a barrel full of gasoline on a dying fire. Now the protests are 10x as big, and no meaningful changes have been made to address some simple demands from the people.

If the Portland Police Bureau had met in good faith with the protesters back in may and worked together to come up with a plan, they could have avoided that whole mess. Unfortunately they don't like to give up power and admit there may be a problem. So here we are.
:roll: There are protesters and then there are anarchists...why so difficult not to admit that?
There are protesters and there are anarchists. Happy?

But saying they're all anarchists is like saying all cops are bad. :roll:
You're confused i think...who said they're all bad?
jhu72
Posts: 14153
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by jhu72 »

Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:01 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:52 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:42 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:57 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:24 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:19 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:13 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:00 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:26 pm
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:20 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:33 am
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:19 am Why not start a new thread of disparate videos of crimes being committed?
Why seacoaster? Seems relevant considering it's an example of racial policies run amok in NYC. No cops to be found, and if there was, what could they do?
I don't see how showing a fight/mugging in an bodega is "an example of racial policies" at all. This appears to be nothing more than a video of a criminal act. I get it: it involves black folks.
I see, just a coincidence... So you think this would inevitably happen, despite all of the anarchy that has ensued since Dem mayor's forgot about law and order and put all the onus on police? Wow...
Obviously, yes.

The cavalry arrived, as you want. Fed troops in full battle gear.

How's that working out? You, YA, OS, and others think that force will fix the problem.

Have you noticed yet that it ain't workin'?


What's your solution, a fan? Should you let the fella's burn down the courthouse?


So the referenced video shows someone burning down a courthouse now? :lol: :lol: what a maroon. :lol:


The maroon is staring at you in the mirror, bruh.

What I'm asking a fan, which you are free to opine on as well, is: yes, the feds have moved in to some cities for different reasons but in Portland's case to protect a federal courthouse: if 'it' isn't working' (ie" there seems to be more agitated lefties rioting), what's your solution? Should you simply let the Left burn down federal buildings?

You can be super honest about that and I won't laugh if you say yes. I believe many lefties would have no problem if these rioting cousins burned down federal buildings, and I'd applaud you if you'd be honest on a public board about that.
… same old fake crime story. Not one federal building has burned down. A few have had easily put out fires started around the building. NOT ONE INDIVIDUAL IS CURRENTLY KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH STARTING A FIRE WITH INTENT TO BURN DOWN A BUILDING in Portland. Not clear who if anyone has really been serious about burning down a building, but you are sure its the left. I submit you have no idea!

I answered your hypothetical question last week. So has a fan. :roll:


They haven’t burned down because the federal agents are protecting them.

You’re not looking at the actual news if you think these birdbrains wouldn’t torch these buildings if given half a chance.
… you mean the birdbrain white supremacists as reported above? Those birdbrains?


No, I mean the lefty birdbrains like this guy in Colorado who tried to be a hero and shot at a car but ended up hitting other lefty birdbrains

https://www.9news.com/article/news/loca ... bf77bafa48


Or this yo yo in Austin trying to be a hero:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/26/us/a ... tests.html


The left ain’t sharp.
… now we have your interpretation of what went on - we will see how the police and courts sort out who was at fault and who was who. :roll:

Interesting stories, but what does it have to do with burning federal buildings or protecting them? NOT A SINGLE FEDERAL BUILDING HAS BEEN BURNED DOWN as you originally asserted. :lol:
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jhu72
Posts: 14153
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by jhu72 »

Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:17 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:22 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:26 pm That is an honest answer. One minor problem might be this: in Portland's case alone, there are on average 5,000 'protesters' every night
Yeah, now that Trump sat on his *ss for weeks, the protests are bigger.

The bulk of the protesters are lucid, intelligent, rational Americans who want legislative change. Trump/McConnell could have, and didn't, spoken with them weeks ago. You know: actually govern. (and yep, Pelosi, too....I'm simply pointing out the opportunity for your team here). That door is still wide open, and it's a freaking election year. Do your job, and votes will follow.

If the rational protesters are gone, the nutjobs are left to fend for themselves, if they are there at all. Film every one of them. Arrest them, and throw the Federal book at them if they actually, really try and set fire to a Federal building.

Outsmart them. As I said before, you'd be better off blocking Wifi in a mile radius than you would sending in Federal troops. The violent ones are a bunch of dumb kids. Treat them as such, and they'll run home to Mommy.


Also, these 'peaceful protesters' far away from Portland in Oakland tried to burn down a courthouse yesterday as well.

https://apnews.com/80145dc4942501c55a3c ... _medium=AP

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1287565477854810122?s=20

You sure the 'bulk of the protesters are lucid, intelligent, rational Americans'? It's been a long while since I knew anyone who wanted to torch a federal courthouse. How about you?
… real blaze there pokey. :lol:
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seacoaster
Posts: 8866
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by seacoaster »

https://www.justsecurity.org/71696/form ... democracy/

“ I believe deeply that how our government’s security forces are seen by the American public is critical to their ability to protect us and our ability to maintain a healthy democracy. That belief comes from experience: I served for decades in the U.S. Marine Corps, as a Department of Defense spokesperson, and as the Trump administration’s first Department of Homeland of Security spokesperson. It’s as an American who cares profoundly about the missions of both DOD and DHS—and believes their reputations are essential to achieving those missions—that I’ve followed the Trump administration’s heavy-handed response to protests across the country in recent months, and especially DHS’s role in that response. And I’m appalled by what I’m seeing. It’s damaging to DHS, and it’s damaging to American democracy.

Last month, the sight of U.S. military forces on the streets of our nation’s capital surprised and angered many Americans, including military and veteran communities, former diplomats, former senior national security leaders, and the general public. While federal, state, and local law enforcement officers were actively involved in the response to protests in Washington, D.C., it was the mixing of men and women in military uniforms and equipment as part of the law enforcement response that sparked particular concern for me. Images of military and military-looking individuals threatening the use of force, and in some instances actually using it, raised crucial questions about the appropriateness of a militarized response to civil unrest.

During the protests in D.C., the military units deployed in and around the city were a mix of National Guard and active duty forces. They wore their normal camouflage uniforms. Some were armed, some were unarmed. Although the active duty units were not called into action, the deployment of a rapid response force from the Army’s 82nd Airborne Division raised serious questions about the nature of the military’s response. National Guard units from the District and several states were deployed on the streets of Washington for several days. Some were involved in the controversial clearing of Lafayette Park for the president’s photo op at a church; and low-flying National Guard helicopters were used as crowd control measures. These actions sparked widespread condemnation and led the Secretary of Defense to order a formal investigation as well as Congress to hold oversight hearings.

It is through that prism—of a militarized response to protests and harsh public criticism of that response—that we should examine the ongoing federal response to protests in Portland, Oregon. In Portland, there are no military units – active duty or National Guard – currently involved. However, there is the perception of a military response—which is understandable, as DHS and other federal agencies have deployed law enforcement officers in military-style uniforms, wielding weapons associated with combat forces abroad. Their uniforms, equipment, and tactics have created the distinct appearance of yet another armed military response to protest and elements of civil unrest. Making matters worse, DHS’s leadership has indulged in harsh—indeed, militaristic—rhetoric in explaining and justifying its aggressive response. These actions, and others, are wrong, even dangerous.

It’s easy to lose sight of the big picture given the disturbing images and videos emerging daily from Portland. But it’s critical to step back and recognize the elements that make what’s unfolding in Portland such a dangerous step for DHS and for our democracy as a whole.

First, it’s worth remembering why DHS exists in the first place. The department was formed in the aftermath of 9/11. Less than two weeks after the attacks, former Pennsylvania governor Tom Ridge was appointed as director of a new office of homeland security in the White House. (Of note, Governor Ridge and other DHS secretaries have recently criticized the DHS response in Portland.) The Homeland Security Act of 2002, passed in November of that year, created DHS by bringing 22 different federal agencies together into one department. The creation of DHS was the federal response to the finding, after the 9/11 attacks, that no single agency within the government was responsible for securing the country. DHS’s primary mission at its inception was “to prevent terrorist attacks within the United States and reduce the vulnerability of the United States to terrorism.”

While the core mission of DHS remains essentially unchanged, its roles and responsibilities have grown in response to various threats including cyber-attacks, election interference, drug smuggling and transnational criminal organizations. None of these threats appear to be present in Portland’s protests. So, at a minimum, whatever DHS is doing in Portland strays wildly from the reason DHS exists in the first place.

But it’s worse than just mission creep. DHS’s response to events in Portland represents at least seven elements that take key dangers of the militarized response to protest Americans witnessed in D.C. and attempt to launder them through the civilian apparatus of DHS. Each one is bad; taken together, they’re even worse:

1. Civil unrest in a U.S. city does not constitute a threat to the homeland and is outside the mission of the Department. DHS’s Federal Protective Service is charged with safeguarding federal property, like courthouses, but the employment of tactical units and their operations on streets increasingly far away from the federal buildings in Portland is questionable. Simply put, it’s just not clear how DHS’s mission includes whatever DHS is doing in Portland—which suggests DHS may be stretching, even overstepping, its authorities.

2. There was no request from state or local authorities for assistance. In fact, city and state leaders in Oregon have expressly said they don’t want DHS or federal forces operating as they have been in response to the protests. DHS operates in states, cities, and localities across the United States, normally in close coordination with local authorities. The aggressive DHS response in Portland is both unwanted and unwarranted, and it puts in jeopardy the cooperation with local authorities nationwide that is essential to DHS fulfilling its actual mission.

3. The wearing of military-style uniforms and equipment creates the appearance of an armed military response to civil unrest—a tactic more common to authoritarian regimes than to healthy democracies. The Secretary of Defense has expressed his concerns over this appearance, and several retired military leaders have spoken out against military involvement, or the appearance of it, in law enforcement actions against U.S. citizens whose activities constitute civil unrest, not anything close to a true homeland security threat such as rebellion or civil war.

4. The bellicose rhetoric from DHS’s senior officials has further inflamed the situation, rather than trying to defuse it. In addition, the heavy-handed federal response has worsened the situation and fomented even larger protests. It simply can’t be good for DHS or the country for DHS to be making matters in Portland worse rather than better.

5. President Trump’s rhetoric has been overtly partisan and political, focusing his ire on states and cities he labels as “Democrat” or “Radical Left.” The president’s words clearly politicize DHS’s response. DHS is a federal agency which serves all of the American people, regardless of party affiliation. To have DHS so closely tied to a partisan project tarnishes the department and risks its ability to earn public trust in the future.

6. The administration has a trust deficit and lacks credibility, so DHS’s defense of its actions are colored by mistrust. Even if DHS’s actions are within its authorities – and there remain valid questions about exceeding its authority – the Department’s words and deeds are often viewed with suspicion. That’s unhealthy for the situation in Portland; and it’s unhealthy for DHS in the myriad ways the department interacts with Americans (and others) each day across the country.

7. DHS has acting officials at senior levels throughout the organization, which calls into question decision-making that appears to be politically, rather than operationally, driven. The president has also made it clear he prefers “actings” so he can exert more control over them. Acting officials must be more concerned with pleasing the president in order to keep their jobs, and the two most senior DHS officials are seen to be behaving that way.

While Portland represents the most recent set of harmful actions by DHS, the damage to the agency’s reputation has accumulated in recent years, even before the scandal in Portland unfolded. First, President Trump’s oversized focus on the southwest border and his campaign promise of a border wall – or half of it anyway, since U.S. taxpayers are paying for the wall, not Mexico as Trump promised– took resources and focus away from DHS’s critical missions to protect the homeland. Under Trump, DHS has become the department of southwest border enforcement, not the Department of Homeland Security it was founded to be.“
Peter Brown
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by Peter Brown »

TDS is real.
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cradleandshoot
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by cradleandshoot »

holmes435 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:18 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:14 pm
holmes435 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:11 pm The Portland thing started with protesters demanding that police should be legally accountable for excessive use of force.

Like a fan and others mentioned, protests were getting smaller and smaller over time until DHS rolled into town and poured a barrel full of gasoline on a dying fire. Now the protests are 10x as big, and no meaningful changes have been made to address some simple demands from the people.

If the Portland Police Bureau had met in good faith with the protesters back in may and worked together to come up with a plan, they could have avoided that whole mess. Unfortunately they don't like to give up power and admit there may be a problem. So here we are.
:roll: There are protesters and then there are anarchists...why so difficult not to admit that?
There are protesters and there are anarchists. Happy?

But saying they're all anarchists is like saying all cops are bad. :roll:
Are anarchists that launch mortar round fireworks directly at the police bad people. Why do they have to hide among the "peaceful protesters" ? Why don't the "peaceful protesters" do something about them. If the "peaceful protesters" are willing to stand around with their thumbs stuck up their ass they are equally as guilty as the anarchists are. Enough of this BS about the vast majority of protesters are peaceful. If the vast majority ignores the small minority then they are accepting their tactics by doing nothing about them. Why don't the anarchists organize their own protest independent of the peaceful folks so they can stand up and be counted. Why??? Because they are a bunch of f***ing cowards that are like cockroaches that don't like the bright light being shined on them. It is easier to hide behind other people and use them as your human shields.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
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cradleandshoot
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by cradleandshoot »

seacoaster wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:08 pm https://www.justsecurity.org/71696/form ... democracy/

“ I believe deeply that how our government’s security forces are seen by the American public is critical to their ability to protect us and our ability to maintain a healthy democracy. That belief comes from experience: I served for decades in the U.S. Marine Corps, as a Department of Defense spokesperson, and as the Trump administration’s first Department of Homeland of Security spokesperson. It’s as an American who cares profoundly about the missions of both DOD and DHS—and believes their reputations are essential to achieving those missions—that I’ve followed the Trump administration’s heavy-handed response to protests across the country in recent months, and especially DHS’s role in that response. And I’m appalled by what I’m seeing. It’s damaging to DHS, and it’s damaging to American democracy.

Last month, the sight of U.S. military forces on the streets of our nation’s capital surprised and angered many Americans, including military and veteran communities, former diplomats, former senior national security leaders, and the general public. While federal, state, and local law enforcement officers were actively involved in the response to protests in Washington, D.C., it was the mixing of men and women in military uniforms and equipment as part of the law enforcement response that sparked particular concern for me. Images of military and military-looking individuals threatening the use of force, and in some instances actually using it, raised crucial questions about the appropriateness of a militarized response to civil unrest.

During the protests in D.C., the military units deployed in and around the city were a mix of National Guard and active duty forces. They wore their normal camouflage uniforms. Some were armed, some were unarmed. Although the active duty units were not called into action, the deployment of a rapid response force from the Army’s 82nd Airborne Division raised serious questions about the nature of the military’s response. National Guard units from the District and several states were deployed on the streets of Washington for several days. Some were involved in the controversial clearing of Lafayette Park for the president’s photo op at a church; and low-flying National Guard helicopters were used as crowd control measures. These actions sparked widespread condemnation and led the Secretary of Defense to order a formal investigation as well as Congress to hold oversight hearings.

It is through that prism—of a militarized response to protests and harsh public criticism of that response—that we should examine the ongoing federal response to protests in Portland, Oregon. In Portland, there are no military units – active duty or National Guard – currently involved. However, there is the perception of a military response—which is understandable, as DHS and other federal agencies have deployed law enforcement officers in military-style uniforms, wielding weapons associated with combat forces abroad. Their uniforms, equipment, and tactics have created the distinct appearance of yet another armed military response to protest and elements of civil unrest. Making matters worse, DHS’s leadership has indulged in harsh—indeed, militaristic—rhetoric in explaining and justifying its aggressive response. These actions, and others, are wrong, even dangerous.

It’s easy to lose sight of the big picture given the disturbing images and videos emerging daily from Portland. But it’s critical to step back and recognize the elements that make what’s unfolding in Portland such a dangerous step for DHS and for our democracy as a whole.

First, it’s worth remembering why DHS exists in the first place. The department was formed in the aftermath of 9/11. Less than two weeks after the attacks, former Pennsylvania governor Tom Ridge was appointed as director of a new office of homeland security in the White House. (Of note, Governor Ridge and other DHS secretaries have recently criticized the DHS response in Portland.) The Homeland Security Act of 2002, passed in November of that year, created DHS by bringing 22 different federal agencies together into one department. The creation of DHS was the federal response to the finding, after the 9/11 attacks, that no single agency within the government was responsible for securing the country. DHS’s primary mission at its inception was “to prevent terrorist attacks within the United States and reduce the vulnerability of the United States to terrorism.”

While the core mission of DHS remains essentially unchanged, its roles and responsibilities have grown in response to various threats including cyber-attacks, election interference, drug smuggling and transnational criminal organizations. None of these threats appear to be present in Portland’s protests. So, at a minimum, whatever DHS is doing in Portland strays wildly from the reason DHS exists in the first place.

But it’s worse than just mission creep. DHS’s response to events in Portland represents at least seven elements that take key dangers of the militarized response to protest Americans witnessed in D.C. and attempt to launder them through the civilian apparatus of DHS. Each one is bad; taken together, they’re even worse:

1. Civil unrest in a U.S. city does not constitute a threat to the homeland and is outside the mission of the Department. DHS’s Federal Protective Service is charged with safeguarding federal property, like courthouses, but the employment of tactical units and their operations on streets increasingly far away from the federal buildings in Portland is questionable. Simply put, it’s just not clear how DHS’s mission includes whatever DHS is doing in Portland—which suggests DHS may be stretching, even overstepping, its authorities.

2. There was no request from state or local authorities for assistance. In fact, city and state leaders in Oregon have expressly said they don’t want DHS or federal forces operating as they have been in response to the protests. DHS operates in states, cities, and localities across the United States, normally in close coordination with local authorities. The aggressive DHS response in Portland is both unwanted and unwarranted, and it puts in jeopardy the cooperation with local authorities nationwide that is essential to DHS fulfilling its actual mission.

3. The wearing of military-style uniforms and equipment creates the appearance of an armed military response to civil unrest—a tactic more common to authoritarian regimes than to healthy democracies. The Secretary of Defense has expressed his concerns over this appearance, and several retired military leaders have spoken out against military involvement, or the appearance of it, in law enforcement actions against U.S. citizens whose activities constitute civil unrest, not anything close to a true homeland security threat such as rebellion or civil war.

4. The bellicose rhetoric from DHS’s senior officials has further inflamed the situation, rather than trying to defuse it. In addition, the heavy-handed federal response has worsened the situation and fomented even larger protests. It simply can’t be good for DHS or the country for DHS to be making matters in Portland worse rather than better.

5. President Trump’s rhetoric has been overtly partisan and political, focusing his ire on states and cities he labels as “Democrat” or “Radical Left.” The president’s words clearly politicize DHS’s response. DHS is a federal agency which serves all of the American people, regardless of party affiliation. To have DHS so closely tied to a partisan project tarnishes the department and risks its ability to earn public trust in the future.

6. The administration has a trust deficit and lacks credibility, so DHS’s defense of its actions are colored by mistrust. Even if DHS’s actions are within its authorities – and there remain valid questions about exceeding its authority – the Department’s words and deeds are often viewed with suspicion. That’s unhealthy for the situation in Portland; and it’s unhealthy for DHS in the myriad ways the department interacts with Americans (and others) each day across the country.

7. DHS has acting officials at senior levels throughout the organization, which calls into question decision-making that appears to be politically, rather than operationally, driven. The president has also made it clear he prefers “actings” so he can exert more control over them. Acting officials must be more concerned with pleasing the president in order to keep their jobs, and the two most senior DHS officials are seen to be behaving that way.

While Portland represents the most recent set of harmful actions by DHS, the damage to the agency’s reputation has accumulated in recent years, even before the scandal in Portland unfolded. First, President Trump’s oversized focus on the southwest border and his campaign promise of a border wall – or half of it anyway, since U.S. taxpayers are paying for the wall, not Mexico as Trump promised– took resources and focus away from DHS’s critical missions to protect the homeland. Under Trump, DHS has become the department of southwest border enforcement, not the Department of Homeland Security it was founded to be.“
Is there an exception to your logic here say if the white nationalists are equally targeted if they create public unrest? Would it equally bother you if the feds came down on them like a ton of bricks? My guess is many of my FLP friends would not be bothered as much. If local law enforcement can't handle the situation, they should ask for help. My belief is that is what they should do. If local law enforcement can't control the situation after several months, somebody in charge at the local level should have a plan B. If the local yokels that run Portland don't want to get control... fine by me. In fairness then don't ask me as a taxpayer to help you rebuild when the dust finally settles.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
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old salt
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by old salt »

jhu72 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:46 pmInteresting stories, but what does it have to do with burning federal buildings or protecting them? NOT A SINGLE FEDERAL BUILDING HAS BEEN BURNED DOWN :lol:
Not for lack of trying. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/rio ... -portland/
Thanks to the Feds defending the buildings, the arson has been limited to the exterior of the 2 Fed bldgs.
So it doesn't count unless the vandals succeed & burn it to the ground ?

Seattle & Oakland police weren't so fortunate. Those torched govt bldgs don't count ?
In Seattle, in broad daylight, they burned the construction site of a juvenile detention facility & damaged cars of civilian workers in the parking lot.

Keep cheering on the anarchists.
jhu72
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Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis

Post by jhu72 »

old salt wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:03 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:46 pmInteresting stories, but what does it have to do with burning federal buildings or protecting them? NOT A SINGLE FEDERAL BUILDING HAS BEEN BURNED DOWN :lol:
Not for lack of trying. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/rio ... -portland/
Thanks to the Feds defending the buildings, the arson has been limited to the exterior of the 2 Fed bldgs.
So it doesn't count unless the vandals succeed & burn it to the ground ?

Seattle & Oakland police weren't so fortunate. Those torched govt bldgs don't count ?
In Seattle, in broad daylight, they burned the construction site of a juvenile detention facility & damaged cars of civilian workers in the parking lot.

Keep cheering on the anarchists.

The same Andy Ngo fake news video. :roll:
:lol: :lol:

Keep cheering on the facists Trumpcoc*suckers.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
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