2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[ggait]

I would take odds that neither candidate is still coherent in 4 years. So the real pick 'em is the VP candidate. Pence or.........Kamela(?)

Trump or Biden will almost certainly stay in office the full four years. So the Veep really isn't the relevant/important person.

If POTUS really loses it (like Reagan did in his second term) what's important is the WH Chief of Staff, National Security Advisor, top cabinet officials (State, Defense, Treasury), and the First Lady.

Biden's crew will be the usual standard issue - highly competent, experienced people of the type that usually fill those roles.

For Trump, it will be Javanka, Hannity, and a continued revolving door of unqualified incompetent unconfirmed "acting" sycophants. Plus the all too competent Bill Barr.

Easiest choice in the world.

[a fan]

a porcupine lit on fire, running through my house

This is not a good situation,
thing would be shooting flaming quills.

Right?

Glad we're on the same page here, DMac.

[Peter Brown]

I would take odds that neither candidate is still coherent in 4 years. So the real pick 'em is the VP candidate. Pence or.........Kamela(?)

Trump or Biden will almost certainly stay in office the full four years. So the Veep really isn't the relevant/important person.

If POTUS really loses it (like Reagan did in his second term) what's important is the WH Chief of Staff, National Security Advisor, top cabinet officials (State, Defense, Treasury), and the First Lady.

Biden's crew will be the usual standard issue - highly competent, experienced people of the type that usually fill those roles.

For Trump, it will be Javanka, Hannity, and a continued revolving door of unqualified incompetent unconfirmed "acting" sycophants. Plus the all too competent Bill Barr.

Easiest choice in the world.

The choice for normal Americans appears to be: support the party which allows mobs to burn down cities, or the party that supports taxpayers and America.

If your choice is TDS or not, then perhaps you are in a smaller minority than you care to admit.,

[CU88]

It could be a long winter...

What if Trump loses but refuses to leave office? Here's the worst case scenario.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... sibilities

[wgdsr]

wouldn't worse case be bringing in troops from russia, china and north korea?

so we could fix this by tightening up the mail in procedures in some key states? should we do that now rather than later?

[MDlaxfan76]

It could be a long winter...

What if Trump loses but refuses to leave office? Here's the worst case scenario.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... sibilities

I wonder whether the Professor is accounting for the constitutional procedure provided for in an instance when there is no certified winner of the Electoral vote, a "contingent election"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election

I'd think that would be SCOTUS' fall back if called to make a decision in which there was not agreement.

This would have the House vote for President. Senate for VP.

The House is a near sure thing.
The Senate might well have a small handful of crossover R's supporting a VP of Biden's choosing if popular vote is clear. Not the same as an impeachment, stability might well be the preferred outcome, perhaps with some moderate cabinet members from the GOP "Lincoln" sort of crew.

[MDlaxfan76]

wouldn't worse case be bringing in troops from russia, china and north korea?

so we could fix this by tightening up the mail in procedures in some key states? should we do that now rather than later?

yup, but those R legislatures don't want to change their rules...

[wgdsr]

wouldn't worse case be bringing in troops from russia, china and north korea?

so we could fix this by tightening up the mail in procedures in some key states? should we do that now rather than later?

yup, but those R legislatures don't want to change their rules...

source? pennsylvania just had what could kindly be described a bit of a mess.
covid, doing stuff on the fly... they have some tightening up to do, you'd think. maybe consider starting to count votes before tuesday.
anyone laid out where the sticking points are? espec as you say with r legislature there?

[MDlaxfan76]

wouldn't worse case be bringing in troops from russia, china and north korea?

so we could fix this by tightening up the mail in procedures in some key states? should we do that now rather than later?

yup, but those R legislatures don't want to change their rules...

source? pennsylvania just had what could kindly be described a bit of a mess.
covid, doing stuff on the fly... they have some tightening up to do, you'd think. maybe consider starting to count votes before tuesday.
anyone laid out where the sticking points are? espec as you say with r legislature there?

That article we're responding to suggested that the issue would be with states not allowing any counting until the end of that Tuesday, whereas other states more used to having large volumes begin counting much earlier as they come in...so they have their answers much, much faster.

seems like a simple enough 'fix' but that's only if you want things to go smoothly and welcome mail-in voting.

[dislaxxic]

The choice for normal Americans appears to be: support the party which allows mobs to burn down cities, or the party that supports taxpayers and America. If your choice is TDS or not, then perhaps you are in a smaller minority than you care to admit.

Yawn, another day, another sample of fringe tripe from one of our resident rightwingnut trolls...

..

[njbill]

Yes, PA’s primary was a mess last month. Wolf has commissioned a study of what went wrong and to make suggested changes. After the report comes out, there is some optimism that the legislature will agree on some changes for the fall election.

Obviously, a critical needed change is to allow mail in ballots to at least be processed before election day. Currently that can’t begin until 7 AM on election day. The large bulk of the work is opening the envelopes, checking signatures, etc. The last part - running the ballots through counting machines – goes very quickly. Under one proposal I saw, that last part would still wait until Election Day which the experts say won’t slow down the reporting of results to any appreciable degree.

Last year Pennsylvania changed their mail in voting rules. Previously, only absentee balloting was permitted. Now a voter may vote by mail for any reason. The fact that that proposal had wide bipartisan support has given many hope that changes this year will make it through the legislature.

[wgdsr]

wouldn't worse case be bringing in troops from russia, china and north korea?

so we could fix this by tightening up the mail in procedures in some key states? should we do that now rather than later?

yup, but those R legislatures don't want to change their rules...

source? pennsylvania just had what could kindly be described a bit of a mess.
covid, doing stuff on the fly... they have some tightening up to do, you'd think. maybe consider starting to count votes before tuesday.
anyone laid out where the sticking points are? espec as you say with r legislature there?

That article we're responding to suggested that the issue would be with states not allowing any counting until the end of that Tuesday, whereas other states more used to having large volumes begin counting much earlier as they come in...so they have their answers much, much faster.

seems like a simple enough 'fix' but that's only if you want things to go smoothly and welcome mail-in voting.

i read about 6-8 articles on PA and more since. there are probably hundreds and i surely don't understand the many roadblocks and hurdles to be faced.

where do you see that republicans in pennsylvania are blocking good procedures for mail in or to count early?

here's one article that talks about the process as it's evolved since election reform was started last year:
https://www.penncapital-star.com/govern ... ks-needed/

it indicates to me after an expected run at it with some problems anticipated to happen, that'd inform them on what they'll need to do in working together for this fall.

[MDlaxfan76]

wouldn't worse case be bringing in troops from russia, china and north korea?

so we could fix this by tightening up the mail in procedures in some key states? should we do that now rather than later?

yup, but those R legislatures don't want to change their rules...

source? pennsylvania just had what could kindly be described a bit of a mess.
covid, doing stuff on the fly... they have some tightening up to do, you'd think. maybe consider starting to count votes before tuesday.
anyone laid out where the sticking points are? espec as you say with r legislature there?

That article we're responding to suggested that the issue would be with states not allowing any counting until the end of that Tuesday, whereas other states more used to having large volumes begin counting much earlier as they come in...so they have their answers much, much faster.

seems like a simple enough 'fix' but that's only if you want things to go smoothly and welcome mail-in voting.

i read about 6-8 articles on PA and more since. there are probably hundreds and i surely don't understand the many roadblocks and hurdles to be faced.

where do you see that republicans in pennsylvania are blocking good procedures for mail in or to count early?

here's one article that talks about the process as it's evolved since election reform was started last year:
https://www.penncapital-star.com/govern ... ks-needed/

it indicates to me after an expected run at it with some problems anticipated to happen, that'd inform them on what they'll need to do in working together for this fall.

I wasn't being specific to PA, though the author of the article did paint a scenario in which PA doesn't get their votes counted..

Consider the following scenario: it’s 3 November, 2020, election day. By midnight, it’s clear that former Vice-President Biden enjoys a substantial lead in the national popular vote but the electoral college vote remains tight. With the races in 47 states and the District of Columbia called, Biden leads Trump in the electoral college vote 252 to 240, but neither candidate has secured the 270 votes necessary for victory. All eyes remain on Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and their 46 electoral college votes.

In each of these three states, Trump enjoys a slim lead, but the election-day returns do not include a huge number of mail-in ballots. Some states, such as Colorado, have been counting their mail-in votes from the day they arrived, but not Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. These states do not allow elections officials to begin the task of counting the mail-ins until election day itself. It will take days, even weeks, for the key swing states to finish their count. The election hangs in the balance.

[wgdsr]

wouldn't worse case be bringing in troops from russia, china and north korea?

so we could fix this by tightening up the mail in procedures in some key states? should we do that now rather than later?

yup, but those R legislatures don't want to change their rules...

source? pennsylvania just had what could kindly be described a bit of a mess.
covid, doing stuff on the fly... they have some tightening up to do, you'd think. maybe consider starting to count votes before tuesday.
anyone laid out where the sticking points are? espec as you say with r legislature there?

That article we're responding to suggested that the issue would be with states not allowing any counting until the end of that Tuesday, whereas other states more used to having large volumes begin counting much earlier as they come in...so they have their answers much, much faster.

seems like a simple enough 'fix' but that's only if you want things to go smoothly and welcome mail-in voting.

i read about 6-8 articles on PA and more since. there are probably hundreds and i surely don't understand the many roadblocks and hurdles to be faced.

where do you see that republicans in pennsylvania are blocking good procedures for mail in or to count early?

here's one article that talks about the process as it's evolved since election reform was started last year:
https://www.penncapital-star.com/govern ... ks-needed/

it indicates to me after an expected run at it with some problems anticipated to happen, that'd inform them on what they'll need to do in working together for this fall.

I wasn't being specific to PA, though the author of the article did paint a scenario in which PA doesn't get their votes counted..

Consider the following scenario: it’s 3 November, 2020, election day. By midnight, it’s clear that former Vice-President Biden enjoys a substantial lead in the national popular vote but the electoral college vote remains tight. With the races in 47 states and the District of Columbia called, Biden leads Trump in the electoral college vote 252 to 240, but neither candidate has secured the 270 votes necessary for victory. All eyes remain on Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and their 46 electoral college votes.

In each of these three states, Trump enjoys a slim lead, but the election-day returns do not include a huge number of mail-in ballots. Some states, such as Colorado, have been counting their mail-in votes from the day they arrived, but not Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. These states do not allow elections officials to begin the task of counting the mail-ins until election day itself. It will take days, even weeks, for the key swing states to finish their count. The election hangs in the balance.

right, that kicked it off. and as it's quoted above, you said the r legislatures didn't want to change their rules. i'm wondering where you got that from?

[MDlaxfan76]

wouldn't worse case be bringing in troops from russia, china and north korea?

so we could fix this by tightening up the mail in procedures in some key states? should we do that now rather than later?

yup, but those R legislatures don't want to change their rules...

source? pennsylvania just had what could kindly be described a bit of a mess.
covid, doing stuff on the fly... they have some tightening up to do, you'd think. maybe consider starting to count votes before tuesday.
anyone laid out where the sticking points are? espec as you say with r legislature there?

That article we're responding to suggested that the issue would be with states not allowing any counting until the end of that Tuesday, whereas other states more used to having large volumes begin counting much earlier as they come in...so they have their answers much, much faster.

seems like a simple enough 'fix' but that's only if you want things to go smoothly and welcome mail-in voting.

i read about 6-8 articles on PA and more since. there are probably hundreds and i surely don't understand the many roadblocks and hurdles to be faced.

where do you see that republicans in pennsylvania are blocking good procedures for mail in or to count early?

here's one article that talks about the process as it's evolved since election reform was started last year:
https://www.penncapital-star.com/govern ... ks-needed/

it indicates to me after an expected run at it with some problems anticipated to happen, that'd inform them on what they'll need to do in working together for this fall.

I wasn't being specific to PA, though the author of the article did paint a scenario in which PA doesn't get their votes counted..

Consider the following scenario: it’s 3 November, 2020, election day. By midnight, it’s clear that former Vice-President Biden enjoys a substantial lead in the national popular vote but the electoral college vote remains tight. With the races in 47 states and the District of Columbia called, Biden leads Trump in the electoral college vote 252 to 240, but neither candidate has secured the 270 votes necessary for victory. All eyes remain on Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and their 46 electoral college votes.

In each of these three states, Trump enjoys a slim lead, but the election-day returns do not include a huge number of mail-in ballots. Some states, such as Colorado, have been counting their mail-in votes from the day they arrived, but not Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. These states do not allow elections officials to begin the task of counting the mail-ins until election day itself. It will take days, even weeks, for the key swing states to finish their count. The election hangs in the balance.

right, that kicked it off. and as it's quoted above, you said the r legislatures didn't want to change their rules. i'm wondering where you got that from?

I was only really thinking of Wisconsin and Michigan, because of the various reactions last spring that were hyper-partisan, but PA does also have a Dem Governor with a GOP legislature, so the same sort of tension could be at play, especially with Trump on the warpath to prevent mail in voting and/or to cast doubts...hopefully they'll all 3 states be sane about this, but it's dependent upon those GOP legislatures agreeing.

I'm guessing you think PA's GOP will be rational and will allow work to commence on the counting before that Tuesday? Great.

I'd be a little less sanguine about the others, but fingers crossed.

[njbill]

A key problem in Pennsylvania is time. Unless specially recalled, both the House and Senate don’t return until mid September. That leaves very little time for legislation to be passed that, realistically, could impact this election, especially the early processing of ballots.

In addition to the issue of early ballot processing/counting, there are the issues of drop boxes, deadlines for requesting mail in ballots, deadlines for when those ballots must be received, etc.

Plus, I suspect there are some Republican legislators who are loyal to Trump who may try to sabotage the process. They think post election day chaos will benefit Trump so if they can prevent changes that would expedite the reporting a results, they think that will work in Trump’s favor. I suspect that those types are a minority, but all of these things could lead to delays when any delay could effectively be fatal since counties obviously need some lead time to implement any new measures.

Nevertheless, there is some optimism that something meaningful may be able to get done.

All states have their political idiosyncrasies, as does Pennsylvania. As James Carville is famous for saying, Pennsylvania is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between. Also, there is Northeast PA which is it’s own animal. Add to that the fact that if Philadelphia get something, then Pittsburgh has to as well. If Pittsburgh get something, then so does Philadelphia.

Although both the House and Senate are comfortably in Republican hands, I think there is enough bipartisan support to make improvements to the mail in ballot system. Whether the parties will be able to agree in time, however, is still up in the air.

[kramerica.inc]

It could be a long winter...

What if Trump loses but refuses to leave office? Here's the worst case scenario.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... sibilities

What if Trump wins but Democrats refuse to accept it?

[old salt]

It could be a long winter...

What if Trump loses but refuses to leave office? Here's the worst case scenario.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... sibilities

What if Trump wins but Democrats refuse to accept it?

Another 4 years of what we've been experiencing.

[MDlaxfan76]

It could be a long winter...

What if Trump loses but refuses to leave office? Here's the worst case scenario.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... sibilities

What if Trump wins but Democrats refuse to accept it?

Another 4 years of what we've been experiencing.

a good quip.

Of course, Dems then followed the Constitution...

And of course, had Trump won the popular vote and the Russians not have been involved, or heck if he and his cronies had just not lied about all those darn contacts with Russians while claiming the election was rigged against them...

Scenario we're looking at in 2020 is another popular vote large spread, likely even bigger, but a contested Electoral College with a President claiming the election is rigged before even run. Even if the Electoral College is clearly, to an unbiased eye, won by Biden, there's a concern that Trump does not accept it. Screams bloody murder, appoints a commission to prove that he won the vote, that millions of votes cast were fraudulent...oh yeah, that's what he did in 2017 even after being inaugurated!

Nah...couldn't happen.

[kramerica.inc]

The choice for normal Americans appears to be: support the party which allows mobs to burn down cities, or the party that supports taxpayers and America. If your choice is TDS or not, then perhaps you are in a smaller minority than you care to admit.

Yawn, another day, another sample of fringe tripe from one of our resident rightwingnut trolls...

..

Dis, labeling people you don't agree with as "fringe" is not very becoming. Nor accurate. Just the way Doc labels everyone he disagrees with as "racist."

If you can disprove Pete's claim, by all means, do so. This is what we're here to watch, not the name calling.