Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[Typical Lax Dad]

Okay, fellas, it's all yours. From here on out I'll ignore what the boys at the Rez tell me and listen to you guys instead.
Have a nice day.

That poll also wasn’t very scientific.

A more recent poll showed about half found the current Washington team name offensive.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/02/2 ... kins-name/

DocBarrister

That is a very good article. Dehumanization is central. It happens on a subconscious level in most instances. The overt examples are rare and unfortunately that’s the standard people use.

From the man who designed the Redskin Logo.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/sports/nf ... OwmcqCd_Vo

It’s an issue bigger than Stevens. I am not going to lose any sleep over it. The Aunt Jemima folks had no problem with their family member being portrayed as a mammy either. Issue bigger than them. Unfortunately.


From the article:

Everyone understood the name change we were all on board with that. Once they weren't going to use the logo, it was hard. It takes away from the Native Americans. When I see that logo, I take pride in it.

"If it were changed and it removed any derogatory feelings toward any person, then I think it’s a win. I don’t want that logo to be associated in a negative way, ever.”

It's an issue bigger than Stevens because the white man has made it bigger.
Stevens and the Indians can't think for themselves so the white man will do it for them.
"When I see that logo, I take pride in it." Silly him, he doesn't get it.
"If it were changed and it removed any derogatory feelings toward any person, then I think it’s a win. I don’t want that logo to be associated in a negative way, ever.” It's the white man who says it's derogatory, it's the white man who is asscociating it in a negative way, so the white man is going to fix it all for the Indians (to make themselves feel so good and righteous).

Who said that individual isn’t entitled to feel that way?

80 years ago....In the 1940s the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) created a campaign to eliminate negative stereotyping of Native American people in the media. Over time, the campaign began to focus on Indian names and mascots in sports.[4] The NCAI maintains that teams with mascots such as the Braves and the Redskins perpetuate negative stereotypes of Native American people, and demean their native traditions and rituals.[5] The NCAI issued a new report in 2013 summarizing opposition to Indian mascots and team names general, and the Washington Redskins in particular.[6] In the trademark case, the TTAB placed significance on the NCAI opposition, estimating that the organization represented about 30% of the Native American population at the time the trademarks were granted, which met their criteria for a "substantial composite" of Native Americans finding the name disparaging.[7]

Natives have bigger issues than a mascot. It doesn’t mean there is no point in the Redskins finding another name. The name has never bothered me but I can see why it’s can be problematic. Let me ask a simple question. Do you believe that there is no harm in perpetuating stereotypes?

Something closer to home:

https://www.norwichbulletin.com/news/20 ... ate=ampart

I actually knew a guy that was fired for shoving the chief up against the wall when he came into a bank and was headed up to see the chairman. He had his buck knife and a shearling coat. He looked threatening....that dude was gone.

Topic change: did you see the movie Cold Pursuit. It’s entertaining. You might like it. It was good.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

There's not one Indian whose not going to get hired because he doesn't care about the Redskins name, or because the sign on the Rez he lives on says Oneida Indian Nation. You're essentially saying the same thing I'm saying, this is being done to make the white man comfortable, not the Indian.

there it is... i agree with dmac.

snyder's sponsors applied the pressure, probably threatened to pull the plug. how many of them are native? (a sixteenth doesnt count here right!)

i know a savior complex when i see it.

[Typical Lax Dad]

There's not one Indian whose not going to get hired because he doesn't care about the Redskins name, or because the sign on the Rez he lives on says Oneida Indian Nation. You're essentially saying the same thing I'm saying, this is being done to make the white man comfortable, not the Indian.

there it is... i agree with dmac.

snyder's sponsors applied the pressure, probably threatened to pull the plug. how many of them are native? (a sixteenth doesnt count here right!)

i know a savior complex when i see it.

They won’t get hired or will be tracked because the guy hiring them won’t think much of them....that position is good enough for an Indian.

[DocBarrister]

There's not one Indian whose not going to get hired because he doesn't care about the Redskins name, or because the sign on the Rez he lives on says Oneida Indian Nation. You're essentially saying the same thing I'm saying, this is being done to make the white man comfortable, not the Indian.

there it is... i agree with dmac.

snyder's sponsors applied the pressure, probably threatened to pull the plug. how many of them are native? (a sixteenth doesnt count here right!)

i know a savior complex when i see it.

A lot of Native Americans find the Washington NFL team’s name offensive.

If you can’t even understand that, then you are disregarding the Native Americans who are offended by that racial slur.

Stop making this all about you.

As this thread has shown, the lacrosse community continues to earn its deplorable reputation on race and diversity issues.

DocBarrister

[DMac]

No Doc, it's not about me, it's about the white man, collectively, making it about himself.

From your article, TLD:

The name has never bothered me but I can see why it’s can be problematic.

Yes sir, the white man has made it problematic and according to you they damn sure better see that if they want to go to work for them.
BS. Take a trip to the Rez with me and tell me what you think when we leave.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

There's not one Indian whose not going to get hired because he doesn't care about the Redskins name, or because the sign on the Rez he lives on says Oneida Indian Nation. You're essentially saying the same thing I'm saying, this is being done to make the white man comfortable, not the Indian.

there it is... i agree with dmac.

snyder's sponsors applied the pressure, probably threatened to pull the plug. how many of them are native? (a sixteenth doesnt count here right!)

i know a savior complex when i see it.

A lot of Native Americans find the Washington NFL team’s name offensive.

If you can’t even understand that, then you are disregarding the Native Americans who are offended by that racial slur.

Stop making this all about you.

As this thread has shown, the lacrosse community continues to earn its deplorable reputation on race and diversity issues.

DocBarrister

hey doc- i agree, some think (many think) it's offensive.

but then the penn quakers gotta go too.

[Farfromgeneva]

I don’t know how I feel about it. Certainly the focus on this while companies put call centers, debt collection businesses, even broker dealers (check out Tribal Capital Markets) plus casinos on reservations would seem to be a more productive focus but this doesn’t mean it’s a positive. One wonders of the team had more success or the Rooney’s or Lamar Hunt as an owner if it would’ve been as significant a priority. It’s also a sports team, nothing sacrosanct about a name when they switch divisions, have had expansion and other things that altered the profile and appearance. Cleveland Indians would be silly to change (the name not the mascot). Braves seems fine and does Chiefs.

I think one part of the debate raises a more interesting question of what the threshold would be for it to be clear cut? Certainly not 1. 1/10? 10%. 30%.

[Farfromgeneva]

There's not one Indian whose not going to get hired because he doesn't care about the Redskins name, or because the sign on the Rez he lives on says Oneida Indian Nation. You're essentially saying the same thing I'm saying, this is being done to make the white man comfortable, not the Indian.

there it is... i agree with dmac.

snyder's sponsors applied the pressure, probably threatened to pull the plug. how many of them are native? (a sixteenth doesnt count here right!)

i know a savior complex when i see it.

A lot of Native Americans find the Washington NFL team’s name offensive.

If you can’t even understand that, then you are disregarding the Native Americans who are offended by that racial slur.

Stop making this all about you.

As this thread has shown, the lacrosse community continues to earn its deplorable reputation on race and diversity issues.

DocBarrister

hey doc- i agree, some think (many think) it's offensive.

but then the penn quakers gotta go too.

Can I still watch this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AClQyr2koxc

[DMac]

PETA will make sure the Buffalo Bills change their name too.

The AAFC Bills franchise was named after the Buffalo Bills, a popular barbershop quartet, whose name was a play on the name of the famed Wild West showman Buffalo Bill Cody.

"Buffalo" Bill Cody, who was hired to kill bison, slaughtered more than 4,000 bison in two years.

https://www.pbs.org/buffalowar/buffalo.html

[a fan]

There's not one Indian whose not going to get hired because he doesn't care about the Redskins name, or because the sign on the Rez he lives on says Oneida Indian Nation. You're essentially saying the same thing I'm saying, this is being done to make the white man comfortable, not the Indian.

there it is... i agree with dmac.

snyder's sponsors applied the pressure, probably threatened to pull the plug. how many of them are native? (a sixteenth doesnt count here right!)

i know a savior complex when i see it.

A lot of Native Americans find the Washington NFL team’s name offensive.

If you can’t even understand that, then you are disregarding the Native Americans who are offended by that racial slur.

Stop making this all about you.

As this thread has shown, the lacrosse community continues to earn its deplorable reputation on race and diversity issues.

DocBarrister

hey doc- i agree, some think (many think) it's offensive.

but then the penn quakers gotta go too.

Can I still watch this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AClQyr2koxc

I thought---no joke---it was going to be a clip of Air Gait------Gait putting one in on Kanaras and the Penn Quakers in 89.

[Farfromgeneva]

Nah, his hair isnt half as cool as Big Ern McCracken

[DMac]

Big Ern's is as cool as Trump's.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I don’t know how I feel about it. Certainly the focus on this while companies put call centers, debt collection businesses, even broker dealers (check out Tribal Capital Markets) plus casinos on reservations would seem to be a more productive focus but this doesn’t mean it’s a positive. One wonders of the team had more success or the Rooney’s or Lamar Hunt as an owner if it would’ve been as significant a priority. It’s also a sports team, nothing sacrosanct about a name when they switch divisions, have had expansion and other things that altered the profile and appearance. Cleveland Indians would be silly to change (the name not the mascot). Braves seems fine and does Chiefs.

I think one part of the debate raises a more interesting question of what the threshold would be for it to be clear cut? Certainly not 1. 1/10? 10%. 30%.

Where was the 30% quoted? Many schools have already dropped what are considered derogatory names over the past 40 years. Washington Redskins are late. As for Cleveland, the mascot is kind of silly but I don’t see the name changing. It’s not the same thing. Wouldn’t bother me if it were changed. Chiefs and Braves are fine. Like Kings/Spartans/Trojans. Nothing with any historical derogatory bias.

https://theundefeated.com/features/mone ... -its-name/

A good friend is on the board at Bank of America.... a product of The Ohio State University.

[DocBarrister]

There's not one Indian whose not going to get hired because he doesn't care about the Redskins name, or because the sign on the Rez he lives on says Oneida Indian Nation. You're essentially saying the same thing I'm saying, this is being done to make the white man comfortable, not the Indian.

there it is... i agree with dmac.

snyder's sponsors applied the pressure, probably threatened to pull the plug. how many of them are native? (a sixteenth doesnt count here right!)

i know a savior complex when i see it.

A lot of Native Americans find the Washington NFL team’s name offensive.

If you can’t even understand that, then you are disregarding the Native Americans who are offended by that racial slur.

Stop making this all about you.

As this thread has shown, the lacrosse community continues to earn its deplorable reputation on race and diversity issues.

DocBarrister

hey doc- i agree, some think (many think) it's offensive.

but then the penn quakers gotta go too.

Can I still watch this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AClQyr2koxc

The greatest cinematic achievement of post-World War II Western civilization? Of course ....

DocBarrister

[old salt]

OK lets say I'm silly enuff to want to see a Washington blah blah footballl game.

And lets say I show up at the stadium in a Washington Redskin Jersey.

Do I get in?

The Left is so exhaustingly dumb and mobbish. Does anyone REALLY care about this nickname nonsense? It wouldn't bother me in the least if the team wanted to change their names, nor would I demand they do so. I don't care if an inner-city high school wanted to call their team the Crackers. None of this is important.

Why, because "real American" Crackers don't consider that nickname offensive, just like your "real American" pals don't consider Redneck offensive?

There was a team called the Atlanta Crackers for 60yrs, also an Atlanta Black Crackers. Site of former ballpark (now a Whole Foods anchored retail shopping center!) is maybe 1-1.5mi from my house called Ponce De Leon Park.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Crackers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Black_Crackers

As a lifelong StL Cardinal fan, I followed the Cracker's box scores closely in the Sporting News in 1962-3, when they were the Redbirds top farm team. Several Cracker alums were key members of the Cards pennant winners in '64. ''67. & '68.
https://www.statscrew.com/minorbaseball ... 221/y-1962
https://www.statscrew.com/minorbaseball ... 221/y-1963
(as a '64 Phillies fan, I bet njbill recognizes some names )

[Farfromgeneva]

I don’t know how I feel about it. Certainly the focus on this while companies put call centers, debt collection businesses, even broker dealers (check out Tribal Capital Markets) plus casinos on reservations would seem to be a more productive focus but this doesn’t mean it’s a positive. One wonders of the team had more success or the Rooney’s or Lamar Hunt as an owner if it would’ve been as significant a priority. It’s also a sports team, nothing sacrosanct about a name when they switch divisions, have had expansion and other things that altered the profile and appearance. Cleveland Indians would be silly to change (the name not the mascot). Braves seems fine and does Chiefs.

I think one part of the debate raises a more interesting question of what the threshold would be for it to be clear cut? Certainly not 1. 1/10? 10%. 30%.

Where was the 30% quoted? Many schools have already dropped what are considered derogatory names over the past 40 years. Washington Redskins are late. As for Cleveland, the mascot is kind of silly but I don’t see the name changing. It’s not the same thing. Wouldn’t bother me if it were changed. Chiefs and Braves are fine. Like Kings/Spartans/Trojans. Nothing with any historical derogatory bias.

https://theundefeated.com/features/mone ... -its-name/

A good friend is on the board at Bank of America.... a product of The Ohio State University.

DMacs poll, I think Docs reply was even 1/10 is too much. That’s what had me thinking about where would a line be drawn on any topic, I.e. where does ones freedom end and another’s liberty begin which is the classic, basic debate in govt 101. Not to defend any specific situation, but there is a line somewhere, more of a reaction to what I was through Docs comments as “if even one person felt it was a problem in the entire country we have to change it” which maybe isn’t his position but would be worth debating.

I had read something recently that the Indians were not only looking to get rid of the mascot but also change the name, either WSJ or the Ringer.

My point was pro sports condones so much (“attempted murder is their job”), lives outside antitrust law, it’s wrong but we place too much stock in pro and college sports anyways. Schools are a pretty different animal, can’t turn the school off like a TV.

Still like Warriors, no Indian mascot, come out to the scene at the end of the movie and have the fans clinking something chanting “warriors, come out and plaaaaay” and I could care less about them as a long suffering Bears fan.

[DMac]

Yes, 1 in 10 is enough to get all the other races up in arms about it.

Here's what Oren and his boys have to say about it (white man know better though, speak for Indian).

2019 A new survey of Native American opinions on the Washington Redskins’ nickname once again demonstrates underwhelming opposition to the moniker and just how out of touch the so-called “mainstream media” really is. The new survey duplicates the Washington Post’s 2016 poll finding that 90 percent of Natives are not offended by the Redskins’ nickname. The word most used is “pride” much to the disappointment of writers at the Post, including Theresa Vargas, who insists the name is a dictionary-defined slur, no matter how many people accept the word. (paragraph 1)

https://naguardians.org/polling/

[Farfromgeneva]

OK lets say I'm silly enuff to want to see a Washington blah blah footballl game.

And lets say I show up at the stadium in a Washington Redskin Jersey.

Do I get in?

The Left is so exhaustingly dumb and mobbish. Does anyone REALLY care about this nickname nonsense? It wouldn't bother me in the least if the team wanted to change their names, nor would I demand they do so. I don't care if an inner-city high school wanted to call their team the Crackers. None of this is important.

Why, because "real American" Crackers don't consider that nickname offensive, just like your "real American" pals don't consider Redneck offensive?

There was a team called the Atlanta Crackers for 60yrs, also an Atlanta Black Crackers. Site of former ballpark (now a Whole Foods anchored retail shopping center!) is maybe 1-1.5mi from my house called Ponce De Leon Park.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Crackers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Black_Crackers

As a lifelong StL Cardinal fan, I followed the Cracker's box scores closely in the Sporting News in 1962-3, when they were the Redbirds top farm team. Several Cracker alums were key members of the Cards pennant winners in '64. ''67. & '68.
https://www.statscrew.com/minorbaseball ... 221/y-1962
https://www.statscrew.com/minorbaseball ... 221/y-1963
(as a '64 Phillies fan, I bet njbill recognizes some names )

That 64 Phillies team had Jim Bunning and ? Richie Ashburn was done by then.

Bob Gibson was hands down the pitcher of the 60s with respect to Koufax’s to short career. Somehow have two of his rookie cards, the 1959 Topps with the circular picture and colorful borders.

[Farfromgeneva]

Yes, 1 in 10 is enough to get all the other races up in arms about it.

Here's what Oren and his boys have to say about it (white man know better though, speak for Indian).

2019 A new survey of Native American opinions on the Washington Redskins’ nickname once again demonstrates underwhelming opposition to the moniker and just how out of touch the so-called “mainstream media” really is. The new survey duplicates the Washington Post’s 2016 poll finding that 90 percent of Natives are not offended by the Redskins’ nickname. The word most used is “pride” much to the disappointment of writers at the Post, including Theresa Vargas, who insists the name is a dictionary-defined slur, no matter how many people accept the word. (paragraph 1)

https://naguardians.org/polling/

At the end of the day Snyder is doing it for $ reasons ultimately. If his customers are demanding it, that’s what they get. Unfortunately as a class, Native Americans aren’t big consumers of super expensive football tickets, have more pressing issues like rampant alcoholism in reservations and other social problems, except Elizabeth Warren.

[Farfromgeneva]

I appreciate your focus on them. Always liked how much Hobart did with the nearby tribes. Had a Chief come in during homecoming weekend and give a discussion on the creators game and tell stories about their tribe, etc. a very under appreciated portion of our society that continues to get marginalized far outside of athletics named and mascots.