just posing a concept here- as i wasnt there- but there very well may have been a sliding scale (or at least varying degrees) of bondage. for example, i wouldnt be surprised if somewhere (let's say the north- or even the quasi north like delaware) there were workers who werent bonded but really couldnt go- where would they go, how, and get housing, work, income, food, etc. something like that. quasi-bondage maybe tantamount to actual bondage? i dunno, it's a question...jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:12 pmI was aware of Grant, he had been in the news the past month. The one that really surprised me was Van Buren, a northerner who I remembered from American History as being anti-slavery, which it turns out he was but later in his life. It is really the northerners on the list. The Virginians were no surprise at all. I am surprised people are not making a much bigger deal over Jackson. He was not just a slave owner, but a slave trader as well.ChairmanOfTheBoard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:48 pmprecisely why i use grant as an example!jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:10 amThe Presidential List of Slave HoldersChairmanOfTheBoard wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:27 pmgrant too.jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:51 pm… its pretty clear acknowledging Jefferson's flaws causes some folks to get their panties in a bunch.ChairmanOfTheBoard wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:44 pmeven facts are often in dispute these days...jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:41 pm… that gets no argument from me - FACT - he was a slaveowner.ChairmanOfTheBoard wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:32 pm forget that TJ may have been a rapist. he was a racist slaveowner. humans in bondage. forget the year. it's reprehensible.
arguments against???
we are all the same. (TJ didnt think so)
here's one in support of the above theory- ibram kendi defines antiracist: https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020 ... ntiracist/
g'head. tell ibram he's wrong.An antiracist idea is any idea that suggests the racial groups are equals in all their apparent differences—that there is nothing right or wrong with any racial group. Antiracist ideas argue that racist policies are the cause of racial inequities.
I was aware of a number of these, but some come as a surprise.
At the end of the day, I think all of this is a tempest in a teacup. You are not going to see long-term removal of a lot of these Presidential statues, and certainly not removal of the significant ones in DC. That will be a bridge too far and I suspect the BLM folks are well aware of this. It is probably good however to rub our nose in it a little - educate white society as to the real legacy and history. I am sure this is news to a lot of white American society.
correct on jackson- the founder of the modern democratic party! a different discussion perhaps.
im ok with nose rubbing. what i'm thinking is, those who ask the difficult questions of the movement, will likely reveal that the movement is somewhat arbitrary and haphazard. and when a movement is arbitrary and haphazard...