School Closings

[youthathletics]

Many on here making arguments seem only focused on who is "dying" from this disease. Its much more complicated that that. This disease ravages the body in some patients (all ages) and leaves in its wake many issues and complications that we still don't know the long tern effects of. For many even young people once they test negative, there seems to be lingering effects to the organs and nervous system that some are fighting for months after. unfortunately no simple answer and maybe not even a right one.

it's a data point. lingering complications are another. social, economic, educational and related health issues (of not being in school but rather cooped up) are others, along with dozens more. what you're saying is parallel to "i don't hear people advocating or playing devil's advocate for no school talking about the adverse effects of not being in school for students who otherwise will fall ill to any number of other problems as a result of a no school mandate".

we do a cost benefit analysis for most things that we do, consciously and unconsciously.

the complications point is unknown and guesstimated if even that. feel free to throw it out there along with all the others. what is the data on health complications? i would imagine most understand there are other potential health issues.

Well said.

[harflax]

Stanford is dropping 11 varsity sports at end of 2020-21 — men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, coed and women’s sailing, squash, men’s volleyball, wrestling and synchronized swimming.

[wgdsr]

Stanford is dropping 11 varsity sports at end of 2020-21 — men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, coed and women’s sailing, squash, men’s volleyball, wrestling and synchronized swimming.

incredible.
28 billion dollar endowment. no need to detail that many endowment dollars are earmarked. out of 28 billion dollars, i'd imagine they could negotiate some of that and find a few bucks to cover years of "losses" in the non-revenue sports.

did they announce athletic department staff (not coaches) and admin cuts to salaries and jobs concurrently with this?

[pcowlax]

I agree with wgdsr, this is amazing. They have been a perennial contender for the Director's Cup for best D1 athletics. Understanding that yes, much of the endowment is earmarked and can't be discretionarily spent and yes that at a school like Stanford this will allow them to save on scholarships while not worrying about filling those spots, but come on. The cost of all of those sports combined is pocket change and probably less than the school spends on PEDs for the football team (I kid). I wouldn't hold my breath on admin staff cuts. The bloating of bureaucracies at universities is a huge driver in skyrocketing tuition. The number of those positions only goes one way and it isn't down.

[Drcthru]

Stanford is dropping 11 varsity sports at end of 2020-21 — men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, coed and women’s sailing, squash, men’s volleyball, wrestling and synchronized swimming.

incredible.
28 billion dollar endowment. no need to detail that many endowment dollars are earmarked. out of 28 billion dollars, i'd imagine they could negotiate some of that and find a few bucks to cover years of "losses" in the non-revenue sports.

did they announce athletic department staff (not coaches) and admin cuts to salaries and jobs concurrently with this?

Some endowment funds have guidelines stating how much of each year's investment income can be spent. For many universities, this amount is approximately 5% of the endowment's total asset value.

[laxpere]

Stanford is dropping 11 varsity sports at end of 2020-21 — men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, coed and women’s sailing, squash, men’s volleyball, wrestling and synchronized swimming.

Disappointing news and incredible given the perception that the school's financial position, including the endowment, is robust. I am most surprised about men's volleyball and wrestling. As someone highlighted a few weeks ago when Brown eliminated several varsity sports, it will be easier for others to follow.

Probably kills the hope that Pac-12 schools beyond Utah would convert men's club lacrosse programs to D-I.

[pcowlax]

Stanford is dropping 11 varsity sports at end of 2020-21 — men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, coed and women’s sailing, squash, men’s volleyball, wrestling and synchronized swimming.

incredible.
28 billion dollar endowment. no need to detail that many endowment dollars are earmarked. out of 28 billion dollars, i'd imagine they could negotiate some of that and find a few bucks to cover years of "losses" in the non-revenue sports.

did they announce athletic department staff (not coaches) and admin cuts to salaries and jobs concurrently with this?

Some endowment funds have guidelines stating how much of each year's investment income can be spent. For many universities, this amount is approximately 5% of the endowment's total asset value.

5% of $28,000,000,000 is 1.4 BILLION dollars. It is likely that they have earmarks on what the investment income can be spent on as well but come on. Very detailed article here. They project a $25 million operating deficit this year and state they would need "$200 million in incremental funding in order to “permanently sustain these 11 sports at a nationally competitive varsity level.”", whatever that means. They are cutting 20 "support staff" which I assume means the coaches. They also note, "In cutting those specific sports, the university pointed to fan interest, potential savings, diversity, history of the sport at Stanford and Title IX compliance, among other factors.". So yeah, not exactly just picking them by cost.

https://sports.yahoo.com/stanford-elimi ... 00299.html

[wgdsr]

Stanford is dropping 11 varsity sports at end of 2020-21 — men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, coed and women’s sailing, squash, men’s volleyball, wrestling and synchronized swimming.

incredible.
28 billion dollar endowment. no need to detail that many endowment dollars are earmarked. out of 28 billion dollars, i'd imagine they could negotiate some of that and find a few bucks to cover years of "losses" in the non-revenue sports.

did they announce athletic department staff (not coaches) and admin cuts to salaries and jobs concurrently with this?

Some endowment funds have guidelines stating how much of each year's investment income can be spent. For many universities, this amount is approximately 5% of the endowment's total asset value.

i'm aware. that's a billion plus dollars in the case of stanford. they made the cuts based on a "10-12 million and growing" loss from the athletic department.

that's 1 percent of that. "costs" by athletic dept and sport include athletic aid. which aren't really costs, or at least not in full for various reasons (where fin aid wouldve picked up a lot of it anyway). a billion+ is also about 150,000 for every student on campus. which doesn't include that they're getting in continued donations and tuition and money from thousands of students. if the athletic department is such a drag, how is that they've accumulated 28 billion dollars, a portion of which funds a billion, per year, for the university? oh, and they'll be getting a billion or more and a larger endowment for years to come.

bottom line is, we've come to accept that universities can charge and spend money wildly. when a hiccup occurs, a reaction like this without just accepting it's one reason why they've built in this insurance policy and getting thru it... is cowardly. they serve their students, the students don't serve them. stanford, in their position, has no excuses.

i'll wait for the release on all faculty and staff taking a 10% haircut.

[Farfromgeneva]

The sailing coach who was arrested at Stanford for getting paid to let rich kids in, John Vandermoer, was a floor below me FR year at Hobart. Was NOT surprised at all he was mixed up in that but it looks like Men's sailing was somehow spared?

[laxpere]

The sailing coach who was arrested at Stanford for getting paid to let rich kids in, John Vandermoer, was a floor below me FR year at Hobart. Was NOT surprised at all he was mixed up in that but it looks like Men's sailing was somehow spared?

Interesting that you know Vandermoer. It looks like there isn't a men's sailing team, just coed and women's sailing teams. Both were axed, or rather defunded.

Not sure whether it played a role in landing the men's rowing team on the defunding list, but it seems like the rowing coach may have been close enough to Singer to trigger red flags, according to the NYT. They wrote an article about the admission scandal and highlighted that he "retired" abruptly last year.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/17/spor ... andal.html

Total program cost, which includes extensive travel for most of the defunded sports, was one part of the equation for selecting the programs, as was diversity. Given the increasing importance placed on it, my guess is that diversity played a significant role.

[palaxoff]

Not exactly lacrosse related but Stanford cut 11 programs today.

https://news.stanford.edu/2020/07/08/athletics/

This a a big player in the yearly competition for best school in sports. Hopefully not a harbinger of things to come.

[steel_hop]

On Stanford. Reading the press release reads like COVID wasn't the reason but gave them cover to do this.

Second, most of those sports are very limited in scholarships and given the sports, likely have many students paying full freight. Many of those sports are also very white so there is likely other moving parts in these decisions.

[cc2519]

At this point, there seem to be only two real options. 1. Re-open in full and deal with the consequences. 2. Close the school for a year. There is no way students are receiving real value for these half-a$$ solutions.
#nogoodoptions

fewer than 200 in the usa under 24 have died of covid.

College aged kids are prime carriers of it. If only universities had to worry about students getting sick. Throw in several hundred to several thousand employees, and college campuses could be death traps for employees. Might not exactly be the best look for colleges.

there's a lot of known things. and ways to avoid problems as much as possible.
hahvahd just said the students that are on campus will be tested every 3 days. one of the first testing announcements, but looks like there could be "robust" testing contracts.

vulnerable employees could be separated, retrained on something else, putbon paid leave, older professors just do classes virtually, TAs conduct in person classes, don't serve as much food... on and on and on.

Yes to all this. There are indeed older profs who are at risk but how many of them are routinely within 6 feet of their students? How many of them are otherwise locked in their homes if they aren’t teaching? They are more at risk in the grocery store than at the front of a large lecture hall, even if students in the room have it. Virtually every other business/profession also has older workers at higher risk and is managing to find a way to still function. Yes college kids are highly likely to closely socialize and pass it around but they are also able to be tested more frequently and comprehensively. Have everyone wear a mask. Don’t have older teachers get close to students. For the very few who teach subjects where it can’t be avoided, get TAs. Would that compromise the quality of those few classes? Quite possibly yes. So what? Everyone is having to adjust and make sacrifices. The answer is not just shutting it down. Virtually every college kid who gets it will be fine. More college students die annually of accidents and alcohol poisoning than would from COVID even if schools were all fully open. At my university hospital docs over 70 were kept home during the worst of it. They didn’t like it. The world kept spinning, admitted cases are now down >95%, they are back to work and the world goes on. Bring the students back, open the schools and just frikkin adjust as need be.

Amen.

Approximately 112,000 Americans have died from Covid, 142 of those were age 15-24, and I can only assume that many had pre-existing health issues. During that same time period 51 people age 15-24 died of Influenza. Not to mention car accidents, other accidents, other disease, suicide and on and on. People die, and it's sad, and by discussing the data no one wishes to diminish the value of the lives lost, or the suffering those people endured. But the overall risk to college students from Covid is demonstrably and incontrovertibly tiny.

Moreover, as pointed out, there are workarounds to the risks on college campuses, even in athletics, and every student and professor should have the choice to do whatever they are comfortable doing. If you don't feel comfortable playing lacrosse this season, just don't play. Sit this year out.

It is my belief that the collateral damage to our young people associated with locking them in their homes, preventing them from spending time with friends and participating in athletics, and degrading their college experience is and will be a far, far more serious threat to their well being than Covid.

Couldn't agree with this more. Ran into another parent of kids in my school. And the parent simply asked "how much more can I ask of my kids to sacrifice because these steps have real long term consequences" Vulnerable people should be protected as much as possible but everyone else should move more back to a normal setting. In my neck of the woods,70% of the people that have died were living in nursing homes. 15% more were over the age of 70. The median age of those dying in my area is 83. That is awful, no two ways about it but it shouldn't stop my kids from going to school or playing youth sports in a responsible manner.

You are SO right. This is mass insanity and hysteria. It's the first time in the history of the world where we have quarantined HEALTHY people for an extended period of time. And it WON'T WORK. This is a contagious respiratory / airborne virus. It is going to spread, until it's done, and then it is NEVER going away.

[cc2519]

Many on here making arguments seem only focused on who is "dying" from this disease. Its much more complicated that that. This disease ravages the body in some patients (all ages) and leaves in its wake many issues and complications that we still don't know the long tern effects of. For many even young people once they test negative, there seems to be lingering effects to the organs and nervous system that some are fighting for months after. unfortunately no simple answer and maybe not even a right one.

Please, with all due respect - stop. Go look at the potential "long term complications" for the seasonal flu. They are just as bad. It's this kind of desire for a risk-free life that is DESTROYING businesses, livelihoods and lives.

[youthathletics]

Many on here making arguments seem only focused on who is "dying" from this disease. Its much more complicated that that. This disease ravages the body in some patients (all ages) and leaves in its wake many issues and complications that we still don't know the long tern effects of. For many even young people once they test negative, there seems to be lingering effects to the organs and nervous system that some are fighting for months after. unfortunately no simple answer and maybe not even a right one.

Please, with all due respect - stop. Go look at the potential "long term complications" for the seasonal flu. They are just as bad. It's this kind of desire for a risk-free life that is DESTROYING businesses, livelihoods and lives.

Sciophobia

[cc2519]

Many on here making arguments seem only focused on who is "dying" from this disease. Its much more complicated that that. This disease ravages the body in some patients (all ages) and leaves in its wake many issues and complications that we still don't know the long tern effects of. For many even young people once they test negative, there seems to be lingering effects to the organs and nervous system that some are fighting for months after. unfortunately no simple answer and maybe not even a right one.

Please, with all due respect - stop. Go look at the potential "long term complications" for the seasonal flu. They are just as bad. It's this kind of desire for a risk-free life that is DESTROYING businesses, livelihoods and lives.

Sciophobia

I had to look that one up. Nice.

[Farfromgeneva]

The sailing coach who was arrested at Stanford for getting paid to let rich kids in, John Vandermoer, was a floor below me FR year at Hobart. Was NOT surprised at all he was mixed up in that but it looks like Men's sailing was somehow spared?

Interesting that you know Vandermoer. It looks like there isn't a men's sailing team, just coed and women's sailing teams. Both were axed, or rather defunded.

Not sure whether it played a role in landing the men's rowing team on the defunding list, but it seems like the rowing coach may have been close enough to Singer to trigger red flags, according to the NYT. They wrote an article about the admission scandal and highlighted that he "retired" abruptly last year.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/17/spor ... andal.html

Total program cost, which includes extensive travel for most of the defunded sports, was one part of the equation for selecting the programs, as was diversity. Given the increasing importance placed on it, my guess is that diversity played a significant role.

I don’t know Jack about sailing, had a couple of buddies in college, not John as his use began and ended at cutting up lines in his frat bedroom to give out. Assumed there was guys only but i guess it makes sense that it’s coed only.

[Drcthru]

The sailing coach who was arrested at Stanford for getting paid to let rich kids in, John Vandermoer, was a floor below me FR year at Hobart. Was NOT surprised at all he was mixed up in that but it looks like Men's sailing was somehow spared?

Interesting that you know Vandermoer. It looks like there isn't a men's sailing team, just coed and women's sailing teams. Both were axed, or rather defunded.

Not sure whether it played a role in landing the men's rowing team on the defunding list, but it seems like the rowing coach may have been close enough to Singer to trigger red flags, according to the NYT. They wrote an article about the admission scandal and highlighted that he "retired" abruptly last year.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/17/spor ... andal.html

Total program cost, which includes extensive travel for most of the defunded sports, was one part of the equation for selecting the programs, as was diversity. Given the increasing importance placed on it, my guess is that diversity played a significant role.

I don’t know Jack about sailing, had a couple of buddies in college, not John as his use began and ended at cutting up lines in his frat bedroom to give out. Assumed there was guys only but i guess it makes sense that it’s coed only.

A bit early in the day to be drinking to excess

[Farfromgeneva]

When you work from home and have had your kids home since March from early elementary school you take your shots when you can.

[Drcthru]

When you work from home and have had your kids home since March from early elementary school you take your shots when you can.

+1