School Closings

[Parputt]

engagement is different on many levels.
and satisfaction.

i have not checked any surveys, etc. (except for a survey of 2) but i would bet anything that if you do, this will be the consensus.

I think you guys are missing the point. Entirely. Its not the kids (student) getting sick they are concerned about. Its the litigation but also the SPREAD. if you are looking at the number of deaths at this age group and making a determination to return to school, you are missing the point. They can spread it between themselves all over campus ( according to your stats) it is what they carry out into those communities that is the concern. ASYMPTOMATIC SPREADING.

They are doing that anyway!!!! If they are home they are just partying with high school friends and likely having MORE interactions with older people then they would if they were on a campus by going to stores. I don't know where you live but look around you this summer. You don't have to speculate about them about carrying it into the community, they are IN the community. Only they won't have structured testing to detect asymptomatic carrying as they would at colleges. It is not possible to stop the spread of a contagious, airborne virus with quarantining and this was never the reason for the measures taken. This has been completely lost sight of in the panic that xyz will lead to spread. It is going to spread! More of those college kids will die drunk driving at home during a year off campus than they would have of COVID on campus and it will not reduce spread to vulnerable populations to keep not-exactly-mandate-minding colleges kids in the community rather than sequestered from the vast majority of the elderly while on campus.

You make a good point. Thanks!

[wgdsr]

engagement is different on many levels.
and satisfaction.

i have not checked any surveys, etc. (except for a survey of 2) but i would bet anything that if you do, this will be the consensus.

I think you guys are missing the point. Entirely. Its not the kids (student) getting sick they are concerned about. Its the litigation but also the SPREAD. if you are looking at the number of deaths at this age group and making a determination to return to school, you are missing the point. They can spread it between themselves all over campus ( according to your stats) it is what they carry out into those communities that is the concern. ASYMPTOMATIC SPREADING.

They are doing that anyway!!!! If they are home they are just partying with high school friends and likely having MORE interactions with older people then they would if they were on a campus by going to stores. I don't know where you live but look around you this summer. You don't have to speculate about them about carrying it into the community, they are IN the community. Only they won't have structured testing to detect asymptomatic carrying as they would at colleges. It is not possible to stop the spread of a contagious, airborne virus with quarantining and this was never the reason for the measures taken. This has been completely lost sight of in the panic that xyz will lead to spread. It is going to spread! More of those college kids will die drunk driving at home during a year off campus than they would have of COVID on campus and it will not reduce spread to vulnerable populations to keep not-exactly-mandate-minding colleges kids in the community rather than sequestered from the vast majority of the elderly while on campus.

the narrative has almost already gotten away from the real solutions.
schools that come back... have some cases, shut it down.
go back to your hometown, go out there.
elem, middle and high schools more "online learning". no sports, no bands, no plays and musicals, no clubs. no other extra-curriculars that drive passions and leaders and service.

[Wheels]

At this point, there seem to be only two real options. 1. Re-open in full and deal with the consequences. 2. Close the school for a year. There is no way students are receiving real value for these half-a$$ solutions.
#nogoodoptions

fewer than 200 in the usa under 24 have died of covid.

College aged kids are prime carriers of it. If only universities had to worry about students getting sick. Throw in several hundred to several thousand employees, and college campuses could be death traps for employees. Might not exactly be the best look for colleges.

there's a lot of known things. and ways to avoid problems as much as possible.
hahvahd just said the students that are on campus will be tested every 3 days. one of the first testing announcements, but looks like there could be "robust" testing contracts.

vulnerable employees could be separated, retrained on something else, putbon paid leave, older professors just do classes virtually, TAs conduct in person classes, don't serve as much food... on and on and on.

Yes to all this. There are indeed older profs who are at risk but how many of them are routinely within 6 feet of their students? How many of them are otherwise locked in their homes if they aren’t teaching? They are more at risk in the grocery store than at the front of a large lecture hall, even if students in the room have it. Virtually every other business/profession also has older workers at higher risk and is managing to find a way to still function. Yes college kids are highly likely to closely socialize and pass it around but they are also able to be tested more frequently and comprehensively. Have everyone wear a mask. Don’t have older teachers get close to students. For the very few who teach subjects where it can’t be avoided, get TAs. Would that compromise the quality of those few classes? Quite possibly yes. So what? Everyone is having to adjust and make sacrifices. The answer is not just shutting it down. Virtually every college kid who gets it will be fine. More college students die annually of accidents and alcohol poisoning than would from COVID even if schools were all fully open. At my university hospital docs over 70 were kept home during the worst of it. They didn’t like it. The world kept spinning, admitted cases are now down >95%, they are back to work and the world goes on. Bring the students back, open the schools and just frikkin adjust as need be.

Not sure this is quite the picture, but consider that most business that don't have essential employees have switched over to remote work. So those businesses are operating just like faculty members sitting at home and Zooming their classes. But what of the essential employees at a university (food, safety, facilities, etc.). You'd have to make sure those people are safe. With regards to keeping professors at greater than 6 feet, time and virus load are what matters. Unless you have amazing air circulators that change out inside air for outside air, masks aren't 100% effective at eliminating transmission. All of the models I've seen have 1% chance of transmission with both parties wearing masks and not talking for more than 15 minutes at 6 feet apart. Now multiple that time by 4 and the number of people in the room by 15. You better have some great air exchangers to keep even masked people in that environment for 50 to 75 minutes at a clip.

Speaking of HVAC systems, it really has been surprising to see the lack of HVAC solutions coming to market over the past couple of months. Hospitals, especially those ICU units, create negative pressure in rooms so that all air gets pushed to the floor. That's ideal for eliminating aerosol transmission. All I've seen are better filters.

[Wheels]

With Rutgers going online for that fall, you're going to start hearing more schools do the same. Penn State is in the queue for this.

Lots of smaller, private schools are revising their opening plans based upon the recent spikes of infections across the country. In the PA-NJ-NY area, dominos are starting to drop. Hearing lots of chatter that dorms for most will be a no-go. Most originally planned for 50% occupancy.

Hearing that Cornell appears to have settled on "if there's an infection outbreak, we'll all shelter in place here." Their thinking is that why send students back out to possibly infect many places when we can keep it contained here. Maybe other schools will adopt that based on location (rural, urban, etc.).

[wgdsr]

At this point, there seem to be only two real options. 1. Re-open in full and deal with the consequences. 2. Close the school for a year. There is no way students are receiving real value for these half-a$$ solutions.
#nogoodoptions

fewer than 200 in the usa under 24 have died of covid.

College aged kids are prime carriers of it. If only universities had to worry about students getting sick. Throw in several hundred to several thousand employees, and college campuses could be death traps for employees. Might not exactly be the best look for colleges.

there's a lot of known things. and ways to avoid problems as much as possible.
hahvahd just said the students that are on campus will be tested every 3 days. one of the first testing announcements, but looks like there could be "robust" testing contracts.

vulnerable employees could be separated, retrained on something else, putbon paid leave, older professors just do classes virtually, TAs conduct in person classes, don't serve as much food... on and on and on.

Yes to all this. There are indeed older profs who are at risk but how many of them are routinely within 6 feet of their students? How many of them are otherwise locked in their homes if they aren’t teaching? They are more at risk in the grocery store than at the front of a large lecture hall, even if students in the room have it. Virtually every other business/profession also has older workers at higher risk and is managing to find a way to still function. Yes college kids are highly likely to closely socialize and pass it around but they are also able to be tested more frequently and comprehensively. Have everyone wear a mask. Don’t have older teachers get close to students. For the very few who teach subjects where it can’t be avoided, get TAs. Would that compromise the quality of those few classes? Quite possibly yes. So what? Everyone is having to adjust and make sacrifices. The answer is not just shutting it down. Virtually every college kid who gets it will be fine. More college students die annually of accidents and alcohol poisoning than would from COVID even if schools were all fully open. At my university hospital docs over 70 were kept home during the worst of it. They didn’t like it. The world kept spinning, admitted cases are now down >95%, they are back to work and the world goes on. Bring the students back, open the schools and just frikkin adjust as need be.

Not sure this is quite the picture, but consider that most business that don't have essential employees have switched over to remote work. So those businesses are operating just like faculty members sitting at home and Zooming their classes. But what of the essential employees at a university (food, safety, facilities, etc.). You'd have to make sure those people are safe. With regards to keeping professors at greater than 6 feet, time and virus load are what matters. Unless you have amazing air circulators that change out inside air for outside air, masks aren't 100% effective at eliminating transmission. All of the models I've seen have 1% chance of transmission with both parties wearing masks and not talking for more than 15 minutes at 6 feet apart. Now multiple that time by 4 and the number of people in the room by 15. You better have some great air exchangers to keep even masked people in that environment for 50 to 75 minutes at a clip.

Speaking of HVAC systems, it really has been surprising to see the lack of HVAC solutions coming to market over the past couple of months. Hospitals, especially those ICU units, create negative pressure in rooms so that all air gets pushed to the floor. That's ideal for eliminating aerosol transmission. All I've seen are better filters.

right. or open windows. or don't have elderly professors come into the room. throw their video feed up on the blackboard. have the TAs teach in person with the video of the professor. or have the TAs teach in class and professors virtual. or get better hvac systems.
and keep university food, safety and facilities people safe with protocols. hours, distance, capacity, how deliver food, maintenance people come in overnight.
these are not impossible things. you actually have an environment where you can control a lot of these things. expect transmission. how would you handle it for these people if you expected transmission, and not merely tried only to avoid it from happening in the first place. expect any student to have it at any time.

[Drcthru]

[/quote]Speaking of HVAC systems, it really has been surprising to see the lack of HVAC solutions coming to market over the past couple of months. Hospitals, especially those ICU units, create negative pressure in rooms so that all air gets pushed to the floor. That's ideal for eliminating aerosol transmission. All I've seen are better filters.
[/quote]

Negative pressure rooms remove air from the room. The air is evacuated, not pushed to the floor.

[HooDat]

I think what the schools fear most is opening up the dorms, etc and then having to send kids back home.

With K-12, the kids already are home, so the transition back to on-line is much simpler.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Speaking of HVAC systems, it really has been surprising to see the lack of HVAC solutions coming to market over the past couple of months. Hospitals, especially those ICU units, create negative pressure in rooms so that all air gets pushed to the floor. That's ideal for eliminating aerosol transmission. All I've seen are better filters.
[/quote]

Negative pressure rooms remove air from the room. The air is evacuated, not pushed to the floor.
[/quote]

Yes. Like a giant hood.

[Parputt]

At this point, there seem to be only two real options. 1. Re-open in full and deal with the consequences. 2. Close the school for a year. There is no way students are receiving real value for these half-a$$ solutions.
#nogoodoptions

fewer than 200 in the usa under 24 have died of covid.

College aged kids are prime carriers of it. If only universities had to worry about students getting sick. Throw in several hundred to several thousand employees, and college campuses could be death traps for employees. Might not exactly be the best look for colleges.

there's a lot of known things. and ways to avoid problems as much as possible.
hahvahd just said the students that are on campus will be tested every 3 days. one of the first testing announcements, but looks like there could be "robust" testing contracts.

vulnerable employees could be separated, retrained on something else, putbon paid leave, older professors just do classes virtually, TAs conduct in person classes, don't serve as much food... on and on and on.

Yes to all this. There are indeed older profs who are at risk but how many of them are routinely within 6 feet of their students? How many of them are otherwise locked in their homes if they aren’t teaching? They are more at risk in the grocery store than at the front of a large lecture hall, even if students in the room have it. Virtually every other business/profession also has older workers at higher risk and is managing to find a way to still function. Yes college kids are highly likely to closely socialize and pass it around but they are also able to be tested more frequently and comprehensively. Have everyone wear a mask. Don’t have older teachers get close to students. For the very few who teach subjects where it can’t be avoided, get TAs. Would that compromise the quality of those few classes? Quite possibly yes. So what? Everyone is having to adjust and make sacrifices. The answer is not just shutting it down. Virtually every college kid who gets it will be fine. More college students die annually of accidents and alcohol poisoning than would from COVID even if schools were all fully open. At my university hospital docs over 70 were kept home during the worst of it. They didn’t like it. The world kept spinning, admitted cases are now down >95%, they are back to work and the world goes on. Bring the students back, open the schools and just frikkin adjust as need be.

Not sure this is quite the picture, but consider that most business that don't have essential employees have switched over to remote work. So those businesses are operating just like faculty members sitting at home and Zooming their classes. But what of the essential employees at a university (food, safety, facilities, etc.). You'd have to make sure those people are safe. With regards to keeping professors at greater than 6 feet, time and virus load are what matters. Unless you have amazing air circulators that change out inside air for outside air, masks aren't 100% effective at eliminating transmission. All of the models I've seen have 1% chance of transmission with both parties wearing masks and not talking for more than 15 minutes at 6 feet apart. Now multiple that time by 4 and the number of people in the room by 15. You better have some great air exchangers to keep even masked people in that environment for 50 to 75 minutes at a clip.

Speaking of HVAC systems, it really has been surprising to see the lack of HVAC solutions coming to market over the past couple of months. Hospitals, especially those ICU units, create negative pressure in rooms so that all air gets pushed to the floor. That's ideal for eliminating aerosol transmission. All I've seen are better filters.

right. or open windows. or don't have elderly professors come into the room. throw their video feed up on the blackboard. have the TAs teach in person with the video of the professor. or have the TAs teach in class and professors virtual. or get better hvac systems.
and keep university food, safety and facilities people safe with protocols. hours, distance, capacity, how deliver food, maintenance people come in overnight.
these are not impossible things. you actually have an environment where you can control a lot of these things. expect transmission. how would you handle it for these people if you expected transmission, and not merely tried only to avoid it from happening in the first place. expect any student to have it at any time.

Funny "elderly Professor" and "video feed and virtual classes" don't seem to mesh in the same world. Not in my experience anyway.

[wgdsr]

At this point, there seem to be only two real options. 1. Re-open in full and deal with the consequences. 2. Close the school for a year. There is no way students are receiving real value for these half-a$$ solutions.
#nogoodoptions

fewer than 200 in the usa under 24 have died of covid.

College aged kids are prime carriers of it. If only universities had to worry about students getting sick. Throw in several hundred to several thousand employees, and college campuses could be death traps for employees. Might not exactly be the best look for colleges.

there's a lot of known things. and ways to avoid problems as much as possible.
hahvahd just said the students that are on campus will be tested every 3 days. one of the first testing announcements, but looks like there could be "robust" testing contracts.

vulnerable employees could be separated, retrained on something else, putbon paid leave, older professors just do classes virtually, TAs conduct in person classes, don't serve as much food... on and on and on.

Yes to all this. There are indeed older profs who are at risk but how many of them are routinely within 6 feet of their students? How many of them are otherwise locked in their homes if they aren’t teaching? They are more at risk in the grocery store than at the front of a large lecture hall, even if students in the room have it. Virtually every other business/profession also has older workers at higher risk and is managing to find a way to still function. Yes college kids are highly likely to closely socialize and pass it around but they are also able to be tested more frequently and comprehensively. Have everyone wear a mask. Don’t have older teachers get close to students. For the very few who teach subjects where it can’t be avoided, get TAs. Would that compromise the quality of those few classes? Quite possibly yes. So what? Everyone is having to adjust and make sacrifices. The answer is not just shutting it down. Virtually every college kid who gets it will be fine. More college students die annually of accidents and alcohol poisoning than would from COVID even if schools were all fully open. At my university hospital docs over 70 were kept home during the worst of it. They didn’t like it. The world kept spinning, admitted cases are now down >95%, they are back to work and the world goes on. Bring the students back, open the schools and just frikkin adjust as need be.

Not sure this is quite the picture, but consider that most business that don't have essential employees have switched over to remote work. So those businesses are operating just like faculty members sitting at home and Zooming their classes. But what of the essential employees at a university (food, safety, facilities, etc.). You'd have to make sure those people are safe. With regards to keeping professors at greater than 6 feet, time and virus load are what matters. Unless you have amazing air circulators that change out inside air for outside air, masks aren't 100% effective at eliminating transmission. All of the models I've seen have 1% chance of transmission with both parties wearing masks and not talking for more than 15 minutes at 6 feet apart. Now multiple that time by 4 and the number of people in the room by 15. You better have some great air exchangers to keep even masked people in that environment for 50 to 75 minutes at a clip.

Speaking of HVAC systems, it really has been surprising to see the lack of HVAC solutions coming to market over the past couple of months. Hospitals, especially those ICU units, create negative pressure in rooms so that all air gets pushed to the floor. That's ideal for eliminating aerosol transmission. All I've seen are better filters.

right. or open windows. or don't have elderly professors come into the room. throw their video feed up on the blackboard. have the TAs teach in person with the video of the professor. or have the TAs teach in class and professors virtual. or get better hvac systems.
and keep university food, safety and facilities people safe with protocols. hours, distance, capacity, how deliver food, maintenance people come in overnight.
these are not impossible things. you actually have an environment where you can control a lot of these things. expect transmission. how would you handle it for these people if you expected transmission, and not merely tried only to avoid it from happening in the first place. expect any student to have it at any time.

Funny "elderly Professor" and "video feed and virtual classes" don't seem to mesh in the same world. Not in my experience anyway.

so then, no classes even virtual ones in 2020-21? cancel the school year? or just use TAs only for virtual as well? the user, if technologically impaired, probably doesn't need to set up much differently.

[Typical Lax Dad]

At this point, there seem to be only two real options. 1. Re-open in full and deal with the consequences. 2. Close the school for a year. There is no way students are receiving real value for these half-a$$ solutions.
#nogoodoptions

fewer than 200 in the usa under 24 have died of covid.

College aged kids are prime carriers of it. If only universities had to worry about students getting sick. Throw in several hundred to several thousand employees, and college campuses could be death traps for employees. Might not exactly be the best look for colleges.

there's a lot of known things. and ways to avoid problems as much as possible.
hahvahd just said the students that are on campus will be tested every 3 days. one of the first testing announcements, but looks like there could be "robust" testing contracts.

vulnerable employees could be separated, retrained on something else, putbon paid leave, older professors just do classes virtually, TAs conduct in person classes, don't serve as much food... on and on and on.

Yes to all this. There are indeed older profs who are at risk but how many of them are routinely within 6 feet of their students? How many of them are otherwise locked in their homes if they aren’t teaching? They are more at risk in the grocery store than at the front of a large lecture hall, even if students in the room have it. Virtually every other business/profession also has older workers at higher risk and is managing to find a way to still function. Yes college kids are highly likely to closely socialize and pass it around but they are also able to be tested more frequently and comprehensively. Have everyone wear a mask. Don’t have older teachers get close to students. For the very few who teach subjects where it can’t be avoided, get TAs. Would that compromise the quality of those few classes? Quite possibly yes. So what? Everyone is having to adjust and make sacrifices. The answer is not just shutting it down. Virtually every college kid who gets it will be fine. More college students die annually of accidents and alcohol poisoning than would from COVID even if schools were all fully open. At my university hospital docs over 70 were kept home during the worst of it. They didn’t like it. The world kept spinning, admitted cases are now down >95%, they are back to work and the world goes on. Bring the students back, open the schools and just frikkin adjust as need be.

Not sure this is quite the picture, but consider that most business that don't have essential employees have switched over to remote work. So those businesses are operating just like faculty members sitting at home and Zooming their classes. But what of the essential employees at a university (food, safety, facilities, etc.). You'd have to make sure those people are safe. With regards to keeping professors at greater than 6 feet, time and virus load are what matters. Unless you have amazing air circulators that change out inside air for outside air, masks aren't 100% effective at eliminating transmission. All of the models I've seen have 1% chance of transmission with both parties wearing masks and not talking for more than 15 minutes at 6 feet apart. Now multiple that time by 4 and the number of people in the room by 15. You better have some great air exchangers to keep even masked people in that environment for 50 to 75 minutes at a clip.

Speaking of HVAC systems, it really has been surprising to see the lack of HVAC solutions coming to market over the past couple of months. Hospitals, especially those ICU units, create negative pressure in rooms so that all air gets pushed to the floor. That's ideal for eliminating aerosol transmission. All I've seen are better filters.

right. or open windows. or don't have elderly professors come into the room. throw their video feed up on the blackboard. have the TAs teach in person with the video of the professor. or have the TAs teach in class and professors virtual. or get better hvac systems.
and keep university food, safety and facilities people safe with protocols. hours, distance, capacity, how deliver food, maintenance people come in overnight.
these are not impossible things. you actually have an environment where you can control a lot of these things. expect transmission. how would you handle it for these people if you expected transmission, and not merely tried only to avoid it from happening in the first place. expect any student to have it at any time.

Funny "elderly Professor" and "video feed and virtual classes" don't seem to mesh in the same world. Not in my experience anyway.

so then, no classes even virtual ones in 2020-21? cancel the school year? or just use TAs only for virtual as well? the user, if technologically impaired, probably doesn't need to set up much differently.

My wife has been told to prepare two plans. One for on campus classes and one for distancing. I believe in those areas where the virus is not running rampant, students will be back on campus with some some of combination in person and remote learning. In those areas where the virus is raging, it will be more difficult. I saw the Harvard plan. Urban centered open campus makers it harder for some. I am hoping my daughter is back on campus in the fall and that is the plan. Low case count in that state. I would have liked our chances better if everyone shut down hard. Now bars and restaurants are going to tank the whole economy..... life is rough here ...... how are we to get a long if you can't go out and eat and drink and hang out at the beach.

[Big Dog]

Speaking of HVAC systems, it really has been surprising to see the lack of HVAC solutions coming to market over the past couple of months. Hospitals, especially those ICU units, create negative pressure in rooms so that all air gets pushed to the floor. That's ideal for eliminating aerosol transmission. All I've seen are better filters.

Not practical to retro fit an office building, which would require thousands of dollars (or millions for a high rise if at all possible); heck it would cost plenty just to be able to add HEPA filters as the circulation system (fan) needs to be redone.. Negative pressure rooms are designed that way from the architect. Thoroughly sealed windows, floors and ceilings, and doors. Separate HVAC system; a dozen air flow changes every hour.

btw: don't even think about adding a HEPA filter to your home HVAC unless you have a contractor adjust the blower.

https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol/gu ... d/air.html

[Wheels]

right. or open windows. or don't have elderly professors come into the room. throw their video feed up on the blackboard. have the TAs teach in person with the video of the professor. or have the TAs teach in class and professors virtual. or get better hvac systems.
and keep university food, safety and facilities people safe with protocols. hours, distance, capacity, how deliver food, maintenance people come in overnight.
these are not impossible things. you actually have an environment where you can control a lot of these things. expect transmission. how would you handle it for these people if you expected transmission, and not merely tried only to avoid it from happening in the first place. expect any student to have it at any time.

Funny you mention opening the windows. We just received the reopening plan for my daughter's HS. If the school opened doors at opposite ends of the building, the air flow and exchange in the hallways would be awesome. Weather wouldn't be an issue...hallways could be hot or cold as long as rooms were somewhat climate controlled. Now, if we didn't have to worry about school shootings, the doors could be open like that (unless you have dedicated police at each open door).

Don't know how it'd work in classrooms, though. Perhaps opening windows between classes could work.

Good to know about how negative pressure works in ICU's.

[xxxxxxx]

Centenial Conference D3 has cancelled fall sports, with the possibility of moving some sports to the Spring. Not a good sign.

https://www.centennial.org/sports/gener ... /fall_2020

[steel_hop]

Yes to all this. There are indeed older profs who are at risk but how many of them are routinely within 6 feet of their students? How many of them are otherwise locked in their homes if they aren’t teaching? They are more at risk in the grocery store than at the front of a large lecture hall, even if students in the room have it. Virtually every other business/profession also has older workers at higher risk and is managing to find a way to still function. Yes college kids are highly likely to closely socialize and pass it around but they are also able to be tested more frequently and comprehensively. Have everyone wear a mask. Don’t have older teachers get close to students. For the very few who teach subjects where it can’t be avoided, get TAs. Would that compromise the quality of those few classes? Quite possibly yes. So what? Everyone is having to adjust and make sacrifices. The answer is not just shutting it down. Virtually every college kid who gets it will be fine. More college students die annually of accidents and alcohol poisoning than would from COVID even if schools were all fully open. At my university hospital docs over 70 were kept home during the worst of it. They didn’t like it. The world kept spinning, admitted cases are now down >95%, they are back to work and the world goes on. Bring the students back, open the schools and just frikkin adjust as need be.

There has been a huge stagnation in academia. Very few open spots for younger/new professors to step into. Maybe an older professor who can't physically teach in person any longer shouldn't be teaching? This would allow for younger professors to step into those spots that have been filled by some professors that have been around for 50+ years. I'm not saying that should be done but one of the reasons Social Security was created was to push older people out of the work place and allow for younger people to fill those spots.

[steel_hop]

At this point, there seem to be only two real options. 1. Re-open in full and deal with the consequences. 2. Close the school for a year. There is no way students are receiving real value for these half-a$$ solutions.
#nogoodoptions

fewer than 200 in the usa under 24 have died of covid.

College aged kids are prime carriers of it. If only universities had to worry about students getting sick. Throw in several hundred to several thousand employees, and college campuses could be death traps for employees. Might not exactly be the best look for colleges.

there's a lot of known things. and ways to avoid problems as much as possible.
hahvahd just said the students that are on campus will be tested every 3 days. one of the first testing announcements, but looks like there could be "robust" testing contracts.

vulnerable employees could be separated, retrained on something else, putbon paid leave, older professors just do classes virtually, TAs conduct in person classes, don't serve as much food... on and on and on.

Yes to all this. There are indeed older profs who are at risk but how many of them are routinely within 6 feet of their students? How many of them are otherwise locked in their homes if they aren’t teaching? They are more at risk in the grocery store than at the front of a large lecture hall, even if students in the room have it. Virtually every other business/profession also has older workers at higher risk and is managing to find a way to still function. Yes college kids are highly likely to closely socialize and pass it around but they are also able to be tested more frequently and comprehensively. Have everyone wear a mask. Don’t have older teachers get close to students. For the very few who teach subjects where it can’t be avoided, get TAs. Would that compromise the quality of those few classes? Quite possibly yes. So what? Everyone is having to adjust and make sacrifices. The answer is not just shutting it down. Virtually every college kid who gets it will be fine. More college students die annually of accidents and alcohol poisoning than would from COVID even if schools were all fully open. At my university hospital docs over 70 were kept home during the worst of it. They didn’t like it. The world kept spinning, admitted cases are now down >95%, they are back to work and the world goes on. Bring the students back, open the schools and just frikkin adjust as need be.

Amen.

Approximately 112,000 Americans have died from Covid, 142 of those were age 15-24, and I can only assume that many had pre-existing health issues. During that same time period 51 people age 15-24 died of Influenza. Not to mention car accidents, other accidents, other disease, suicide and on and on. People die, and it's sad, and by discussing the data no one wishes to diminish the value of the lives lost, or the suffering those people endured. But the overall risk to college students from Covid is demonstrably and incontrovertibly tiny.

Moreover, as pointed out, there are workarounds to the risks on college campuses, even in athletics, and every student and professor should have the choice to do whatever they are comfortable doing. If you don't feel comfortable playing lacrosse this season, just don't play. Sit this year out.

It is my belief that the collateral damage to our young people associated with locking them in their homes, preventing them from spending time with friends and participating in athletics, and degrading their college experience is and will be a far, far more serious threat to their well being than Covid.

Couldn't agree with this more. Ran into another parent of kids in my school. And the parent simply asked "how much more can I ask of my kids to sacrifice because these steps have real long term consequences" Vulnerable people should be protected as much as possible but everyone else should move more back to a normal setting. In my neck of the woods,70% of the people that have died were living in nursing homes. 15% more were over the age of 70. The median age of those dying in my area is 83. That is awful, no two ways about it but it shouldn't stop my kids from going to school or playing youth sports in a responsible manner.

[Dip&Dunk]

NYT over the weekend:

"A shifting patient population is probably also altering the disease’s dynamics. Coronavirus-related hospitalizations increase with age, and elderly individuals remain some of those hardest hit by the coronavirus; patients over 65 account for eight out of 10 deaths from Covid-19, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But younger people now make up a growing proportion of cases, and they are less likely to die from the disease. In Arizona, people ages 20 to 44 now account for nearly half of all cases. In Florida, which just recorded more than 10,000 new cases in a single day, the median age of residents testing positive has dropped to 35 from 65. And in Texas, more than half of those testing positive are under the age of 50."

[Parputt]

Many on here making arguments seem only focused on who is "dying" from this disease. Its much more complicated that that. This disease ravages the body in some patients (all ages) and leaves in its wake many issues and complications that we still don't know the long tern effects of. For many even young people once they test negative, there seems to be lingering effects to the organs and nervous system that some are fighting for months after. unfortunately no simple answer and maybe not even a right one.

[wgdsr]

Many on here making arguments seem only focused on who is "dying" from this disease. Its much more complicated that that. This disease ravages the body in some patients (all ages) and leaves in its wake many issues and complications that we still don't know the long tern effects of. For many even young people once they test negative, there seems to be lingering effects to the organs and nervous system that some are fighting for months after. unfortunately no simple answer and maybe not even a right one.

it's a data point. lingering complications are another. social, economic, educational and related health issues (of not being in school but rather cooped up) are others, along with dozens more. what you're saying is parallel to "i don't hear people advocating or playing devil's advocate for no school talking about the adverse effects of not being in school for students who otherwise will fall ill to any number of other problems as a result of a no school mandate".

we do a cost benefit analysis for most things that we do, consciously and unconsciously.

the complications point is unknown and guesstimated if even that. feel free to throw it out there along with all the others. what is the data on health complications? i would imagine most understand there are other potential health issues.

[Parputt]

Many on here making arguments seem only focused on who is "dying" from this disease. Its much more complicated that that. This disease ravages the body in some patients (all ages) and leaves in its wake many issues and complications that we still don't know the long tern effects of. For many even young people once they test negative, there seems to be lingering effects to the organs and nervous system that some are fighting for months after. unfortunately no simple answer and maybe not even a right one.

it's a data point. lingering complications are another. social, economic, educational and related health issues (of not being in school but rather cooped up) are others, along with dozens more. what you're saying is parallel to "i don't hear people advocating or playing devil's advocate for no school talking about the adverse effects of not being in school for students who otherwise will fall ill to any number of other problems as a result of a no school mandate".

we do a cost benefit analysis for most things that we do, consciously and unconsciously.

the complications point is unknown and guesstimated if even that. feel free to throw it out there along with all the others. what is the data on health complications? i would imagine most understand there are other potential health issues.

Respectfully, no need really to regurgitate data points, they are all out there for everyone to see (or deny). My point simply was many on here are arguing and focusing only on that the "death rate" among younger people is low. True. But, clearly there is evidence that even if you don't die, for many there seems to be serious lingering health issues that people of all ages are fighting. So when doing a "cost analysis" I hope people are also looking at the reality that its not just death that is important to "cost out." Health wise one needs to look at the entire picture of the illness not just the worst possible outcome. Personally and professionally I am not an advocate for online classes and would like all students in school. But...

Edit: Just hope we cost out more than only worst case.

HHH