2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

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Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23816
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by Farfromgeneva »

DMac wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:22 pm They're not living in MDlax's basement, are they, Ffg?
They’re lack of intellectual curiosity wouldn’t fly with him I suspect. Dumbest know it alls I’ve ever met.

Kennesaw GA actually, maybe fifteen miles from the in laws primary home in East Cobb County. (My FIL has made good money working for one mid sized electrical engineering firm since graduating Ga Tech in 1982,times everything right, bought a beach house in 99 in pawleys island and sold Dec 06, bought his private company stock $50/paycheck or more for two decades when they sold to a canadian wanna be Flour/Bechtel at a high multiple and bought back at half from a PE shop JH Whitney 7yrs later he ended up w 7% of the business which does $400-$600mm/yr in revenue, 15-18% EBITDA margins and no debt so simple and yet he’s worth low mid 8 figures these days so he can afford to pay for his idiot son, to me it’s a burden, hate the idea anyone thinks I moved to Atlanta having anything from him and makes me paranoid and working harder and take very little from them which is silly)
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
jhu72
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Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by jhu72 »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:25 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:16 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:23 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:20 pm Who created the Boomer generation? If you feel the Boomers are so bad, you should blame the Greatest Generation. The truth is, this is all horsesh!t. Every succeeding generation is on average better than the last, in my opinion. That is the way it is supposed to be. I know my kids are better human beings than me, and I know I am a better human being than my father. What's the point otherwise?
How do we explain the following generation being the first in US history to not be better off economically than any prior? Seems to be in conflict with the concept that every generation is better off.

But I guess it was explained to me by my senior so I should just shut up and take it (in the backside) I guess.
… I did not say better off. I said better human beings. I don't measure success in being a human being in dollar terms (or for that matter anything important in those terms). I can't define being a human being for you, that is for you to define.
There’s pages of posters including you pointing out the difference in decision making, opportunity and otherwise as a function of effectively resources (incl money). How’s the nest generation going to be better people when they have more pressure from this financial mess and are going to be forced to make harder decisions due to said decline in resources?

Ie we are able to be better because we can focus on “first world problems”. Energy considerations seem to ebb and flow with the cost of oil in general for example. Reduced optionality will make it harder for the next generation to become better human beings I suspect. We kind of see it with MAGA already.
You don't have to be as well off as I am to have sufficient resource. None of my children (with one possible exception) will make as much money in their lives as I have. The each have jobs they like, take joy and pride in and make sufficient money. They have meaningful relationships with other human beings, lots of them (don't mean sexual - they have meaningful friendships male and female), hobbies and interests. All three are close to each other. Two of them have entrepreneurial spirits in different areas. They are succeeding at life while at the same time improving on their father and mother as human beings, each in their own way.
Last edited by jhu72 on Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Farfromgeneva
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Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by Farfromgeneva »

I’m speaking collectively, on a macro level. The hollowing out of the middle class sort of demonstrates this. I’m sure many will be fine but overall the next generation or two are going to have harder decisions to make, on average, because of declining resources (or collective borrowing capacity, all the net worth gains from primary home real estate has been stripped out over the past 30yrs of increasing credit and leverage not to mention higher future tax burden to pay for these debts).

My sister is relatively broke, she and her husband made less than $100k combined for more than a decade in the Bay Area while raising two kids. One graduated college and the other is a rising jr, we’re lucky in that her brother in law ran Ropes Gray for a number of years and paid for them to go to a private high school called Bentley because the ones they fed into in Oakland were unmitigated disasters. They’re both good kids though I suspect they’ll never be able to live free of liabilities and the related stress. Have to be careful discussing my nephew though because his live in girlfriends mother is something like the west coast head of the FBI. I keep a low profile when I visit them.

And did you feel like you had to clarify about relationships not just being sexual because you were dealing with me? Not saying it’s wrong, just clarifying...
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
jhu72
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by jhu72 »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:47 pm I’m speaking collectively, on a macro level. The hollowing out of the middle class sort of demonstrates this. I’m sure many will be fine but overall the next generation or two are going to have harder decisions to make, on average, because of declining resources (or collective borrowing capacity, all the net worth gains from primary home real estate has been stripped out over the past 30yrs of increasing credit and leverage not to mention higher future tax burden to pay for these debts).

And did you feel like you had to clarify about relationships not just being sexual because you were dealing with me? Not saying it’s wrong, just clarifying...
I am less convinced than you that our current economic paradigm (capitalism) will remain unchanged over the next 20 or 30 years. I believe it is a drag on the human race in its current form. There is so much potential in the human race and it is currently limited by our economic system and its dependence on consumer growth and devalued human labor.

Re: your final paragraph - no, not you, I just wanted to make sure none of our jokers took it the wrong way.
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Farfromgeneva
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Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Fair enough. I’m open to ideas but we have different visions which isn’t the end of the world. Though....if we find it necessary to change paradigms what does that say about generations up to this point? Even if your vision came true are we running away from the current one or truly towards another one?

I would add though that I take the position that George Will often took opposite (uber smug and annoying, his Nobel prize in economics is a joke IMO) Paul Krugman who spent probably a decade on This Week w Brinkley/Donaldson/Steph declaring capitalism has failed to which Will, more of a pure libertarian, would promptly reply “No, this bastardized hybrid self serving and subsidy heavy form of capitalism has failed. We haven’t tried anything close to capitalism in a pure form” (which please no one, especially looking at AFan, confuse with no rules, no government spending of any kind, that’s not what he was saying, rather that we quickly strayed far from the intent and platonic ideal of democratic organized capitalism like 100yrs ago).
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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CU77
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Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by CU77 »

Yeah, democratic organized capitalism worked oh so well 100 years ago. Sure wish we could go back!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

CU77 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:43 pm Yeah, democratic organized capitalism worked oh so well 100 years ago. Sure wish we could go back!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle
All the gains made by labor are slowly being undone. The result the hollowing out of the working and lower middle calls. Where are all the nice working class neighborhoods with home ownership? There were plenty in the. 1960s / 1970s and into the 1980’s. Reagan led the charge for the war on labor. Now you can make $15.00 an hour working. But hey you can make it up in your 401k.
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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

“I wish you would!”
Farfromgeneva
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Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:09 pm
CU77 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:43 pm Yeah, democratic organized capitalism worked oh so well 100 years ago. Sure wish we could go back!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle
All the gains made by labor are slowly being undone. The result the hollowing out of the working and lower middle calls. Where are all the nice working class neighborhoods with home ownership? There were plenty in the. 1960s / 1970s and into the 1980’s. Reagan led the charge for the war on labor. Now you can make $15.00 an hour working. But hey you can make it up in your 401k.
That’s one problem, as is expansion of Fannie/Freddie/Hud. There’s a lot of reasons for it. We don’t have health care portability but have a tax code that ties it to employers through company but not individual deductibility.

I don’t think CU’s knee-jerk response is appropriate or applies to what I’m talking about. I wrote that it didn’t mean no government involvement, but that’s a far cry from running up corn prices and false hopes of Rejuvenation in Iowa and cornbelt states with the well intentioned Ethanol mandate Bush installed. Wrote a white paper on it for the parent HQ of my German bank in Frankfurt so we could get approval in 05 (which is late to the party, I was young and fresh out of bschool and asked for a $400mm allocation which he promptly asked me to reduce to $100mm) and looked at nearly 30yrs of corn price data as there’s a naked/non correlated relationship between input of corn and output of ethanol (.02) while the nat gas fired plant was almost perfectly tied to ethanol due to a $0.51 tax credit (about $0.45 went through) and corn had ranged from 1978-2005 from like $0.80/bushel to a little over $3.00/bushel. Communities in the Midwest wrote stories about how it would save them having this new plant even though I had an appendix chart showing production capacity was going to blow through the floor mandate aggregate total in around two years. Also learned that Brazil ran E85 effectively and cheap on sugar cane but we couldn’t because of tariffs on Brazilian sugar that protected Florida, Louisiana and Texas (less of the last one). That was two government interventions that created the ethanol monster which is energy net inefficient and within two years corn ran up to $7/bushel.

The first bank bailout was in 1983, Continental Illinois. Now we have way more moral hazard due to this combined with FDIC insurance. Home price appreciation has skyrocketed since the 1980s-1990s when one could start buying with very little down payment (Agency/GSE mortgage securitization, due to the implicit govt guarantee for the agencies) and since has taken all the juice out of equity growth in homes. Case in point, my father in laws first house in a nice suburb they bought in 1984 for around $90k and sold in 1993 for nearly $450k. Not quite a five bagger on actual number slightly round (like less than $3k on each side). I bought our home in a nice part of Atlanta in 2013 for $530k, $5k less than the sellers bought it for in 2008 and while it’s not being sold until my body is dragged out of here, is worth maybe low $8s (great leveraged return on my 20% down payment) in seven years but would need to go to over $2mm to be a similar growth level in the next two years (ignoring that it was effectively flat from 08-2013). Why is a home in Binghamton, even if properly maintained, at best worth 25% more than it was in the late 1980s? Job losses and frankly a property tax rate thats above 4% of assessed value due to shrinking population and fixed costs they can’t/or won’t reduce so instead sell out to SUNY Binghamton giving up more land on property tax rolls for the short term benefit of the school putting some satellite campus buildings up downtown which only increases the burden on everyone else. There’s amazing Victorians that can’t clear $250k there because they are in SALT territory well north of $10k and higher than my home in Atlanta is taxed. As I’m close to completely removed so as to have no dog in that area I don’t care that much but would like to see it regain its long gone past but with the taxes and weak infrastructure it won’t happen, will continue to shrink until it’s just a college town of 20,000-30,000 residents.

Then LTC, I have mixed opinions on the repeal of glass steagall but certainly Wall Street moving from partnership capital owned to public equity turned the bigger shops into product factory’s vs intermediaries.

I refer to him often but Talib’s book antifragile has me convinced that a large part of the problem is we are trying to let/have the govt take all risk out of our lives which creates larger fractures when they come (financial crisis was inconceivable to anyone over 40, every street expert but the level of bailout and government intervention rose dramatically in the 1980s and 1990s which can’t be ignored.

True that the conversion from defined benefit to defined contribution has hurt many, but I’ve yet to see or be sustainable. How many of the “Nifty 50” from the 1970s even exist today?

But pensions aside because again to expect them to be fully funded when lives have continued to increase, the gift hasn’t fully funded future SSI obligations it’s a present value math game, are tied to businesses that may not last long enough, it becomes a last if first f’ed game.

I tend to think home price appreciation and leverage in the housing market has been a large part of the decline of the middle class. That’s an area dominated by government when you consider over 90% of mortgages are insured, we spent what $100bn+ bailing Fan/Fred out and HUD insurance premiums has never covered the losses, why not just cut a check for down payment assistance like my father in law should do for my brother in law vs just pretending he’s working, lose money on a business so he can have a job and pay for his house and life (the house is the brother in laws, he just has a forgivable loan...)

Wrote somewhere else, unions often served many good purposes a long time ago, using baseball big difference between Marvin Miller and Donald Fehr. Political economy teaches us that all institutions (govt, church, unions) become about their own existence and dialectic power not about the original intent or cause served. Didn’t FDR argue against civil service unions? Has government bothered to ensure us against monopoly power? Every business is heading towards a oligopoly, Silicon Valley’s entire ethos is about market share to be so dominant as to crowd out competitors who now create new businesses just to exit via sale to the big boy(s) rather than to build something to last because antitrust regulators have sucked for 40yrs.

We don’t get proper oversight and regulation, we get politically attractive actions. Because the government/politicians, and even the civil servants and their merit system, rewards doing the superficial. Maybe if we had a parliamentary system or some meaningful change in government organization that altered their incentive system but as our political organization goes today I don’t see replacing a lot of market driven policies with politically motivated ones as superior. That doesn’t mean Upton Sinclair is useless, I still hold a grudge against cops because the one beat his dog to death and really love my dogs (well one is left the other passed two years ago), but the simple problems were handled a long time ago and we kept layering on more and more solely from what I can tell for the benefit of politicians and government employees to show they were “in action” regardless of the outcomes.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
6ftstick
Posts: 3194
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:19 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by 6ftstick »

jhu72 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:44 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:25 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:16 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:23 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:20 pm Who created the Boomer generation? If you feel the Boomers are so bad, you should blame the Greatest Generation. The truth is, this is all horsesh!t. Every succeeding generation is on average better than the last, in my opinion. That is the way it is supposed to be. I know my kids are better human beings than me, and I know I am a better human being than my father. What's the point otherwise?
How do we explain the following generation being the first in US history to not be better off economically than any prior? Seems to be in conflict with the concept that every generation is better off.

But I guess it was explained to me by my senior so I should just shut up and take it (in the backside) I guess.
… I did not say better off. I said better human beings. I don't measure success in being a human being in dollar terms (or for that matter anything important in those terms). I can't define being a human being for you, that is for you to define.
There’s pages of posters including you pointing out the difference in decision making, opportunity and otherwise as a function of effectively resources (incl money). How’s the nest generation going to be better people when they have more pressure from this financial mess and are going to be forced to make harder decisions due to said decline in resources?

Ie we are able to be better because we can focus on “first world problems”. Energy considerations seem to ebb and flow with the cost of oil in general for example. Reduced optionality will make it harder for the next generation to become better human beings I suspect. We kind of see it with MAGA already.
You don't have to be as well off as I am to have sufficient resource. None of my children (with one possible exception) will make as much money in their lives as I have. The each have jobs they like, take joy and pride in and make sufficient money. They have meaningful relationships with other human beings, lots of them (don't mean sexual - they have meaningful friendships male and female), hobbies and interests. All three are close to each other. Two of them have entrepreneurial spirits in different areas. They are succeeding at life while at the same time improving on their father and mother as human beings, each in their own way.
Enjoying this conversation are we? JHU boasts he's been wildly successful. So much more than his children will ever be.

Could be all the bright wealthy guys like him and Doc have sucked the system dry and want to deny that same route of success to their children and grandchildren

Why. Cause the system is evil

The people in the country are intrinsically evil

Fossil Fuels are evil.

A cheap uninterrupted flow of energy is evil.

Christianity is evil

Blah Blah Blah everythings been evil (except him) and hes been telling us that for 6 decades. Telling his kids that for 6 decades.

My children are all doing MUCH better than I and EXPECT to do even better.

I'm hoping "intellectual elites" like JHU and Doc don't really ruin the future for my grandchildren. They've already diminished the present.

H*ll a guy I respect on here wants to TAKE MY GRANDCHILDREN and inter them in reeducation camps cause it might help the clueless and lazy. Because the last 6 decades of redistribution and mismanagement has destroyed their lives and futures.

Our streets and institutions are on fire.

Thanks fellas.
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cradleandshoot
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Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by cradleandshoot »

6ftstick wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:25 am
jhu72 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:44 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:25 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:16 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:23 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:20 pm Who created the Boomer generation? If you feel the Boomers are so bad, you should blame the Greatest Generation. The truth is, this is all horsesh!t. Every succeeding generation is on average better than the last, in my opinion. That is the way it is supposed to be. I know my kids are better human beings than me, and I know I am a better human being than my father. What's the point otherwise?
How do we explain the following generation being the first in US history to not be better off economically than any prior? Seems to be in conflict with the concept that every generation is better off.

But I guess it was explained to me by my senior so I should just shut up and take it (in the backside) I guess.
… I did not say better off. I said better human beings. I don't measure success in being a human being in dollar terms (or for that matter anything important in those terms). I can't define being a human being for you, that is for you to define.
There’s pages of posters including you pointing out the difference in decision making, opportunity and otherwise as a function of effectively resources (incl money). How’s the nest generation going to be better people when they have more pressure from this financial mess and are going to be forced to make harder decisions due to said decline in resources?

Ie we are able to be better because we can focus on “first world problems”. Energy considerations seem to ebb and flow with the cost of oil in general for example. Reduced optionality will make it harder for the next generation to become better human beings I suspect. We kind of see it with MAGA already.
You don't have to be as well off as I am to have sufficient resource. None of my children (with one possible exception) will make as much money in their lives as I have. The each have jobs they like, take joy and pride in and make sufficient money. They have meaningful relationships with other human beings, lots of them (don't mean sexual - they have meaningful friendships male and female), hobbies and interests. All three are close to each other. Two of them have entrepreneurial spirits in different areas. They are succeeding at life while at the same time improving on their father and mother as human beings, each in their own way.
Enjoying this conversation are we? JHU boasts he's been wildly successful. So much more than his children will ever be.

Could be all the bright wealthy guys like him and Doc have sucked the system dry and want to deny that same route of success to their children and grandchildren

Why. Cause the system is evil

The people in the country are intrinsically evil

Fossil Fuels are evil.

A cheap uninterrupted flow of energy is evil.

Christianity is evil

Blah Blah Blah everythings been evil (except him) and hes been telling us that for 6 decades. Telling his kids that for 6 decades.

My children are all doing MUCH better than I and EXPECT to do even better.

I'm hoping "intellectual elites" like JHU and Doc don't really ruin the future for my grandchildren. They've already diminished the present.

H*ll a guy I respect on here wants to TAKE MY GRANDCHILDREN and inter them in reeducation camps cause it might help the clueless and lazy. Because the last 6 decades of redistribution and mismanagement has destroyed their lives and futures.

Our streets and institutions are on fire.

Thanks fellas.
+1 damn fine post 6 foot. I am willing to bet 72 is clueless as to what he just said. He hates the present model of capitalism even though it brought him untold wealth. It never ceases to amaze me how these self proclaimed geniouses can be so freaking stupid sometimes. :D
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
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Peter Brown
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Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by Peter Brown »

jhu72 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:44 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:25 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:16 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:23 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:20 pm Who created the Boomer generation? If you feel the Boomers are so bad, you should blame the Greatest Generation. The truth is, this is all horsesh!t. Every succeeding generation is on average better than the last, in my opinion. That is the way it is supposed to be. I know my kids are better human beings than me, and I know I am a better human being than my father. What's the point otherwise?
How do we explain the following generation being the first in US history to not be better off economically than any prior? Seems to be in conflict with the concept that every generation is better off.

But I guess it was explained to me by my senior so I should just shut up and take it (in the backside) I guess.
… I did not say better off. I said better human beings. I don't measure success in being a human being in dollar terms (or for that matter anything important in those terms). I can't define being a human being for you, that is for you to define.
There’s pages of posters including you pointing out the difference in decision making, opportunity and otherwise as a function of effectively resources (incl money). How’s the nest generation going to be better people when they have more pressure from this financial mess and are going to be forced to make harder decisions due to said decline in resources?

Ie we are able to be better because we can focus on “first world problems”. Energy considerations seem to ebb and flow with the cost of oil in general for example. Reduced optionality will make it harder for the next generation to become better human beings I suspect. We kind of see it with MAGA already.
You don't have to be as well off as I am to have sufficient resource. None of my children (with one possible exception) will make as much money in their lives as I have.The each have jobs they like, take joy and pride in and make sufficient money. They have meaningful relationships with other human beings, lots of them (don't mean sexual - they have meaningful friendships male and female), hobbies and interests. All three are close to each other. Two of them have entrepreneurial spirits in different areas. They are succeeding at life while at the same time improving on their father and mother as human beings, each in their own way.


What a revealingly douchnozzle comment, uttered by a Democrat of course.
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
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Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by Peter Brown »

Kanye is running,. and with God's good grace, will splinter the black vote from the Democrats, which seems to be his purpose.

How does it feel to less bright than Kanye?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllan ... 9046a347aa


ON DEMOCRATS
“That is a form of racism and white supremacy and white control to say that all Black people need to be Democrat and to assume that me running is me splitting the vote. All of that information is being charged up on social media platform by Democrats. And Democrats used to tell me, the same Democrats have threatened me…. The reason why this is the first day I registered to vote is because I was scared. I was told that if I voted on Trump my music career would be over. I was threatened into being in one party. I was threatened as a celebrity into being in one party. I was threatened as a Black man into the Democratic party. And that’s what the Democrats are doing, emotionally, to my people. Threatening them to the point where this white man can tell a Black man if you don’t vote for me, you’re not Black.”
seacoaster
Posts: 8866
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Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by seacoaster »

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/upsh ... e=Homepage

"Joe Biden has emerged from a contested Democratic primary with surprising party unity and without any serious threat on his left flank, according to New York Times/Siena College polls of the six battleground states likeliest to decide the presidency.

Over all, voters in the battleground states who said Bernie Sanders was their top choice for president said they backed Mr. Biden over President Trump, 87 percent to 4 percent. If there was a Bernie-or-Bust movement, it has either faded with the conclusion of the Democratic race, or it never existed in serious numbers in the battleground states.

Mr. Biden commands even more significant support from voters who supported Elizabeth Warren in the primary. The Democrats who said she was their top choice to be the Democratic nominee backed Mr. Biden over Mr. Trump by a staggering margin of 96 percent to 0 percent — even wider than Mr. Biden’s 96-1 lead among those who said he was their top choice in the Democratic primary.

No Warren supporter in the survey — which was conducted in June — allowed for the possibility that there was even “some chance” they would vote for Mr. Trump.

The unity of Democratic voters in the Times/Siena polls represents a marked change from four years ago, when a significant number of Sanders supporters never embraced Hillary Clinton’s candidacy. According to the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, she won just 74 percent of voters who backed Mr. Sanders in the 2016 primary, while 12 percent voted for Mr. Trump.

The findings, however, do not represent a change from last October, when Sanders and Warren supporters in the same six battleground states were asked whom they would vote for if the choice came down to Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump. It was 89-4 for Mr. Biden back then; it is 89-3 now.

Remarkably, the challenge Mr. Biden faces from the party’s left is difficult to distinguish from the challenge he faces from the center. Together, the supporters of Pete Buttigieg, Michael Bloomberg and Amy Klobuchar back Mr. Biden by 87-6. Of course, these voters represent a far smaller share of the Democratic electorate than the supporters of Ms. Warren and Mr. Sanders, but few would argue that Mr. Biden faces any serious challenge among moderate Democrats.

One reason Mr. Biden does not face the kind of rejection Mrs. Clinton saw is the changing composition of the Sanders vote. In 2016, Mr. Sanders won significant support from relatively conservative, white, rural voters. These voters were no socialists, and it’s an open question how many genuinely supported Mr. Sanders or merely voted in protest of Mrs. Clinton.

Either way, a share of Sanders supporters in the 2016 primary stuck with President Trump after backing him in the 2016 general election, and they did not return to Mr. Sanders in the primary four years later. Their departure from the Democratic primary electorate helps explain the significant decline in Mr. Sanders’s strength in white, rural and working-class areas, along with the relative unity of the remaining Democratic vote.

To be sure, the Democratic left is not necessarily excited to support Mr. Biden. Only 21 percent of Sanders voters and 40 percent of Warren supporters say they have a “very favorable” view of him, compared with the 77 percent of Biden backers who say they do. By 69-26, Sanders supporters say their vote is more a vote against Mr. Trump than a vote for Mr. Biden. Warren supporters also say it’s mainly a vote against the president, by a margin of 61 percent to 36 percent.

As the Biden team mulls a vice-presidential selection, one important consideration will be whether the relatively tepid level of enthusiasm he has generated poses a serious risk to his campaign. For now, opposition to Mr. Trump has largely overwhelmed whatever reservations these voters have about Mr. Biden, especially among Ms. Warren’s supporters.

Not only are Warren supporters likelier to support Mr. Biden than his supporters in the primary, but Warren voters are also likelier to say they’re “almost certain to vote” in November. They’re nearly as enthusiastic about voting as well: 75 percent of Warren supporters say they’re “very enthusiastic,” compared with 80 percent of Mr. Biden’s supporters.

The Sanders supporters show more disappointment, although at a modest level. Only 47 percent said they were “very enthusiastic,” and 64 percent said they were “almost certain to vote.” The latter tally is somewhat smaller than the 70 percent of Biden supporters and 72 percent of Warren supporters who registered the highest level of intention to vote. But it’s fairly healthy given that younger voters tended to support Mr. Sanders and are generally less likely to vote.

Even so, respondents who said they supported Mr. Biden in the general election were just as likely as President Trump’s supporters to say they were “very enthusiastic” or “almost certain to vote
.”
jhu72
Posts: 14456
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by jhu72 »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:21 am
This is a very amusing AD, but don't see it resonating with voters who might change their minds about Orange Duce. To me it looks more like a psychological warfare effort directed at Orange Duce.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
tech37
Posts: 4370
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by tech37 »

Peter Brown wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:44 am Kanye is running,. and with God's good grace, will splinter the black vote from the Democrats, which seems to be his purpose.

How does it feel to less bright than Kanye?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllan ... 9046a347aa


ON DEMOCRATS
“That is a form of racism and white supremacy and white control to say that all Black people need to be Democrat and to assume that me running is me splitting the vote. All of that information is being charged up on social media platform by Democrats. And Democrats used to tell me, the same Democrats have threatened me…. The reason why this is the first day I registered to vote is because I was scared. I was told that if I voted on Trump my music career would be over. I was threatened into being in one party. I was threatened as a celebrity into being in one party. I was threatened as a Black man into the Democratic party. And that’s what the Democrats are doing, emotionally, to my people. Threatening them to the point where this white man can tell a Black man if you don’t vote for me, you’re not Black.”
That's an impressive statement and rings true, IMO. However, he certainly has other dubious (kooky?) statements that disqualify him as a serious candidate especially to moderates, like myself, who will be so important in this election.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34080
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

jhu72 wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:07 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:21 am
This is a very amusing AD, but don't see it resonating with voters who might change their minds about Orange Duce. To me it looks more like a psychological warfare effort directed at Orange Duce.
That’s what it is. Pushing his button. He may have thrown his remote at the tv when it aired....eyes wide and hair all over his head...Sneering.....a complete mess.
“I wish you would!”
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by Peter Brown »

tech37 wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:08 am
Peter Brown wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:44 am Kanye is running,. and with God's good grace, will splinter the black vote from the Democrats, which seems to be his purpose.

How does it feel to less bright than Kanye?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllan ... 9046a347aa


ON DEMOCRATS
“That is a form of racism and white supremacy and white control to say that all Black people need to be Democrat and to assume that me running is me splitting the vote. All of that information is being charged up on social media platform by Democrats. And Democrats used to tell me, the same Democrats have threatened me…. The reason why this is the first day I registered to vote is because I was scared. I was told that if I voted on Trump my music career would be over. I was threatened into being in one party. I was threatened as a celebrity into being in one party. I was threatened as a Black man into the Democratic party. And that’s what the Democrats are doing, emotionally, to my people. Threatening them to the point where this white man can tell a Black man if you don’t vote for me, you’re not Black.”
That's an impressive statement and rings true, IMO. However, he certainly has other dubious (kooky?) statements that disqualify him as a serious candidate especially to moderates, like myself, who will be so important in this election.


I think for someone such as yourself, Biden's VP selection will be the tell, for two reasons: one, Biden ain't going 4 years, and two, are the Marxists in the oval office today for the Democratic Party, or in 4 more years?
CU88
Posts: 4431
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by CU88 »

I suspect that the o d campaign will ramp up the hate soon:

https://cookpolitical.com/analysis/nati ... ge-ratings


Amy Walter
July 8, 2020

This election is looking more like a Democratic tsunami than simply a Blue wave. President Trump, mired in some of the lowest job approval ratings of his presidency, is trailing Biden by significant margins in key battleground states like Pennsylvania (8 points), Michigan (9 points), and Wisconsin (9 points). He’s even running behind Biden in his firewall states of Florida and North Carolina.

We’ve made changes to our Electoral College ratings to reflect this reality.

Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Nebraska’s 2nd district move from Toss Up to Lean Democrat.

Maine, once in Lean Democrat, moves to the safer Likely Democratic category.

Georgia has joined Arizona, North Carolina and Florida in the Toss Up column, although, at this point, Biden would be slightly favored to win at least Arizona and Florida.

Maine’s 2nd district has moved from Likely Republican to a more competitive Lean Republican.

These moves alone push Biden over the 270 electoral vote threshold (to 279).
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am
Mr moderator, deactivate my account.
You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy.
This is cradle and shoot signing out.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
CU88
Posts: 4431
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Enough Divisiveness Already

Post by CU88 »

And when the Senate returns the r's will be pushing for another round or two of COVID checks for everyone. They need something to distract and provide cover as they go into Nov.

Plus they will ATTACK china on jobs and COVID

https://host2.advertisinganalyticsllc.c ... er/2406707

Transcript:
Corona virus has been hard on the working people of Montana. Thanks to Senator Daines, I've been fortunate enough to keep my job. Steve Daines secured critical help for Montana small businesses and workers. It was a real lifeline. Now Senator Daines is taking on China and fighting to bring manufacturing jobs back to America. Steve Daines is fighting hard to rebuild Montana's economy. Steve Daines is a businessman and a job creator. He puts Montana workers first. I'm Steve Daines, and I approve this message.
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am
Mr moderator, deactivate my account.
You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy.
This is cradle and shoot signing out.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
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