All things Chinese CoronaVirus

[jhu72]

Well bust my buttons JHU 72 should be ashamed and as Doc Barrister would put it he and those like him actually do have blood on their hands

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 365090002/

Hydroxychloroquine lowers COVID-19 death rate, Henry Ford Health study finds

Officials with the Michigan health system said the study found the drug “significantly” decreased the death rate of patients involved in the analysis.

The study analyzed 2,541 patients hospitalized among the system’s six hospitals between March 10 and May 2 and found 13% of those treated with hydroxychloroquine died while 26% of those who did not receive the drug died

“As doctors and scientists, we look to the data for insight,” said Steven Kalkanis, CEO of the Henry Ford Medical Group. “And the data here is clear that there was a benefit to using the drug as a treatment for sick, hospitalized patients.”

The study, published in the International Society of Infectious Disease.......

… saw this last night and thought of you. Knew you would bring this stupidity up.

NO ONE BELIEVES THE STUDY! It was not random - in fact it was as far away from random as you can get. It was not blind - in fact it was as far away from blind as you can get. Real researchers have already started criticizing it. You are better off drinking Clorox. Highly flaw methodology.

well...let's just say that there was some cherry picking in this analysis and we need to have an actual controlled study on a particular drug cocktail and with a particular set of patient conditions to know whether it proves out to be useful for such patient condition.

We know it's not a good prophylactic because that's been studied, and we know it's not helpful in later stage patients because that's been studied, but maybe, just maybe, there's an earlier set of conditions of symptomatic patients with certain co-morbidities or lack thereof in which this drug, with others, will be effective...

Better than Clorox.

But no "cure".

,,, the clowns were giving steroids preferentially to the Chloroquine only cohort.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Hey JHU I have my doubts this Doctors ever heard of you either

https://www.web24.news/u/2020/05/didier ... quine.html

“Early diagnosis, early isolation and early treatment with at least three days of hydroxychloroquine-Azithromycin (HCQ-AZ) results in significantly better clinical outcome and contagiousness in patients with Covid-19 than others. treatments “, ensures the study produced by Professor Raoult.

This study is based on “the clinical management of 3,737 patients, including 3,054 (81.7%) treated with HCQ-AZ for at least three days and 683 (18.3%) patients treated with other methods . ”

How is CNN gonna walk back their previous reporting with the new studies? Oh that’s right, they’ll pretend they never said anything.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/h ... index.html

Did you read (much less comprehend) the whole article or did you get exhausted after the first couple of paragraphs?

Sheesh, the idiocy of trolling.

Yeh jeez I forgot you guys only believe allegations. Actual deathss cut in half is questionable. TDS that's all this is.

So everyone back to work. We found the cure.

‘Let’s just stay shut down forever’. Or, ummmmmm, until at least November 4th anyway. You know, the sky is falling until it’s not for some reason. Hmmmmmmm.

The countries along the graph at the bottom have “re-opened”... my friend that works in Switzerland told me they are back to normal in her office but no hand shaking. France is a little further ahead but making progress. My other friend’s company should recover volume in September. SAP type company.....look at the intersection...what has happened since then?

[jhu72]

Well bust my buttons JHU 72 should be ashamed and as Doc Barrister would put it he and those like him actually do have blood on their hands

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 365090002/

Hydroxychloroquine lowers COVID-19 death rate, Henry Ford Health study finds

Officials with the Michigan health system said the study found the drug “significantly” decreased the death rate of patients involved in the analysis.

The study analyzed 2,541 patients hospitalized among the system’s six hospitals between March 10 and May 2 and found 13% of those treated with hydroxychloroquine died while 26% of those who did not receive the drug died

“As doctors and scientists, we look to the data for insight,” said Steven Kalkanis, CEO of the Henry Ford Medical Group. “And the data here is clear that there was a benefit to using the drug as a treatment for sick, hospitalized patients.”

The study, published in the International Society of Infectious Disease.......

… saw this last night and thought of you. Knew you would bring this stupidity up.

NO ONE BELIEVES THE STUDY! It was not random - in fact it was as far away from random as you can get. It was not blind - in fact it was as far away from blind as you can get. Real researchers have already started criticizing it. You are better off drinking Clorox. Highly flaw methodology.

well...let's just say that there was some cherry picking in this analysis and we need to have an actual controlled study on a particular drug cocktail and with a particular set of patient conditions to know whether it proves out to be useful for such patient condition.

We know it's not a good prophylactic because that's been studied, and we know it's not helpful in later stage patients because that's been studied, but maybe, just maybe, there's an earlier set of conditions of symptomatic patients with certain co-morbidities or lack thereof in which this drug, with others, will be effective...

Better than Clorox.

But no "cure".

So the Officials with the Michigan health system

CEO of the Henry Ford Medical Group

and the International Society of Infectious Disease.

Are all idiots

add them to your list of little Debbie Birx

and Didier Raoult and the 6500 Docors that prescribe it around the world

Your arrogance is really astounding

… Right. Tell it to the CDC, NIH and the FDA. By the way, Henry Ford is a well know BIG hospital, but it is really very average. As a research institution - they are at best a 'C' level.

[6ftstick]

Hey JHU I have my doubts this Doctors ever heard of you either

https://www.web24.news/u/2020/05/didier ... quine.html

“Early diagnosis, early isolation and early treatment with at least three days of hydroxychloroquine-Azithromycin (HCQ-AZ) results in significantly better clinical outcome and contagiousness in patients with Covid-19 than others. treatments “, ensures the study produced by Professor Raoult.

This study is based on “the clinical management of 3,737 patients, including 3,054 (81.7%) treated with HCQ-AZ for at least three days and 683 (18.3%) patients treated with other methods . ”

How is CNN gonna walk back their previous reporting with the new studies? Oh that’s right, they’ll pretend they never said anything.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/h ... index.html

Did you read (much less comprehend) the whole article or did you get exhausted after the first couple of paragraphs?

Sheesh, the idiocy of trolling.

Yeh jeez I forgot you guys only believe allegations. Actual deathss cut in half is questionable. TDS that's all this is.

So everyone back to work. We found the cure.

‘Let’s just stay shut down forever’. Or, ummmmmm, until at least November 4th anyway. You know, the sky is falling until it’s not for some reason. Hmmmmmmm.

more idiotic trolling.
No one on here wants to "stay shut down forever" or for that matter to have to shut down at all.
130k dead, huge spikes in cases, not 'going away magically in April'...

Wear the darn masks, socially distance!

Do that, and we can go to work and do some play while the docs and scientists figure out the therapies and vaccines.

Business does better, people do better, fewer die, fewer survivors with damaged lungs, hearts, kidneys...

Protests rioting and looting are ok without masks though right

[MDlaxfan76]

Well bust my buttons JHU 72 should be ashamed and as Doc Barrister would put it he and those like him actually do have blood on their hands

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 365090002/

Hydroxychloroquine lowers COVID-19 death rate, Henry Ford Health study finds

Officials with the Michigan health system said the study found the drug “significantly” decreased the death rate of patients involved in the analysis.

The study analyzed 2,541 patients hospitalized among the system’s six hospitals between March 10 and May 2 and found 13% of those treated with hydroxychloroquine died while 26% of those who did not receive the drug died

“As doctors and scientists, we look to the data for insight,” said Steven Kalkanis, CEO of the Henry Ford Medical Group. “And the data here is clear that there was a benefit to using the drug as a treatment for sick, hospitalized patients.”

The study, published in the International Society of Infectious Disease.......

… saw this last night and thought of you. Knew you would bring this stupidity up.

NO ONE BELIEVES THE STUDY! It was not random - in fact it was as far away from random as you can get. It was not blind - in fact it was as far away from blind as you can get. Real researchers have already started criticizing it. You are better off drinking Clorox. Highly flaw methodology.

well...let's just say that there was some cherry picking in this analysis and we need to have an actual controlled study on a particular drug cocktail and with a particular set of patient conditions to know whether it proves out to be useful for such patient condition.

We know it's not a good prophylactic because that's been studied, and we know it's not helpful in later stage patients because that's been studied, but maybe, just maybe, there's an earlier set of conditions of symptomatic patients with certain co-morbidities or lack thereof in which this drug, with others, will be effective...

Better than Clorox.

But no "cure".

So the Officials with the Michigan health system

CEO of the Henry Ford Medical Group

and the International Society of Infectious Disease.

Are all idiots

add them to your list of little Debbie Birx

and Didier Raoult and the 6500 Docors that prescribe it around the world

Your arrogance is really astounding

Did I call any of them idiots?

The only idiots would be those who think this means HCQ cures COVID-19.
Don't overplay it, the doctors themselves who did the analysis are not making claims without appropriate caveats.

They are simply saying that there's a good chance, based on this analysis, that HCQ helps in certain circumstances, with certain kinds of patients. Not in others.

That's not a new hypothesis, but this analysis bolsters why it makes sense to study it with a controlled, double blind study to see if some people can be helped.

Quite the opposite of calling them idiots.

[MDlaxfan76]

Hey JHU I have my doubts this Doctors ever heard of you either

https://www.web24.news/u/2020/05/didier ... quine.html

“Early diagnosis, early isolation and early treatment with at least three days of hydroxychloroquine-Azithromycin (HCQ-AZ) results in significantly better clinical outcome and contagiousness in patients with Covid-19 than others. treatments “, ensures the study produced by Professor Raoult.

This study is based on “the clinical management of 3,737 patients, including 3,054 (81.7%) treated with HCQ-AZ for at least three days and 683 (18.3%) patients treated with other methods . ”

How is CNN gonna walk back their previous reporting with the new studies? Oh that’s right, they’ll pretend they never said anything.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/h ... index.html

Did you read (much less comprehend) the whole article or did you get exhausted after the first couple of paragraphs?

Sheesh, the idiocy of trolling.

Yeh jeez I forgot you guys only believe allegations. Actual deathss cut in half is questionable. TDS that's all this is.

So everyone back to work. We found the cure.

‘Let’s just stay shut down forever’. Or, ummmmmm, until at least November 4th anyway. You know, the sky is falling until it’s not for some reason. Hmmmmmmm.

more idiotic trolling.
No one on here wants to "stay shut down forever" or for that matter to have to shut down at all.
130k dead, huge spikes in cases, not 'going away magically in April'...

Wear the darn masks, socially distance!

Do that, and we can go to work and do some play while the docs and scientists figure out the therapies and vaccines.

Business does better, people do better, fewer die, fewer survivors with damaged lungs, hearts, kidneys...

Protests rioting and looting are ok without masks though right

Nope, I've been 100% consistent that protesting without masks can and likely will cause spread.
And looting and destruction is not ok with or without a mask.

the only somewhat good news is that 80% of the protesting was done with masks most of the time. But that's not enough.

But, yeah, purposely gathering people close together, purposefully without masks, 90+% without masks...that's repugnant.

[wgdsr]

We know it's not a good prophylactic because that's been studied, ...

this is not accurate. we must all be careful not to propogate false narratives here on fanlax. it is too crucial to society to do otherwise!!

[MDlaxfan76]

We know it's not a good prophylactic because that's been studied, ...

this is not accurate. we must all be careful not to propogate false narratives here on fanlax. it is too crucial to society to do otherwise!!

uhh ohh, won't be the first time I've been wrong.

You telling me no one has bothered to do any sort of controlled study on HCQ as a prophylactic?
Or were the early analyses so overwhelming that such was tossed as actually too dangerous?

[wgdsr]

Well bust my buttons JHU 72 should be ashamed and as Doc Barrister would put it he and those like him actually do have blood on their hands

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 365090002/

Hydroxychloroquine lowers COVID-19 death rate, Henry Ford Health study finds

Officials with the Michigan health system said the study found the drug “significantly” decreased the death rate of patients involved in the analysis.

The study analyzed 2,541 patients hospitalized among the system’s six hospitals between March 10 and May 2 and found 13% of those treated with hydroxychloroquine died while 26% of those who did not receive the drug died

“As doctors and scientists, we look to the data for insight,” said Steven Kalkanis, CEO of the Henry Ford Medical Group. “And the data here is clear that there was a benefit to using the drug as a treatment for sick, hospitalized patients.”

The study, published in the International Society of Infectious Disease.......

… saw this last night and thought of you. Knew you would bring this stupidity up.

NO ONE BELIEVES THE STUDY! It was not random - in fact it was as far away from random as you can get. It was not blind - in fact it was as far away from blind as you can get. Real researchers have already started criticizing it. You are better off drinking Clorox. Highly flaw methodology.



By the way, these clowns were also giving the so called Chloroquine Only cohort steroids at the same time - preferentially to that cohort. There are so many problems with this study.

where is the study? am too lazy.

[wgdsr]

We know it's not a good prophylactic because that's been studied, ...

this is not accurate. we must all be careful not to propogate false narratives here on fanlax. it is too crucial to society to do otherwise!!

uhh ohh, won't be the first time I've been wrong.

You telling me no one has bothered to do any sort of controlled study on HCQ as a prophylactic?
Or were the early analyses so overwhelming that such was tossed as actually too dangerous?

c'mon md. you threw it out there.
check into it if you must.

and if you're buying into the too dangerous narrative, for prophylaxis (pre-exposure particularly), for a trial no less... i don't know what to tell you. wait for news as it comes out.

[DocBarrister]

56,000+ new cases yesterday.

Hospitalizations rising dangerously all over the South and West.

Too many idiots refusing to wear masks, starting with Donald Trump.

Still not enough testing.

The economy is shutting down again in certain states, including Texas.

Everyone:

—Stay home.

—Wear masks.

—Socially distance.

—Wash your hands.

—Bathe. (speaking to you, Peter Brown)

—Stop being idiots (applicable only to some here ... you know who you are).

DocBarrister

[njbill]

To me, the fact that the Detroit study used steroids means any meaningful reliance on HCQ is baseless.

The use of steroids was buried in the article. That’s the fault of the newspaper, not necessarily those who conducted the study. But as others have noted up thread, until you do a controlled, double blind study on each combination of the various therapies, you aren’t helping move the science forward.

I suspect these doctors in this hospital system were simply trying to save lives and improve patient outcomes. They were not conducting a study per se. Note that the study began in March, back when there was some reasonable question about whether HCQ might work.

While it probably is accurate to say that HCQ has not conclusively been proven by the medical community to not work, it has largely, if not almost entirely, been kicked to the curb because other therapies seem to be more promising and less dangerous.

In terms of what is said or not said on this forum, I certainly hope no one is taking medical advice from a bunch of lacrosse fans. We are simply discussing the issues and expressing opinions.

[jhu72]

Well bust my buttons JHU 72 should be ashamed and as Doc Barrister would put it he and those like him actually do have blood on their hands

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 365090002/

Hydroxychloroquine lowers COVID-19 death rate, Henry Ford Health study finds

Officials with the Michigan health system said the study found the drug “significantly” decreased the death rate of patients involved in the analysis.

The study analyzed 2,541 patients hospitalized among the system’s six hospitals between March 10 and May 2 and found 13% of those treated with hydroxychloroquine died while 26% of those who did not receive the drug died

“As doctors and scientists, we look to the data for insight,” said Steven Kalkanis, CEO of the Henry Ford Medical Group. “And the data here is clear that there was a benefit to using the drug as a treatment for sick, hospitalized patients.”

The study, published in the International Society of Infectious Disease.......

… saw this last night and thought of you. Knew you would bring this stupidity up.

NO ONE BELIEVES THE STUDY! It was not random - in fact it was as far away from random as you can get. It was not blind - in fact it was as far away from blind as you can get. Real researchers have already started criticizing it. You are better off drinking Clorox. Highly flaw methodology.



By the way, these clowns were also giving the so called Chloroquine Only cohort steroids at the same time - preferentially to that cohort. There are so many problems with this study.

where is the study? am too lazy.

… saw this late last night in an article from a reputable news source. Didn't read the study, what I know comes from the description in the article. They listed the infectious disease journal it appeared in, but I didn't go looking for it, too late. Was surprised it could get published with the flaws in methodology. Authors must have claimed it was a preliminary survey or some such "lesser" research. No one is taking this as a serious "study". What I found most interesting was the news that the Chloroquine cohort was on steroids. Which one was not mentioned. If I get a chance I will go back and see if I can find the article and the reference.

[MDlaxfan76]

We know it's not a good prophylactic because that's been studied, ...

this is not accurate. we must all be careful not to propogate false narratives here on fanlax. it is too crucial to society to do otherwise!!

uhh ohh, won't be the first time I've been wrong.

You telling me no one has bothered to do any sort of controlled study on HCQ as a prophylactic?
Or were the early analyses so overwhelming that such was tossed as actually too dangerous?

c'mon md. you threw it out there.
check into it if you must.

and if you're buying into the too dangerous narrative, for prophylaxis (pre-exposure particularly), for a trial no less... i don't know what to tell you. wait for news as it comes out.

So, you don't know if such a study was done?
I'm not buying into any of the narratives, wildly positive or wildly negative, I was just under the impression that the prophylactic claims were dumped based on actual study, not just wild, largely anecdotal claims. Am I mistaken?...again wouldn't be the first nor the last time!

[jhu72]

To me, the fact that the Detroit study used steroids means any meaningful reliance on HCQ is baseless.

The use of steroids was buried in the article. That’s the fault of the newspaper, not necessarily those who conducted the study. But as others have noted up thread, until you do a controlled, double blind study on each combination of the various therapies, you aren’t helping move the science forward.

I suspect these doctors in this hospital system were simply trying to save lives and improve patient outcomes. They were not conducting a study per se. Note that the study began in March, back when there was some reasonable question about whether HCQ might work.


While it probably is accurate to say that HCQ has not conclusively been proven by the medical community to not work, it has largely, if not almost entirely, been kicked to the curb because other therapies seem to be more promising and less dangerous.

In terms of what is said or not said on this forum, I certainly hope no one is taking medical advice from a bunch of lacrosse fans. We are simply discussing the issues and expressing opinions.

… this is a very reasonable guess. The "research" was also done with varying "best practices" at the time. There really seemed to be no control over anything -- way too many variables.

[MDlaxfan76]

We know it's not a good prophylactic because that's been studied, ...

this is not accurate. we must all be careful not to propogate false narratives here on fanlax. it is too crucial to society to do otherwise!!

uhh ohh, won't be the first time I've been wrong.

You telling me no one has bothered to do any sort of controlled study on HCQ as a prophylactic?
Or were the early analyses so overwhelming that such was tossed as actually too dangerous?

c'mon md. you threw it out there.
check into it if you must.

and if you're buying into the too dangerous narrative, for prophylaxis (pre-exposure particularly), for a trial no less... i don't know what to tell you. wait for news as it comes out.

So, you don't know if such a study was done?
I'm not buying into any of the narratives, wildly positive or wildly negative, I was just under the impression that the prophylactic claims were dumped based on actual study, not just wild, largely anecdotal claims. Am I mistaken?...again wouldn't be the first nor the last time!

used Google. New England Journal of Medicine, randomized, double blind, controlled study post exposure prophylactic...no benefit over placebo.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638

Does that mean my recollection was correct?

Here's a solid article. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06 ... t-covid-19

[wgdsr]

We know it's not a good prophylactic because that's been studied, ...

this is not accurate. we must all be careful not to propogate false narratives here on fanlax. it is too crucial to society to do otherwise!!

uhh ohh, won't be the first time I've been wrong.

You telling me no one has bothered to do any sort of controlled study on HCQ as a prophylactic?
Or were the early analyses so overwhelming that such was tossed as actually too dangerous?

c'mon md. you threw it out there.
check into it if you must.

and if you're buying into the too dangerous narrative, for prophylaxis (pre-exposure particularly), for a trial no less... i don't know what to tell you. wait for news as it comes out.

So, you don't know if such a study was done?
I'm not buying into any of the narratives, wildly positive or wildly negative, I was just under the impression that the prophylactic claims were dumped based on actual study, not just wild, largely anecdotal claims. Am I mistaken?...again wouldn't be the first nor the last time!

yes. in this case, you're mistaken.

[wgdsr]

We know it's not a good prophylactic because that's been studied, ...

this is not accurate. we must all be careful not to propogate false narratives here on fanlax. it is too crucial to society to do otherwise!!

uhh ohh, won't be the first time I've been wrong.

You telling me no one has bothered to do any sort of controlled study on HCQ as a prophylactic?
Or were the early analyses so overwhelming that such was tossed as actually too dangerous?

c'mon md. you threw it out there.
check into it if you must.

and if you're buying into the too dangerous narrative, for prophylaxis (pre-exposure particularly), for a trial no less... i don't know what to tell you. wait for news as it comes out.

So, you don't know if such a study was done?
I'm not buying into any of the narratives, wildly positive or wildly negative, I was just under the impression that the prophylactic claims were dumped based on actual study, not just wild, largely anecdotal claims. Am I mistaken?...again wouldn't be the first nor the last time!

used Google. New England Journal of Medicine, randomized, double blind, controlled study post exposure prophylactic...no benefit over placebo.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638

Does that mean my recollection was correct?

Here's a solid article. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06 ... t-covid-19

ok. so what does your "prophylactic" study tell you it tells us about its use and what does it not prevent under what circumstances? according to the study.

[jhu72]

… another country doesn't want American visitors. Great Britain has announced we are on the their red list. MAGA

[njbill]

The way things are going, Mexico may decide to pay for the wall. To keep us out.