How many schools will drop lacrosse?

[notentitled]

My parents were members of the greatest generation and always said the good- old days were not so good, and we must move forward. I understand your post about their sacrifice. However, I am sure the greatest generation would not want to see people suffer economically any more than necessary. More people die from not receiving health care due to lack of funds (poverty) than most disease. They do not seek care because they cannot afford care.

With that thought, one must remember our society has created industries/communities based on sports. Lacrosse may not be one of them, but other sports are a driver of the income income in certain areas. Certain Universities and their programs have become the lifeblood and an economic juggernaut. For example, Central Pennsylvania, and Pennsylvania as a whole feeds off the PSU football and I am sure phenomenons like that exist in other quarters of the United States.

Your point brings into specific relief an imbalance of how sport is an economic engine that may not be the best, but also we must think about the broader part of society as well. I am not saying you are wrong about what the greatest generation meant to our country, but I am not sure that our decisions and approach to the pandemic can be tilted to much towards them- our youth, kids in college, etc are the future of society. It is a brutal question.

[bauer4429]

I do not have much knowledge of Hobart and they certainly seem to have a strong program, but I do know of one team, in a league I won’t mention, that looked the other way if it was a starter.

[Farfromgeneva]

It's changing like everywhere but if you are looking for the heart and passion in lacrosse at an institution Hobart is a great spot. Raymond has cleaned up a lot, very disciplined, sometimes a little too hard on the edge though I think he's learning how to approach each individual kid better now than his early years. Some of these kids had been accepted to HYP and still came, the late 80s and early 90s got a bit out of control re lacrosse ending with an atrocious situation involving a prominent club coach in the mid atlantic named Cabbell Maddux, who never grew up and still berates and writes hideous letters to 13yr old kids and their parents long after the kid had left his program. Kerwick let it rip after Hanna bounced BJ OHara and had some success including NLL #1 pick (or MLL I don't pay attention to pro lacrosse and can't keep them straight) Daryl Veltman and a 2008 ECAC COY before he got bounced over the D3 debacle that was overturned thisfast then succeeded by a nice guy and good recruiter but weak Xs and Os guy in TW Johnson and Raymond has been rebuilding the program since 2014. In 2015 he suspended like 8 kids right before the Bryant NEC semis game for off field issues which was quite a statement. Won the NEC on a surprising run in 2016 on strong Faceoff and Goalie play and low scoring, blew it badly in 2017 against Bryant in a final where I couldn't believe we still couldnt bust a zone after four years of this junk and having destroyed Bryant a month earlier in the reg season, had a predictable lousy 2018 with a ton of 1 goal losses then a pretty nice 11-5 2019 though disappointing giving up 5-6 goal 4th quarter leads to RoMo in the Reg season finale and again in the NEC finals. This year should've been the one, have a terrific recruiting class supposed to be showing up, but we will see if we can keep momentum with this pandemic cutting things short. The school is going to get blasted financially this year either way, looking at an 8 figure operating loss for 20-21 definitely as it stands. Things will get cut, but lacrosse is so ingrained it'll be there like the musicians playing as the titanic sank if that is it's fate. I sure hope not though.

[FMUBart]

Always enjoy your post FarFrom, and the coaching carousel comments were spot on, IMHO..

[AOD]

The NJAC is losing two schools already with Wesley failing and TCNJ cancelling so that knocks Rowan off our schedule.

Why is that? Why does TCNJ's cancellation impact your Rowan game?

[Farfromgeneva]

Wesley is not official yet but are clearly failing and it’s been an issue for a while. With two NJAC schools done for the season now and I’m expecting Montclair to follow suit very soon there’s no point in having a conference to play in how is there going to be a loooong trip for D3 football OOC game? Losing two schools will mean the school can’t get an AQ bid to the playoffs so they’d be playing just for fun at that point like the NESCAC. So speculating, but I also understand that LL is having an all hands on deck call tomorrow and expecting the league to fold up tent in the next few weeks. Probably the reason coach dewall is pimping the UA FB year to parents proactively right now to get some cheddar before they’re told they won’t have a season. Rochester is almost definitely going to follow RPI and with RPI I figure Union will be done. There is zero point in losing a few hundred grand to play a 3-5 game season so each domino that falls at the D3 level will chip away at the motivation for the rest to take any risk whatsoever.

[richlax5]

We also have to remember that most Div 3 schools do not generate revenue on the games played which is the same for most, not all, Spring Sports. While money is made on tuition dollars most programs operate on a loss untill NCAA distributes funds from NCAA Football and Basketball Championships which generate the most revenue. I believe you will see most Div 3 sports be cancelled or severely shortened and most mid-major and lower conferences running conference schedules only limiting travel to a geographic region. It may be the only possibly way to get some sort of Fall and Winter seasons. Dare I ask what happens to Spring sports if Fall spots are "postponed" to the spring?

[laxpert]

What program is going to have the funds to fly to Utah?

[cuseman4133]

Dare I ask what happens to Spring sports if Fall spots are "postponed" to the spring?

No holds barred fight for any practice time on fields where available. Maybe lacrosse might have to play more weeknight games now?

[cuseman4133]

With July 1 here, feel like we might be getting some news soon.

[ABV 8.3%]

I do not have much knowledge of Hobart and they certainly seem to have a strong program, but I do know of one team, in a league I won’t mention, that looked the other way if it was a starter.

yup...I played in that league. It used to be called "Everyone League", today.....it IS called "all of them"

[JBFortunato]

Dare I ask what happens to Spring sports if Fall spots are "postponed" to the spring?

No holds barred fight for any practice time on fields where available. Maybe lacrosse might have to play more weeknight games now?

Sold, I'll take it. Anything for a lacrosse season.

[viper]

My parents were members of the greatest generation and always said the good- old days were not so good, and we must move forward. I understand your post about their sacrifice. However, I am sure the greatest generation would not want to see people suffer economically any more than necessary. More people die from not receiving health care due to lack of funds (poverty) than most disease. They do not seek care because they cannot afford care.

With that thought, one must remember our society has created industries/communities based on sports. Lacrosse may not be one of them, but other sports are a driver of the income income in certain areas. Certain Universities and their programs have become the lifeblood and an economic juggernaut. For example, Central Pennsylvania, and Pennsylvania as a whole feeds off the PSU football and I am sure phenomenons like that exist in other quarters of the United States.

Your point brings into specific relief an imbalance of how sport is an economic engine that may not be the best, but also we must think about the broader part of society as well. I am not saying you are wrong about what the greatest generation meant to our country, but I am not sure that our decisions and approach to the pandemic can be tilted to much towards them- our youth, kids in college, etc are the future of society. It is a brutal question.

You raise some issues that are much bigger than the current discussion and have been highlighted by the current pandemic with regard to poverty and health care in the country. My only point is that while I am empathetic to not "tilting" the scale toward one group, we should neither "tilt" it away from them either.

There is a middle ground (aka the subject of this debate) that is more sympathetic and considers everyone and I understand that. It's the all or nothing approaches that are thrown around with ease without consideration beyond an individual's desires that make me jump in where I prefer not too.

[AreaLax]

Division III UMass Dartmouth announced they're cutting eight sports, including men's lacrosse.

[Farfromgeneva]

Interesting as they had to absorb Mt Ida who failed 2-3yrs ago. Wonder if that could be a consequence of consolidation. Also a D3 matter, but I've heard there could be some meaningful consolidation of the SUNY system. The four university centers aren't in it, other than to absorb some smaller schools, but have heard everyone from Morrisville, Geneseo, Brockport, Cortland, Buffalo, Fredonia, Plattsburg, Potsdam and whoever else I'm not listing is at risk of being folded into others. SUNY Binghamton was once a private college called Harper (and has one of the great Dicks Picks albums for any Dead fans out there). Also have heard in D2 there's a lot of talk of consolidation in PA, particularly a conference called the PSAC.

[cuseman4133]

With all the recent CFB news, Rick Pitino with a good take on CBB. Start the season in January, only conference games. https://twitter.com/RealPitino/status/1 ... 3365527553

Wonder what that means if we do have spring football and then also spring lacrosse.

[bearlaxfan]

IF there is spring football and IF there's spring lax, and IF fans are allowed, play the games before the football games a là THE Ohio State Univ spring game. I HATE football lines, and 9am tailgates are meh, but it would be a nice chance to grow the game.
Lot of IFs, I know.

[Farfromgeneva]

Dare I ask what happens to Spring sports if Fall spots are "postponed" to the spring?

No holds barred fight for any practice time on fields where available. Maybe lacrosse might have to play more weeknight games now?

Sold, I'll take it. Anything for a lacrosse season.

Might it look something like this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ipsPgNEmAXI

[pcowlax]

A great scene in cinematic history. No commercials, no mercy!

[Wheels]

Interesting as they had to absorb Mt Ida who failed 2-3yrs ago. Wonder if that could be a consequence of consolidation. Also a D3 matter, but I've heard there could be some meaningful consolidation of the SUNY system. The four university centers aren't in it, other than to absorb some smaller schools, but have heard everyone from Morrisville, Geneseo, Brockport, Cortland, Buffalo, Fredonia, Plattsburg, Potsdam and whoever else I'm not listing is at risk of being folded into others. SUNY Binghamton was once a private college called Harper (and has one of the great Dicks Picks albums for any Dead fans out there). Also have heard in D2 there's a lot of talk of consolidation in PA, particularly a conference called the PSAC.

The PSAC conference (home to all of the PASSHE "state" schools in PA) is in trouble. Cheyney U (the oldest HBCU in the nation) has maybe 500 students on campus, but neither the state nor the middle states accrediting agency wants to make the call to kill an HBCU. Cheyney dropped a couple of sports last year. It will eventually merge with West Chester, which is maybe 6 miles away.

Then you have schools like Mansfield, Lock Haven, Clarion, and Edinboro that have seen declining enrollment as the communities in those parts of the state have seen population and economic collapses for over 20 years.

East Stroudsburg, Bloomsburg, and Kutztown have tried to band together to share services as a means to offset costs associated with declining tuition revenue. Slippery Rock, Indiana U of PA, California U of PA, and Shippensburg are also struggling. Millersville has done better at drawing from PHL and Baltimore. West Chester is the only institution in the system that is growing and financially stable (location, location, location).

The new chancellor of the system says he has a plan to save the system, but enrollment trends don't look good at all. None of the schools do a good job at recruiting out of state students. Their only saving grace? A bad economy. West Chester doubled in size between 2008 and now (8K to 17K). The 2008 recession gave a lot of students a reason to stay home and pay $9K per year in tuition. It might happen again with the COVID Recession.

None of the PASSHE schools offer men's lacrosse (a few do on the women's side). The state politics around the PASSHE system are about as bonkers as you'd expect.