Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[MDlaxfan76]

White Antifa terrorists shoot and murder two underage black males in Seattle’s CHOP.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... oting.html

How is this not the lead story on every network right now?

That’s right, the media does anything to bend over backwards for Democrats.

Had the shooters been police, the media and certain Fanlax Democrats couldn’t shut up.

I saw this on CNN.

However, nowhere in the article you posted is the shooter or shooters described as "White Antifa terrorists" or remotely close to such. Instead, it sounds like the boys may have been stealing a car? Not even clear who started the shooting, much less the race of the participants other than the boys.

The police chief has a challenge on her hands, sounds like they're handling well so far. Mayor apparently had a good face to face with the protestors.

Yeah, the situation there in Seattle is nothing short of Shangri La. Peace and love interspersed with a little gunfire here and there.

Of course.
People will behave badly, given time.

Even those communes of the hippy era had their breakdowns (see Manson) and this is no commune!

It's an interesting little microcosm that may actually help folks understand why we do need representative government and police etc. The issue is whether the government and the police truly do represent the best interests and desires of the people they govern and 'protect'. Unfortunately, government and police have way too often failed to do so. So we have protests demanding change that was not accomplished through regular order.

So anybody with a legitimate grievance should be allowed to take matters into their own hands and act independently of any local government? That sounds more like anarchy to me than anything else. I guess so long as you have good intentions your methods are then justified? Why don't we let people become vigilantes next? Their intentions are good, give payback to all those bad folks. You know as well as I do the courts can't get it right. Is there a line to be drawn here MD? I'm just asking.

It's a great question, cradle, and please don't think that my belief is all is cool with what's happening in Seattle at this time. But a use of force would be the opposite of what is called for, indeed would be most effective in the long haul, in this very moment of protest against the use of brutal force by the police.

Sometimes a nail calls for a hammer, sometimes you need the screw driver. It's important to know the difference.

So what does the leadership of Seattle do if these folks refuse to leave? The status quo is not acceptable. There has to be an ultimatum given to these people real soon. It is real simple... leave on your own or you will leave on terms you will not like. There is no group of people that have the right to take over private property and claim it for themselves. These people are breaking the law. There should be no negotiating. Leave or you all will be forcefully removed and charged with any and all appropriate crimes.

I'm sure the Mayor is frustrated. More than you.
But I disagree that such an ultimatum would do more than harden opposition.

IMO, Patience is a virtue in such situations.

These protests are sweeping the world, and we're far from done with them here in the US.
Force just ain't the answer.

But time will tell if the Mayor has charted the best course.
This violence inside seems to have created at least some dialogue.

so we're at 4 shootings, 2 killings, another at least in critical. in addition to alleged rape, robbery, assault. we'll leave the whole occupying and destroying property bit out...
you're good to date with the patience and that the violence is at least creating some dialogue...

my question or hypothetical is:
what's the over/under on body count before any switching gears might correctly be in the offing?
i'd offer 50 is way too high but i don't want to speak for you. single digits somewhere? higher? it depends?

Good hypothetical.

I quite agree that anarchy can be really ugly, but is there anyone being held captive?
Can people leave freely?

I think it may well be better to have folks get fed up with ' non-self-government' or whatever it is they think they're doing. Hopefully that comes soon.

"Can people leave freely?"

Yes but they are restricting who they will allow in. Police officers are unwelcome, you okay with that?

I'm not ok with it. Don't like the tactic at all of what is happening in Seattle.

My question went to tactics in response.
Koresh had a death cult, with children as total victims.
People could NOT leave.

Seattle doesn't pose this sort of problem.
So, patience doesn't have the same risk.

If one really wanted a "war", full scale armed violence against the police, spreading across the country then the tactic would be to roll tanks or tank-like vehicles through the CHOP, kill a bunch of protestors in the process, imprison the rest. The country would explode, no holds barred.

There ARE people rooting for that to happen.
Both left and right nut jobs.

And some politicians who think 'Law and Order' is a way to win elections otherwise slipping away.

[cradleandshoot]

White Antifa terrorists shoot and murder two underage black males in Seattle’s CHOP.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... oting.html

How is this not the lead story on every network right now?

That’s right, the media does anything to bend over backwards for Democrats.

Had the shooters been police, the media and certain Fanlax Democrats couldn’t shut up.

I saw this on CNN.

However, nowhere in the article you posted is the shooter or shooters described as "White Antifa terrorists" or remotely close to such. Instead, it sounds like the boys may have been stealing a car? Not even clear who started the shooting, much less the race of the participants other than the boys.

The police chief has a challenge on her hands, sounds like they're handling well so far. Mayor apparently had a good face to face with the protestors.

Yeah, the situation there in Seattle is nothing short of Shangri La. Peace and love interspersed with a little gunfire here and there.

Of course.
People will behave badly, given time.

Even those communes of the hippy era had their breakdowns (see Manson) and this is no commune!

It's an interesting little microcosm that may actually help folks understand why we do need representative government and police etc. The issue is whether the government and the police truly do represent the best interests and desires of the people they govern and 'protect'. Unfortunately, government and police have way too often failed to do so. So we have protests demanding change that was not accomplished through regular order.

So anybody with a legitimate grievance should be allowed to take matters into their own hands and act independently of any local government? That sounds more like anarchy to me than anything else. I guess so long as you have good intentions your methods are then justified? Why don't we let people become vigilantes next? Their intentions are good, give payback to all those bad folks. You know as well as I do the courts can't get it right. Is there a line to be drawn here MD? I'm just asking.

It's a great question, cradle, and please don't think that my belief is all is cool with what's happening in Seattle at this time. But a use of force would be the opposite of what is called for, indeed would be most effective in the long haul, in this very moment of protest against the use of brutal force by the police.

Sometimes a nail calls for a hammer, sometimes you need the screw driver. It's important to know the difference.

So what does the leadership of Seattle do if these folks refuse to leave? The status quo is not acceptable. There has to be an ultimatum given to these people real soon. It is real simple... leave on your own or you will leave on terms you will not like. There is no group of people that have the right to take over private property and claim it for themselves. These people are breaking the law. There should be no negotiating. Leave or you all will be forcefully removed and charged with any and all appropriate crimes.

I'm sure the Mayor is frustrated. More than you.
But I disagree that such an ultimatum would do more than harden opposition.

IMO, Patience is a virtue in such situations.

These protests are sweeping the world, and we're far from done with them here in the US.
Force just ain't the answer.

But time will tell if the Mayor has charted the best course.
This violence inside seems to have created at least some dialogue.

What does the Board think MD's take on Clive Bundy's takeover of an outpost on some grazing land in Oregon? Do you think MD advocated for 'patience'?

Hackish virtue signalling.

Seriously? You and cradle think these guys with their guns and militia training and right wing, hate the government, destroy the government, 'sovereign citizen' stuff is equivalent to BLM?

Cliven (not Clive) Bundy's 'sovereign citizen' folks are named as a terrorist threat in the US. Wonderful bunch those Oath Keepers, the White Mountain Militia, the Praetorian Guard types...

But yeah, the 'autopsy' of those earlier actions appears to be that patience might have been better than what ensued. We can't tell, for sure, but certainly these whack jobs took a beating that looks awful in retrospect. By contrast, the Bundy incidents ended up not having things blow up as the federal government backed off and de-escalated for that time period.

I don't recall any discussions of those events on LP (was there an LP in WACO and Ruby Ridge days???) but that's my sense. Using government force on American citizens tends to have unfortunate consequences, even when it's clear that they're some really despicable a-holes involved.

Where this tends to get tough to make the call is when the a-holes are armed to the teeth and not merely defiant of the law, but are actively threatening the lives of law enforcement.

Even then, we see the problems of escalating to full force.

"Seriously? You and cradle think these guys with their guns and militia training and right wing, hate the government, destroy the government, 'sovereign citizen' stuff is equivalent to BLM?"

Honestly MD I am not certain what BLM actually stands for. I made the mistake of actually going by the title BLACK LIVES MATTER. Silly me was under the impression it meant what it said. I was informed that BLM only when the black life is taken by a police officer. All those other black lives really are not all that important to BLM in the big scheme of things. What exactly is militia training in your mind? IMO it is a bunch of redneck hillbillies running around the woods shooting their rifles off. They lack discipline, basic infantry skills and have no ability to co-ordinate among themselves. Some of those tailgaters in the BLM have the co-ordination thing down to a science. They can have 5000 people at a protest where right on cue 500 people branch off in different directions and start picking stores down to the bone. They even had folks following them with vehicles to unload the loot and move on to the next store. These people were not BLM members. These were people who knew how to take advantage of a chaotic situation and rob, loot and burn to their hearts content. No need to worry about the police. They were all tied up with the protesters. You seem to have all the respect and fear in the world for these militia people. You have (apparently) no understanding at the skill and precision these looters used in their crime spree. How many of those militia folks MD were out there looting, burning and creating as much mayhem and chaos as possible? Just axin old sod.

The boogaloo boys were out in force and there's some overlap with the militia folks, but I certainly wouldn't suggest they were preeminent in the looting. They and the anarchist left were responsible for much of the violence, but not so much the looting from everything I could glean from my 'arm chair'.

I commented in real time that some of the looting looked quite coordinated. And, you're right, that's not BLM. Looked like criminal gang work. Other looting and burning was far more spontaneous, an expression of rage. Watch Spike Lee's exploration of this phenomenon from way back in 1989, Do the Right Thing.

BLM definitely does not say that other loss of life doesn't matter, whether black or otherwise. But the movement is indeed focused on police brutality and systemic racism.

Where there IS some overlap, is that there's a solid belief that the systemic racism underlies the criminal drug trade and its resultant violence, the incarceration of blacks, the lack of public health in all aspects (from environmental, to nutrition/fresh food access, to service access), etc and that a re-direction of resources to reversing these disparities built up over generations of redlining and discrimination would result in far less crime and need for policing.

We can debate that argument, but characterizing BLM as not caring about the loss of life other than at the hands of the police is simply a falsehood perpetuated by the ignorant and hard right, white supremacist and their partisan political proxies.

And yeah, there's a sound reason why the FBI is so worried about the militias and their anti-government, violent, typically (not always) racist ideology.

The FBI has a lot they should be concerned about. They have nut jobs from the far right and far left spectrum to deal with. If one element is more dangerous than the other I could not tell you. As far as BLM, I always go back to the murder of Latasha Shaw murdered in the middle of Driving Park Ave 3 blocks from where I lived at the time. She was a black woman trying to protect her daughter who was being beaten up. At least 50 people witnessed her murder, many of them black. Not a damn person would stand up for Ms Shaw and tell the police what they saw that day. NO SNITCHING was more important than justice for a cold blooded murder. There should have been 50 people willing to go to court and testify. No one was willing to say diddly jack squat. I am still confused at the term BLM. Latasha Shaw was a black woman whose life did not matter to the people who watched her die in the middle of the street. The day that any of you out here in fan lax land and explain the hypocrisy here to me, I will be all ears and eyes. Maybe I am just not enough of a deep thinker like all of you to comprehend the difference. The murder of Latasha Shaw broke my heart, I cried at the senselessness and brutality of it. Black Lives Matter, unless your name is Latasha Shaw, then nobody gave a flying fig about your black life.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

For those who can't see this article because they've used all their freebies:

Opinion by
Jonathan Capehart
Columnist
June 5, 2020 at 11:55 a.m. EDT
Now that we are engaged in yet another conversation on race, might I recommend Robin DiAngelo’s book “White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism.” But if you are white, I implore you to read it.

When you are black in America, your knowledge of white people in America and of the intricacies, contradictions and double standards of racism and white supremacy can only be described as intimate. As a result, as movie director Kasi Lemmons wrote in The Post on Monday, African Americans know whites “very well. We’ve had to. We had no choice. ... We had to know you to survive you.”

I have been wild about DiAngelo’s book since I read it last year because the associate professor of education at the University of Washington at Seattle is a white woman writing unflinchingly to white people about race. DiAngelo forces white people to see and understand how white supremacy permeates their lives and to recognize how they perpetuate it. More importantly, she shows them what they can do to change themselves and dismantle this pernicious system.

How white identity permeates policymaking outside of Washington

DiAngelo also demolishes the ready-made excuses and defenses white people use to absolve themselves of any responsibility when confronted with racism. “It’s like a script. It’s so predictable, what white people are going to say and do when the topic of race comes up,” DiAngelo told me during an interview for my podcast, “Cape Up.” She argues that white Americans view racism as an individual moral failing instead of the waste product of a system that prioritizes white people and whose levers are consciously (see: Amy Cooper in Central Park) and unconsciously manipulated by them.

The author of ‘White Fragility’ doesn’t think ‘most white people care about racial injustice’Subscribe0:00151538:02
“I don’t know that you could have come up with a more effective way to protect the system of racism than reduce it to this very simple formula. A racist is an individual who consciously doesn’t like people based on race. Apparently, it has to be conscious or it doesn’t count,” explained DiAngelo, who noted that the formula also requires that the hurt caused be intentional or it doesn’t count. “That definition not only exempts virtually all white people from the system we’re in, but I think it’s the root of virtually all white defensiveness. Because if that’s what I think it means to be racist and you suggest I’ve just said or done something racist ... I’m going to hear you saying that I am a bad person. That’s going to land as a question of my very moral character.

“And now, I’m going to need to defend my moral character. So, how will I defend it? Insist that I am not racist, I could not be racist,” DiAngelo said. “I’m going to give you ridiculous evidence. ‘I had a black roommate in college.’ ‘I speak several languages.’ ‘My goodness, I’ve been to Costa Rica.’” Yeah, I burst out laughing at that last one, too.

DiAngelo told me that she doesn’t say everyone is racist. She says everyone is biased, which is true. But not all biases are equal. “When you back my group’s bias with that kind of power, it’s just so profoundly different in its impact,” said DiAngelo, who pointed out that anti-blackness is a major factor. “The closer you are to blackness, the more profound will be the oppression. This is a system, and your smiling doesn’t interrupt it. Your niceness doesn’t interrupt it. You going to lunch on occasion with a co-worker of color doesn’t interrupt this system. The only thing that interrupts it is strategic, intentional action.”

There’s a ‘poisonous dynamic among white people’ over who’s to blame for racism

DiAngelo practices what she preaches. At the end of the interview, she did something extraordinary. She apologized — to me.

“I’m going to look at you, Jonathan, in the eyes and say, on behalf of my people, I apologize,” DiAngelo said. Tears slowly welled in my eyes as she said those words. In that moment, it was like I was in one of those movie scenes where one’s life flashes before their eyes, except for me, it was a montage of sleights and cruelty that litter my memory.

The time I was chased home by a carload of white teenagers when I was in middle school. The time when I was in high school, pumping gas on the Jersey shore during the summer, and a bunch of white men jumped out of their vehicle screaming n----- this and n----- that. Then there are the repetitive interactions with white people that threaten to build to a psychic death by myriad cuts.

I’ve seen white women clutch their purses and watched white men tap their back pockets to see if their wallets are still there. I’ve sat alone on a packed rush-hour commuter train back to the suburbs. I’ve had people assume I work at the store/restaurant/hotel I was in. I’ve had my space invaded because I’m not really seen by white people. I’ve been followed in stores because I’m seen as a thief or a threat. I’ve been mistaken for someone else black who looks nothing like me. I’ve had my experiences discounted or dismissed. I’ve watched others rise to positions I know I could do better. I fear leaving home for any duration of time without my driver’s license, health insurance card and a Washington Post business card with my husband’s phone number on it just in case I have a run-in with law enforcement or a stranger who calls the police. And I feel unsafe in my own country because the president of the United States delights in pouring gasoline on America’s four-century-old fire.

“I want you to know that as long as I’m alive, I will work to wake my people up, to continue my own process and to see that we can recover,” DiAngelo continued. “And at least, when I am at the end of my life, I can say I did what I could.” With that, I was overcome, crying my way through my thank-you that ended the interview. Why? Because with 70 words delivered with utmost sincerity, a woman I’d never met before acknowledged my hurt and my pain that now spans 52 years. That DiAngelo promised to keep working to make things right told me I have a true ally. That she wrote a book to help bring other white Americans along gives me hope that we actually could make things right.

I feel no guilt, or make any apologies, for being white, nor do I feel any kind of responsibility for the history of slavery in this country. None of "my folks" ever stepped foot on this land til long after any of those goings on, and none of them ever as much as lived in the segregated south.
I think Mr. Capehart likes to sensationalize and exaggerate a lot for effect.

but there are those who will argue- that you are enriched, whether you actually were or not, whether you asked for it or not, even if you or your ancestors came later, had nothing to do with this, heck even fought against discrimination, were not slaveowners in their home country, never rebelled against their home state nor exhibited a symbol of institutionalized racism, and in fact may have been oppressed or discriminated against based on their color, didnt have privileges, in fact had less privileges than people of different colors.

that was joe biden's position. and i think, perfectly reasonable. otherwise, where does it end.

[MDlaxfan76]

White Antifa terrorists shoot and murder two underage black males in Seattle’s CHOP.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... oting.html

How is this not the lead story on every network right now?

That’s right, the media does anything to bend over backwards for Democrats.

Had the shooters been police, the media and certain Fanlax Democrats couldn’t shut up.

I saw this on CNN.

However, nowhere in the article you posted is the shooter or shooters described as "White Antifa terrorists" or remotely close to such. Instead, it sounds like the boys may have been stealing a car? Not even clear who started the shooting, much less the race of the participants other than the boys.

The police chief has a challenge on her hands, sounds like they're handling well so far. Mayor apparently had a good face to face with the protestors.

Yeah, the situation there in Seattle is nothing short of Shangri La. Peace and love interspersed with a little gunfire here and there.

Of course.
People will behave badly, given time.

Even those communes of the hippy era had their breakdowns (see Manson) and this is no commune!

It's an interesting little microcosm that may actually help folks understand why we do need representative government and police etc. The issue is whether the government and the police truly do represent the best interests and desires of the people they govern and 'protect'. Unfortunately, government and police have way too often failed to do so. So we have protests demanding change that was not accomplished through regular order.

So anybody with a legitimate grievance should be allowed to take matters into their own hands and act independently of any local government? That sounds more like anarchy to me than anything else. I guess so long as you have good intentions your methods are then justified? Why don't we let people become vigilantes next? Their intentions are good, give payback to all those bad folks. You know as well as I do the courts can't get it right. Is there a line to be drawn here MD? I'm just asking.

It's a great question, cradle, and please don't think that my belief is all is cool with what's happening in Seattle at this time. But a use of force would be the opposite of what is called for, indeed would be most effective in the long haul, in this very moment of protest against the use of brutal force by the police.

Sometimes a nail calls for a hammer, sometimes you need the screw driver. It's important to know the difference.

So what does the leadership of Seattle do if these folks refuse to leave? The status quo is not acceptable. There has to be an ultimatum given to these people real soon. It is real simple... leave on your own or you will leave on terms you will not like. There is no group of people that have the right to take over private property and claim it for themselves. These people are breaking the law. There should be no negotiating. Leave or you all will be forcefully removed and charged with any and all appropriate crimes.

I'm sure the Mayor is frustrated. More than you.
But I disagree that such an ultimatum would do more than harden opposition.

IMO, Patience is a virtue in such situations.

These protests are sweeping the world, and we're far from done with them here in the US.
Force just ain't the answer.

But time will tell if the Mayor has charted the best course.
This violence inside seems to have created at least some dialogue.

What does the Board think MD's take on Clive Bundy's takeover of an outpost on some grazing land in Oregon? Do you think MD advocated for 'patience'?

Hackish virtue signalling.

Seriously? You and cradle think these guys with their guns and militia training and right wing, hate the government, destroy the government, 'sovereign citizen' stuff is equivalent to BLM?

Cliven (not Clive) Bundy's 'sovereign citizen' folks are named as a terrorist threat in the US. Wonderful bunch those Oath Keepers, the White Mountain Militia, the Praetorian Guard types...

But yeah, the 'autopsy' of those earlier actions appears to be that patience might have been better than what ensued. We can't tell, for sure, but certainly these whack jobs took a beating that looks awful in retrospect. By contrast, the Bundy incidents ended up not having things blow up as the federal government backed off and de-escalated for that time period.

I don't recall any discussions of those events on LP (was there an LP in WACO and Ruby Ridge days???) but that's my sense. Using government force on American citizens tends to have unfortunate consequences, even when it's clear that they're some really despicable a-holes involved.

Where this tends to get tough to make the call is when the a-holes are armed to the teeth and not merely defiant of the law, but are actively threatening the lives of law enforcement.

Even then, we see the problems of escalating to full force.

"Seriously? You and cradle think these guys with their guns and militia training and right wing, hate the government, destroy the government, 'sovereign citizen' stuff is equivalent to BLM?"

Honestly MD I am not certain what BLM actually stands for. I made the mistake of actually going by the title BLACK LIVES MATTER. Silly me was under the impression it meant what it said. I was informed that BLM only when the black life is taken by a police officer. All those other black lives really are not all that important to BLM in the big scheme of things. What exactly is militia training in your mind? IMO it is a bunch of redneck hillbillies running around the woods shooting their rifles off. They lack discipline, basic infantry skills and have no ability to co-ordinate among themselves. Some of those tailgaters in the BLM have the co-ordination thing down to a science. They can have 5000 people at a protest where right on cue 500 people branch off in different directions and start picking stores down to the bone. They even had folks following them with vehicles to unload the loot and move on to the next store. These people were not BLM members. These were people who knew how to take advantage of a chaotic situation and rob, loot and burn to their hearts content. No need to worry about the police. They were all tied up with the protesters. You seem to have all the respect and fear in the world for these militia people. You have (apparently) no understanding at the skill and precision these looters used in their crime spree. How many of those militia folks MD were out there looting, burning and creating as much mayhem and chaos as possible? Just axin old sod.

The boogaloo boys were out in force and there's some overlap with the militia folks, but I certainly wouldn't suggest they were preeminent in the looting. They and the anarchist left were responsible for much of the violence, but not so much the looting from everything I could glean from my 'arm chair'.

I commented in real time that some of the looting looked quite coordinated. And, you're right, that's not BLM. Looked like criminal gang work. Other looting and burning was far more spontaneous, an expression of rage. Watch Spike Lee's exploration of this phenomenon from way back in 1989, Do the Right Thing.

BLM definitely does not say that other loss of life doesn't matter, whether black or otherwise. But the movement is indeed focused on police brutality and systemic racism.

Where there IS some overlap, is that there's a solid belief that the systemic racism underlies the criminal drug trade and its resultant violence, the incarceration of blacks, the lack of public health in all aspects (from environmental, to nutrition/fresh food access, to service access), etc and that a re-direction of resources to reversing these disparities built up over generations of redlining and discrimination would result in far less crime and need for policing.

We can debate that argument, but characterizing BLM as not caring about the loss of life other than at the hands of the police is simply a falsehood perpetuated by the ignorant and hard right, white supremacist and their partisan political proxies.

And yeah, there's a sound reason why the FBI is so worried about the militias and their anti-government, violent, typically (not always) racist ideology.

The FBI has a lot they should be concerned about. They have nut jobs from the far right and far left spectrum to deal with. If one element is more dangerous than the other I could not tell you. As far as BLM, I always go back to the murder of Latasha Shaw murdered in the middle of Driving Park Ave 3 blocks from where I lived at the time. She was a black woman trying to protect her daughter who was being beaten up. At least 50 people witnessed her murder, many of them black. Not a damn person would stand up for Ms Shaw and tell the police what they saw that day. NO SNITCHING was more important than justice for a cold blooded murder. There should have been 50 people willing to go to court and testify. No one was willing to say diddly jack squat. I am still confused at the term BLM. Latasha Shaw was a black woman whose life did not matter to the people who watched her die in the middle of the street. The day that any of you out here in fan lax land and explain the hypocrisy here to me, I will be all ears and eyes. Maybe I am just not enough of a deep thinker like all of you to comprehend the difference. The murder of Latasha Shaw broke my heart, I cried at the senselessness and brutality of it. Black Lives Matter, unless your name is Latasha Shaw, then nobody gave a flying fig about your black life.

geez, I am seriously not qualified to speak for BLM, nor for the culture of not talking to the police, "No Snitching". You are not qualified as well.

But it certainly occurs to me that the loss of trust in the police has deep, awful roots. And likewise, fear of criminal gang reprisal (you and your family get killed) is a huge, awful factor.

On Latasha Shaw, there's little doubt she'd have been marching with BLM.
And against gang violence.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 470404002/

[Peter Brown]

Democrats continue to riot in Portland.

Media won’t cover it. Except one. Literally the city is unlivable right now.

Every night.

Amazing.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-pol ... s-reported

[MDlaxfan76]

Democrats continue to riot in Portland.

Media won’t cover it. Except one. Literally the city is unlivable right now.

Every night.

Amazing.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-pol ... s-reported

hmm,FALSE, the police chief was all over the mainstream news over the weekend and yesterday. This is being covered.

That said, Fox is claiming that the police used tear gas last night during a court order against such until at least July 24. I haven't seen that yet reported elsewhere, but if true it will surely be reported when confirmed.

[youthathletics]

Democrats continue to riot in Portland.

Media won’t cover it. Except one. Literally the city is unlivable right now.

Every night.

Amazing.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-pol ... s-reported

hmm,FALSE, the police chief was all over the mainstream news over the weekend and yesterday. This is being covered.

That said, Fox is claiming that the police used tear gas last night during a court order against such until at least July 24. I haven't seen that yet reported elsewhere, but if true it will surely be reported when confirmed.

How can you claim False in your second word, then finish with "I havent see that yet reported". Are you eating waffles again?

[Farfromgeneva]

White Antifa terrorists shoot and murder two underage black males in Seattle’s CHOP.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... oting.html

How is this not the lead story on every network right now?

That’s right, the media does anything to bend over backwards for Democrats.

Had the shooters been police, the media and certain Fanlax Democrats couldn’t shut up.

I saw this on CNN.

However, nowhere in the article you posted is the shooter or shooters described as "White Antifa terrorists" or remotely close to such. Instead, it sounds like the boys may have been stealing a car? Not even clear who started the shooting, much less the race of the participants other than the boys.

The police chief has a challenge on her hands, sounds like they're handling well so far. Mayor apparently had a good face to face with the protestors.

Yeah, the situation there in Seattle is nothing short of Shangri La. Peace and love interspersed with a little gunfire here and there.

Of course.
People will behave badly, given time.

Even those communes of the hippy era had their breakdowns (see Manson) and this is no commune!

It's an interesting little microcosm that may actually help folks understand why we do need representative government and police etc. The issue is whether the government and the police truly do represent the best interests and desires of the people they govern and 'protect'. Unfortunately, government and police have way too often failed to do so. So we have protests demanding change that was not accomplished through regular order.

So anybody with a legitimate grievance should be allowed to take matters into their own hands and act independently of any local government? That sounds more like anarchy to me than anything else. I guess so long as you have good intentions your methods are then justified? Why don't we let people become vigilantes next? Their intentions are good, give payback to all those bad folks. You know as well as I do the courts can't get it right. Is there a line to be drawn here MD? I'm just asking.

It's a great question, cradle, and please don't think that my belief is all is cool with what's happening in Seattle at this time. But a use of force would be the opposite of what is called for, indeed would be most effective in the long haul, in this very moment of protest against the use of brutal force by the police.

Sometimes a nail calls for a hammer, sometimes you need the screw driver. It's important to know the difference.

So what does the leadership of Seattle do if these folks refuse to leave? The status quo is not acceptable. There has to be an ultimatum given to these people real soon. It is real simple... leave on your own or you will leave on terms you will not like. There is no group of people that have the right to take over private property and claim it for themselves. These people are breaking the law. There should be no negotiating. Leave or you all will be forcefully removed and charged with any and all appropriate crimes.

I'm sure the Mayor is frustrated. More than you.
But I disagree that such an ultimatum would do more than harden opposition.

IMO, Patience is a virtue in such situations.

These protests are sweeping the world, and we're far from done with them here in the US.
Force just ain't the answer.

But time will tell if the Mayor has charted the best course.
This violence inside seems to have created at least some dialogue.

What does the Board think MD's take on Clive Bundy's takeover of an outpost on some grazing land in Oregon? Do you think MD advocated for 'patience'?

Hackish virtue signalling.

Seriously? You and cradle think these guys with their guns and militia training and right wing, hate the government, destroy the government, 'sovereign citizen' stuff is equivalent to BLM?

Cliven (not Clive) Bundy's 'sovereign citizen' folks are named as a terrorist threat in the US. Wonderful bunch those Oath Keepers, the White Mountain Militia, the Praetorian Guard types...

But yeah, the 'autopsy' of those earlier actions appears to be that patience might have been better than what ensued. We can't tell, for sure, but certainly these whack jobs took a beating that looks awful in retrospect. By contrast, the Bundy incidents ended up not having things blow up as the federal government backed off and de-escalated for that time period.

I don't recall any discussions of those events on LP (was there an LP in WACO and Ruby Ridge days???) but that's my sense. Using government force on American citizens tends to have unfortunate consequences, even when it's clear that they're some really despicable a-holes involved.

Where this tends to get tough to make the call is when the a-holes are armed to the teeth and not merely defiant of the law, but are actively threatening the lives of law enforcement.

Even then, we see the problems of escalating to full force.

"Seriously? You and cradle think these guys with their guns and militia training and right wing, hate the government, destroy the government, 'sovereign citizen' stuff is equivalent to BLM?"

Honestly MD I am not certain what BLM actually stands for. I made the mistake of actually going by the title BLACK LIVES MATTER. Silly me was under the impression it meant what it said. I was informed that BLM only when the black life is taken by a police officer. All those other black lives really are not all that important to BLM in the big scheme of things. What exactly is militia training in your mind? IMO it is a bunch of redneck hillbillies running around the woods shooting their rifles off. They lack discipline, basic infantry skills and have no ability to co-ordinate among themselves. Some of those tailgaters in the BLM have the co-ordination thing down to a science. They can have 5000 people at a protest where right on cue 500 people branch off in different directions and start picking stores down to the bone. They even had folks following them with vehicles to unload the loot and move on to the next store. These people were not BLM members. These were people who knew how to take advantage of a chaotic situation and rob, loot and burn to their hearts content. No need to worry about the police. They were all tied up with the protesters. You seem to have all the respect and fear in the world for these militia people. You have (apparently) no understanding at the skill and precision these looters used in their crime spree. How many of those militia folks MD were out there looting, burning and creating as much mayhem and chaos as possible? Just axin old sod.

The boogaloo boys were out in force and there's some overlap with the militia folks, but I certainly wouldn't suggest they were preeminent in the looting. They and the anarchist left were responsible for much of the violence, but not so much the looting from everything I could glean from my 'arm chair'.

I commented in real time that some of the looting looked quite coordinated. And, you're right, that's not BLM. Looked like criminal gang work. Other looting and burning was far more spontaneous, an expression of rage. Watch Spike Lee's exploration of this phenomenon from way back in 1989, Do the Right Thing.

BLM definitely does not say that other loss of life doesn't matter, whether black or otherwise. But the movement is indeed focused on police brutality and systemic racism.

Where there IS some overlap, is that there's a solid belief that the systemic racism underlies the criminal drug trade and its resultant violence, the incarceration of blacks, the lack of public health in all aspects (from environmental, to nutrition/fresh food access, to service access), etc and that a re-direction of resources to reversing these disparities built up over generations of redlining and discrimination would result in far less crime and need for policing.

We can debate that argument, but characterizing BLM as not caring about the loss of life other than at the hands of the police is simply a falsehood perpetuated by the ignorant and hard right, white supremacist and their partisan political proxies.

And yeah, there's a sound reason why the FBI is so worried about the militias and their anti-government, violent, typically (not always) racist ideology.

The FBI has a lot they should be concerned about. They have nut jobs from the far right and far left spectrum to deal with. If one element is more dangerous than the other I could not tell you. As far as BLM, I always go back to the murder of Latasha Shaw murdered in the middle of Driving Park Ave 3 blocks from where I lived at the time. She was a black woman trying to protect her daughter who was being beaten up. At least 50 people witnessed her murder, many of them black. Not a damn person would stand up for Ms Shaw and tell the police what they saw that day. NO SNITCHING was more important than justice for a cold blooded murder. There should have been 50 people willing to go to court and testify. No one was willing to say diddly jack squat. I am still confused at the term BLM. Latasha Shaw was a black woman whose life did not matter to the people who watched her die in the middle of the street. The day that any of you out here in fan lax land and explain the hypocrisy here to me, I will be all ears and eyes. Maybe I am just not enough of a deep thinker like all of you to comprehend the difference. The murder of Latasha Shaw broke my heart, I cried at the senselessness and brutality of it. Black Lives Matter, unless your name is Latasha Shaw, then nobody gave a flying fig about your black life.

geez, I am seriously not qualified to speak for BLM, nor for the culture of not talking to the police, "No Snitching". You are not qualified as well.

But it certainly occurs to me that the loss of trust in the police has deep, awful roots. And likewise, fear of criminal gang reprisal (you and your family get killed) is a huge, awful factor.

On Latasha Shaw, there's little doubt she'd have been marching with BLM.
And against gang violence.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 470404002/

No snitching does not equal black. It’s a cohort of gang and, generally but not always, urban ethos backed by the very real threat of harm but those that illegally enforce such a code. The difference would be when someone has sovereign right to limited use of force, abuses it and then is not held accountable. Should be pretty obvious the difference IMO. Further if the people threatened but said “no snitching” or “snitches get stitches” code aren’t protected by those swearing an oath to protect and serve it only emboldens those that look to maintain such code in order to continue to perpetrate crimes against society. Pretty straightforward.

And by the way when moronic and incredibly overrated Carmelo Anthony was observed in a underground video regarding the message of Dont Snitch, there were a ton of his black NBA counterparts who immediately denounced it, not just league reps like David Stern, so one could argue that’s evidence that these people were consistent that all lives, including black ones, matter.

[MDlaxfan76]

Democrats continue to riot in Portland.

Media won’t cover it. Except one. Literally the city is unlivable right now.

Every night.

Amazing.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-pol ... s-reported

hmm,FALSE, the police chief was all over the mainstream news over the weekend and yesterday. This is being covered.

That said, Fox is claiming that the police used tear gas last night during a court order against such until at least July 24. I haven't seen that yet reported elsewhere, but if true it will surely be reported when confirmed.

How can you claim False in your second word, then finish with "I havent see that yet reported". Are you eating waffles again?

It is FALSE to claim that violence in Seattle isn't being reported.
PB's constant refrain is that only Fox (and OAN) cover the violence, it's ignored by CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, NPT/NPR, NYT, WaPo, WSJ etc

Simply not accurate.

But the 'news' that the police used tear gas hasn't yet been 'reported' by other than Fox. That'll certainly raise to the level of actual change in situation, if true, and would be surely reported by others. Wait a heart beat, maybe Fox actually has it right. Or maybe not.

All of these news groups sometimes get it wrong. What makes them credible is that the honest ones correct their errors.
Fox News is generally credible, or at least has been historically so with leadership from folks like Shep Smith. Pundits less so.

[ABV 8.3%]

… no where in the world is the Nation of Islam on a terrorist watch list.

Should they be?

guessing your vanity license plate reads " YACUB"

ignorants....the lot of youse

[MDlaxfan76]

White Antifa terrorists shoot and murder two underage black males in Seattle’s CHOP.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... oting.html

How is this not the lead story on every network right now?

That’s right, the media does anything to bend over backwards for Democrats.

Had the shooters been police, the media and certain Fanlax Democrats couldn’t shut up.

I saw this on CNN.

However, nowhere in the article you posted is the shooter or shooters described as "White Antifa terrorists" or remotely close to such. Instead, it sounds like the boys may have been stealing a car? Not even clear who started the shooting, much less the race of the participants other than the boys.

The police chief has a challenge on her hands, sounds like they're handling well so far. Mayor apparently had a good face to face with the protestors.

Yeah, the situation there in Seattle is nothing short of Shangri La. Peace and love interspersed with a little gunfire here and there.

Of course.
People will behave badly, given time.

Even those communes of the hippy era had their breakdowns (see Manson) and this is no commune!

It's an interesting little microcosm that may actually help folks understand why we do need representative government and police etc. The issue is whether the government and the police truly do represent the best interests and desires of the people they govern and 'protect'. Unfortunately, government and police have way too often failed to do so. So we have protests demanding change that was not accomplished through regular order.

So anybody with a legitimate grievance should be allowed to take matters into their own hands and act independently of any local government? That sounds more like anarchy to me than anything else. I guess so long as you have good intentions your methods are then justified? Why don't we let people become vigilantes next? Their intentions are good, give payback to all those bad folks. You know as well as I do the courts can't get it right. Is there a line to be drawn here MD? I'm just asking.

It's a great question, cradle, and please don't think that my belief is all is cool with what's happening in Seattle at this time. But a use of force would be the opposite of what is called for, indeed would be most effective in the long haul, in this very moment of protest against the use of brutal force by the police.

Sometimes a nail calls for a hammer, sometimes you need the screw driver. It's important to know the difference.

So what does the leadership of Seattle do if these folks refuse to leave? The status quo is not acceptable. There has to be an ultimatum given to these people real soon. It is real simple... leave on your own or you will leave on terms you will not like. There is no group of people that have the right to take over private property and claim it for themselves. These people are breaking the law. There should be no negotiating. Leave or you all will be forcefully removed and charged with any and all appropriate crimes.

I'm sure the Mayor is frustrated. More than you.
But I disagree that such an ultimatum would do more than harden opposition.

IMO, Patience is a virtue in such situations.

These protests are sweeping the world, and we're far from done with them here in the US.
Force just ain't the answer.

But time will tell if the Mayor has charted the best course.
This violence inside seems to have created at least some dialogue.

What does the Board think MD's take on Clive Bundy's takeover of an outpost on some grazing land in Oregon? Do you think MD advocated for 'patience'?

Hackish virtue signalling.

Seriously? You and cradle think these guys with their guns and militia training and right wing, hate the government, destroy the government, 'sovereign citizen' stuff is equivalent to BLM?

Cliven (not Clive) Bundy's 'sovereign citizen' folks are named as a terrorist threat in the US. Wonderful bunch those Oath Keepers, the White Mountain Militia, the Praetorian Guard types...

But yeah, the 'autopsy' of those earlier actions appears to be that patience might have been better than what ensued. We can't tell, for sure, but certainly these whack jobs took a beating that looks awful in retrospect. By contrast, the Bundy incidents ended up not having things blow up as the federal government backed off and de-escalated for that time period.

I don't recall any discussions of those events on LP (was there an LP in WACO and Ruby Ridge days???) but that's my sense. Using government force on American citizens tends to have unfortunate consequences, even when it's clear that they're some really despicable a-holes involved.

Where this tends to get tough to make the call is when the a-holes are armed to the teeth and not merely defiant of the law, but are actively threatening the lives of law enforcement.

Even then, we see the problems of escalating to full force.

"Seriously? You and cradle think these guys with their guns and militia training and right wing, hate the government, destroy the government, 'sovereign citizen' stuff is equivalent to BLM?"

Honestly MD I am not certain what BLM actually stands for. I made the mistake of actually going by the title BLACK LIVES MATTER. Silly me was under the impression it meant what it said. I was informed that BLM only when the black life is taken by a police officer. All those other black lives really are not all that important to BLM in the big scheme of things. What exactly is militia training in your mind? IMO it is a bunch of redneck hillbillies running around the woods shooting their rifles off. They lack discipline, basic infantry skills and have no ability to co-ordinate among themselves. Some of those tailgaters in the BLM have the co-ordination thing down to a science. They can have 5000 people at a protest where right on cue 500 people branch off in different directions and start picking stores down to the bone. They even had folks following them with vehicles to unload the loot and move on to the next store. These people were not BLM members. These were people who knew how to take advantage of a chaotic situation and rob, loot and burn to their hearts content. No need to worry about the police. They were all tied up with the protesters. You seem to have all the respect and fear in the world for these militia people. You have (apparently) no understanding at the skill and precision these looters used in their crime spree. How many of those militia folks MD were out there looting, burning and creating as much mayhem and chaos as possible? Just axin old sod.

The boogaloo boys were out in force and there's some overlap with the militia folks, but I certainly wouldn't suggest they were preeminent in the looting. They and the anarchist left were responsible for much of the violence, but not so much the looting from everything I could glean from my 'arm chair'.

I commented in real time that some of the looting looked quite coordinated. And, you're right, that's not BLM. Looked like criminal gang work. Other looting and burning was far more spontaneous, an expression of rage. Watch Spike Lee's exploration of this phenomenon from way back in 1989, Do the Right Thing.

BLM definitely does not say that other loss of life doesn't matter, whether black or otherwise. But the movement is indeed focused on police brutality and systemic racism.

Where there IS some overlap, is that there's a solid belief that the systemic racism underlies the criminal drug trade and its resultant violence, the incarceration of blacks, the lack of public health in all aspects (from environmental, to nutrition/fresh food access, to service access), etc and that a re-direction of resources to reversing these disparities built up over generations of redlining and discrimination would result in far less crime and need for policing.

We can debate that argument, but characterizing BLM as not caring about the loss of life other than at the hands of the police is simply a falsehood perpetuated by the ignorant and hard right, white supremacist and their partisan political proxies.

And yeah, there's a sound reason why the FBI is so worried about the militias and their anti-government, violent, typically (not always) racist ideology.

The FBI has a lot they should be concerned about. They have nut jobs from the far right and far left spectrum to deal with. If one element is more dangerous than the other I could not tell you. As far as BLM, I always go back to the murder of Latasha Shaw murdered in the middle of Driving Park Ave 3 blocks from where I lived at the time. She was a black woman trying to protect her daughter who was being beaten up. At least 50 people witnessed her murder, many of them black. Not a damn person would stand up for Ms Shaw and tell the police what they saw that day. NO SNITCHING was more important than justice for a cold blooded murder. There should have been 50 people willing to go to court and testify. No one was willing to say diddly jack squat. I am still confused at the term BLM. Latasha Shaw was a black woman whose life did not matter to the people who watched her die in the middle of the street. The day that any of you out here in fan lax land and explain the hypocrisy here to me, I will be all ears and eyes. Maybe I am just not enough of a deep thinker like all of you to comprehend the difference. The murder of Latasha Shaw broke my heart, I cried at the senselessness and brutality of it. Black Lives Matter, unless your name is Latasha Shaw, then nobody gave a flying fig about your black life.

geez, I am seriously not qualified to speak for BLM, nor for the culture of not talking to the police, "No Snitching". You are not qualified as well.

But it certainly occurs to me that the loss of trust in the police has deep, awful roots. And likewise, fear of criminal gang reprisal (you and your family get killed) is a huge, awful factor.

On Latasha Shaw, there's little doubt she'd have been marching with BLM.
And against gang violence.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 470404002/

No snitching does not equal black. It’s a cohort of gang and, generally but not always, urban ethos backed by the very real threat of harm but those that illegally enforce such a code. The difference would be when someone has sovereign right to limited use of force, abuses it and then is not held accountable. Should be pretty obvious the difference IMO. Further if the people threatened but said “no snitching” or “snitches get stitches” code aren’t protected by those swearing an oath to protect and serve it only emboldens those that look to maintain such code in order to continue to perpetrate crimes against society. Pretty straightforward.

And by the way when moronic and incredibly overrated Carmelo Anthony was observed in a underground video regarding the message of Dont Snitch, there were a ton of his black NBA counterparts who immediately denounced it, not just league reps like David Stern, so one could argue that’s evidence that these people were consistent that all lives, including black ones, matter.

yes, that culture of intimidation is most often gang related, certainly not racial.
Check out Boston's Irish gangs, the Mafia, etc.
BTW, it also exists in the police force.

The only 'urban' aspect is that gangs tend to be where there are people, and there are more people in cities than on farms.

But it's also in small cities and towns, indeed any community in which those willing to hurt others to protect their own interests, typically economic interests, intimidate others into silence. Try speaking up in a small rural community about the local small factory's pollution, or even the spousal or even child abuse by a wealthy or otherwise prominent person in that community.

Agreed on Carmelo.

[Peter Brown]

Democrats continue to riot in Portland.

Media won’t cover it. Except one. Literally the city is unlivable right now.

Every night.

Amazing.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-pol ... s-reported

hmm,FALSE, the police chief was all over the mainstream news over the weekend and yesterday. This is being covered.

That said, Fox is claiming that the police used tear gas last night during a court order against such until at least July 24. I haven't seen that yet reported elsewhere, but if true it will surely be reported when confirmed.

Every morning now I tune in to The Today Show on NBC which I gather is the highest rated mainstream net show. They have yet to discuss the lawless rioting in Portland, but they are very quick to fear-porn the Covid virus every second. Last night's Democratic violence was some of the worst.

Democrats and media are dishonest clowns. Repeat their talking points and you are a clown too.

[youthathletics]

Fr Thomas Haake, an 80 year old Priest Assaulted by BLM Supporters

Interesting this story never made ANY major news outlet.

[Matnum PI]

Dear white people, please read ‘White Fragility’

The reaction to this opinion piece and the book White Fragility from so many within this thread is very... fragile.

[ABV 8.3%]

Reparations......how would it work? Anyone with a certain skin pigment gets, what, MORE than the joke $1200 our Congress handed out to all adults. (I never got one....anywaz)

It has been reported that Obama's mother's family OWNED slaves. And, of course, his father is from Kenya. Hence, Barack is a Kenyan-American.

If there is ANY slavery blood in our former POTUSA (well, no, he still smokes) dna, it could only be from his mother's side? Similar to Tommy J's and Sally's love child.

Would he be eligible for reparations.

[ABV 8.3%]

Fr Thomas Haake, an 80 year old Priest Assaulted by BLM Supporters

Interesting this story never made ANY major news outlet.

I thought NAMBLA took it's website down ....

[MDlaxfan76]

Fr Thomas Haake, an 80 year old Priest Assaulted by BLM Supporters

Interesting this story never made ANY major news outlet.

geez, ya think if it was actually BLM it wouldn't have been reported on Fox?

All I could find on google was some twitter and reddit chatter, nothing confirmed at all.
Just this right wing screed rag. (haven't checked out who owns it)

If it's true, though, give it a heart beat and it'll rise to the surface.

[ABV 8.3%]

White Antifa terrorists shoot and murder two underage black males in Seattle’s CHOP.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... oting.html

How is this not the lead story on every network right now?

That’s right, the media does anything to bend over backwards for Democrats.

Had the shooters been police, the media and certain Fanlax Democrats couldn’t shut up.

I saw this on CNN.

However, nowhere in the article you posted is the shooter or shooters described as "White Antifa terrorists" or remotely close to such. Instead, it sounds like the boys may have been stealing a car? Not even clear who started the shooting, much less the race of the participants other than the boys.

The police chief has a challenge on her hands, sounds like they're handling well so far. Mayor apparently had a good face to face with the protestors.

Yeah, the situation there in Seattle is nothing short of Shangri La. Peace and love interspersed with a little gunfire here and there.

Of course.
People will behave badly, given time.

Even those communes of the hippy era had their breakdowns (see Manson) and this is no commune!

It's an interesting little microcosm that may actually help folks understand why we do need representative government and police etc. The issue is whether the government and the police truly do represent the best interests and desires of the people they govern and 'protect'. Unfortunately, government and police have way too often failed to do so. So we have protests demanding change that was not accomplished through regular order.

So anybody with a legitimate grievance should be allowed to take matters into their own hands and act independently of any local government? That sounds more like anarchy to me than anything else. I guess so long as you have good intentions your methods are then justified? Why don't we let people become vigilantes next? Their intentions are good, give payback to all those bad folks. You know as well as I do the courts can't get it right. Is there a line to be drawn here MD? I'm just asking.

It's a great question, cradle, and please don't think that my belief is all is cool with what's happening in Seattle at this time. But a use of force would be the opposite of what is called for, indeed would be most effective in the long haul, in this very moment of protest against the use of brutal force by the police.

Sometimes a nail calls for a hammer, sometimes you need the screw driver. It's important to know the difference.

So what does the leadership of Seattle do if these folks refuse to leave? The status quo is not acceptable. There has to be an ultimatum given to these people real soon. It is real simple... leave on your own or you will leave on terms you will not like. There is no group of people that have the right to take over private property and claim it for themselves. These people are breaking the law. There should be no negotiating. Leave or you all will be forcefully removed and charged with any and all appropriate crimes.

I'm sure the Mayor is frustrated. More than you.
But I disagree that such an ultimatum would do more than harden opposition.

IMO, Patience is a virtue in such situations.

These protests are sweeping the world, and we're far from done with them here in the US.
Force just ain't the answer.

But time will tell if the Mayor has charted the best course.
This violence inside seems to have created at least some dialogue.

so we're at 4 shootings, 2 killings, another at least in critical. in addition to alleged rape, robbery, assault. we'll leave the whole occupying and destroying property bit out...
you're good to date with the patience and that the violence is at least creating some dialogue...

my question or hypothetical is:
what's the over/under on body count before any switching gears might correctly be in the offing?
i'd offer 50 is way too high but i don't want to speak for you. single digits somewhere? higher? it depends?

Good hypothetical.

I quite agree that anarchy can be really ugly, but is there anyone being held captive?
Can people leave freely?

I think it may well be better to have folks get fed up with ' non-self-government' or whatever it is they think they're doing. Hopefully that comes soon.

"Can people leave freely?"

Yes but they are restricting who they will allow in. Police officers are unwelcome, you okay with that?

I'm not ok with it. Don't like the tactic at all of what is happening in Seattle.

My question went to tactics in response.
Koresh had a death cult, with children as total victims.
People could NOT leave.

Seattle doesn't pose this sort of problem.
So, patience doesn't have the same risk.

If one really wanted a "war", full scale armed violence against the police, spreading across the country then the tactic would be to roll tanks or tank-like vehicles through the CHOP, kill a bunch of protestors in the process, imprison the rest. The country would explode, no holds barred.

There ARE people rooting for that to happen.
Both left and right nut jobs.

And some politicians who think 'Law and Order' is a way to win elections otherwise slipping away.

forget tactics and ID or EGO conversations.......what about the ironical hypocrites, building a WALL to keep what they want out. Ok when THEY do it. ok, got it. Focus on THAT......and the CHOP hypocrites will melt away.

[MDlaxfan76]

Democrats continue to riot in Portland.

Media won’t cover it. Except one. Literally the city is unlivable right now.

Every night.

Amazing.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-pol ... s-reported

hmm,FALSE, the police chief was all over the mainstream news over the weekend and yesterday. This is being covered.

That said, Fox is claiming that the police used tear gas last night during a court order against such until at least July 24. I haven't seen that yet reported elsewhere, but if true it will surely be reported when confirmed.

Every morning now I tune in to The Today Show on NBC which I gather is the highest rated mainstream net show. They have yet to discuss the lawless rioting in Portland, but they are very quick to fear-porn the Covid virus every second. Last night's Democratic violence was some of the worst.

Democrats and media are dishonest clowns. Repeat their talking points and you are a clown too.

The Today Show???
It's definitely not a news show. Try MSNBC if you want their more news oriented morning fare, though that's more about politics than news. Gotta go to CNN if you want closer to real time.

Did Fox actually cover the violence in Seattle last night on their morning cable talk show? Probably not.

as to fear porn, blame Fauci's prediction of 100k cases per day if we stay on current track.

[MDlaxfan76]

RRR, fatty, ABV, how about picking a handle and sticking with it?