All Things Russia & Ukraine

[old salt]

Happy times for Putin. EUrope is coming apart at the seams.

Paris in flames & now a shooting in the Strasbourg Xmas market by a local on the security watch list.

Semi-soft Brexit agreement going down. Lame duck Merkel. Military buildup in Ukraine.

US paralyzed with Russophobia. No matter what Trump does (even if nothing) he'll be accused of being Putin's puppet.

Putin / Russia want Brexit, that's why they pushed so hard for it - if it dies and Europe is stronger, they lose.

In other news, France has these moments frequently. It's so out of place for us to demand help for the poor and lower class that it looks like a major uprising to the U.S..

16 (and counting) Trump associates had contacts with Russians during campaign or transition, including at least six who have plead guilty or have been convicted of crimes relating to the matter.

Oil and gas prices are dropping, which is really bad for Russia. Russia is also facing more sanctions and opposition from a united front of the modern world. They have reacted by doing things like sending bombers to Venezuela and Naval blockades. And yet Putin's approval rating is still dropping significantly (which has happened really one other time).

The US isn't paralyzed unless you're the Republican party trying to pass healthcare reform or immigration reform.

In reality, it's not happy times for Putin - I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

US paralyzed with Russophobia. No matter what Trump does (even if nothing) he'll be accused of being Putin's puppet.

If you really believe that, that means he's free to anything he wishes.

For Trump's fans, including old salt, he can do no wrong. This also means he's free to do anything he likes. So lifelong Republicans don't care if he protects Union jobs over non-Union jobs. Or tanks the stock market by over-borrowing and starting trade wars with, well, everyone.

I have no clue why you think Trump can't do anything he wants. Wishful thinking?

Putin IS free to do whatever he wants. That's my point.

While Putin continues to tighten his grip on Crimea & threaten E Ukraine, rather than increasing sanctions, our EU/NATO allies debate whether or not to even continue existing sanctions. The Ukrainian President pleas for NATO to send warships to maintain freedom of navigation in Ukrainian territorial waters, & the response is for the US (acting alone) to inform Turkey of our intent to send a single (vulnerable) destroyer into the Black Sea, ...maybe.

The US, EU & NATO encouraged Ukraine to give up their nucs & to prepare for NATO & EU membership, then helped them stage 2 successful revolutions against pro-Russian elected governments.

The US-EU-NATO pushed Ukraine to this point. Now that Putin pushes back, we turn our backs on them.
I disagreed with doing all that, but we did it. We can't turn away now.

The more Putin takes, without meaningful pushback, the more he'll continue to take.
We're paralyzed by our political debate & uncertainty over Trump-Russia, & our NATO allies won't act without us in the lead.
...& so far, they're not following our lead.

[jhu72]

Happy times for Putin. EUrope is coming apart at the seams.

Paris in flames & now a shooting in the Strasbourg Xmas market by a local on the security watch list.

Semi-soft Brexit agreement going down. Lame duck Merkel. Military buildup in Ukraine.

US paralyzed with Russophobia. No matter what Trump does (even if nothing) he'll be accused of being Putin's puppet.

Putin / Russia want Brexit, that's why they pushed so hard for it - if it dies and Europe is stronger, they lose.

In other news, France has these moments frequently. It's so out of place for us to demand help for the poor and lower class that it looks like a major uprising to the U.S..

16 (and counting) Trump associates had contacts with Russians during campaign or transition, including at least six who have plead guilty or have been convicted of crimes relating to the matter.

Oil and gas prices are dropping, which is really bad for Russia. Russia is also facing more sanctions and opposition from a united front of the modern world. They have reacted by doing things like sending bombers to Venezuela and Naval blockades. And yet Putin's approval rating is still dropping significantly (which has happened really one other time).

The US isn't paralyzed unless you're the Republican party trying to pass healthcare reform or immigration reform.

In reality, it's not happy times for Putin - I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

+1

[old salt]

Happy times for Putin. EUrope is coming apart at the seams.

Paris in flames & now a shooting in the Strasbourg Xmas market by a local on the security watch list.

Semi-soft Brexit agreement going down. Lame duck Merkel. Military buildup in Ukraine.

US paralyzed with Russophobia. No matter what Trump does (even if nothing) he'll be accused of being Putin's puppet.

Putin / Russia want Brexit, that's why they pushed so hard for it - if it dies and Europe is stronger, they lose.

In other news, France has these moments frequently. It's so out of place for us to demand help for the poor and lower class that it looks like a major uprising to the U.S..

16 (and counting) Trump associates had contacts with Russians during campaign or transition, including at least six who have plead guilty or have been convicted of crimes relating to the matter.

Oil and gas prices are dropping, which is really bad for Russia. Russia is also facing more sanctions and opposition from a united front of the modern world. They have reacted by doing things like sending bombers to Venezuela and Naval blockades. And yet Putin's approval rating is still dropping significantly (which has happened really one other time).

The US isn't paralyzed unless you're the Republican party trying to pass healthcare reform or immigration reform.

In reality, it's not happy times for Putin - I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

+1

Nothing to see here. Keep telling yourself that, when Putin takes another bite out of Ukraine or sinks one of their warships.

[jhu72]

Happy times for Putin. EUrope is coming apart at the seams.

Paris in flames & now a shooting in the Strasbourg Xmas market by a local on the security watch list.

Semi-soft Brexit agreement going down. Lame duck Merkel. Military buildup in Ukraine.

US paralyzed with Russophobia. No matter what Trump does (even if nothing) he'll be accused of being Putin's puppet.

Putin / Russia want Brexit, that's why they pushed so hard for it - if it dies and Europe is stronger, they lose.

In other news, France has these moments frequently. It's so out of place for us to demand help for the poor and lower class that it looks like a major uprising to the U.S..

16 (and counting) Trump associates had contacts with Russians during campaign or transition, including at least six who have plead guilty or have been convicted of crimes relating to the matter.

Oil and gas prices are dropping, which is really bad for Russia. Russia is also facing more sanctions and opposition from a united front of the modern world. They have reacted by doing things like sending bombers to Venezuela and Naval blockades. And yet Putin's approval rating is still dropping significantly (which has happened really one other time).

The US isn't paralyzed unless you're the Republican party trying to pass healthcare reform or immigration reform.

In reality, it's not happy times for Putin - I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

+1

Nothing to see here. Keep telling yourself that, when Putin takes another bite out of Ukraine or sinks one of their warships.

.. and who exactly is suffering from Russophobia?

[Trinity]

And that would be on President Mueller?

[dislaxxic]

We're paralyzed by our political debate & uncertainty over Trump-Russia, & our NATO allies won't act without us in the lead.
...& so far, they're not following our lead.

Honest to Gawd, where do you pull this stuff from? "Paralyzed by our political debate"?? What kind of wimp PRESIDENT doesn't act on a situation like this because he's worried about "our political debate"??

Unbelievable. That is some seriously deplorable "opinion" in my opinion.

..

[foreverlax]

and Saltskya, is first Russian national to cooperate!

If she was colludin', they'd charge her with more than FARA, failure to file, & conspiracy to act as an agent of Russia.
...espionage maybe ?

0-6 mos recommended. She's already served 5 mos.

How about ....If she wasn't cooperating, "they'd charge her with more than FARA, failure to file, & conspiracy to act as an agent of Russia.
...espionage maybe ?" My opinion is just as right as yours.

Informed opinion = espionage-lite.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/maria-but ... te-with-us

In July of this year, Butina was arrested and charged on two counts: acting as a covert agent of a foreign government, and conspiring to break federal law by doing so. The specific charge for acting as a foreign agent is colloquially known as Section 951. It’s often confused with the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA), but the two are separate. FARA bars secret foreign lobbying, while DOJ lawyers refer to Section 951 as “espionage-lite.” She has only pleaded guilty to the second count, conspiracy. The defense’s estimated sentence for this conviction, according to the plea deal, is up to six months. She has already spent almost five months in jail.

Thanks. When criminals are picked up, it is not uncommon for additional charges to be filed as the investigation continues. Would you happen to know if the investigation continued?

Ken Dilinian of MSNBC reported -- if she had simply registered under FARA, much of this would be legal.

Pete Williams of MSNBC reported -- it's a far cry from the case the govt originally brought. A lot of backing off by the govt. They've changed their minds about her. Just influence peddling. No indication she had anything to do with election meddling, No suggestion she had anything to do with Russian intelligence.

1) Much does not equal all....much of what OJ did the night of the murders was probably legal.


2) Is there any reason for her to sign a cooperation agreement if she did not do anything?


3) When the Feds cut people loose is there generally a cooperation agreement signed?

Espionage-lite. She was in the US, making contacts & inroads before Trump was even a candidate.
I didn't say she didn't do anything. I pointed out MSNBC's reporting that there's no indication or reason to believe she did anything in collusion with the Trump campaign. I posted reliable MSM news reporting, not my opinion.

Using the same MSM sources -

In her plea deal, Butina admitted that she and “US Person 1,” who is longtime Republican operative Paul Erickson, “agreed and conspired, with a Russian government official,” whose description matches Russian banker and close Putin ally Alexander Torshin, for Butina to “act in the United States under the direction of Russian Official without prior notification to the Attorney General,” ABC News reported.

Under Torshin’s direction, the document said, Butina “sought to establish unofficial lines of communication with Americans having power and influence over U.S. politics.”

According to prosecutors, Erickson “worked with Butina to arrange introductions to U.S. persons having influence in American politics,” including the NRA and the organizers of the National Prayer Breakfast.

In 2015, Butina organized a trip for former NRA presidents and officials to Moscow, where she arranged a meeting for them with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

“We should let them express their gratitude now, we will put pressure on them quietly later,” she wrote to Torshin after the meeting.

“Unrelated to specific presidential campaigns,” Erickson wrote in October 2016, in an email to an acquaintance now in possession of the FBI, “I’ve been involved in securing a VERY private line of communication between the Kremlin and key [unnamed political party] leaders through, of all conduits, the [unnamed gun-rights organization].”


“This is very strong evidence, if not proof, of illegal coordination,” Larry Noble, a former FEC general counsel, told The Trace. “This is the heat of the general election, and the same person is acting as an agent for the NRA and the Trump campaign.”

Yea, nothing at all.....

[old salt]

^^^ US Person 1 = Erickson not Trump. Therefore BFD. She developed a relationship with a nobody.

[old salt]

We're paralyzed by our political debate & uncertainty over Trump-Russia, & our NATO allies won't act without us in the lead.
...& so far, they're not following our lead.

Honest to Gawd, where do you pull this stuff from? "Paralyzed by our political debate"?? What kind of wimp PRESIDENT doesn't act on a situation like this because he's worried about "our political debate"??

Unbelievable. That is some seriously deplorable "opinion" in my opinion.

A smart one, who's not anxious to get out ahead of our EU/NATO allies on a EUropean dispute.

Our EUro allies won't follow until we get over our Russophobia hysteria & join them in a rational, realpolitik policy vis a vis Russia, Ukraine & the Baltics, that is not driven by our petty domestic political score settling, holding our Russia policy hostage.

[cradleandshoot]

We're paralyzed by our political debate & uncertainty over Trump-Russia, & our NATO allies won't act without us in the lead.
...& so far, they're not following our lead.

Honest to Gawd, where do you pull this stuff from? "Paralyzed by our political debate"?? What kind of wimp PRESIDENT doesn't act on a situation like this because he's worried about "our political debate"??

Unbelievable. That is some seriously deplorable "opinion" in my opinion.

..

What kind of wimp PRESIDENT doesn't act on a situation like this because he's worried about "our political debate"??

OMG... I just spent 5 minutes rolling on the floor in hysterical laughter... Dis you just defined one Barack Hussein Obama to a tee. Really Dis... you need a vacation or something like that... are you feeling alright? That might be the most bizarre thing you have written here in a very long time. You sound confused... are you getting your presidents all mixed up? What president made the braggadocious boast drawing that red line in the sand against Syria? What kind of a wimp does that? baby1

[foreverlax]

^^^ US Person 1 = Erickson not Trump. Therefore BFD. She developed a relationship with a nobody.

The entire campaign was staffed with back-benchers...hard to tell who the practice squad was.

Erikson was certainly well known in the al-right circles. He worked for Buchanan, Romney 2x, was a buddy of Andrew Breitbart and Stephen Moore, and of course he has strong ties to the NRA and gun rights activists in Russia.

But you can keep calling this duck a chicken all day long.....

[old salt]

^^^ US Person 1 = Erickson not Trump. Therefore BFD. She developed a relationship with a nobody.

The entire campaign was staffed with back-benchers...hard to tell who the practice squad was.

Erikson was certainly well known in the al-right circles. He worked for Buchanan, Romney 2x, was a buddy of Andrew Breitbart and Stephen Moore, and of course he has strong ties to the NRA and gun rights activists in Russia.

But you can keep calling this duck a chicken all day long.....

OMG. Buchanan's compromised by Russia.

[dislaxxic]

What kind of wimp PRESIDENT doesn't act on a situation like this because he's worried about "our political debate"??

OMG... I just spent 5 minutes rolling on the floor in hysterical laughter... Dis you just defined one Barack Hussein Obama to a tee. Really Dis... you need a vacation or something like that... are you feeling alright? That might be the most bizarre thing you have written here in a very long time. You sound confused... are you getting your presidents all mixed up? What president made the braggadocious boast drawing that red line in the sand against Syria? What kind of a wimp does that? baby1

I'm gonna go easy on Cranky and let others point out the obvious irony that just flew 6 feet over your head here...

..

[a fan]

Putin IS free to do whatever he wants. That's my point.

No-----Trump is free to do whatever he wants, and as usual, you're giving him a full pass because of a bunch of BS excuses as to why he doesn't have free will. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault with you and Trump. Deep State. Media. Rachel freaking Maddow.

What would you have said if dislaxxic had said "Obama can't do what he wants in the Middle East because Sean Hannity and right wing media is being mean to him"?

You would have laughed your *ss off. And yet here you are, hat in hand trying to tell us that Trump "can't" stand up to Putin.

For heaven's sake, that's the biggest criticism from his enemies: that he's soft on Putin because of business interests. And you're trying to use the Russia thing as the reason Trump can't lead our nation.

You are so far down the rabbit hole with Trump, it's pitch black.

And then you try and act as if Trump's enemies will "change their mind" about Trump and his buddy Putin if Mueller doesn't indict him. This is insane. Trump haters will hate him every bit as much no matter what Mueller does. Didn't you learn anything from Obama's treatment?

And is Putin going to stop messing with our elections? No. So what are you talking about here? Just because YOU don't care that Putin is messing with us, doesn't mean the rest of us who do care are Russiaphobes. I have NO CLUE why you care more about Putin having a military base in Syria than you do that Putin is directly attacking our democracy. one requires action, the other a "meh" reacting, and "grow up, who cares?"

I don't care about a Russian base in Syria. Or Crimea. Or the Ukraine. Or the Black Sea. This has ZERO effect on my life. But when Putin is searching and probing Republicans and Democrats, looking for weaknesses and useful idiots, and actively hacking our political system? Now I care. For the life of me, I don't understand why you think that our democracy isn't important, but a Sea that precisely zero Americans can find on a map is.

The US, EU & NATO encouraged Ukraine to give up their nucs & to prepare for NATO & EU membership, then helped them stage 2 successful revolutions against pro-Russian elected governments.

The US-EU-NATO pushed Ukraine to this point. Now that Putin pushes back, we turn our backs on them.
I disagreed with doing all that, but we did it. We can't turn away now.

Right. Who's in charge of facing Putin? That's right. Trump. Start hitting him with the same vigor you hit Obama.

he more Putin takes, without meaningful pushback, the more he'll continue to take.
We're paralyzed by our political debate & uncertainty over Trump-Russia, & our NATO allies won't act without us in the lead.
...& so far, they're not following our lead.

Bullcookies. Who is in charge of leadership in America? Rachel Maddow? Brooklyn? Nope. It's your man Trump.

At SOME point, you're going to have to criticize his actions, right? That the reason NATO isn't following Trump's lead is that he's a *hitty leader, and they think he's a d*ck. Elections have consequences, and so do the words that come out of Trump's mouth.

But instead of blaming him for this, you spend all your time searching for someone else to blame for Trump's F ups. It's been two years, my friend. You can criticize Trump without losing points around here.

[Typical Lax Dad]

^^^ US Person 1 = Erickson not Trump. Therefore BFD. She developed a relationship with a nobody.

The entire campaign was staffed with back-benchers...hard to tell who the practice squad was.

Erikson was certainly well known in the al-right circles. He worked for Buchanan, Romney 2x, was a buddy of Andrew Breitbart and Stephen Moore, and of course he has strong ties to the NRA and gun rights activists in Russia.

But you can keep calling this duck a chicken all day long.....

OMG. Buchanan's compromised by Russia.

[old salt]

Andrea Mitchell called Butina " an unregistered agent, not a spy".

I look forward to the laughing jackass video when she walks for time served. ..

[Typical Lax Dad]

Andrea Mitchell called Butina " an unregistered agent, not a spy".

I look forward to the laughing jackass video when she walks for time served. ..

In this country you are not guilty until convicted! Ask OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony!

[old salt]

Putin IS free to do whatever he wants. That's my point.

No-----Trump is free to do whatever he wants, and as usual, you're giving him a full pass because of a bunch of BS excuses as to why he doesn't have free will. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault with you and Trump. Deep State. Media. Rachel freaking Maddow.

What would you have said if dislaxxic had said "Obama can't do what he wants in the Middle East because Sean Hannity and right wing media is being mean to him"?

You would have laughed your *ss off. And yet here you are, hat in hand trying to tell us that Trump "can't" stand up to Putin.

For heaven's sake, that's the biggest criticism from his enemies: that he's soft on Putin because of business interests. And you're trying to use the Russia thing as the reason Trump can't lead our nation.

You are so far down the rabbit hole with Trump, it's pitch black.

And then you try and act as if Trump's enemies will "change their mind" about Trump and his buddy Putin if Mueller doesn't indict him. This is insane. Trump haters will hate him every bit as much no matter what Mueller does. Didn't you learn anything from Obama's treatment?

And is Putin going to stop messing with our elections? No. So what are you talking about here? Just because YOU don't care that Putin is messing with us, doesn't mean the rest of us who do care are Russiaphobes. I have NO CLUE why you care more about Putin having a military base in Syria than you do that Putin is directly attacking our democracy. one requires action, the other a "meh" reacting, and "grow up, who cares?"

I don't care about a Russian base in Syria. Or Crimea. Or the Ukraine. Or the Black Sea. This has ZERO effect on my life. But when Putin is searching and probing Republicans and Democrats, looking for weaknesses and useful idiots, and actively hacking our political system? Now I care. For the life of me, I don't understand why you think that our democracy isn't important, but a Sea that precisely zero Americans can find on a map is.

The US, EU & NATO encouraged Ukraine to give up their nucs & to prepare for NATO & EU membership, then helped them stage 2 successful revolutions against pro-Russian elected governments.

The US-EU-NATO pushed Ukraine to this point. Now that Putin pushes back, we turn our backs on them.
I disagreed with doing all that, but we did it. We can't turn away now.

Right. Who's in charge of facing Putin? That's right. Trump. Start hitting him with the same vigor you hit Obama.

he more Putin takes, without meaningful pushback, the more he'll continue to take.
We're paralyzed by our political debate & uncertainty over Trump-Russia, & our NATO allies won't act without us in the lead.
...& so far, they're not following our lead.

Bullcookies. Who is in charge of leadership in America? Rachel Maddow? Brooklyn? Nope. It's your man Trump.

At SOME point, you're going to have to criticize his actions, right? That the reason NATO isn't following Trump's lead is that he's a *hitty leader, and they think he's a d*ck. Elections have consequences, and so do the words that come out of Trump's mouth.

But instead of blaming him for this, you spend all your time searching for someone else to blame for Trump's F ups. It's been two years, my friend. You can criticize Trump without losing points around here.

Blah, blah, blah. Do you think Trump should get out ahead of our EU-NATO allies in responding to what Putin does in EUrope ?
Drag our NATO allies into a potential conflict they want nothing to do with ?

A simple Yes or No, please.

Retroactive crybaby Obama stories are just diversions.
Obama wasn't under the scrutiny of a Special Prosecutor for every action he took regarding relations with Russia.

[foreverlax]

Correct...Obama didn't lie 10x per day.

[dislaxxic]

Blah, blah, blah. Do you think Trump should get out ahead of our EU-NATO allies in responding to what Putin does in EUrope ?
Drag our NATO allies into a potential conflict they want nothing to do with ?

Speaking of blah, blah, blah...I'm disappointed Salty didn't use his favorite catch-word..."Euroburghers"



Burgher Meister Meister Burgher! Good thing for him, the holiday film should be running shortly...

..