Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[RedFromMI]

(omitted)

Cradle - New knowledge is discovered every day and the record is often corrected quite soon after. As an example, it was acknowledged publicly some time after Magellan circumnavigated the globe in 1519 that the world was a sphere and not flat. In fact, the king of Spain issued him a Coat of Arms whose motto was Primus circumdedisti me (in Latin, "You went around me first").

So, it seems to me, that there is no issue with promptly correcting things that are subsequently discovered to be incorrect, wrong or insensitive at the time they are discovered to be so. In fact, the longer it takes to do so the worse the potential adverse reaction IMHO.

Actually - the knowledge that the world was a sphere is thousands of years old, at least among educated people. Pretty easy to argue from lunar eclipses from the shape of the Earth's shadow on the Moon.

Erastosthenes in around 300 BCE actually used geometry and solar shadows to estimate the circumference of the world, and depending on how you translate the Roman measurement of stadia into modern measures was anywhere from a couple of percent to ten percent or so off the correct value. Not bad at all given no real technology (the ability to build a deep well, and tall obelisks).

Given that there was general knowledge about the rough size of the Earth, what Columbus' genius was in convincing his financiers that he had done a better job of measuring the same thing (getting a dramatically smaller value) and therefore the journey to India became feasible using the ship technology of the day.

Got lucky that there was something in between.

BTW, I teach this every time I have an Astronomy class (from 1992 to present).

[wgdsr]

All the garages at the track have that kind of a pull. How did they miss it all this time? Amazing.

Based on the FBI report, it is clear that the rope was there since October. It is also clear that the garage pull was fashioned as a noose.

What is not clear (to me anyway) is whether all or at least multiple garages at that track are fashioned as nooses.

If it is all of them - the whole thing is just dumb. And you really have to wonder why no-one said - "hey Bubba, all the pulls are nooses."

No one did, that means either everyone was in on it, or they are NOT all nooses.

If they aren't all nooses it leads to the question - Why was Bubba assigned that particular stall?

here's a 2017 from the talladega playoff? truck race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN0ad_nS2Hw
@ 2.58 to 3.05 there are 2 garages next to each other with loops, and another @ 3.15- 3.40. not sure if you can see or call them nooses.
several other garages just had knots. over time, they probably could change just based on who was using them for a race, if someone in the crew is familiar with knots and had a preference.
if someone said a guy fashioning a noose, down in the deep south, can be considered questionable even in the absence of further evidence, they'd probably have a point.

[6ftstick]

All the garages at the track have that kind of a pull. How did they miss it all this time? Amazing.

Based on the FBI report, it is clear that the rope was there since October. It is also clear that the garage pull was fashioned as a noose.

What is not clear (to me anyway) is whether all or at least multiple garages at that track are fashioned as nooses.

If it is all of them - the whole thing is just dumb. And you really have to wonder why no-one said - "hey Bubba, all the pulls are nooses."

No one did, that means either everyone was in on it, or they are NOT all nooses.

If they aren't all nooses it leads to the question - Why was Bubba assigned that particular stall?

here's a 2017 from the talladega playoff? truck race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN0ad_nS2Hw
@ 2.58 to 3.05 there are 2 garages next to each other with loops, and another @ 3.15- 3.40. not sure if you can see or call them nooses.
several other garages just had knots. over time, they probably could change just based on who was using them for a race, if someone in the crew is familiar with knots and had a preference.
if someone said a guy fashioning a noose, down in the deep south, can be considered questionable even in the absence of further evidence, they'd probably have a point.

Jessie Smollet at Nascar. A career move?

[Typical Lax Dad]

All the garages at the track have that kind of a pull. How did they miss it all this time? Amazing.

Based on the FBI report, it is clear that the rope was there since October. It is also clear that the garage pull was fashioned as a noose.

What is not clear (to me anyway) is whether all or at least multiple garages at that track are fashioned as nooses.

If it is all of them - the whole thing is just dumb. And you really have to wonder why no-one said - "hey Bubba, all the pulls are nooses."

No one did, that means either everyone was in on it, or they are NOT all nooses.

If they aren't all nooses it leads to the question - Why was Bubba assigned that particular stall?

Or why would someone find it humorous to fashion a noose in the first place? Just old boys having fun. Hell everyone fashions nooses in their spare time.

[kramerica.inc]

All the garages at the track have that kind of a pull. How did they miss it all this time? Amazing.

Based on the FBI report, it is clear that the rope was there since October. It is also clear that the garage pull was fashioned as a noose.

What is not clear (to me anyway) is whether all or at least multiple garages at that track are fashioned as nooses.

If it is all of them - the whole thing is just dumb. And you really have to wonder why no-one said - "hey Bubba, all the pulls are nooses."

No one did, that means either everyone was in on it, or they are NOT all nooses.

If they aren't all nooses it leads to the question - Why was Bubba assigned that particular stall?

here's a 2017 from the talladega playoff? truck race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN0ad_nS2Hw
@ 2.58 to 3.05 there are 2 garages next to each other with loops, and another @ 3.15- 3.40. not sure if you can see or call them nooses.
several other garages just had knots. over time, they probably could change just based on who was using them for a race, if someone in the crew is familiar with knots and had a preference.
if someone said a guy fashioning a noose, down in the deep south, can be considered questionable even in the absence of further evidence, they'd probably have a point.

Jessie Smollet at Nascar. A career move?

Except Bubba didn't report it.

[Typical Lax Dad]

All the garages at the track have that kind of a pull. How did they miss it all this time? Amazing.

Based on the FBI report, it is clear that the rope was there since October. It is also clear that the garage pull was fashioned as a noose.

What is not clear (to me anyway) is whether all or at least multiple garages at that track are fashioned as nooses.

If it is all of them - the whole thing is just dumb. And you really have to wonder why no-one said - "hey Bubba, all the pulls are nooses."

No one did, that means either everyone was in on it, or they are NOT all nooses.

If they aren't all nooses it leads to the question - Why was Bubba assigned that particular stall?

here's a 2017 from the talladega playoff? truck race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN0ad_nS2Hw
@ 2.58 to 3.05 there are 2 garages next to each other with loops, and another @ 3.15- 3.40. not sure if you can see or call them nooses.
several other garages just had knots. over time, they probably could change just based on who was using them for a race, if someone in the crew is familiar with knots and had a preference.
if someone said a guy fashioning a noose, down in the deep south, can be considered questionable even in the absence of further evidence, they'd probably have a point.

If anyone was going to find hard evidence to inject into a discussion I knew it would be you! That’s quite a find!

[njbill]

All the garages at the track have that kind of a pull. How did they miss it all this time? Amazing.

Based on the FBI report, it is clear that the rope was there since October. It is also clear that the garage pull was fashioned as a noose.

What is not clear (to me anyway) is whether all or at least multiple garages at that track are fashioned as nooses.

If it is all of them - the whole thing is just dumb. And you really have to wonder why no-one said - "hey Bubba, all the pulls are nooses."

No one did, that means either everyone was in on it, or they are NOT all nooses.

If they aren't all nooses it leads to the question - Why was Bubba assigned that particular stall?

here's a 2017 from the talladega playoff? truck race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN0ad_nS2Hw
@ 2.58 to 3.05 there are 2 garages next to each other with loops, and another @ 3.15- 3.40. not sure if you can see or call them nooses.
several other garages just had knots. over time, they probably could change just based on who was using them for a race, if someone in the crew is familiar with knots and had a preference.
if someone said a guy fashioning a noose, down in the deep south, can be considered questionable even in the absence of further evidence, they'd probably have a point.

If anyone was going to find hard evidence to inject into a discussion I knew it would be you! That’s quite a find!

Hard to really tell from that video exactly what the ends of most of the ropes look like. One looks like a loop, but clearly not a noose.

Regardless, after the noose was found in Wallace’s garage, NASCAR looked at all garage areas at all 29 tracks, a total of 1684 garage stalls. Only 11 had pulldown ropes tied in knots. The one in Wallace’s garage was the only one fashioned in a noose.

The above is in the article kismet linked to. Also in this ESPN article.

https://apple.news/AfvmovD3eTzufWzc6WxDfNQ

The noose constitutes a hate crime. Since it had been there since at least last October, the FBI couldn’t determine the identity of the guilty party. So there was no one to charge.

It is perplexing to me why the initial reports after the FBI investigation said no noose was found, given that one clearly was. Even the grand dragon of the Ku Klux Klan would have to admit that is a noose.

[Typical Lax Dad]

All the garages at the track have that kind of a pull. How did they miss it all this time? Amazing.

Based on the FBI report, it is clear that the rope was there since October. It is also clear that the garage pull was fashioned as a noose.

What is not clear (to me anyway) is whether all or at least multiple garages at that track are fashioned as nooses.

If it is all of them - the whole thing is just dumb. And you really have to wonder why no-one said - "hey Bubba, all the pulls are nooses."

No one did, that means either everyone was in on it, or they are NOT all nooses.

If they aren't all nooses it leads to the question - Why was Bubba assigned that particular stall?

here's a 2017 from the talladega playoff? truck race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN0ad_nS2Hw
@ 2.58 to 3.05 there are 2 garages next to each other with loops, and another @ 3.15- 3.40. not sure if you can see or call them nooses.
several other garages just had knots. over time, they probably could change just based on who was using them for a race, if someone in the crew is familiar with knots and had a preference.
if someone said a guy fashioning a noose, down in the deep south, can be considered questionable even in the absence of further evidence, they'd probably have a point.

If anyone was going to find hard evidence to inject into a discussion I knew it would be you! That’s quite a find!

Hard to really tell from that video exactly what the ends of the ropes looked like.

Regardless, after the noose was found in Wallace’s garage, NASCAR looked at all garage areas at all 29 tracks, a total of 1684 garage stalls. Only 11 had pulldown ropes tied in knots. The one in Wallace’s garage was the only one fashioned in a noose.

The above is in the article kismet linked to. Also in this ESPN article.

https://apple.news/AfvmovD3eTzufWzc6WxDfNQ

The noose constitutes a hate crime. Since it had been there since at least last October, the FBI couldn’t determine the identity of the guilty party. So there was no one to charge.

It is perplexing to me why the initial reports after the FBI investigation said no noose was found, given that one clearly was. Even the grand dragon of the Ku Klux Klan would have to admit that is a noose.

It was always considered a noose. Our crack gumshoe was the first to report the finding:

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=2024&p=160428&hilit=Bubba#p160428

[njbill]

Initial reports I saw said the FBI concluded it wasn’t a noose, but simply a pull down rope for a garage door. Photos were from a distance which made it hard to tell. It’s important that this new, close up photo has now been publicized.

Glad to see our crack gumshoe agreed it was a noose.

[Typical Lax Dad]

These guys’ first amendment rights have been violated!

https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/25/north-ca ... ington-pd/

[Peter Brown]

Fraudulent NYT 1619 Project founder's letter to editor in college reposted. I am sure the local Dems must enjoy being in bed with these folks:

Nikole Hannah-Jones, the lead essayist on New York Times Magazine’s 1619 Project, wrote a letter to the editor in Notre Dame’s The Observer stating that “the white race is the biggest murderer, rapist, pillager, and thief of the modern world.”

https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/25/in ... an-hitler/

This is your media. Have fun!

[jhu72]

Peanut Butters is just being a fear merchant trying to whip up white resentment (like the good ole days) and he is being no more successful than his fearless leader. His defense is don't give an inch because "the other" will take it all. This has been the defense for his type forever and it has worked out so well for all concerned. He whines when the left reacts to his behavior.

Jefferson, Washington and Jesus are all safe, even with their imperfections. There are some like Key (who was a well known racist) that will require serious consideration - rightly so. Does the anthem itself sans third verse have to go? That is very far from clear. Of course some will argue it must go, but I am pretty certain a vast majority will argue otherwise. MDlax is 100% correct - public honorifics for traitors and racists (with no saving grace) - time is up. Such discussions are long past due.

So as not to confuse folks like Peanut Butters - I am a son of Virginia and the South. I am not even a little concerned that confederate soldiers, the confederacy itself, its leadership or the cause are going to be written out of history - the common repeated history will just become more factual - fact based. The south has been slowly, daily, rewriting history since the day after Appomattox. They have successfully taken traitors, losers, and turned them into heroes in the eyes of some.

jefferson didn't have a good last week.
googled "jefferson statue".
https://www.komu.com/news/faculty-group ... son-statue
https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news ... aa787.html
https://patch.com/georgia/decatur/thoma ... ut-storage
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/202 ... chool.html
https://www.newsday.com/long-island/edu ... 1.46045690
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/n ... l/2471910/
w&m isn't so sure after 2 attempts, to deface and pull down the statue:
http://flathatnews.com/2020/06/24/as-st ... on-statue/
op ed's are rolling in:
https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2020/0 ... o-letters/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/24/am ... jefferson/

maybe there are 200? 500? more? jefferson statues around. including at the memorial. maybe that's it, the rest are all safe if they're still standing. that would seem to be a hard left from the trend of recent days, but ya never know.

… Jefferson will be just fine. At some point the consensus is made clear. Right now you have folks grinding their axes in the street with little to no leadership in some cases. Jefferson is an international symbol. He belongs to the democracy loving world, not just America. This burns itself out once movement leadership across the board understands what they are doing is stupid. Risking progress made. The same rules apply to the protesters as apply to the police. They can only get away with what the nation's majority thinks is reasonable.

[ggait]

It was a garage door pull rope that had a noose fashioned on it.

The original FBI statement clearly said it was a noose -- which it was. But the FBI said no crime related to Bubba Wallace. Because the noose (yes it was a noose) had been there for many months, long before Wallace had been assigned that garage.

So it was some a-hole redneck doing something offensive a while back.

Now if I'm just trying to pull a garage door down, I would want something that would function as a solid handle to pull on. A loop would work (perhaps using a square or bowline knot). A fist sized knot (like you'd have on a climbing rope) would work too.

No reason, however, to pick a slip knot for that task. Unless, I guess, if you were an a-hole racist.

Now waiting for Salty's post about how it wasn't a hangman's noose. Because those have 13 loops, right?

So we're all just lib turd snow flakes. And the cop's knee had nothing to do with it.

[Peter Brown]

Crazy Democrats on film:

https://twitter.com/henryrodgersdc/stat ... 35969?s=20

This Democrat needs a chardonnay, coloring book, and a cool bed in the local mental ward.

Maybe some Fanlax Dems can help her out?!??! She seems, ummm, unstable.

Leftism rots the brain.

[Typical Lax Dad]

It was a garage door pull rope that had a noose fashioned on it.

The original FBI statement clearly said it was a noose -- which it was. But the FBI said no crime related to Bubba Wallace. Because the noose (yes it was a noose) had been there for many months, long before Wallace had been assigned that garage.

So it was some a-hole redneck doing something offensive a while back.

Now if I'm just trying to pull a garage door down, I would want something that would function as a solid handle to pull on. A loop would work (perhaps using a square or bowline knot). A fist sized knot (like you'd have on a climbing rope) would work too.

No reason, however, to pick a slip knot for that task. Unless, I guess, if you were an a-hole racist.

Now waiting for Salty's post about how it wasn't a hangman's noose. Because those have 13 loops, right?

So we're all just lib turd snow flakes. And the cop's knee had nothing to do with it.

And it ain't illegal to fashion a garage pull!

[cradleandshoot]

(omitted)

Cradle - New knowledge is discovered every day and the record is often corrected quite soon after. As an example, it was acknowledged publicly some time after Magellan circumnavigated the globe in 1519 that the world was a sphere and not flat. In fact, the king of Spain issued him a Coat of Arms whose motto was Primus circumdedisti me (in Latin, "You went around me first").

So, it seems to me, that there is no issue with promptly correcting things that are subsequently discovered to be incorrect, wrong or insensitive at the time they are discovered to be so. In fact, the longer it takes to do so the worse the potential adverse reaction IMHO.

Actually - the knowledge that the world was a sphere is thousands of years old, at least among educated people. Pretty easy to argue from lunar eclipses from the shape of the Earth's shadow on the Moon.

Erastosthenes in around 300 BCE actually used geometry and solar shadows to estimate the circumference of the world, and depending on how you translate the Roman measurement of stadia into modern measures was anywhere from a couple of percent to ten percent or so off the correct value. Not bad at all given no real technology (the ability to build a deep well, and tall obelisks).

Given that there was general knowledge about the rough size of the Earth, what Columbus' genius was in convincing his financiers that he had done a better job of measuring the same thing (getting a dramatically smaller value) and therefore the journey to India became feasible using the ship technology of the day.

Got lucky that there was something in between.

BTW, I teach this every time I have an Astronomy class (from 1992 to present).

That is some great knowledge you are imparting on us red. When my kids were young we were camping in Alleghany State Park. They had a late night astronomy lesson that met in the middle of a big old field just after sunset. Once it started getting really dark it was like the curtain was raised up on the show. All of a sudden like magic the sky came alive with all of the little lanterns twinkling on and off in the night sky. The lady in charge explained everything that we were seeing. The coolest thing was watching one object that looked like a star but was moving across the sky in a strait line. They were satellites and they were so cool to watch. You will never see that show living in the city. When you are way out in the middle of nowhere... what a show in the night sky.

[Typical Lax Dad]

(omitted)

Cradle - New knowledge is discovered every day and the record is often corrected quite soon after. As an example, it was acknowledged publicly some time after Magellan circumnavigated the globe in 1519 that the world was a sphere and not flat. In fact, the king of Spain issued him a Coat of Arms whose motto was Primus circumdedisti me (in Latin, "You went around me first").

So, it seems to me, that there is no issue with promptly correcting things that are subsequently discovered to be incorrect, wrong or insensitive at the time they are discovered to be so. In fact, the longer it takes to do so the worse the potential adverse reaction IMHO.

Actually - the knowledge that the world was a sphere is thousands of years old, at least among educated people. Pretty easy to argue from lunar eclipses from the shape of the Earth's shadow on the Moon.

Erastosthenes in around 300 BCE actually used geometry and solar shadows to estimate the circumference of the world, and depending on how you translate the Roman measurement of stadia into modern measures was anywhere from a couple of percent to ten percent or so off the correct value. Not bad at all given no real technology (the ability to build a deep well, and tall obelisks).

Given that there was general knowledge about the rough size of the Earth, what Columbus' genius was in convincing his financiers that he had done a better job of measuring the same thing (getting a dramatically smaller value) and therefore the journey to India became feasible using the ship technology of the day.

Got lucky that there was something in between.

BTW, I teach this every time I have an Astronomy class (from 1992 to present).

Some more history:

[old salt]

The NASCAR noose was a garage door pull rope that had been in that garage since last OCT. ..

https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/23/bubba-wa ... ay-nascar/

How many garage door pulls have you seen that look like this? A simple loop would have accomplished the purpose of raising the door - that's what 99% of the people in this country would have done to deal with the problem

IMHO they were correct to call the authorities - at that time they had no way of knowing how long it had been there and whether it was directed at them or not.

Why didn't NASCAR call the FBI in Oct 19 when that "noose" was hanging over the Menard team's car ?
Was that the only garage with a knot like that on the garage door pull rope ?
That knot was a way to create a pull loop at the proper height without the excess rope tail being in the way.
Consult a Boy Scout or Bosun's Mate about how to tie a knot for the task at hand.

[Kismet]

(omitted)

Cradle - New knowledge is discovered every day and the record is often corrected quite soon after. As an example, it was acknowledged publicly some time after Magellan circumnavigated the globe in 1519 that the world was a sphere and not flat. In fact, the king of Spain issued him a Coat of Arms whose motto was Primus circumdedisti me (in Latin, "You went around me first").

So, it seems to me, that there is no issue with promptly correcting things that are subsequently discovered to be incorrect, wrong or insensitive at the time they are discovered to be so. In fact, the longer it takes to do so the worse the potential adverse reaction IMHO.

Actually - the knowledge that the world was a sphere is thousands of years old, at least among educated people. Pretty easy to argue from lunar eclipses from the shape of the Earth's shadow on the Moon.

Erastosthenes in around 300 BCE actually used geometry and solar shadows to estimate the circumference of the world, and depending on how you translate the Roman measurement of stadia into modern measures was anywhere from a couple of percent to ten percent or so off the correct value. Not bad at all given no real technology (the ability to build a deep well, and tall obelisks).

Given that there was general knowledge about the rough size of the Earth, what Columbus' genius was in convincing his financiers that he had done a better job of measuring the same thing (getting a dramatically smaller value) and therefore the journey to India became feasible using the ship technology of the day.

Got lucky that there was something in between.

BTW, I teach this every time I have an Astronomy class (from 1992 to present).

That is some great knowledge you are imparting on us red. When my kids were young we were camping in Alleghany State Park. They had a late night astronomy lesson that met in the middle of a big old field just after sunset. Once it started getting really dark it was like the curtain was raised up on the show. All of a sudden like magic the sky came alive with all of the little lanterns twinkling on and off in the night sky. The lady in charge explained everything that we were seeing. The coolest thing was watching one object that looked like a star but was moving across the sky in a strait line. They were satellites and they were so cool to watch. You will never see that show living in the city. When you are way out in the middle of nowhere... what a show in the night sky.

Thx from me too red - gratified that you responded to my post with even more relevant historical information.

Ditto for me as well Red - thx for taking my initial post to the next level.
Cradle regarding astronomy - Fortunately, I had the opportunity to spend time in northern areas near the Canadian border and experienced aurora borealis in real time. If you ever have the chance to do this, jump on it as it is one of the most incredible visually striking demonstrations of Mother Nature in action on the planet - while you are it if you are ever in NYC check on the Hayden Planetarium/Rose Center - that's pretty cool as well.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The NASCAR noose was a garage door pull rope that had been in that garage since last OCT. ..

https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/23/bubba-wa ... ay-nascar/

How many garage door pulls have you seen that look like this? A simple loop would have accomplished the purpose of raising the door - that's what 99% of the people in this country would have done to deal with the problem

IMHO they were correct to call the authorities - at that time they had no way of knowing how long it had been there and whether it was directed at them or not.

Why didn't NASCAR call the FBI in Oct 19 when that "noose" was hanging over the Menard team's car ?
Was that the only garage with a knot like that on the garage door pull rope ?
That knot was a way to create a pull loop at the proper height without the excess rope tail being in the way.
Consult a Boy Scout or Bosun's Mate about how to tie a knot for the task at hand.

Would not have expected anything less from you Old Friend. How is the race war progressing today?