The Nation's Financial Condition

[a fan]

Farming class, too.

Colorado's cold snap wiped out the entire Peach crop for this year.

That said, the farmers we work with will get checks from Uncle Sam. We should be able to squeak out 25,000 lbs of peaches we need for our cordials. Finger's crossed.

Anyone here want to lecture me again about how handouts and socialism is bad in America?

In response to a request for a disaster designation submitted by Colorado to the USDA due to damage and losses to fruit crops caused by a multi-day freeze in April, 2020, U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Sonny Perdue has designated Delta and Mesa Counties as primary natural disaster areas.


https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/agmain ... udbLyRqkbM

[Brooklyn]

https://www.usdebtclock.org/


This used to be big news in the old LP forum when Obama was in the White House. Gee, why have right wingers suddenly decided that this news was no longer worthy of our attention (or theirs)?

[Peter Brown]

https://www.usdebtclock.org/


This used to be big news in the old LP forum when Obama was in the White House. Gee, why have right wingers suddenly decided that this news was no longer worthy of our attention (or theirs)?

It's an issue to me.

[Brooklyn]

It's an issue to me.

Wonderment of the world! Am surprised to know.

OK, so let's see you say BLAME TRUMP like the forum delusional right wing used to say about Obama.

[a fan]

https://www.usdebtclock.org/


This used to be big news in the old LP forum when Obama was in the White House. Gee, why have right wingers suddenly decided that this news was no longer worthy of our attention (or theirs)?

It's an issue to me.

It most certainly isn't. You've been cheering for Trump's tax cuts, and cheering the economy. Where do you think that money comes from?

[Peter Brown]

https://www.usdebtclock.org/


This used to be big news in the old LP forum when Obama was in the White House. Gee, why have right wingers suddenly decided that this news was no longer worthy of our attention (or theirs)?

It's an issue to me.

It most certainly isn't. You've been cheering for Trump's tax cuts, and cheering the economy. Where do you think that money comes from?

‘Where does the money come’ from that I earn? My customers. Or are you suggesting my earnings aren’t mine but rather the government’s?

[a fan]

Where does the money come’ from that I earn? My customers. Or are you suggesting my earnings aren’t mine but rather the government’s?

You're a Republican, alright. You think that Trump and Congress borrowing $6 trillion and pumping it through the economy...is an irrelevant footnote. Why did Trump do that if it doesn't affect the economy?

[Peter Brown]

Where does the money come’ from that I earn? My customers. Or are you suggesting my earnings aren’t mine but rather the government’s?

You're a Republican, alright. You think that Trump and Congress borrowing $6 trillion and pumping it through the economy...is an irrelevant footnote. Why did Trump do that if it doesn't affect the economy?

Macro is above my pay grade, boss. Sorry. I don't pretend to understand it.

I do know that you should have little to no debt. I once suggested that the US government might be forced to default...not that I want it to, but because I don't know a way out unless you want to sell every asset we have (and I think it was you who said we don't have enough assets). Now, you'd think the dollar would crater as a result of printing so much, but I gather that currency valuations are more about relative strength rather than organic strength.

In any event, I invest in my company and in fund managers. if worse came to worse, we have no debt so I am content to ride out any storm for a while. And even if Biden wins, that will not make me distraught. I'd be seriously bummed if he had Kamala along for the ride, but such is life. The SCOTUS continues to demonstrate every single day that one thing this country absolutely positively needs is 'conservative' judges. The libs on the court are total birdbrains who vote strictly according to politics and have zero shame doing so.

[wgdsr]

Where does the money come’ from that I earn? My customers. Or are you suggesting my earnings aren’t mine but rather the government’s?

You're a Republican, alright. You think that Trump and Congress borrowing $6 trillion and pumping it through the economy...is an irrelevant footnote. Why did Trump do that if it doesn't affect the economy?

i don't think anyone thinks that.
this is a relative argument, and you know it. green new deal is est additional $50-90 trill over 10 years. that's the first estimate. everyone hasn't gotten their hand in the pie yet. and we all know how those early spending estimates tend to be on the low side, going 10 years out. the acceleration of this kind of spending becoming a groundswell in a minute is striking. and i'm almost not really surprised by anything anymore. that $1.5 - 1.9 trillion tax cut over 10 years sounds almost quaint.

[CU88]

Where does the money come’ from that I earn? My customers. Or are you suggesting my earnings aren’t mine but rather the government’s?

You're a Republican, alright. You think that Trump and Congress borrowing $6 trillion and pumping it through the economy...is an irrelevant footnote. Why did Trump do that if it doesn't affect the economy?

i don't think anyone thinks that.

You are wrong, quite a few poster there think that.

[a fan]

Where does the money come’ from that I earn? My customers. Or are you suggesting my earnings aren’t mine but rather the government’s?

You're a Republican, alright. You think that Trump and Congress borrowing $6 trillion and pumping it through the economy...is an irrelevant footnote. Why did Trump do that if it doesn't affect the economy?

i don't think anyone thinks that.

Who said this: "deficits don't matter"?

And you must not listen to CNBC much. The ENTIRE Republican sales pitch is that the Trump tax cuts and deregulation (snicker) is why the economy is booming. Same sales pitch since the Reagan era (which you and I discussed a few months ago). Result? Millions of voters like Pete Brown are convinced that the fact that Trump blew the lid off of the sequester and borrowed trillions.... has nothing to do with why the economy did well in Trump's first three years. This is laughable, of course.

The Tea Party is gone because Republican leaders in flyover States know full well that if you pull that borrowed spending? Their home States will slip into an immediate recession...and they won't get reelected. So the government gets bigger and bigger. And Republican voters ignore this, because they don't want to hear why their business is doing well. See: Pete Brown, pretending he doesn't understand what's going on.

So, nope. You didn't build that. Sorry, mate.

this is a relative argument, and you know it.

It's not even remotely relative. When you borrow money, and pump it through the economy, it has a massive stimulus effect. You can peg it to spending bills.

Picture, for example, what the economy and the stock market would look like without the Covid bailouts...borrowed money, pumped through the economy. And yet Republicans have been selling Free Market nonsense for 50 years. It's an economic theory that doesn't work. I wish it did. It doesn't.

And this borrowed Covid spending, of course, ignores that Trump signed four bills totaling just short of $4 Trillion in new---new----spending over ten years. The bulk of it happening immediately. And then slashed corporate taxes, meaning we're going to hit just short of a cool Trillion in just payments on interest when the dust settles.


Picture what the economy would look like if Congress passed a balanced budget was put into place effective immediately.

Great Depression. That's what we'd get. And I promise you that 90% of voters....and 99.9% of Republican voters, don't understand that.

green new deal is est additional $50-90 trill over 10 years. that's the first estimate. everyone hasn't gotten their hand in the pie yet.

Completely and entirely irrelevant. I'm talking about the economic effects of borrowing right now, looking at bills that actually passed.

[a fan]

Where does the money come’ from that I earn? My customers. Or are you suggesting my earnings aren’t mine but rather the government’s?

You're a Republican, alright. You think that Trump and Congress borrowing $6 trillion and pumping it through the economy...is an irrelevant footnote. Why did Trump do that if it doesn't affect the economy?

i don't think anyone thinks that.

You are wrong, quite a few posters here think that.

+1,000. You can ask them. I have.

[wgdsr]

Where does the money come’ from that I earn? My customers. Or are you suggesting my earnings aren’t mine but rather the government’s?

You're a Republican, alright. You think that Trump and Congress borrowing $6 trillion and pumping it through the economy...is an irrelevant footnote. Why did Trump do that if it doesn't affect the economy?

i don't think anyone thinks that.

Who said this: "deficits don't matter"?

And you must not listen to CNBC much. The ENTIRE Republican sales pitch is that the Trump tax cuts and deregulation (snicker) is why the economy is booming. Same sales pitch since the Reagan era (which you and I discussed a few months ago). Result? Millions of voters like Pete Brown are convinced that the fact that Trump blew the lid off of the sequester and borrowed trillions.... has nothing to do with why the economy did well in Trump's first three years. This is laughable, of course.

The Tea Party is gone because Republican leaders in flyover States know full well that if you pull that borrowed spending? Their home States will slip into an immediate recession...and they won't get reelected. So the government gets bigger and bigger. And Republican voters ignore this, because they don't want to hear why their business is doing well. See: Pete Brown, pretending he doesn't understand what's going on.

So, nope. You didn't build that. Sorry, mate.

this is a relative argument, and you know it.

It's not even remotely relative. When you borrow money, and pump it through the economy, it has a massive stimulus effect. You can peg it to spending bills.

Picture, for example, what the economy and the stock market would look like without the Covid bailouts...borrowed money, pumped through the economy. And yet Republicans have been selling Free Market nonsense for 50 years. It's an economic theory that doesn't work. I wish it did. It doesn't.

And this borrowed Covid spending, of course, ignores that Trump signed four bills totaling just short of $4 Trillion in new---new----spending over ten years. The bulk of it happening immediately. And then slashed corporate taxes, meaning we're going to hit just short of a cool Trillion in just payments on interest when the dust settles.

Picture what the economy would look like if Congress passed a balanced budget was put into place effective immediately.

Great Depression. That's what we'd get. And I promise you that 90% of voters....and 99.9% of Republican voters, don't understand that.

green new deal is est additional $50-90 trill over 10 years. that's the first estimate. everyone hasn't gotten their hand in the pie yet.

Completely and entirely irrelevant. I'm talking about the economic effects of borrowing right now, looking at bills that actually passed.

ftr, i was commenting on this "You think that Trump and Congress borrowing $6 trillion and pumping it through the economy...is an irrelevant footnote. "

not this " Why did Trump do that if it doesn't affect the economy?"

nextly, up in arms on "tax cuts" that the world is... how many people do you think would answer the question correctly whether we have brought in more revenue each and every year, or less? the problem isn't individuals and what percentage they are paying, it's that corporations get away with paying almost nothing outside of payroll, etc. almost zero income tax. we reward them with the ability to use separate accounting protocols to inflate their business worth. and make them not pay taxes on that. it's really amazing. did trump put that tax code in? no. did a republican? i don't know, but whatever party it was, they've gotten a whole lot of help since and it has been happening for a very long time.
politicians will not change this as it's where their bread is buttered.
it's also buttered by:
- spending uncontrollably to get votes, like whatever revenue comes in doesn't matter
- screaming tax cuts good and tax cuts bad to get votes

my concern is for future generations and what this all means. now that we're all in "kick the can down the road" mode, i've:
- given up all hope that sanity will prevail
- got to even more critically look at what is sure to be a bigger problem as time goes on. i attempt to assess that problem just as you do.

[CU88]

Forget Wall Street, slow crushing wave of failures is coming.

2nd economic advisor has seen the writing on the wall and left the white house in the last month.

GNC files for bankruptcy, will close as many as 1,200 stores. The chain, founded in 1935, is the sixth major U.S. retailer to file for Chapter 11 protection during the pandemic.

A record 20.5 million jobs were lost in April as unemployment rate jumps to 14.7%

120,000 Americans dead and this number will continue to rise.

New coronavirus cases in the U.S. soar to highest single-day total.


Where is our IMPOTUS on all fronts???

[wgdsr]

Forget Wall Street, slow crushing wave of failures is coming.

2nd economic advisor has seen the writing on the wall and left the white house in the last month.

GNC files for bankruptcy, will close as many as 1,200 stores. The chain, founded in 1935, is the sixth major U.S. retailer to file for Chapter 11 protection during the pandemic.

A record 20.5 million jobs were lost in April as unemployment rate jumps to 14.7%

120,000 Americans dead and this number will continue to rise.

New coronavirus cases in the U.S. soar to highest single-day total.


Where is our IMPOTUS on all fronts???

so do you want to shut down businesses or not?
pick a side.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Forget Wall Street, slow crushing wave of failures is coming.

2nd economic advisor has seen the writing on the wall and left the white house in the last month.

GNC files for bankruptcy, will close as many as 1,200 stores. The chain, founded in 1935, is the sixth major U.S. retailer to file for Chapter 11 protection during the pandemic.

A record 20.5 million jobs were lost in April as unemployment rate jumps to 14.7%

120,000 Americans dead and this number will continue to rise.

New coronavirus cases in the U.S. soar to highest single-day total.


Where is our IMPOTUS on all fronts???

so do you want to shut down businesses or not?
pick a side.

Most of what has been “shut down” has been bars, restaurants, air travel and hotels. Those are luxuries. We are going to take the market down to 20,000 because people want table service and they want to drink.

[wgdsr]

Forget Wall Street, slow crushing wave of failures is coming.

2nd economic advisor has seen the writing on the wall and left the white house in the last month.

GNC files for bankruptcy, will close as many as 1,200 stores. The chain, founded in 1935, is the sixth major U.S. retailer to file for Chapter 11 protection during the pandemic.

A record 20.5 million jobs were lost in April as unemployment rate jumps to 14.7%

120,000 Americans dead and this number will continue to rise.

New coronavirus cases in the U.S. soar to highest single-day total.


Where is our IMPOTUS on all fronts???

so do you want to shut down businesses or not?
pick a side.

Most of what has been “shut down” has been bars, restaurants, air travel and hotels. Those are luxuries. We are going to take the market down to 20,000 because people want table service and they want to drink.

c'mon tlld, you don't believe that. tell gnc that.
40 - 50% of our gnp isn't bars and marriotts.
if i "knew" we'd be at 20k i could be up 1000% without putting more than 10-15% out there. maybe i will be there eventually, but fighting the fed's a tough game.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Forget Wall Street, slow crushing wave of failures is coming.

2nd economic advisor has seen the writing on the wall and left the white house in the last month.

GNC files for bankruptcy, will close as many as 1,200 stores. The chain, founded in 1935, is the sixth major U.S. retailer to file for Chapter 11 protection during the pandemic.

A record 20.5 million jobs were lost in April as unemployment rate jumps to 14.7%

120,000 Americans dead and this number will continue to rise.

New coronavirus cases in the U.S. soar to highest single-day total.


Where is our IMPOTUS on all fronts???

so do you want to shut down businesses or not?
pick a side.

Most of what has been “shut down” has been bars, restaurants, air travel and hotels. Those are luxuries. We are going to take the market down to 20,000 because people want table service and they want to drink.

c'mon tlld, you don't believe that. tell gnc that.
40 - 50% of our gnp isn't bars and marriotts.
if i "knew" we'd be at 20k i could be up 1000% without putting more than 10-15% out there. maybe i will be there eventually, but fighting the fed's a tough game.

I am exaggerating as all sport fans tend to do... Retail has been impacted but some were teetering pre COVID. The whole economy wasn’t shut down in the second quarter. I am all for opening up but a reasonable reopening. Bars, restaurants, gyms, concerts and indoor sports would be the last to fill up with people. Opening those things up will just keep us taking 1 step forward and 2 back. We have no discipline in this country and very little common sense. This virus finds a host, replicates and Kills people. People are arguing about wearing a mask. I would have more confidence in those clowns if they volunteered to be infected with the virus to get it over with. Tough guys and gals. They should volunteer to be infected to help us reach heard immunity faster.....they can wear a sticker: “I Got Infected Today”

[wgdsr]

i mean, i get the mask thing, wear it inside and where required, advise it for my kid.
but we've had the cdc, the who, the surgeon general, our top pandemic guy, and god knows who else all come out at various times to say don't wear them, wear them. or maybe not.
these are supposedly the most qualified scientific people in the world.
isn't there a spot to say What the heck is going on instead of these folks are bad? we expect them to what, believe today's tape on masks? when the world's top experts don't know what's the rule? this whole shebang has been a sh*@ show. top to bottom.

[Typical Lax Dad]

i mean, i get the mask thing, wear it inside and where required, advise it for my kid.
but we've had the cdc, the who, the surgeon general, our top pandemic guy, and god knows who else all come out at various times to say don't wear them, wear them. or maybe not.
these are supposedly the most qualified scientific people in the world.
isn't there a spot to say What the heck is going on instead of these folks are bad? we expect them to what, believe today's tape on masks? when the world's top experts don't know what's the rule? this whole shebang has been a sh*@ show. top to bottom.

They didn’t want a run on mask but nobody cares. They had their reason.... it is not because they are stupid. I bought some any way because they wear them in Asia and they have more experience. People are people....If it has worked for them, it should work for us.