All things Chinese CoronaVirus

[Typical Lax Dad]

DeSantis.png

What I don't understand is why it's such a difficult concept for people to comprehend that wearing masks and being careful actually enables back to work and play with less spread, so wear the darn masks!

Idiots?

I agree with you MD. The answer is as simple as why a 5 year old wont eat broccoli. They dont like it and 5 year olds, like most adults, dont like being told what they have to do. That fact it is good for you does not impress anyone. My mom told me that spoonful of cod liver oil was good for me. IMO, sorry mom, nothing that tastes that vile can possibly be good for you.

Yeah, but this is way more about taking care of others than it is about oneself...that's what I think has many stuck...they simply don't care about anyone beyond themselves. And their 'leaders' aren't calling them to their better angels...

Of course, that's a natural, albeit selfish, reaction, but is exactly why we have rules and regulations and laws to actually encourage/make us do what we don't want to do...and we have elections of representatives so that those rules and regs and laws actually reflect the community will...problem is that we have some 'leaders' who think only about their personal self-interest, have zero care and empathy about others.

That's always true of some officials, but rarely as true as it is today in the Oval Office.

So this thing as become a partisan football, rather than just good policy. And we're all paying for that.

Again I agree with you. The problem is once you start telling people what they have to do instead of what they should do... that is when the pushback starts. Human nature is what it is. The vast majority of people dont like being told what to do. That is even when they know it us the right thing to do.

The vast majority of people I see out are wearing masks.

[old salt]

Shutdowns worked.
Down in NY and NJ.

Up in other states including Florida.

Again, the good news is the medical progress in treating those seriously sick. Fewer deaths.

It's the inevitable spread to regions which were hit last.
They are also opening up because they can cope with it.

It's a slow moving wave. The lockdown was to save the hospitals.
It was never realistic to think it could eliminate the spread.

Unattainable, unrealistic expectations. A political stick to beat Trump.
The rationalizations of the protests exposes the political hypocrisy.

[wgdsr]

Of course, that's a natural, albeit selfish, reaction, but is exactly why we have rules and regulations and laws to actually encourage/make us we don't want to do...and we have elections of representatives so that those rules and regs and laws actually reflect the community will...problem is that we have some 'leaders' who think only about their personal self-interest, have zero care and empathy about others.

That's always true of some officials, but rarely as true as it is today in the Oval Office.

So this thing as become a partisan football, rather than just good policy. And we're all paying for that.

while it hasn't been on public display to such obvious effect, it's striking how naive this viewpoint is.

"leaders" are on the me playbook and have been for quite some time. that's the rule, not the exception.

[MDlaxfan76]

Of course, that's a natural, albeit selfish, reaction, but is exactly why we have rules and regulations and laws to actually encourage/make us we don't want to do...and we have elections of representatives so that those rules and regs and laws actually reflect the community will...problem is that we have some 'leaders' who think only about their personal self-interest, have zero care and empathy about others.

That's always true of some officials, but rarely as true as it is today in the Oval Office.

So this thing as become a partisan football, rather than just good policy. And we're all paying for that.

while it hasn't been on public display to such obvious effect, it's striking how naive this viewpoint is.

"leaders" are on the me playbook and have been for quite some time. that's the rule, not the exception.

humans are on the 'me' playbook...right?
certainly politicians are not exempt.

The question is whether we want to reward leaders who call us to our better angels, or those who do the opposite.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Shutdowns worked.
Down in NY and NJ.

Up in other states including Florida.

Again, the good news is the medical progress in treating those seriously sick. Fewer deaths.

It's the inevitable spread to regions which were hit last.
They are also opening up because they can cope with it.

It's a slow moving wave. The lockdown was to save the hospitals.
It was never realistic to think it could eliminate the spread.

Unattainable, unrealistic expectations. A political stick to beat Trump.
The rationalizations of the protests exposes the political hypocrisy.

I am not sure I heard any public official say the goal was to eliminate the virus by shutting down. You keep repeating that as if it’s true. It was shut down so as to not overwhelm the healthcare system. When and how to reopen had less clarity. I was of the opinion that in the NY metro region we were 2-3 weeks too early but I am conservative.

[MDlaxfan76]

Shutdowns worked.
Down in NY and NJ.

Up in other states including Florida.

Again, the good news is the medical progress in treating those seriously sick. Fewer deaths.

It's the inevitable spread to regions which were hit last.
They are also opening up because they can cope with it.

It's a slow moving wave. The lockdown was to save the hospitals.
It was never realistic to think it could eliminate the spread.

Unattainable, unrealistic expectations. A political stick to beat Trump.
The rationalizations of the protests exposes the political hypocrisy.

Which expectation, that the virus is 'fading away'?
Who set that expectation? Who did so again last week?

Come on, Salty, Trump's failure is on widescreen display on this issue.

That said, of course the virus is going to keep rolling along (we didn't get lucky with this particular virus being seasonal, other than outside being better than inside). But Trump is telling his cult the opposite.

Tell us that tough truth and what we can do to help slow the spread (ie masks) and then model that behavior. Don't lie.

Really not that difficult.

Trump failed and continues to fail on even that very low bar.

We can and should 'open up' to work and play, but do so in ways that keep the virus at bay. Fortunately, most people and businesses are doing their part...but some are not, and that's costing us all.

[MDlaxfan76]

Shutdowns worked.
Down in NY and NJ.

Up in other states including Florida.

Again, the good news is the medical progress in treating those seriously sick. Fewer deaths.

It's the inevitable spread to regions which were hit last.
They are also opening up because they can cope with it.

It's a slow moving wave. The lockdown was to save the hospitals.
It was never realistic to think it could eliminate the spread.

Unattainable, unrealistic expectations. A political stick to beat Trump.
The rationalizations of the protests exposes the political hypocrisy.

I am not sure I heard any public official say the goal was to eliminate the virus by shutting down. You keep repeating that as if it’s true. It was shut down so as to not overwhelm the healthcare system. When and how to reopen had less clarity. I was of the opinion that in the NY metro region we were 2-3 weeks too early but I am conservative.

Actually, there was a whole lot of clarity of how and when to open, but then those guidelines and processes were ignored from the top down. Fortunately, lots of people paid attention and behaved smarter as they moved forward. But too many didn't.

[MDlaxfan76]

DeSantis.png

What I don't understand is why it's such a difficult concept for people to comprehend that wearing masks and being careful actually enables back to work and play with less spread, so wear the darn masks!

Idiots?

I agree with you MD. The answer is as simple as why a 5 year old wont eat broccoli. They dont like it and 5 year olds, like most adults, dont like being told what they have to do. That fact it is good for you does not impress anyone. My mom told me that spoonful of cod liver oil was good for me. IMO, sorry mom, nothing that tastes that vile can possibly be good for you.

Yeah, but this is way more about taking care of others than it is about oneself...that's what I think has many stuck...they simply don't care about anyone beyond themselves. And their 'leaders' aren't calling them to their better angels...

Of course, that's a natural, albeit selfish, reaction, but is exactly why we have rules and regulations and laws to actually encourage/make us do what we don't want to do...and we have elections of representatives so that those rules and regs and laws actually reflect the community will...problem is that we have some 'leaders' who think only about their personal self-interest, have zero care and empathy about others.

That's always true of some officials, but rarely as true as it is today in the Oval Office.

So this thing as become a partisan football, rather than just good policy. And we're all paying for that.

Again I agree with you. The problem is once you start telling people what they have to do instead of what they should do... that is when the pushback starts. Human nature is what it is. The vast majority of people dont like being told what to do. That is even when they know it us the right thing to do.

Yup, we don't like being told to stop at red lights, and some people don't.

But a heck of a lot fewer run red lights than if there were no rules.

[CU88]

Shutdowns worked.
Down in NY and NJ.

Up in other states including Florida.

Again, the good news is the medical progress in treating those seriously sick. Fewer deaths.

It's the inevitable spread to regions which were hit last.
They are also opening up because they can cope with it.

It's a slow moving wave. The lockdown was to save the hospitals.
It was never realistic to think it could eliminate the spread.

Unattainable, unrealistic expectations. A political stick to beat Trump.
The rationalizations of the protests exposes the political hypocrisy.

I am not sure I heard any public official say the goal was to eliminate the virus by shutting down. You keep repeating that as if it’s true. It was shut down so as to not overwhelm the healthcare system. When and how to reopen had less clarity. I was of the opinion that in the NY metro region we were 2-3 weeks too early but I am conservative.

+1

"Flatten the Curve"

[Typical Lax Dad]

Shutdowns worked.
Down in NY and NJ.

Up in other states including Florida.

Again, the good news is the medical progress in treating those seriously sick. Fewer deaths.

It's the inevitable spread to regions which were hit last.
They are also opening up because they can cope with it.

It's a slow moving wave. The lockdown was to save the hospitals.
It was never realistic to think it could eliminate the spread.

Unattainable, unrealistic expectations. A political stick to beat Trump.
The rationalizations of the protests exposes the political hypocrisy.

I am not sure I heard any public official say the goal was to eliminate the virus by shutting down. You keep repeating that as if it’s true. It was shut down so as to not overwhelm the healthcare system. When and how to reopen had less clarity. I was of the opinion that in the NY metro region we were 2-3 weeks too early but I am conservative.

Actually, there was a whole lot of clarity of how and when to open, but then those guidelines and processes were ignored from the top down. Fortunately, lots of people paid attention and behaved smarter as they moved forward. But too many didn't.

Yes. There was eventually a protocol for opening up....and then it became just a “recommendation” but no one was obligated to follow the guidelines. I don’t know of anyone in an official capacity that suggested we stay locked down until we had a vaccine or eliminated the virus. This “they are trying to make Trump look bad” is stupid. He doesn’t need anyone’s help.

[MDlaxfan76]

Shutdowns worked.
Down in NY and NJ.

Up in other states including Florida.

Again, the good news is the medical progress in treating those seriously sick. Fewer deaths.

It's the inevitable spread to regions which were hit last.
They are also opening up because they can cope with it.

It's a slow moving wave. The lockdown was to save the hospitals.
It was never realistic to think it could eliminate the spread.

Unattainable, unrealistic expectations. A political stick to beat Trump.
The rationalizations of the protests exposes the political hypocrisy.

I am not sure I heard any public official say the goal was to eliminate the virus by shutting down. You keep repeating that as if it’s true. It was shut down so as to not overwhelm the healthcare system. When and how to reopen had less clarity. I was of the opinion that in the NY metro region we were 2-3 weeks too early but I am conservative.

Actually, there was a whole lot of clarity of how and when to open, but then those guidelines and processes were ignored from the top down. Fortunately, lots of people paid attention and behaved smarter as they moved forward. But too many didn't.

Yes. There was eventually a protocol for opening up....and then it became just a “recommendation” but no one was obligated to follow the guidelines. I don’t know of anyone in an official capacity that suggested we stay locked down until we had a vaccine or eliminated the virus. This “they are trying to make Trump look bad” is stupid. He doesn’t need anyone’s help.

Totally agree, he's been able to do that all on his own, in spades.

And you're right that no one suggested that we remain in lockdown until we had a vaccine, etc, just until we'd flattened the curve, bending it down ward on a sustained basis, bolstered hospital capacity, and had contact tracing in place to keep the virus spread low.

But they never mobilized at the federal level to actually put those conditions in place, just keep telling us this would all go 'magically away'.

More recently they've embraced the mask issue, admitting that should have been the strong recommendation earlier. Should be mandatory across the country, my bet is that will happen in most states eventually, but Trump will never embrace it.

And more granularly, all sorts of methods to reduce risk of spread in various business settings...what we're really seeing is less about government recommendations and what patrons are demanding...AMC's reversal was very predictable...you've got 80-90% of your patrons saying they want to feel safe before they return and mandatory masks would help...

[Peter Brown]

Although most of you who should have been quiet recently haven’t been, I suspect you will be soon:

38ACE427-9651-489F-B42F-B65D3E387E89.png (38.45 KiB) Viewed 1004 times

[Bart]

Although most of you who should have been quiet recently haven’t been, I suspect you will be soon:


38ACE427-9651-489F-B42F-B65D3E387E89.png

That’s a nice graph. I like the colors. But what’s the axis? Without any axis labels it is just a squiggly line. No figure legend either. Context? Yes....pet peeve of mine when presenting data.

[RedFromMI]

Although most of you who should have been quiet recently haven’t been, I suspect you will be soon:


38ACE427-9651-489F-B42F-B65D3E387E89.png

That’s a nice graph. I like the colors. But what’s the axis? Without any axis labels it is just a squiggly line. No figure legend either. Context? Yes....pet peeve of mine when presenting data.

And the one line is a small sample of states, while the other is all 50. Makes it even more suspect if not actually wrong without further explanation.

[Peter Brown]

Although most of you who should have been quiet recently haven’t been, I suspect you will be soon:


38ACE427-9651-489F-B42F-B65D3E387E89.png

That’s a nice graph. I like the colors. But what’s the axis? Without any axis labels it is just a squiggly line. No figure legend either. Context? Yes....pet peeve of mine when presenting data.

And the one line is a small sample of states, while the other is all 50. Makes it even more suspect if not actually wrong without further explanation.

B5DA12E5-D434-4079-B12B-AE4B8B0D331F.jpeg (46.56 KiB) Viewed 938 times

[cradleandshoot]

DeSantis.png

What I don't understand is why it's such a difficult concept for people to comprehend that wearing masks and being careful actually enables back to work and play with less spread, so wear the darn masks!

Idiots?

I agree with you MD. The answer is as simple as why a 5 year old wont eat broccoli. They dont like it and 5 year olds, like most adults, dont like being told what they have to do. That fact it is good for you does not impress anyone. My mom told me that spoonful of cod liver oil was good for me. IMO, sorry mom, nothing that tastes that vile can possibly be good for you.

Yeah, but this is way more about taking care of others than it is about oneself...that's what I think has many stuck...they simply don't care about anyone beyond themselves. And their 'leaders' aren't calling them to their better angels...

Of course, that's a natural, albeit selfish, reaction, but is exactly why we have rules and regulations and laws to actually encourage/make us do what we don't want to do...and we have elections of representatives so that those rules and regs and laws actually reflect the community will...problem is that we have some 'leaders' who think only about their personal self-interest, have zero care and empathy about others.

That's always true of some officials, but rarely as true as it is today in the Oval Office.

So this thing as become a partisan football, rather than just good policy. And we're all paying for that.

Again I agree with you. The problem is once you start telling people what they have to do instead of what they should do... that is when the pushback starts. Human nature is what it is. The vast majority of people dont like being told what to do. That is even when they know it us the right thing to do.

The vast majority of people I see out are wearing masks.

I would have agreed with you up until yesterday. I was in a local wal mart store. There were way too many people walking around with no masks on. Many that did have masks had them pulled down under their nose. I wear a mask everywhere I go. I will do so for the foreseeable future. IMO many folks think the threat has passed and things are okay now. Things will not be okay for a very long time.

[cradleandshoot]

Shutdowns worked.
Down in NY and NJ.

Up in other states including Florida.

Again, the good news is the medical progress in treating those seriously sick. Fewer deaths.

It's the inevitable spread to regions which were hit last.
They are also opening up because they can cope with it.

It's a slow moving wave. The lockdown was to save the hospitals.
It was never realistic to think it could eliminate the spread.

Unattainable, unrealistic expectations. A political stick to beat Trump.
The rationalizations of the protests exposes the political hypocrisy.

I am not sure I heard any public official say the goal was to eliminate the virus by shutting down. You keep repeating that as if it’s true. It was shut down so as to not overwhelm the healthcare system. When and how to reopen had less clarity. I was of the opinion that in the NY metro region we were 2-3 weeks too early but I am conservative.

Actually, there was a whole lot of clarity of how and when to open, but then those guidelines and processes were ignored from the top down. Fortunately, lots of people paid attention and behaved smarter as they moved forward. But too many didn't.

Yes. There was eventually a protocol for opening up....and then it became just a “recommendation” but no one was obligated to follow the guidelines. I don’t know of anyone in an official capacity that suggested we stay locked down until we had a vaccine or eliminated the virus. This “they are trying to make Trump look bad” is stupid. He doesn’t need anyone’s help.

Totally agree, he's been able to do that all on his own, in spades.

And you're right that no one suggested that we remain in lockdown until we had a vaccine, etc, just until we'd flattened the curve, bending it down ward on a sustained basis, bolstered hospital capacity, and had contact tracing in place to keep the virus spread low.

But they never mobilized at the federal level to actually put those conditions in place, just keep telling us this would all go 'magically away'.

More recently they've embraced the mask issue, admitting that should have been the strong recommendation earlier. Should be mandatory across the country, my bet is that will happen in most states eventually, but Trump will never embrace it.

And more granularly, all sorts of methods to reduce risk of spread in various business settings...what we're really seeing is less about government recommendations and what patrons are demanding...AMC's reversal was very predictable...you've got 80-90% of your patrons saying they want to feel safe before they return and mandatory masks would help...

there would be some serious irony if Trump were to wind up getting covid. Who would he blame? The media would be my guess. It ain't like Trump is not in the high risk category. I thought Trump was always one of those germaphobes I guess he got over it.

[kramerica.inc]

The goal of the shutdown was NOT to eliminate infections, but to flatten the curve so we can handle the load.

We've done that.

A spike in numbers is obviously going to happen as we open back up. But we've got beds now. If we're in danger of running out of beds, we reign it back in. If not, carry on. Corona risk is the new normal, just like car accidents and the flu. Do your best to take precautions.

[Typical Lax Dad]

DeSantis.png

What I don't understand is why it's such a difficult concept for people to comprehend that wearing masks and being careful actually enables back to work and play with less spread, so wear the darn masks!

Idiots?

I agree with you MD. The answer is as simple as why a 5 year old wont eat broccoli. They dont like it and 5 year olds, like most adults, dont like being told what they have to do. That fact it is good for you does not impress anyone. My mom told me that spoonful of cod liver oil was good for me. IMO, sorry mom, nothing that tastes that vile can possibly be good for you.

Yeah, but this is way more about taking care of others than it is about oneself...that's what I think has many stuck...they simply don't care about anyone beyond themselves. And their 'leaders' aren't calling them to their better angels...

Of course, that's a natural, albeit selfish, reaction, but is exactly why we have rules and regulations and laws to actually encourage/make us do what we don't want to do...and we have elections of representatives so that those rules and regs and laws actually reflect the community will...problem is that we have some 'leaders' who think only about their personal self-interest, have zero care and empathy about others.

That's always true of some officials, but rarely as true as it is today in the Oval Office.

So this thing as become a partisan football, rather than just good policy. And we're all paying for that.

Again I agree with you. The problem is once you start telling people what they have to do instead of what they should do... that is when the pushback starts. Human nature is what it is. The vast majority of people dont like being told what to do. That is even when they know it us the right thing to do.

The vast majority of people I see out are wearing masks.

I would have agreed with you up until yesterday. I was in a local wal mart store. There were way too many people walking around with no masks on. Many that did have masks had them pulled down under their nose. I wear a mask everywhere I go. I will do so for the foreseeable future. IMO many folks think the threat has passed and things are okay now. Things will not be okay for a very long time.

Thanks. I don’t understand why people believe the risk has passes or is overblown. 120,000+ dead. Anyone that believes that number is “inflated” is a fool.

[Peter Brown]

The goal of the shutdown was NOT to eliminate infections, but to flatten the curve so we can handle the load.

We've done that.

A spike in numbers is obviously going to happen as we open back up. But we've got beds now. If we're in danger of running out of beds, we reign it back in. If not, carry on. Corona risk is the new normal, just like car accidents and the flu. Do your best to take precautions.

Buzzfeed won't come out and say Cuomo is massaging numbers (after all, they are quite the liberal shill journo org), but it seems this article is basically saying NY's death toll for assisted living facilities from Covid is much higher than reported.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ro ... gc#4ldqpgc

If this was Florida, the Fanlax Dems would be having coronary attacks trying to feverishly type up condemnations... Orange Man Bad. R bad, D good.

“We have deep concerns about the numbers of fatalities that Bronxwood and every other adult facility in New York City have been reporting to the health department. They don't reflect what we believe are the actual fatalities,” Lieberman said. “It’s absolutely frustrating.”

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ro ... gc#4ldqpgc