CNN Says 'White Men' are the Biggest Terror Threat in US

[Brooklyn]

Defund the Police!

They did in Jersey:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Camden+ ... e&ie=UTF-8


And it worked!

[Brooklyn]

Man with links to 'boogaloo' movement indicted in Texas


A 36-year-old man with apparent ties to a loose movement of right-wing extremists has been indicted in Texas on charges including the attempted capital murder of a peace officer.

Aaron Swenson was arrested in April by police in Texarkana, Texas, and accused of threatening to ambush and kill a police officer in a Facebook Live video. He was wearing a ballistic vest when officers took him into custody, and they found two loaded pistols and a shotgun in his car, according to a police report.

Swenson's Facebook page included references to the “boogaloo” movement, a network of gun enthusiasts who often express support for overthrowing the U.S. government, according to police and the Tech Transparency Project, which tracks technology companies. Hours before his arrest, police said, Swenson wrote a post under an alias saying “I feel like hunting the hunters.”

A grand jury indictment Thursday also charged Swenson with attempted murder, and making a terroristic threat against a peace officer or judge. He could face up to life in prison if convicted of attempted murder of a peace officer — the most serious charge. Court records do not indicate whether he has entered a plea.

More:
https://www.chron.com/news/article/Man- ... 336961.php



white supremacist wants to ''defund'' police:







such a stalwart citizen

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

i have a question. much discussion on whether the coronavirus thread had an offensive subject. should we have that here?

someone's going to chime in and say one is true, the other isnt. so i guess not worth discussing.

[youthathletics]

Defund the Police!

They did in Jersey:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Camden+ ... e&ie=UTF-8


And it worked!

Define worked.....read the whole story. They damned near doubled the amount of police, only dropped 9 spots from 1 to 10th as worst crime city in America. And total citizens dropped by ~7k, less section 8 housing, and more


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.busine ... 20-6%3famp

Only Brooklyn logic would recommend a new and improved police force that still beats people as a success. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKef9hgOFio

[Brooklyn]

Define worked.....read the whole story. They damned near doubled the amount of police, only dropped 9 spots from 1 to 10th as worst crime city in America. And total citizens dropped by ~7k, less section 8 housing, and more


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.busine ... 20-6%3famp

Only Brooklyn logic would recommend a new and improved police force that still beats people as a success. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKef9hgOFio

You likely missed the point of it all - the old guard (if you can call it that) was nuked. A new guard, one that is accountable to the public, was brought in. Made all the difference. This is not to say they are perfect but they did make an improvement. I would go a few steps further as in the changes I've already written about.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Define worked.....read the whole story. They damned near doubled the amount of police, only dropped 9 spots from 1 to 10th as worst crime city in America. And total citizens dropped by ~7k, less section 8 housing, and more


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.busine ... 20-6%3famp

Only Brooklyn logic would recommend a new and improved police force that still beats people as a success. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKef9hgOFio

You likely missed the point of it all - the old guard (if you can call it that) was nuked. A new guard, one that is accountable to the public, was brought in. Made all the difference. This is not to say they are perfect but they did make an improvement. I would go a few steps further as in the changes I've already written about.

Crime didn’t go up so....a slight decline in crime and police are accountable to the people they serve and are not above the law and it’s less money..... sounds like a win. Good conservative policy.

[youthathletics]

Define worked.....read the whole story. They damned near doubled the amount of police, only dropped 9 spots from 1 to 10th as worst crime city in America. And total citizens dropped by ~7k, less section 8 housing, and more


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.busine ... 20-6%3famp

Only Brooklyn logic would recommend a new and improved police force that still beats people as a success. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKef9hgOFio

You likely missed the point of it all - the old guard (if you can call it that) was nuked. A new guard, one that is accountable to the public, was brought in. Made all the difference. This is not to say they are perfect but they did make an improvement. I would go a few steps further as in the changes I've already written about.

Crime didn’t go up so....a slight decline in crime and police are accountable to the people they serve and are not above the law and it’s less money..... sounds like a win. Good conservative policy.

Would love to see the ledger sheet. Hard to fathom how costs went down when the amount of police almost doubled.

[Brooklyn]

Define worked.....read the whole story. They damned near doubled the amount of police, only dropped 9 spots from 1 to 10th as worst crime city in America. And total citizens dropped by ~7k, less section 8 housing, and more


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.busine ... 20-6%3famp

Only Brooklyn logic would recommend a new and improved police force that still beats people as a success. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKef9hgOFio

You likely missed the point of it all - the old guard (if you can call it that) was nuked. A new guard, one that is accountable to the public, was brought in. Made all the difference. This is not to say they are perfect but they did make an improvement. I would go a few steps further as in the changes I've already written about.

Crime didn’t go up so....a slight decline in crime and police are accountable to the people they serve and are not above the law and it’s less money..... sounds like a win. Good conservative policy.

People are happier and feel safer. That's what matters the most.

[MDlaxfan76]

Define worked.....read the whole story. They damned near doubled the amount of police, only dropped 9 spots from 1 to 10th as worst crime city in America. And total citizens dropped by ~7k, less section 8 housing, and more


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.busine ... 20-6%3famp

Only Brooklyn logic would recommend a new and improved police force that still beats people as a success. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKef9hgOFio

You likely missed the point of it all - the old guard (if you can call it that) was nuked. A new guard, one that is accountable to the public, was brought in. Made all the difference. This is not to say they are perfect but they did make an improvement. I would go a few steps further as in the changes I've already written about.

Crime didn’t go up so....a slight decline in crime and police are accountable to the people they serve and are not above the law and it’s less money..... sounds like a win. Good conservative policy.

Would love to see the ledger sheet. Hard to fathom how costs went down when the amount of police almost doubled.

Guys, I've read the article three times, though have not explored the links so there may be more detail beyond, so the following may not be 100% correct. But based on the article:

Camden's 'defund' and 'rebuild' appears to not be an exact model for what should be done going forward.

It appears that the drop in funding was across the board, cutting libraries and all sorts of other services, as well as 167 officers...and then the dismissal of all police, then the hiring of 411 police staff, more than, by my math, the prior level (from the article, the less than 350 prior to the changes. Not "doubled" but more.

It appears to have had mixed impact, muddled by the reduction in population.

If the point is that 'defund' and 'rebuild/reform' is a practical possibility, then yes, Camden proves it can be done.

But when this is done, far more attention needs to be in surging other services, yes at considerable cost, to actually improve the living conditions of those in those areas most vulnerable to crime and most likely to turn to violent crime.

IMO, the most important element not yet being discussed is the criticality of decriminalizing all drug usage, making substance abuse and mental health a major, well funded public health priority, rather than a policing matter. Take the money out of the drug trade and you radically change the value of taking and defending street corners. Take the profitability out of employing children to run drugs and to recruit other children to the trade and to the usage of drugs...Do so and you can radically reduce incarceration, saving enormous sums that can be deployed to public health and economic opportunity.

Doing so will also dramatically reduce the frequency of actual confrontations between citizens and police, as well as the general violence threat level police understandably feel as they battle the drug trade scourge.

Of course, there also needs to be way, way better training on deescalation of confrontation and explicit rules about use of force and clearcut citizen-led commissions enabling the removal of offending officers, regardless of union objection.

[Brooklyn]

Tarnished Brass

We found 85,000 cops who’ve been investigated for misconduct. Now you can read their records.
In 2019, USA TODAY led a national effort to publish disciplinary records for police officers. George Floyd's death has renewed calls for transparency



At least 85,000 law enforcement officers across the USA have been investigated or disciplined for misconduct over the past decade, an investigation by USA TODAY Network found.

Officers have beaten members of the public, planted evidence and used their badges to harass women. They have lied, stolen, dealt drugs, driven drunk and abused their spouses.

Despite their role as public servants, the men and women who swear an oath to keep communities safe can generally avoid public scrutiny for their misdeeds.

The records of their misconduct are filed away, rarely seen by anyone outside their departments. Police unions and their political allies have worked to put special protections in place ensuring some records are shielded from public view, or even destroyed.

Reporters from USA TODAY, its affiliated newsrooms across the country and the nonprofit Invisible Institute in Chicago spent more than a year creating the biggest collection of police misconduct records.

Obtained from thousands of state agencies, prosecutors, police departments and sheriffs, the records detail at least 200,000 incidents of alleged misconduct, much of it previously unreported. The records obtained include more than 110,000 internal affairs investigations by hundreds of individual departments and more than 30,000 officers who were decertified by 44 state oversight agencies.

USA TODAY Network has gathered discipline and accountability records on more than 85,000 law enforcement officers and has started releasing them to the public. The first collection published is a list of more than 30,000 officers who have been decertified, essentially banned from the profession, in 44 states. Search our exclusive database by officer, department or state.

Among the findings:

Most misconduct involves routine infractions, but the records reveal tens of thousands of cases of serious misconduct and abuse. They include 22,924 investigations of officers using excessive force, 3,145 allegations of rape, child molestation and other sexual misconduct and 2,307 cases of domestic violence by officers.

Dishonesty is a frequent problem. The records document at least 2,227 instances of perjury, tampering with evidence or witnesses or falsifying reports. There were 418 reports of officers obstructing investigations, most often when they or someone they knew were targets.

Less than 10% of officers in most police forces get investigated for misconduct. Yet some officers are consistently under investigation. Nearly 2,500 have been investigated on 10 or more charges. Twenty faced 100 or more allegations yet kept their badge for years.


more...


https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/ ... 223984002/



Imagine of this had been Antifa.

[holmes435]

i have a question. much discussion on whether the coronavirus thread had an offensive subject. should we have that here?

someone's going to chime in and say one is true, the other isnt. so i guess not worth discussing.

What would you like to discuss about the title of this thread?

From my point of view COVID-19 potentially originated in China, but it wasn't created by the Chinese or deliberately spread by the Chinese, but by their incompetence and authoritarian tendencies (and potentially stopped in-country by those same fascist and authoritarian controls). We had many opportunities to stop it spreading like wildfire here, but unlike other countries with the same information we had who crushed the virus, we did not.

The 'White Men' terror cases both originated from these deranged white men and were created by these white men and their insulated cohorts. They account for a very small amount of crime and deaths in the US, but account for nearly 3/4 of terror-related incidents and terror-related deaths in the US since 9/11 (and before).

I've put up my arguments above, but I'm very much open for a discussion vs. the trolling and meme posting in other threads if you want to discuss it a bit further.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

i have a question. much discussion on whether the coronavirus thread had an offensive subject. should we have that here?

someone's going to chime in and say one is true, the other isnt. so i guess not worth discussing.

What would you like to discuss about the title of this thread?

From my point of view COVID-19 potentially originated in China, but it wasn't created by the Chinese or deliberately spread by the Chinese, but by their incompetence and authoritarian tendencies (and potentially stopped in-country by those same fascist and authoritarian controls). We had many opportunities to stop it spreading like wildfire here, but unlike other countries with the same information we had who crushed the virus, we did not.

The 'White Men' terror cases both originated from these deranged white men and were created by these white men and their insulated cohorts. They account for a very small amount of crime and deaths in the US, but account for nearly 3/4 of terror-related incidents and terror-related deaths in the US since 9/11 (and before).

I've put up my arguments above, but I'm very much open for a discussion vs. the trolling and meme posting in other threads if you want to discuss it a bit further.

i agree. we watched them putt, and then left it short.

agreed too on terror. questions i'd ask- because statistics can be manipulated- are we looking at all incidents, or on a per-capita basis? that changes the mathematics.

secondly, i wonder if someone who is white finds the headline offensive, because it can brand many ("biggest") white men as terrorists. i don't think that necessarily, nor am i offended, but many took offense with the covid subject. i think it's merely stating a fact (though, see my first question).

thank you for discussing!

[holmes435]

i agree. we watched them putt, and then left it short.

agreed too on terror. questions i'd ask- because statistics can be manipulated- are we looking at all incidents, or on a per-capita basis? that changes the mathematics.

secondly, i wonder if someone who is white finds the headline offensive, because it can brand many ("biggest") white men as terrorists. i don't think that necessarily, nor am i offended, but many took offense with the covid subject. i think it's merely stating a fact (though, see my first question).

thank you for discussing!

I disagree with people who think "Chinese Coronavirus" is a racist labeling, but I do agree it is an attempt to shift blame from our own failings even if China still bears some responsibility. I'm not sure if I've seen any complaints that it is a racist label on the various sites I visit, but I don't go on Twitter.


It took a little digging, but it looks like this was the incident Bandito / PB was originally mad about: https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/ ... 843131002/

So it looks like after 9/11 until 2016, far-right extremists carried out nearly three times as many attacks as Islamic extremists, but the Islamic extremist attacks were more deadly overall. Not sure what the exact stats are since 2016, but we've had some high profile attacks since then. You'd also need to take a look at the overall population of white extremists vs. incidents and islamic extremists vs. incidents to get a better look.

CNN and other outlets are going for the big headlines and opinions, and "White Men = biggest terror threat" is certainly attention grabbing. It could be technically correct, but they should be more specific in saying White right-wing (say that three times fast) extremist terrorism, especially if they're going to complain about the right saying Islamic terrorism vs. Islamic extremist terrorism or something that fits much better.

[Farfromgeneva]

Define worked.....read the whole story. They damned near doubled the amount of police, only dropped 9 spots from 1 to 10th as worst crime city in America. And total citizens dropped by ~7k, less section 8 housing, and more


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.busine ... 20-6%3famp

Only Brooklyn logic would recommend a new and improved police force that still beats people as a success. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKef9hgOFio

You likely missed the point of it all - the old guard (if you can call it that) was nuked. A new guard, one that is accountable to the public, was brought in. Made all the difference. This is not to say they are perfect but they did make an improvement. I would go a few steps further as in the changes I've already written about.

Crime didn’t go up so....a slight decline in crime and police are accountable to the people they serve and are not above the law and it’s less money..... sounds like a win. Good conservative policy.

Would love to see the ledger sheet. Hard to fathom how costs went down when the amount of police almost doubled.

Guys, I've read the article three times, though have not explored the links so there may be more detail beyond, so the following may not be 100% correct. But based on the article:

Camden's 'defund' and 'rebuild' appears to not be an exact model for what should be done going forward.

It appears that the drop in funding was across the board, cutting libraries and all sorts of other services, as well as 167 officers...and then the dismissal of all police, then the hiring of 411 police staff, more than, by my math, the prior level (from the article, the less than 350 prior to the changes. Not "doubled" but more.

It appears to have had mixed impact, muddled by the reduction in population.

If the point is that 'defund' and 'rebuild/reform' is a practical possibility, then yes, Camden proves it can be done.

But when this is done, far more attention needs to be in surging other services, yes at considerable cost, to actually improve the living conditions of those in those areas most vulnerable to crime and most likely to turn to violent crime.

IMO, the most important element not yet being discussed is the criticality of decriminalizing all drug usage, making substance abuse and mental health a major, well funded public health priority, rather than a policing matter. Take the money out of the drug trade and you radically change the value of taking and defending street corners. Take the profitability out of employing children to run drugs and to recruit other children to the trade and to the usage of drugs...Do so and you can radically reduce incarceration, saving enormous sums that can be deployed to public health and economic opportunity.

Doing so will also dramatically reduce the frequency of actual confrontations between citizens and police, as well as the general violence threat level police understandably feel as they battle the drug trade scourge.

Of course, there also needs to be way, way better training on deescalation of confrontation and explicit rules about use of force and clearcut citizen-led commissions enabling the removal of offending officers, regardless of union objection.

Major drug decriminalization would be a improvement thing IMO.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

i agree. we watched them putt, and then left it short.

agreed too on terror. questions i'd ask- because statistics can be manipulated- are we looking at all incidents, or on a per-capita basis? that changes the mathematics.

secondly, i wonder if someone who is white finds the headline offensive, because it can brand many ("biggest") white men as terrorists. i don't think that necessarily, nor am i offended, but many took offense with the covid subject. i think it's merely stating a fact (though, see my first question).

thank you for discussing!

I disagree with people who think "Chinese Coronavirus" is a racist labeling, but I do agree it is an attempt to shift blame from our own failings even if China still bears some responsibility. I'm not sure if I've seen any complaints that it is a racist label on the various sites I visit, but I don't go on Twitter.


It took a little digging, but it looks like this was the incident Bandito / PB was originally mad about: https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/ ... 843131002/

So it looks like after 9/11 until 2016, far-right extremists carried out nearly three times as many attacks as Islamic extremists, but the Islamic extremist attacks were more deadly overall. Not sure what the exact stats are since 2016, but we've had some high profile attacks since then. You'd also need to take a look at the overall population of white extremists vs. incidents and islamic extremists vs. incidents to get a better look.

CNN and other outlets are going for the big headlines and opinions, and "White Men = biggest terror threat" is certainly attention grabbing. It could be technically correct, but they should be more specific in saying White right-wing (say that three times fast) extremist terrorism, especially if they're going to complain about the right saying Islamic terrorism vs. Islamic extremist terrorism or something that fits much better.

agreed again. if i was acting the contrarian, i'd say to don lemon: sure, but 61% of the population is white (making ~30% white male), so without further analysis, it's not nearly as conclusive as he makes it. then again, i've never really trusted him for objectivity. same point as yours- bombast.

[Farfromgeneva]

I remember it feeling poignant when I was maybe a Jr in HS, loved all music from folk (has a pony tail until I got to FB preseason camp at Hobart, ran around to plenty of Phish, Rusted Root, Early Blues Traveler and Dave Matthews shows and summer trips to Trumansburg for the grass roots fesrival) to Haaard Rock (anthrax) and listening to a rapper named KRS One (South Bronx for ya Brooklyn!) and his crew drop a line “you paint the pictures the black man on the corner, but tell me who blew up Oklahoma”. Song is called Free Mumia and they take healthy shots at Colin Powell (“house n/-$:a”) and Jesse Jackson (“yeah j Jackson we know what you about, youse a slave mason not a free mason, before long the goddess Tiamat through hip hop you’ll be facing”). Came out around 1994-95, maybe I was a Sr.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/genius.com ... mia-lyrics

If anyone wants to hear truly good hip hop start with KRS One and Dead Prez. I often disagree with some of their prescriptions, particularly Prez who joined the panthers when they met at Florida A&M before coming back to NYC, but they diagnose the problems in incredibly articulate and visceral ways.

The headline may clearly be about making money for the organization (CNN) but as this same song points out there was a ton of violence before rap or ghetto gangbanging culture which was driven largely by white guys (and suge Knight) who wanted to Tupac-Biggie disaster, who was East Es agent and ultimately responsible for promoting NWA (and taking their money)? It’s been tired for a long time to just point at corner boys in urban areas as the root cause of all Americas problems as if meth and oxy isn’t infesting white parts of Long Island, Tennessee and all sorts of other areas. Crips and Bloods aren’t really worse the the Antagonists in Sons of Anarchy. It’s socioeconomic and how folks value life, their own and others.

I also get tired of apologetic effete folks, what I define is the middle class suburban white person in the 80s who (generally Democrat) protested about liking blacks but could only produce the same 2-4 public figures (jesse jackson, Bill Cosby and one or two others) but would still be likely to cross the street if they saw three young black kids with pants barely hanging onto their asses. They’ve allowed cover for a lot of dirt to happen in the last 25yrs by playing pretend open mindedness. Intention may have been ok but that doesn’t matter results do, my mother who just passed in April was one of those and she didn’t even know better even though late in life she managed to get a masters at Cornell’s ILR school.

[PizzaSnake]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... o-movement

How many others in the armed forces? That Naval Academy grad in Florida who live-streamed his stupidity is an interesting demographic datapoint.P

[CU88]

NATIONAL SECURITY

Intel report warns that far-right extremists may target Washington, D.C.
The district is "likely an attractive target" for the boogaloo movement and other groups, the intelligence assessment warns.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/1 ... -dc-329771

[MDlaxfan76]

i agree. we watched them putt, and then left it short.

agreed too on terror. questions i'd ask- because statistics can be manipulated- are we looking at all incidents, or on a per-capita basis? that changes the mathematics.

secondly, i wonder if someone who is white finds the headline offensive, because it can brand many ("biggest") white men as terrorists. i don't think that necessarily, nor am i offended, but many took offense with the covid subject. i think it's merely stating a fact (though, see my first question).

thank you for discussing!

I disagree with people who think "Chinese Coronavirus" is a racist labeling, but I do agree it is an attempt to shift blame from our own failings even if China still bears some responsibility. I'm not sure if I've seen any complaints that it is a racist label on the various sites I visit, but I don't go on Twitter.


It took a little digging, but it looks like this was the incident Bandito / PB was originally mad about: https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/ ... 843131002/

So it looks like after 9/11 until 2016, far-right extremists carried out nearly three times as many attacks as Islamic extremists, but the Islamic extremist attacks were more deadly overall. Not sure what the exact stats are since 2016, but we've had some high profile attacks since then. You'd also need to take a look at the overall population of white extremists vs. incidents and islamic extremists vs. incidents to get a better look.

CNN and other outlets are going for the big headlines and opinions, and "White Men = biggest terror threat" is certainly attention grabbing. It could be technically correct, but they should be more specific in saying White right-wing (say that three times fast) extremist terrorism, especially if they're going to complain about the right saying Islamic terrorism vs. Islamic extremist terrorism or something that fits much better.

agreed again. if i was acting the contrarian, i'd say to don lemon: sure, but 61% of the population is white (making ~30% white male), so without further analysis, it's not nearly as conclusive as he makes it. then again, i've never really trusted him for objectivity. same point as yours- bombast.

The issue is not a demographic % matter. The only question is whether we should be more concerned about a terrorist attack from an ideologically motivated Islamic terrorist group or an ideologically motivated white nationalist group, or perhaps an ideologically motivated environmental terrorist group or perhaps an anarchist... ALL should be a concern for law enforcement, but for quite awhile all the public attention was on the Islamic threat, despite the domestic white nationalist threat actually being more prevalent these past 15 years, at least here in the US. That was causing us to look at our fellow US citizens who are Muslims, who have actually had very little terrorist activity, very differently than the far more prevalent threat from our fellow citizens who are white nationalists.

But it's all an issue. This boogaloo movement is serious, as are a number of others.

[PizzaSnake]

The real question before the US civil society is what they can do about any terrorist attacks.
Why do some citizens engage in terrorism? Why do non-citizens engage in terrorism?

What is it about the US that invites these attacks?

Now those are something to consider. No amount of interdiction or reactive law enforcement
will address this situation.

These actors need to choose not to engage in these activities.