Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[DMac]

I understand where the Chairman is coming from. Nigggahh has been deemed an unacceptable and offensive word, but only for some. There's a time and a place for it, and the black community 100 percent calls the shots on that. Black Tommy yells down from his window to the court, "Hey nigggahhs, can I come down and play?" All's good. White Chairman hollars down from a couple of windows over, "Hey niggggaahs, can I come down and play?" All's well? I don't like hearing blacks use it but I do think I get it...still sounds offensive to me though.
Some time back, black guy was sitting on the deck with us at the watering hole, was the only black guy on the deck, were only 6 or 7 people there and we weren't altogether. Black guy had to have said niggahhh forty two times in the first five minutes he was there. I found it really offensive, rough on the ears. Time and place, and it wasn't there. I went over and talked to him, asked if would stop with it as it really made me uncomfortable and I didn't like it at all. Was nothing agressive or hostile about the moment at all. He was pretty receptive and respected what I was saying and he didn't use it anymore. All was well. There is a double standard with this word. Is it offensive, or not? I think that's all the Chairman is saying.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

Policy questions? Please repeat those.

What movement and who do you define as the movement. All people who don’t support the behavior, choices and activities of this president? Black people tired of unnecessarily being murdered by white people with authority that are never held accountable?

The movement is fringe and if you’re suggesting that it’s all dissenters of this president or the “blue wall of silence” then you aren’t serious and what are YOU doing on this forum? Fringe doesn’t deserve the keys types by those that point at this and that birdie to deflect from
REAL problems that CITIZENS of the USA are having.

And the idea that everybody and every group hits it’s target means that all of Wall Street isn’t serious because they have never since Buttonwood hit and stood at equilibrium pricing. Even by definition the word movement itself means looking to change something. Doesn’t mean it is the Platonic essence of the idea. That’s ludicrous.

i think that's the problem- the movement- whatever that is- is amorphous. part of the battle cry is, if youre not doing anything, youre at fault (see the JB quote). if im going to blamed for society's ills centuries ago, i need to know what im being blamed for.

Someone else replied on this but I would be similar in that it seems like shadenfrued on your part, happens in cases to all of us.

Again, I see the modern world expectation as simply full on empathy. Not defending indefensible and twisting every piece of information to support a guy getting shot in the back, choked to death or their neck snapped and then having little to no consequence and it happen again (and again). Just serious empathy.

As for the statues, the long term defense of indefensible clear cut ones, the insistence in many places, significantly in one region of the country, has produced this more extreme response, but not only the gross defenses of it, but the utter silence and lack of empathy from a lot of decent people has contributed greatly to this outcome today. If you don’t see that then your on a side that’s going to take generations to come to agreement on.

I get it. If I was on a college campus right now I’d probably be punching douchy hipsters out by the quad. Grew up in a world personally where “you tell the fu*%inf offense what your scheme is, out execute and jam the ball back up there a**”. None of this over the top, bend over backwards stuff. What I think it seems you are so vehemently rejecting is the modern, millenial version of the middle class white women (or guy but in my life it always seemed like it was the nice housewives) who claim to like Black people like Bill Cosby, Jesse Jackson and OJ (who once claimed to not be black) and say it’s a shame when horrors were still occurring and apologetic but not really helping that group get to a better place in our country. Just talk.

But the extreme, jerky comments and binary, nuance lacing notes I’m quoting here aren’t serious and don’t appear to care if black folks get any further along from this state we’re in now.

why tell me what im thinking? for the record- it's not schadenfreude. i would know what im thinking better than you would know what im thinking.

you also tried to tell me grant didnt have a slave. because we werent there. (also wrong about sarcasm)

do you equate silence/inaction with guilt in the current movement?

we've painted ourselves into a corner; an impossible standard. it's a paradox; we are told people can never possibly understand what people of another color are experiencing. yet, we are now also told that inaction is to blame. and so the only answer is to the toe the line- help without really understanding. empathize, but don't because you can't.

thanks for discussing.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

Really think folks should check out the Chappelle bit. It’s raw and in front of a limited crowd at some outdoor venue who clearly were expecting more jokes.

One good point was an anecdote of a black former military service member turned cop who reported excessive force by his partner, was reprimanded himself led the force and shot four white cops. When they showed up it was “with like 400 of cops and they Swiss cheesed his a**.“ Why, because he killed some of them but then they don’t understand why they’re getting the reaction from black people from this stuff that’s going on, citing a few references. The hypocrisy he pointed out is stark.

why should i. he uses the N word. it's offensive. we should cancel him.

... or is it just art, and therefore exempt.

Is this a serious policy question?

yes. the question is- is the word inherently offensive. if yes, he shouldnt use it. no one should, ever. full stop. if no, why the lack of outrage.

or is it exempt as art. he's just expressing himself, and that's protected. if so, that's convenient. when it's my guy, it's art. when it's your guy, it's offensive.

Let me say this, and I may get a verbal prison raping from the Dis/Brook/Doc crowd for this:

I do believe it’s ok for black people to say it and not for white people to. Maybe that makes me not evolved enough for some, but it’s what I believe today.

That’s what makes listening to a banger like Hit Em Up so hard. And that is art, more importantly it’s a visceral representation of the worst implications of gangster rap which was heavily promoted by corporate America. I was a senior when Tupac and Biggie were murdered and everyone was sure it was all related to each other (not to mention the outlaw who was killed in a stairwell in Orange, NJ a week or two after Tupac was gunned down). The producer of that track said he’d never work on something like that again. And whatever you might think of Rap, if you can appreciate Transcendent talent and tried to check Tupac our you’d recognize this Is the case with him and the world lost somebody on that level. On par w LeBron, Elon Musk, Daniel day Lewis, etc. (and my favorite musicians only include a few rappers/groups, favorite band is a lesser known punk rock band called the Pixies, love me some Pogues, Cream, Dire Straits, Pink Floyd, Dead, Police and also went to a ton of early Blues Traveler, DMB, Rusted Root and Phish shows first half of the 1990s while in HS).

i think it's ok that you think that.

i disagree with it, of course. it's a double standard. it's anti-equality. it says we are not the same. and the word contextually carries a history and much pain. no one should be exempt. otherwise it reduces meaning that it once had.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

dmac- look at us, we are now actually having a productive, non-flaming, point/counterpoint discussion.

[DMac]

Kinda like before we ever met Peter Brown?

[Typical Lax Dad]

I understand where the Chairman is coming from. Nigggahh has been deemed an unacceptable and offensive word, but only for some. There's a time and a place for it, and the black community 100 percent calls the shots on that. Black Tommy yells down from his window to the court, "Hey nigggahhs, can I come down and play?" All's good. White Chairman hollars down from a couple of windows over, "Hey niggggaahs, can I come down and play?" All's well? I don't like hearing blacks use it but I do think I get it...still sounds offensive to me though.
Some time back, black guy was sitting on the deck with us at the watering hole, was the only black guy on the deck, were only 6 or 7 people there and we weren't altogether. Black guy had to have said niggahhh forty two times in the first five minutes he was there. I found it really offensive, rough on the ears. Time and place, and it wasn't there. I went over and talked to him, asked if would stop with it as it really made me uncomfortable and I didn't like it at all. Was nothing agressive or hostile about the moment at all. He was pretty receptive and respected what I was saying and he didn't use it anymore. All was well. There is a double standard with this word. Is it offensive, or not? I think that's all the Chairman is saying.

Is “boy” offensive or not? Chairman ain’t stupid..... Waiting on him to roll down to a hoop court and use the N-word like he said he would. Girls call each other “bitches” all the time now....let Chairman try it. It is a tired old argument. Same guy that believes housing discrimination is fine.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

Kinda like before we ever met Peter Brown?

i do recall the old days... but also try my best to welcome all opinions. it's a discussion forum after all!

[Peter Brown]

Hey look, a perfectly peaceful human being washing his car in Brooklyn NYC and a Democratic core voter comes up and wasted him with two bullets to the head. Gotta be proud to support the disintegration of NYC. Maybe de Blasio’s wife can tear down a statue or two.

The future the liberals want:

https://twitter.com/breaking911/status/ ... 03459?s=21

The story:

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny ... story.html

Gotta love the Dems!!! You should vote for them.

[Peter Brown]

Kinda like before we ever met Peter Brown?

I must have missed you solving racism, over incarceration, and wealth inequality when I wasn’t here. Good job. Should have congratulated you. I'm sure you feel good about yourself. You need a raise.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Hey look, a perfectly peaceful human being washing his car in Brooklyn NYC and a Democratic core voter comes up and wasted him with two bullets to the head. Gotta be proud to support the disintegration of NYC. Maybe de Blasio’s wife can tear down a statue or two.

The future the liberals want:

https://twitter.com/breaking911/status/ ... 03459?s=21

The story:

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny ... story.html

Gotta love the Dems!!! You should vote for them.

https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/gambino- ... -know.html

[DMac]

We could throw a list of words like that up here, TLD. Pretty much going to have the same discussion with all of them. Back in the LP days I once described the play I saw from Myles Jones in the Dome as lazy. The wrath of hell came upon me. I thought of no color when I used the word lazy, I was describing a player's play (jftr, it was an accurate description), but I guess I've learned my lesson with that word too. White Chairman doesn't mow his lawn and I might think he's just lazy. Black Tommy doesn't mow his lawn and I might think he's just not motivated to. Think I've got it.

[Typical Lax Dad]

We could throw a list of words like that up here, TLD. Pretty much going to have the same discussion with all of them. Back in the LP days I once described the play I saw from Myles Jones in the Dome as lazy. The wrath of hell came upon me. I thought of no color when I used the word lazy, I was describing a player's play (jftr, it was an accurate description), but I guess I've learned my lesson with that word too. White Chairman doesn't mow his lawn and I might think he's just lazy. Black Tommy doesn't mow his lawn and I might think he's just not motivated to. Think I've got it.

The only problem with lazy is that there was a stigma attached to it and black athletes for years and years. The price you were paying for the sins of others. JR Richard’s pitching career was ruined because he was stereotyped as “ lazy”. Manager kept running his lazy ass out there until he had a stroke. Myles isn’t lazy, that is a lot of weight to carry and he is nor particularly quick. I don’t really like his game. Tal Bruno looked the same way and nobody ever would call him lazy. It would be “he is giving it all he’s got!”....people can be sensitive but it didn’t happen out of nowhere. You can’t improve as much as Myles improved and be lazy. I knew what you meant though.

“But something was wrong. Starting in May, Richard said that he didn't feel right. He went to the Astros doctors, and they couldn't find anything wrong with him. The front office (i.e. Tal Smith) was letting it slip that it was all in Richard's head and that he was lazy.

On July 30, 1980 Richard collapsed on the Astrodome turf while playing catch. He had suffered a massive stroke. And for weeks, the question wasn't whether Richard would ever pitch again; it was whether he would live. He lived, and he tried to make a comeback, but he never made it back to the majors and retired in 1983.”

[Peter Brown]

Yale was named after an actual slave trader.

I demand all Democratic birdbrains force Yale to change its name.

We can’t have this!!

https://scroll.in/magazine/829298/the-i ... ty-founder

Where is your outrage Dems! Tearing down statues of Grant who actually freed slaves, but not a word on Elijuh Yale a guy who traded slaves as income!!!

C’mon MD. Compromise here. C’mon DMac, where’s the hysteria!

’s.

[Farfromgeneva]

what's the difference. he's sorry. and did some other goods, maybe.

(also do we think MeToo wouldve considered hemings to have properly consented)

Must be some reason you felt compelled to add it in. What were you thinking the value of including it is? In your words.

he's a bad guy. no?

a white male, privileged, insider, slaveowner. wrote the rules and then didnt follow them.

I don’t think I can pretend to know what he is, not should anyone else, beyond the evidence we have in hand.

that's fair. though some here at FL have told me what i think or what my feelings are on a topic. pure synthesis.

can you pretend that... grant didnt have a slave? you werent there. neither was i.

so TJ didnt have slaves, fine. didnt say black people smell, are mentally inferior, fine. i wasnt there either.

what if you went over to CHAZ in seattle. handed someone a 20. they would either say: (a) the cause tells me this is a symbol of oppression, im tearing it up; or (b) i really need the money and this is convenient. or (c), andrew jackson had slaves i thought he was a D

thank you for discussing.

Where is your policy question here?

the question is why do we give a pass to a racist slaveholder. the answer given was- he built the union that ended up outlawing slavery. forget all the other stuff. he said sorry.

and so the logical conclusion is- it's ok when it's my guy.

Don’t agree with your conclusion but you can see why a serious question wasn’t obvious and sarcasm was inferred.

I’d suggest it’s more like what’s the whole body of work, what did it look like linearally over his/her life and what was the trend at the end-kind of like NCAA BB at large selections.

I don’t see anyone on here stating or suggesting anything close to “it’s ok if it’s my guy”

i don't but i suppose that's my problem and not yours.

that's all i ask- let's look at the body of work.

unfortunately, that's not how today's mob works. one blackface, one social media post, one slip up- youre cancelled. (unless youre exempt)

so when grant's statue comes down- we should take into account that he... didnt exactly "purchase" a slave. nor forced him into labor. fought to preserve the union. and then emancipated him. within a year. statute stays up, right? whoops.

now general george... ohhh he "struggled" with the institution of slavery. for 56 years!!!

I will admit I think Jefferson, Washington and possibly even Grant are beyond what I think is reasonable though I'd submit the context of where, when and why they were erected could make me open to even those. It's a very clear fact that many were put up specifically to send a message in the 20th century to blacks of their place. Not exactly sure how Washington argument would be made, Jefferson could potentially see and Grant connection being the war itself (I don't know if this was ever the case, but could see a scenario where one was thrown up in the 1930s-1960s to say to black people, we won a war for you so we're all good STFU, not dissimilar to the bizarre argument that we've gotten past racism because Obama was elected).

[Farfromgeneva]

Policy questions? Please repeat those.

What movement and who do you define as the movement. All people who don’t support the behavior, choices and activities of this president? Black people tired of unnecessarily being murdered by white people with authority that are never held accountable?

The movement is fringe and if you’re suggesting that it’s all dissenters of this president or the “blue wall of silence” then you aren’t serious and what are YOU doing on this forum? Fringe doesn’t deserve the keys types by those that point at this and that birdie to deflect from
REAL problems that CITIZENS of the USA are having.

And the idea that everybody and every group hits it’s target means that all of Wall Street isn’t serious because they have never since Buttonwood hit and stood at equilibrium pricing. Even by definition the word movement itself means looking to change something. Doesn’t mean it is the Platonic essence of the idea. That’s ludicrous.

i think that's the problem- the movement- whatever that is- is amorphous. part of the battle cry is, if youre not doing anything, youre at fault (see the JB quote). if im going to blamed for society's ills centuries ago, i need to know what im being blamed for.

Someone else replied on this but I would be similar in that it seems like shadenfrued on your part, happens in cases to all of us.

Again, I see the modern world expectation as simply full on empathy. Not defending indefensible and twisting every piece of information to support a guy getting shot in the back, choked to death or their neck snapped and then having little to no consequence and it happen again (and again). Just serious empathy.

As for the statues, the long term defense of indefensible clear cut ones, the insistence in many places, significantly in one region of the country, has produced this more extreme response, but not only the gross defenses of it, but the utter silence and lack of empathy from a lot of decent people has contributed greatly to this outcome today. If you don’t see that then your on a side that’s going to take generations to come to agreement on.

I get it. If I was on a college campus right now I’d probably be punching douchy hipsters out by the quad. Grew up in a world personally where “you tell the fu*%inf offense what your scheme is, out execute and jam the ball back up there a**”. None of this over the top, bend over backwards stuff. What I think it seems you are so vehemently rejecting is the modern, millenial version of the middle class white women (or guy but in my life it always seemed like it was the nice housewives) who claim to like Black people like Bill Cosby, Jesse Jackson and OJ (who once claimed to not be black) and say it’s a shame when horrors were still occurring and apologetic but not really helping that group get to a better place in our country. Just talk.

But the extreme, jerky comments and binary, nuance lacing notes I’m quoting here aren’t serious and don’t appear to care if black folks get any further along from this state we’re in now.

why tell me what im thinking? for the record- it's not schadenfreude. i would know what im thinking better than you would know what im thinking.

you also tried to tell me grant didnt have a slave. because we werent there. (also wrong about sarcasm)

do you equate silence/inaction with guilt in the current movement?

we've painted ourselves into a corner; an impossible standard. it's a paradox; we are told people can never possibly understand what people of another color are experiencing. yet, we are now also told that inaction is to blame. and so the only answer is to the toe the line- help without really understanding. empathize, but don't because you can't.

thanks for discussing.

Wrong place to bold, I said "seems like it is..." not that it is and the other part I wrote was intended to point out that as a cohort we've done that, not everyone, not what is stated. Re-read it - "the utter lack of empathy from a lot of decent people has contributed..." Nowhere in there did I say "YOUR utter lack of empathy". Would you agree across the country in the last 40-50yrs this is too broadly true? I literally stated that many have, not that you have.

I never told you Grant didn't have a slave. That's completely untrue. And if my fat fingers on a phone and spellcheck put that up, point it out and I'll correct it, but I'm fairly certain you're either confusing someone elses post for mine or seriously misreading something. I did suggest that it was inappropriate to include "possible rapist" in describing Jefferson. There's a record of what's what, obviously winners tell the story and no story is complete, but there's not enough to suggest this is true unless you can point me to historical evidence of this.

I don't understand your silence question at all. Maybe I'm obtuse. If responding to what I wrote, what I am saying is that the over the top, perhaps violent and militant reaction were getting now across the country is partly a function of decades of silence and inaction to gross miscarriages of justice and human rights to black people and/or a lack of accountability after the fact. Not the only reason, but it's a meaningful contribution to where we are at today. I then think Antifa and mustache wearing hipsters are the modern version of 60s hippies, glorified by the boomers, but the reality boots on the ground was very different. My dad used to joke that he's all for peace, love and folk music, but that this was a tiny part of what the hippie culture was and most were dirty, reckless and selfish kids excusing crappy behavior with the movement. Sound familiar?

But I do believe we can never understand what a black person goes through. Best we can do is empathy and speaking up against clear injustice, but that standard doesn't seem to be valued by some including here. It's funny how you mention "my guy" but it sure seems like MAGA/QAnon/OAN lovers (distinguished from Republicans, Trump isn't a Republican and many of his followers worldview is not Republican, I haven't handed the party and run off from them yet, holding my ground, for now) in general are far more all-in than Democrats. I would suggest the Hopkins roster sized primaries this and last year demonstrate that. Just the "winner" (Biden) isn't as divisive as Trump was when he beat a weak field in 2015-2016.

[Farfromgeneva]

I understand where the Chairman is coming from. Nigggahh has been deemed an unacceptable and offensive word, but only for some. There's a time and a place for it, and the black community 100 percent calls the shots on that. Black Tommy yells down from his window to the court, "Hey nigggahhs, can I come down and play?" All's good. White Chairman hollars down from a couple of windows over, "Hey niggggaahs, can I come down and play?" All's well? I don't like hearing blacks use it but I do think I get it...still sounds offensive to me though.
Some time back, black guy was sitting on the deck with us at the watering hole, was the only black guy on the deck, were only 6 or 7 people there and we weren't altogether. Black guy had to have said niggahhh forty two times in the first five minutes he was there. I found it really offensive, rough on the ears. Time and place, and it wasn't there. I went over and talked to him, asked if would stop with it as it really made me uncomfortable and I didn't like it at all. Was nothing agressive or hostile about the moment at all. He was pretty receptive and respected what I was saying and he didn't use it anymore. All was well. There is a double standard with this word. Is it offensive, or not? I think that's all the Chairman is saying.

How about this:

For white people - 100% of the time it's offensive

For Black people - case by case

Is that so unreasonable?

[Farfromgeneva]

Really think folks should check out the Chappelle bit. It’s raw and in front of a limited crowd at some outdoor venue who clearly were expecting more jokes.

One good point was an anecdote of a black former military service member turned cop who reported excessive force by his partner, was reprimanded himself led the force and shot four white cops. When they showed up it was “with like 400 of cops and they Swiss cheesed his a**.“ Why, because he killed some of them but then they don’t understand why they’re getting the reaction from black people from this stuff that’s going on, citing a few references. The hypocrisy he pointed out is stark.

why should i. he uses the N word. it's offensive. we should cancel him.

... or is it just art, and therefore exempt.

Is this a serious policy question?

yes. the question is- is the word inherently offensive. if yes, he shouldnt use it. no one should, ever. full stop. if no, why the lack of outrage.

or is it exempt as art. he's just expressing himself, and that's protected. if so, that's convenient. when it's my guy, it's art. when it's your guy, it's offensive.

Let me say this, and I may get a verbal prison raping from the Dis/Brook/Doc crowd for this:

I do believe it’s ok for black people to say it and not for white people to. Maybe that makes me not evolved enough for some, but it’s what I believe today.

That’s what makes listening to a banger like Hit Em Up so hard. And that is art, more importantly it’s a visceral representation of the worst implications of gangster rap which was heavily promoted by corporate America. I was a senior when Tupac and Biggie were murdered and everyone was sure it was all related to each other (not to mention the outlaw who was killed in a stairwell in Orange, NJ a week or two after Tupac was gunned down). The producer of that track said he’d never work on something like that again. And whatever you might think of Rap, if you can appreciate Transcendent talent and tried to check Tupac our you’d recognize this Is the case with him and the world lost somebody on that level. On par w LeBron, Elon Musk, Daniel day Lewis, etc. (and my favorite musicians only include a few rappers/groups, favorite band is a lesser known punk rock band called the Pixies, love me some Pogues, Cream, Dire Straits, Pink Floyd, Dead, Police and also went to a ton of early Blues Traveler, DMB, Rusted Root and Phish shows first half of the 1990s while in HS).

i think it's ok that you think that.

i disagree with it, of course. it's a double standard. it's anti-equality. it says we are not the same. and the word contextually carries a history and much pain. no one should be exempt. otherwise it reduces meaning that it once had.

To me that feels condescending and as if speaking for black people, but it's a better position than "sure, fair game for all n*@#a!" IMO. We will likely at least for the time being simply disagree on this. Just like you seem so sensitive, even taking things out of what I've written that don't say what you think, how can we speak for black people on this? Quite a paradox, no?

[Farfromgeneva]

We could throw a list of words like that up here, TLD. Pretty much going to have the same discussion with all of them. Back in the LP days I once described the play I saw from Myles Jones in the Dome as lazy. The wrath of hell came upon me. I thought of no color when I used the word lazy, I was describing a player's play (jftr, it was an accurate description), but I guess I've learned my lesson with that word too. White Chairman doesn't mow his lawn and I might think he's just lazy. Black Tommy doesn't mow his lawn and I might think he's just not motivated to. Think I've got it.

The only problem with lazy is that there was a stigma attached to it and black athletes for years and years. The price you were paying for the sins of others. JR Richard’s pitching career was ruined because he was stereotyped as “ lazy”. Manager kept running his lazy ass out there until he had a stroke. Myles isn’t lazy, that is a lot of weight to carry and he is nor particularly quick. I don’t really like his game. Tal Bruno looked the same way and nobody ever would call him lazy. It would be “he is giving it all he’s got!”....people can be sensitive but it didn’t happen out of nowhere. You can’t improve as much as Myles improved and be lazy. I knew what you meant though.

“But something was wrong. Starting in May, Richard said that he didn't feel right. He went to the Astros doctors, and they couldn't find anything wrong with him. The front office (i.e. Tal Smith) was letting it slip that it was all in Richard's head and that he was lazy.

On July 30, 1980 Richard collapsed on the Astrodome turf while playing catch. He had suffered a massive stroke. And for weeks, the question wasn't whether Richard would ever pitch again; it was whether he would live. He lived, and he tried to make a comeback, but he never made it back to the majors and retired in 1983.”

Got zero value but I still have his rookie card. Promising pitcher. Was white and black, but given the timeframe have to wonder how much Yayo may or may not have been involved. Fergie Jenkins once told me a story about throwing down a ball in the locker room and we have a lot of evidence of Vida Blue, not to mention the late 70's Pirates team and basically 80% of MLB from 1981-1987.

[youthathletics]

I think Yale should change their name. Elihu was a slave trader. Yale U must go.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elihu_Yale

[Typical Lax Dad]

We could throw a list of words like that up here, TLD. Pretty much going to have the same discussion with all of them. Back in the LP days I once described the play I saw from Myles Jones in the Dome as lazy. The wrath of hell came upon me. I thought of no color when I used the word lazy, I was describing a player's play (jftr, it was an accurate description), but I guess I've learned my lesson with that word too. White Chairman doesn't mow his lawn and I might think he's just lazy. Black Tommy doesn't mow his lawn and I might think he's just not motivated to. Think I've got it.

The only problem with lazy is that there was a stigma attached to it and black athletes for years and years. The price you were paying for the sins of others. JR Richard’s pitching career was ruined because he was stereotyped as “ lazy”. Manager kept running his lazy ass out there until he had a stroke. Myles isn’t lazy, that is a lot of weight to carry and he is nor particularly quick. I don’t really like his game. Tal Bruno looked the same way and nobody ever would call him lazy. It would be “he is giving it all he’s got!”....people can be sensitive but it didn’t happen out of nowhere. You can’t improve as much as Myles improved and be lazy. I knew what you meant though.

“But something was wrong. Starting in May, Richard said that he didn't feel right. He went to the Astros doctors, and they couldn't find anything wrong with him. The front office (i.e. Tal Smith) was letting it slip that it was all in Richard's head and that he was lazy.

On July 30, 1980 Richard collapsed on the Astrodome turf while playing catch. He had suffered a massive stroke. And for weeks, the question wasn't whether Richard would ever pitch again; it was whether he would live. He lived, and he tried to make a comeback, but he never made it back to the majors and retired in 1983.”

Got zero value but I still have his rookie card. Promising pitcher. Was white and black, but given the timeframe have to wonder how much Yayo may or may not have been involved. Fergie Jenkins once told me a story about throwing down a ball in the locker room and we have a lot of evidence of Vida Blue, not to mention the late 70's Pirates team and basically 80% of MLB from 1981-1987.

JR was dominant at his peak. Would not surprise me if substances were involved. I had read a long article a few years ago about the idea that he was lazy and was making excuses to not pitch. I could never understand why an athlete would be happier sitting on the bench and watching the game instead of playing. I can see wanting to avoid practice. I had a lacrosse teammate that didn’t like to practice, but everyone wants to play (usually).