Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[Matnum PI]

SEC and Mississippi flag. https://twitter.com/SEC/status/1273759965329731585?s=19

[njbill]

bill -- does Rolfe get a bail hearing before a Judge, or is it just the DA's call ?

Don’t know Georgia law, but I would be virtually 100% certain he will get a bail hearing before a judge. The judge will set bail. The DA makes a recommendation, but it is the judge’s decision.

I’d be quite surprised if the judge doesn’t set bail. Don’t have a feel for what the amount will be, but I suspect his brothers will pitch in to help him make bail.

While the gravity of the offense is factored in, two key factors are flight risk and danger to the community. I would think the judge will conclude the officer is not a flight risk or a danger to the community.

Rolfe is currently being held without bail. He will go before a magistrate tomorrow. This article doesn’t say whether this is an arraignment or a bail hearing or what. I would certainly think his attorney would be entitled to ask for bail at this hearing.

Of course, they have to ask for bail; the judge won’t grant bail without a request. I wonder if the attorney and his client have decided not to seek bail for the time being to let things cool down.

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/bre ... o5TVs6sgM/

[Typical Lax Dad]

SEC and Mississippi flag. https://twitter.com/SEC/status/1273759965329731585?s=19

Good riddance. Why not go back to the original flag instead of the post civil war flag? Stop sending them federal money if they want to waive the flag of a traitor. What’s more offensive, taking a knee during the national anthem or waiving the flag of the traitors that lost the war. Go back to the original flag or pay the price.

[a fan]

Wait a second. You wanted the cops to let Mr Brooks go & walk home.
You wouldn't volunteer to serve the warrant the next day ?

Unarmed, and alone, as Pete is suggesting? Nope.

Who would you take with you, besides the Mayor, of course ?

I don't understand your reaction to my suggestions, OS.

Is that police officer's career over? You bet. Is it possible that he's going to serve time? You bet.

And yet you're acting like I'm crazy to suggest that following that man on foot over a DUI is a bad choice for everyone concerned.


You seem to be missing the idea here------I'm protecting the police officer every bit as much as I'm defending the man who ran....

[Typical Lax Dad]

Wait a second. You wanted the cops to let Mr Brooks go & walk home.
You wouldn't volunteer to serve the warrant the next day ?

Unarmed, and alone, as Pete is suggesting? Nope.

Who would you take with you, besides the Mayor, of course ?

I don't understand your reaction to my suggestions, OS.

Is that police officer's career over? You bet. Is it possible that he's going to serve time? You bet.

And yet you're acting like I'm crazy to suggest that following that man on foot over a DUI is a bad choice for everyone concerned.


You seem to be missing the idea here------I'm protecting the police officer every bit as much as I'm defending guy the man who ran....

Follow the guy....call for more backup....wait for him to sit down....make an arrest with more support...Rolfe keeps his job and an American that didn’t commit a violent crime is still alive. Has the toxicology report come out?

[njbill]

Brooks blew .108 on the Breathometer. You can see the number in one of the videos. Legal limit in Georgia is .08. Also there have been press reports about the number. Don’t know if he had any drugs in his system.

[youthathletics]

Letting him just run away.....What if he car jacks a family with the stolen police taser? Would they know the count of how many times it went off and that it was rendered useless. Or he simply stole a car and killed someone since he was under the influence.

They also may have already known he was a dangerous man if they ran his plates prior to approaching him....may be why two cops were there.

[a fan]

Letting him just run away.....What if he car jacks a family with the stolen police taser? Would they know the count of how many times it went off and that it was rendered useless. Or he simply stole a car and killed someone since he was under the influence.

Asked and answered. California already has a "do not pursue" procedure in place, right now. They've had it for years now. And the Earth keeps on spinning.

You gents think this was the only---and best----available outcome: one dead citizen, and a ruined policeman who might spend years in jail. As I said before...you have to spin quite the yarn to come up with a worse outcome than that.

Agree to disagree, I guess.



What I'm suggesting isn't foreign to OS. Post flight evaluations are done for a reason.

[njbill]

Rolfe had three basic options. One, he could let Brooks go, do the paperwork to get a warrant, and then track him down and arrest him using good old fashioned police work. Two, he could have continued to chase him and call for back up. Three, he could shoot him in the back which carried with it a high chance of killing him as well as a risk to bystanders.

I think it is speculative to say Brooks would have car jacked a car or stolen a car, but certainly possible. The cop spent 45 minutes with this guy so he has a better feel for him than any of us on this board. If based on that, he thought the guy was some type of risk to carjack, then employ option two.

It seems highly likely that between the two of them, the cops could have kept the guy within eyesight. Once back up arrives, Brooks is either arrested without incident or subdued by the vastly superior force of multiple cops. Remember, at this point his taser is out of ammo. He is unarmed. The cops knew that because they had interrogated him and frisked him.

Option three was very dangerous because of the proximity of innocent bystanders, not to mention the substantial risk of killing Brooks. Rolfe fired three shots. Two hit Brooks, but one missed and hit a bystander’s car which had multiple people in it. What if one or two of the bullets that hit Brooks had also missed and entered that car? What if, God forbid, someone in that car had been hit?

I understand why his lawyer and fellow cops are trotting out the usual “he feared for his life” excuse, but the video clearly shows that isn’t the case. He seems to be running after Brooks as fast as he can and is within 10 or 15 feet of him. If he truly was fearful, no way he would have run after him that quickly. He would have approached him much more cautiously, using vehicles, trees, etc. as cover. He knew Brooks had a functioning taser, but didn’t seem to be concerned about it as he was running pell-mell toward him.

I think what happened is that he was pissed off that Brooks had been able to escape from two cops. Brooks had gotten the better of them, and Rolfe didn’t like that. Macho adrenaline took over. He then used extremely poor judgment and unjustifiably and illegally shot Brooks in the back while at the same time endangering bystanders.

[6x6]

How much does stress and adrenaline play in the choices we make? A different occupation in the article but it is explained pretty well. People have stated cops need more training or perhaps different training. Even when adequately trained, can stress and adrenaline become a factor why he or she might fail to follow that training?

A fan I know many jurisdictions have codified vehicle chase policies, are you suggesting agencies should do the same for other situations officers might encounter on foot? I’ve not heard that Cali has done that very thing.

Overcoming Adrenaline

25th October 2019

You get the call. Whether you are a seasoned Responder or first aider in the workplace, you weren’t expecting it. If you happen upon the casualty in the street, you certainly weren’t expecting it.

At this moment a chain reaction of events begins to unfold.
Brain Anatomy Anotated Logo.png
Phase 1. Your amygdala - which is responsible for emotions - sends a message to your hypothalamus – which is responsible for regulating hormones - that turd just got real. Your hypothalamus then sends signals along the sympathetic nervous system to the adrenal glands, specifically to the adrenal medulla, which secrete adrenaline and noradrenaline into the blood stream. Adrenaline raises the heart rate; noradrenaline raises blood pressure. You can feel your heart pounding in your chest.

You now only have a couple of seconds to take back control.

Phase 2. If the fear continues for more than a few seconds, the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis is activated. The hypothalamus releases a hormone called corticotropin releasing hormone, which stimulates the pituitary gland to secrete adrenocorticotropic hormone, which in turn stimulates the the adrenal cortex, to produce cortisol. Cortisol, among other things, increases the supply of blood glucose to make more energy available, enabling the ‘fight or flight’ reflex.

The fight or flight reflex is a primordial response to fear, originally designed to get us out of trouble but now largely sends us into a blind panic. Your muscles are fueled with energy and our ability to make rational decisions diminished, instead we make rash, emotional decisions. Badly.

Adrenaline is preparing us to do stupid things quickly.



The most simplest of motor skills become a challenge as you wear the ‘boxing gloves of panic’*
(like trying to quickly get dressed when you hear their partner arrive home early).

We lose our peripheral field of vision focusing on the cause of the anxiety – known as ‘object fixation’ (1, 2)

We lose our ability to multi-task or retain situational awareness. Now all you can think about the cause of the anxiety. (3-5).

We make emotional decisions rather than considered decisions (6-8).

We lose our ability to solve problems, instead we keep trying the same thing again and again despite repeated failure “why isn’t this working!!!” (9-15)

[a fan]

How much does stress and adrenaline play in the choices we make? A different occupation in the article but it is explained pretty well. People have stated cops need more training or perhaps different training. Even when adequately trained, can stress and adrenaline become a factor why he or she might fail to follow that training?

Reminds me of the Mike Tyson quote: "everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth".

A fan I know many jurisdictions have codified vehicle chase policies, are you suggesting agencies should do the same for other situations officers might encounter on foot?

Yes! Train them to walk away BEFORE they get "punched in the mouth", and they are put in really difficult situations that rarely end well.

As I was saying to OS-----this is about preserving everyone in the situation. The police. The alleged felons. The innocent bystanders. And the community as a whole.

Is ANYONE happy with the outcome in Atlanta? Hell no. So what can we do to keep that from happening again?

[old salt]

Letting him just run away.....What if he car jacks a family with the stolen police taser? Would they know the count of how many times it went off and that it was rendered useless. Or he simply stole a car and killed someone since he was under the influence.

Asked and answered. California already has a "do not pursue" procedure in place, right now. They've had it for years now. And the Earth keeps on spinning.

You gents think this was the only---and best----available outcome: one dead citizen, and a ruined policeman who might spend years in jail. As I said before...you have to spin quite the yarn to come up with a worse outcome than that.

Agree to disagree, I guess.



What I'm suggesting isn't foreign to OS. Post flight evaluations are done for a reason.

So cops in CA don't pursue ?

So Brooks is allowed to flee. Then what ? He knows if apprehended, he's going back to jail.
Is he just going to sit at a known address & wait to be quietly taken into custody ?
He was a violent felon, agitated, under the influence, at large.
You can't assume that he was going to voluntarily surrender.

[ggait]

6x6 -- Hard to overcome adrenaline. But you can train someone to stay out of situations where the adrenaline is pumping so hard. That is basically what de-escalation training does.

Can you back off? Can you take cover? Can you call in back up? Can you stall for time? Do you really need to escalate the confrontation right now? Etc. etc. etc.

One of the main things cops currently are trained for is the 21 foot safety/danger zone. The idea being that if the perp is within 21 feet of you, you are in potential danger and, thus, are justified in defending yourself with all available force if it comes to that.

De-escalation training would not focus on whether a particular shot inside the danger zone is lawful/righteous. Instead, it would ask "could you back up to 25 feet? Could you take cover? Could you avoid this confrontation right now?"

[6ftstick]

Wait a second. You wanted the cops to let Mr Brooks go & walk home.
You wouldn't volunteer to serve the warrant the next day ?

Unarmed, and alone, as Pete is suggesting? Nope.

Who would you take with you, besides the Mayor, of course ?

I don't understand your reaction to my suggestions, OS.

Is that police officer's career over? You bet. Is it possible that he's going to serve time? You bet.

And yet you're acting like I'm crazy to suggest that following that man on foot over a DUI is a bad choice for everyone concerned.


You seem to be missing the idea here------I'm protecting the police officer every bit as much as I'm defending guy the man who ran....

Follow the guy....call for more backup....wait for him to sit down....make an arrest with more support...Rolfe keeps his job and an American that didn’t commit a violent crime is still alive. Has the toxicology report come out?

Didn't commit a violent crime. He gave one cop a concussion and fired a taser twice at the other after taking them both to the ground resisting arrest. No violence there!

[DocBarrister]

A Connecticut fourth grade social studies textbook falsely claimed that slaves were treated just like “family.” A Texas geography textbook referred to enslaved Africans as “workers.” In Alabama, up until the 1970s, fourth graders learned in a textbook called "Know Alabama" that slave life on a plantation was "one of the happiest ways of life."

In contrast, historians and educators point out, many children in the U.S. education system are not taught about major Black historical events, such as the Tulsa Race Massacre or Juneteenth, the June 19 commemoration of the end of slavery in the United States.

As the country grapples with a racial reckoning following the killing of George Floyd in police custody, educators said that what has and what has not been taught in school have been part of erasing the history of systemic racism in America and the contributions of Black people and other minority groups.

“There’s a long legacy of institutional racism that is barely covered in the mainstream corporate curriculum,” said Jesse Hagopian, an ethnic studies teacher in Seattle and co-editor of the book “Teaching for Black Lives.”

... “The curriculum was never designed to be anything other than white supremacist," Julian Hayter, a historian and an associate professor at the University of Richmond in Virginia, said, "and it has been very difficult to convince people that other versions of history are not only worth telling. They’re absolutely essential for us as a country to move closer to something that might reflect reconciliation but even more importantly, the truth."

... “Really the overarching theme is, ‘Yes, we made mistakes, but we overcame because we are the United States of America,'” said King, who is also the founding director of the Carter Center for K-12 Black History Education at the university.

“What that has done is it has erased tons of history that would combat that progressive narrative,” he said.

King said the experiences and oppression of Black people, Latino people, indigenous people, Asian people and other minority groups in the U.S. are largely ignored or sidelined to fit those narratives.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ju ... d-n1231442

DocBarrister

[foreverlax]

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

The best thing for kids is to have an intact nuclear family AND also the back-up of an extended family/village. The best thing is belt and suspenders.

The nuclear family only model is a pretty recent development. And the evidence overwhelmingly shows that it is extremely fragile and often unsustainable. Especially in today's economy where the family often has to rely upon two pay checks.

Commercial daycare has to replace a family caretaker (mom, grandmom, aunt, neighbor). And boy does the nuclear family only model collapse (economically and emotionally) if the mom/dad relationship goes south (whether the parents stay together or not).

The kids are so much better off if their economic and emotional well-being is not 100% dependent on (i) both mom and dad always staying continuously employed and (ii) always staying happily married. If the nuclear family hits a speed bump, it often crumbles. And that's when grandparents, aunts/uncles, cousins can pick up the slack for the great benefit of the kids.

Even though yucky Hillary said it, it is true. It does take a village.

Terrific article by David Brooks deep diving into this topic. Highly recommended.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ke/605536/

GG - great find!! Title will keep some from taking the time...


The Nuclear Family Was a Mistake
The family structure we’ve held up as the cultural ideal for the past half century has been a catastrophe for many. It’s time to figure out better ways to live together.

real truth...

"Finally, over the past two generations, families have grown more unequal. America now has two entirely different family regimes. Among the highly educated, family patterns are almost as stable as they were in the 1950s; among the less fortunate, family life is often utter chaos. There’s a reason for that divide: Affluent people have the resources to effectively buy extended family, in order to shore themselves up. Think of all the child-rearing labor affluent parents now buy that used to be done by extended kin: babysitting, professional child care, tutoring, coaching, therapy, expensive after-school programs. (For that matter, think of how the affluent can hire therapists and life coaches for themselves, as replacement for kin or close friends.) These expensive tools and services not only support children’s development and help prepare them to compete in the meritocracy; by reducing stress and time commitments for parents, they preserve the amity of marriage. Affluent conservatives often pat themselves on the back for having stable nuclear families. They preach that everybody else should build stable families too. But then they ignore one of the main reasons their own families are stable: They can afford to purchase the support that extended family used to provide—and that the people they preach at, further down the income scale, cannot."

So why can't extended families still work. Many people still stay close enough to parents, aunts, & uncles to benefit from their help in child rearing. Growing up I was always within walking distance of 1 set of grandparents & several great aunts & uncles.

Great question....although I would it's more like a few vs many.

[Brooklyn]

SEC and Mississippi flag. https://twitter.com/SEC/status/1273759965329731585?s=19

Did you see that "commercial"?

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1 ... 0189219841

Hilarious!

[Farfromgeneva]

I was always taught by my father that you moved where the job was, not where you wanted to go. That was his max disdain for my generation XYZ crew. But seems like based on his comments to me growing up that it is more mythology than reality. One of four in his family stayed within the county, from Savona NY one ended in suburban Roch (not that far, but that uncle was occasionally know to drive by the farm and beep on trips with his wife), one in Binghamton which isn’t close enough for them to be like babysitters or much more than a handful of times a year visit. One in York, PA which is basically a full day trip. And that’s a lower middle class WNY family of children born in the 1940s.

[Peter Brown]

The Left wants to remake America, and I keep telling some folks here that but they refuse to believe.

Now they're coming for Thomas Jefferson. He'll be gone soon. NYC Council votes to remove Jefferson. The Jefferson Memorial in DC won't last much longer either.

https://abc7ny.com/thomas-jefferson-sta ... o/6255173/

Decatur?

https://decaturish.com/2020/06/demonstr ... e-removed/

You guys are absolute fools if you think the Left has an off-switch.

Washington will come after Jefferson is removed from the public square.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/media/2019/0 ... sh-vpx.cnn

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... laves.html

They want to remove your history. And every time you grovel and compromise because you think you're doing the 'right' thing (confederate flags!), these lefty lunatics laugh at you.

[Farfromgeneva]

I’ve never heard of decaturish and am over there all the time. Fringe online village voice type publication it appears. Not even on the level of Creative Loafing. I doubt it’s read by many around Atlanta.