All things Chinese CoronaVirus

[6ftstick]

In just 24 hours, Brazil sets a grim new record with almost 35,000 new coronavirus cases

"The country, which has the second-highest number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the world, after the United States, reported 34,918 new cases and 1,282 new deaths in the past 24 hours."

Sad stuff

… another know nothing dictator

riddle me this smart rump

Why after 4 months of extreme measures to flatten the curve is Dr Faucci saying the new cases across the south and southwest are first wave related.

First wave. So nothing that could have been done since this virus flared can stop it from running its course.

Plenty could have been done. Since these other states are seeing cases now it generally is because when reopening there has been too little social distancing. Requiring mask wearing when indoors in public/stores/restaurants. Some areas still need more testing - Oklahoma's testing numbers are going down even while cases (and positive tests) are going up. But now it seems that the SD measures that work (keep 6 feet apart, minimize time indoors outside of your own home, wear masks in public) are not being used to the level they should.

And as far as your doctor Smith - he picked what ended up on the wrong side... No real data so far really supports HCQ, and in fact there IS data that says it can hurt (make other treatments less effective, side effect issues). Is he still plugging it? Then he is not helping. Science will move on to better things and leave him behind.

Excuse me. BUT Dr Faucci says this is FIRST WAVE. Not caused by REOPENING.

My doctor smith? So in your TDS you can't accept that hes a skilled intelligent physician.Hes been gettin positive results with the hydroxy combo since april.

The ease at which you dismiss him and others like him enhances the belief that this aversion to hydroxy is purely Trump driven.

Thats why I prefaced the post by wishing we had a media would could trust.

I don't care what Fauci says about first/second wave. Some states (actually many) are reopening without meeting the criteria for doing so. So they never really got over the first wave, but the reopening is what is causing the increases.

And for Dr. Smith - I will trust double blind test numbers over any single physician - no matter what his/her credentials are. And since he has been one of the ones showing up on Fox (especially Ingraham) plugging I would say that his politics are getting confused for his science or lack of.

Where is his double blind study?

So is your double blind study as accurate as the Lancets first published results.

Lets not observe reality lets believe a study that's probably driven by politics.

The doctor has saved lives. Fact.

[wgdsr]

And as far as your doctor Smith - he picked what ended up on the wrong side... No real data so far really supports HCQ, and in fact there IS data that says it can hurt (make other treatments less effective, side effect issues). Is he still plugging it? Then he is not helping. Science will move on to better things and leave him behind.

if you believe the 2nd part, then the 1st part is patently untrue. there is plenty of the same sort of data, and even better data (trials vs post-observational studies), that have shown it to be effective. and not dangerous in proper doses.

randomized clinical trials, in proper circumstances, will tell more. we're all still waiting.

as far as chose the wrong side... worldwide it continues to be the /one of the most prescribed treatments. if you haven't noticed, the game isn't over for any option.

[wgdsr]

In just 24 hours, Brazil sets a grim new record with almost 35,000 new coronavirus cases

"The country, which has the second-highest number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the world, after the United States, reported 34,918 new cases and 1,282 new deaths in the past 24 hours."

Sad stuff

… another know nothing dictator

riddle me this smart rump

Why after 4 months of extreme measures to flatten the curve is Dr Faucci saying the new cases across the south and southwest are first wave related.

First wave. So nothing that could have been done since this virus flared can stop it from running its course.

Plenty could have been done. Since these other states are seeing cases now it generally is because when reopening there has been too little social distancing. Requiring mask wearing when indoors in public/stores/restaurants. Some areas still need more testing - Oklahoma's testing numbers are going down even while cases (and positive tests) are going up. But now it seems that the SD measures that work (keep 6 feet apart, minimize time indoors outside of your own home, wear masks in public) are not being used to the level they should.

And as far as your doctor Smith - he picked what ended up on the wrong side... No real data so far really supports HCQ, and in fact there IS data that says it can hurt (make other treatments less effective, side effect issues). Is he still plugging it? Then he is not helping. Science will move on to better things and leave him behind.

The HCQ / CQ story was preordained. These are old drugs (50 years) that have been well studied. Same thing every time they are properly studied. Little to no positive effect on the disease, significant side effects - always the same. COVID-19 is at least the 10th rodeo for these drugs. There are always true believers (invested individuals on the science side) and camp followers for specific drugs. Of course the know nothings don't understand this and are easily sucked in by the con artists.

as we actually haven't had any "properly studied" trials here in the us of a, can i assume you are just preordaining in advance?

[RedFromMI]

A double blind study is considered the gold standard of determination if done properly. By comparing patients with a particular treatment with a group without that particular treatment, and with a large enough group you can use the statistics of large numbers and averages to see exactly how good a treatment is.

A good example of a double blind study (yet unpublished, but announced yesterday) is for a rather commonly used and long available steroid desamathasone. They were able to show using thousands of patients in each group (with dex and without) that for patients on ventilators there was a death rate 33% lower than without, and for patients receiving oxygen at 20% reduction in deaths. They also found that if you did not need O2 or ventilation it did not help.

The reason this particular drug is useful is it likely helps those patients who experience a cytokine storm, which is where their immune system goes into such overdrive that the side effects of that kill you.

But since steroids are immunosuppressant, it goes against the grain - why give a very sick person something that will suppress their immune system?

But it does help in certain cases. My doctor daughter says they can use this drug for children as well, so maybe even a bit safer that some steroids.

[jhu72]

In just 24 hours, Brazil sets a grim new record with almost 35,000 new coronavirus cases

"The country, which has the second-highest number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the world, after the United States, reported 34,918 new cases and 1,282 new deaths in the past 24 hours."

Sad stuff

… another know nothing dictator

riddle me this smart rump

Why after 4 months of extreme measures to flatten the curve is Dr Faucci saying the new cases across the south and southwest are first wave related.

First wave. So nothing that could have been done since this virus flared can stop it from running its course.

Plenty could have been done. Since these other states are seeing cases now it generally is because when reopening there has been too little social distancing. Requiring mask wearing when indoors in public/stores/restaurants. Some areas still need more testing - Oklahoma's testing numbers are going down even while cases (and positive tests) are going up. But now it seems that the SD measures that work (keep 6 feet apart, minimize time indoors outside of your own home, wear masks in public) are not being used to the level they should.

And as far as your doctor Smith - he picked what ended up on the wrong side... No real data so far really supports HCQ, and in fact there IS data that says it can hurt (make other treatments less effective, side effect issues). Is he still plugging it? Then he is not helping. Science will move on to better things and leave him behind.

Excuse me. BUT Dr Faucci says this is FIRST WAVE. Not caused by REOPENING.

My doctor smith? So in your TDS you can't accept that hes a skilled intelligent physician.Hes been gettin positive results with the hydroxy combo since april.

The ease at which you dismiss him and others like him enhances the belief that this aversion to hydroxy is purely Trump driven.

Thats why I prefaced the post by wishing we had a media would could trust.

What does First Wave mean?? Is there an official definition? Is your definition and Fauci's the same? You do understand that not all states have peaked at the same time in their state "first wave". A number of states did not give social distancing a real chance at working.

I did not pull the EMERGENCY USE order. Trump's FDA did!! Guys with a conscience who know the story, who know it was wrongly issued under executive pressure.

I am sorry, but non-experts don't do as good of a job as the experts. It is a fact of life. Your president and his administration prove this daily and twice on Sundays.

[RedFromMI]

And as far as your doctor Smith - he picked what ended up on the wrong side... No real data so far really supports HCQ, and in fact there IS data that says it can hurt (make other treatments less effective, side effect issues). Is he still plugging it? Then he is not helping. Science will move on to better things and leave him behind.

if you believe the 2nd part, then the 1st part is patently untrue. there is plenty of the same sort of data, and even better data (trials vs post-observational studies), that have shown it to be effective. and not dangerous in proper doses.

randomized clinical trials, in proper circumstances, will tell more. we're all still waiting.

as far as chose the wrong side... worldwide it continues to be the /one of the most prescribed treatments. if you haven't noticed, the game isn't over for any option.

FDA Warns Against Co-Administering Remdesivir with Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine

https://www.biospace.com/article/fda-wa ... loroquine/

Turmoil continues for hydroxychloroquine
While negative clinical trial results lead some researchers to cancel studies, other will push ahead

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/dru ... ine/98/i23

At least one or more of the studies mentioned in the above article was double blind.

[wgdsr]

A double blind study is considered the gold standard of determination if done properly. By comparing patients with a particular treatment with a group without that particular treatment, and with a large enough group you can use the statistics of large numbers and averages to see exactly how good a treatment is.

A good example of a double blind study (yet unpublished, but announced yesterday) is for a rather commonly used and long available steroid desamathasone. They were able to show using thousands of patients in each group (with dex and without) that for patients on ventilators there was a death rate 33% lower than without, and for patients receiving oxygen at 20% reduction in deaths. They also found that if you did not need O2 or ventilation it did not help.

The reason this particular drug is useful is it likely helps those patients who experience a cytokine storm, which is where their immune system goes into such overdrive that the side effects of that kill you.

But since steroids are immunosuppressant, it goes against the grain - why give a very sick person something that will suppress their immune system?

But it does help in certain cases. My doctor daughter says they can use this drug for children as well, so maybe even a bit safer that some steroids.

it actually was announced 3 days ago. just picked up more broadly yesterday.
and they haven't shown anything yet. as you say, yet unpublished.

the guy that ran it was having physicians give potentially lethal doses of hcq to hundreds of patients bc he mistook it for a different drug. so we all will wait on what comes of data on the trial and go from there.

hope it's ultimately useful.

[wgdsr]

And as far as your doctor Smith - he picked what ended up on the wrong side... No real data so far really supports HCQ, and in fact there IS data that says it can hurt (make other treatments less effective, side effect issues). Is he still plugging it? Then he is not helping. Science will move on to better things and leave him behind.

if you believe the 2nd part, then the 1st part is patently untrue. there is plenty of the same sort of data, and even better data (trials vs post-observational studies), that have shown it to be effective. and not dangerous in proper doses.

randomized clinical trials, in proper circumstances, will tell more. we're all still waiting.

as far as chose the wrong side... worldwide it continues to be the /one of the most prescribed treatments. if you haven't noticed, the game isn't over for any option.

FDA Warns Against Co-Administering Remdesivir with Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine

https://www.biospace.com/article/fda-wa ... loroquine/

Turmoil continues for hydroxychloroquine
While negative clinical trial results lead some researchers to cancel studies, other will push ahead

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/dru ... ine/98/i23

At least one or more of the studies mentioned in the above article was double blind.

citation? which one?

[Typical Lax Dad]

A double blind study is considered the gold standard of determination if done properly. By comparing patients with a particular treatment with a group without that particular treatment, and with a large enough group you can use the statistics of large numbers and averages to see exactly how good a treatment is.

A good example of a double blind study (yet unpublished, but announced yesterday) is for a rather commonly used and long available steroid desamathasone. They were able to show using thousands of patients in each group (with dex and without) that for patients on ventilators there was a death rate 33% lower than without, and for patients receiving oxygen at 20% reduction in deaths. They also found that if you did not need O2 or ventilation it did not help.

The reason this particular drug is useful is it likely helps those patients who experience a cytokine storm, which is where their immune system goes into such overdrive that the side effects of that kill you.

But since steroids are immunosuppressant, it goes against the grain - why give a very sick person something that will suppress their immune system?

But it does help in certain cases. My doctor daughter says they can use this drug for children as well, so maybe even a bit safer that some steroids.

This is very good news. It will help mitigate overwhelming the system.

[jhu72]

In just 24 hours, Brazil sets a grim new record with almost 35,000 new coronavirus cases

"The country, which has the second-highest number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the world, after the United States, reported 34,918 new cases and 1,282 new deaths in the past 24 hours."

Sad stuff

… another know nothing dictator

riddle me this smart rump

Why after 4 months of extreme measures to flatten the curve is Dr Faucci saying the new cases across the south and southwest are first wave related.

First wave. So nothing that could have been done since this virus flared can stop it from running its course.

Plenty could have been done. Since these other states are seeing cases now it generally is because when reopening there has been too little social distancing. Requiring mask wearing when indoors in public/stores/restaurants. Some areas still need more testing - Oklahoma's testing numbers are going down even while cases (and positive tests) are going up. But now it seems that the SD measures that work (keep 6 feet apart, minimize time indoors outside of your own home, wear masks in public) are not being used to the level they should.

And as far as your doctor Smith - he picked what ended up on the wrong side... No real data so far really supports HCQ, and in fact there IS data that says it can hurt (make other treatments less effective, side effect issues). Is he still plugging it? Then he is not helping. Science will move on to better things and leave him behind.

The HCQ / CQ story was preordained. These are old drugs (50 years) that have been well studied. Same thing every time they are properly studied. Little to no positive effect on the disease, significant side effects - always the same. COVID-19 is at least the 10th rodeo for these drugs. There are always true believers (invested individuals on the science side) and camp followers for specific drugs. Of course the know nothings don't understand this and are easily sucked in by the con artists.

as we actually haven't had any "properly studied" trials here in the us of a, can i assume you are just preordaining in advance?

You miss the point. These drugs have been tested, properly, numerous times over the last 50 years every time a new disease came along. It was tested against AIDS/HIV, SARS, Ebola, Hanta, and others. The same reason given, it shows activity against the virus in the test tube. It is always the same story. Not effective and significant risk. The same tale is emerging with COVID-19. Why should anyone be surprised?

[RedFromMI]

And as far as your doctor Smith - he picked what ended up on the wrong side... No real data so far really supports HCQ, and in fact there IS data that says it can hurt (make other treatments less effective, side effect issues). Is he still plugging it? Then he is not helping. Science will move on to better things and leave him behind.

if you believe the 2nd part, then the 1st part is patently untrue. there is plenty of the same sort of data, and even better data (trials vs post-observational studies), that have shown it to be effective. and not dangerous in proper doses.

randomized clinical trials, in proper circumstances, will tell more. we're all still waiting.

as far as chose the wrong side... worldwide it continues to be the /one of the most prescribed treatments. if you haven't noticed, the game isn't over for any option.

FDA Warns Against Co-Administering Remdesivir with Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine

https://www.biospace.com/article/fda-wa ... loroquine/

Turmoil continues for hydroxychloroquine
While negative clinical trial results lead some researchers to cancel studies, other will push ahead

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/dru ... ine/98/i23

At least one or more of the studies mentioned in the above article was double blind.

citation? which one?

N. Engl. J. Med. 2020, DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa2016638 (Minnesota study on prophylactic use)

Also (not sure anything is published yet) from the RECOVERY trial in the UK:

Two days later in the UK, investigators announced preliminary results from a study involving more than 4,600 people hospitalized with COVID-19. In the study, called the RECOVERY Trial, 25.7% of 1,542 people who got hydroxychloroquine died after 28 days, compared with 23.5% of 3,132 people who received standard care. Again, the difference was not statistically significant.

[6ftstick]

In just 24 hours, Brazil sets a grim new record with almost 35,000 new coronavirus cases

"The country, which has the second-highest number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the world, after the United States, reported 34,918 new cases and 1,282 new deaths in the past 24 hours."

Sad stuff

… another know nothing dictator

riddle me this smart rump

Why after 4 months of extreme measures to flatten the curve is Dr Faucci saying the new cases across the south and southwest are first wave related.

First wave. So nothing that could have been done since this virus flared can stop it from running its course.

Plenty could have been done. Since these other states are seeing cases now it generally is because when reopening there has been too little social distancing. Requiring mask wearing when indoors in public/stores/restaurants. Some areas still need more testing - Oklahoma's testing numbers are going down even while cases (and positive tests) are going up. But now it seems that the SD measures that work (keep 6 feet apart, minimize time indoors outside of your own home, wear masks in public) are not being used to the level they should.

And as far as your doctor Smith - he picked what ended up on the wrong side... No real data so far really supports HCQ, and in fact there IS data that says it can hurt (make other treatments less effective, side effect issues). Is he still plugging it? Then he is not helping. Science will move on to better things and leave him behind.

The HCQ / CQ story was preordained. These are old drugs (50 years) that have been well studied. Same thing every time they are properly studied. Little to no positive effect on the disease, significant side effects - always the same. COVID-19 is at least the 10th rodeo for these drugs. There are always true believers (invested individuals on the science side) and camp followers for specific drugs. Of course the know nothings don't understand this and are easily sucked in by the con artists.

as we actually haven't had any "properly studied" trials here in the us of a, can i assume you are just preordaining in advance?

You miss the point. These drugs have been tested, properly, numerous times over the last 50 years every time a new disease came along. It was tested against AIDS/HIV, SARS, Ebola, Hanta, and others. The same reason given, it shows activity against the virus in the test tube. It is always the same story. Not effective and significant risk. The same tale is emerging with COVID-19. Why should anyone be surprised?

BECAUSE ITS NOT TRUE IN EVERY CASE

Trump liked it so it sucks.

[jhu72]

In just 24 hours, Brazil sets a grim new record with almost 35,000 new coronavirus cases

"The country, which has the second-highest number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the world, after the United States, reported 34,918 new cases and 1,282 new deaths in the past 24 hours."

Sad stuff

… another know nothing dictator

riddle me this smart rump

Why after 4 months of extreme measures to flatten the curve is Dr Faucci saying the new cases across the south and southwest are first wave related.

First wave. So nothing that could have been done since this virus flared can stop it from running its course.

Plenty could have been done. Since these other states are seeing cases now it generally is because when reopening there has been too little social distancing. Requiring mask wearing when indoors in public/stores/restaurants. Some areas still need more testing - Oklahoma's testing numbers are going down even while cases (and positive tests) are going up. But now it seems that the SD measures that work (keep 6 feet apart, minimize time indoors outside of your own home, wear masks in public) are not being used to the level they should.

And as far as your doctor Smith - he picked what ended up on the wrong side... No real data so far really supports HCQ, and in fact there IS data that says it can hurt (make other treatments less effective, side effect issues). Is he still plugging it? Then he is not helping. Science will move on to better things and leave him behind.

The HCQ / CQ story was preordained. These are old drugs (50 years) that have been well studied. Same thing every time they are properly studied. Little to no positive effect on the disease, significant side effects - always the same. COVID-19 is at least the 10th rodeo for these drugs. There are always true believers (invested individuals on the science side) and camp followers for specific drugs. Of course the know nothings don't understand this and are easily sucked in by the con artists.

as we actually haven't had any "properly studied" trials here in the us of a, can i assume you are just preordaining in advance?

You miss the point. These drugs have been tested, properly, numerous times over the last 50 years every time a new disease came along. It was tested against AIDS/HIV, SARS, Ebola, Hanta, and others. The same reason given, it shows activity against the virus in the test tube. It is always the same story. Not effective and significant risk. The same tale is emerging with COVID-19. Why should anyone be surprised?

BECAUSE ITS NOT TRUE IN EVERY CASE

Trump liked it so it sucks.

Well now he owns 66 million doses of it, that his own administration won't let him use.

[wgdsr]

In just 24 hours, Brazil sets a grim new record with almost 35,000 new coronavirus cases

"The country, which has the second-highest number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the world, after the United States, reported 34,918 new cases and 1,282 new deaths in the past 24 hours."

Sad stuff

… another know nothing dictator

riddle me this smart rump

Why after 4 months of extreme measures to flatten the curve is Dr Faucci saying the new cases across the south and southwest are first wave related.

First wave. So nothing that could have been done since this virus flared can stop it from running its course.

Plenty could have been done. Since these other states are seeing cases now it generally is because when reopening there has been too little social distancing. Requiring mask wearing when indoors in public/stores/restaurants. Some areas still need more testing - Oklahoma's testing numbers are going down even while cases (and positive tests) are going up. But now it seems that the SD measures that work (keep 6 feet apart, minimize time indoors outside of your own home, wear masks in public) are not being used to the level they should.

And as far as your doctor Smith - he picked what ended up on the wrong side... No real data so far really supports HCQ, and in fact there IS data that says it can hurt (make other treatments less effective, side effect issues). Is he still plugging it? Then he is not helping. Science will move on to better things and leave him behind.

The HCQ / CQ story was preordained. These are old drugs (50 years) that have been well studied. Same thing every time they are properly studied. Little to no positive effect on the disease, significant side effects - always the same. COVID-19 is at least the 10th rodeo for these drugs. There are always true believers (invested individuals on the science side) and camp followers for specific drugs. Of course the know nothings don't understand this and are easily sucked in by the con artists.

as we actually haven't had any "properly studied" trials here in the us of a, can i assume you are just preordaining in advance?

You miss the point. These drugs have been tested, properly, numerous times over the last 50 years every time a new disease came along. It was tested against AIDS/HIV, SARS, Ebola, Hanta, and others. The same reason given, it shows activity against the virus in the test tube. It is always the same story. Not effective and significant risk. The same tale is emerging with COVID-19. Why should anyone be surprised?

good stuff 72.
so yes, then, on the preordaining.
guess we should only try out new drugs.

i'll bet the ra and lupus crowd are glad that wasn't the prevailing thought in the past.

hope that 50 year old dexamethasone proves to be effective until we can engineer something newer, too.

[wgdsr]

And as far as your doctor Smith - he picked what ended up on the wrong side... No real data so far really supports HCQ, and in fact there IS data that says it can hurt (make other treatments less effective, side effect issues). Is he still plugging it? Then he is not helping. Science will move on to better things and leave him behind.

if you believe the 2nd part, then the 1st part is patently untrue. there is plenty of the same sort of data, and even better data (trials vs post-observational studies), that have shown it to be effective. and not dangerous in proper doses.

randomized clinical trials, in proper circumstances, will tell more. we're all still waiting.

as far as chose the wrong side... worldwide it continues to be the /one of the most prescribed treatments. if you haven't noticed, the game isn't over for any option.

FDA Warns Against Co-Administering Remdesivir with Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine

https://www.biospace.com/article/fda-wa ... loroquine/

Turmoil continues for hydroxychloroquine
While negative clinical trial results lead some researchers to cancel studies, other will push ahead

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/dru ... ine/98/i23

At least one or more of the studies mentioned in the above article was double blind.

citation? which one?

N. Engl. J. Med. 2020, DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa2016638 (Minnesota study on prophylactic use)

Also (not sure anything is published yet) from the RECOVERY trial in the UK:

Two days later in the UK, investigators announced preliminary results from a study involving more than 4,600 people hospitalized with COVID-19. In the study, called the RECOVERY Trial, 25.7% of 1,542 people who got hydroxychloroquine died after 28 days, compared with 23.5% of 3,132 people who received standard care. Again, the difference was not statistically significant.

minnesota study...
guy had 5 grand. maybe got a bit more, asked the us govt and he was denied.
mailed out drugs. no doctor's care across the board.
many were never tested for covid. just went by patients reporting symptoms.
trial groups were pre-exposed to people who DID have confirmed covid supposedly.
endpoint was if they had self-observed symptoms.
that's the list.
not how quick did they clear it, who went to the hospital, who got on intubation, who died. just who got a symptom. after being preexposed.

many taking hcq didn't take their full dosage. ~20% fewer actually got symptoms but not statistically signif enough.

sound like a gold standard clinical trial to you? everything vetted on possible benefit to the drug?

recovery trial was thru all hospital patients, gave them 2400 mg 1st day and 800 thereafter. absurd amounts bc they mixed it up w hydroxyquinoline, which has a much lower absorption rate. and maybe gave that to very sick patients (not where proponents say it is possibly effective in 1st place). btw, landray also said there was no observed instance of cardiac issues at those levels but maybe we'll end up seeing when data is scrubbed whether that is a cya statement.

[RedFromMI]

Just to see how badly the US as a country is doing with COVID-19:



EU has a larger population (~440 million) vs US (~330 million).

US (less NY) vs NY:

[ggait]

Trump liked it so it sucks.

Trump liked HCQ solely because it happened to be a convenient prop for his daily gaslighting. HCQ, sunlight, bleach, Dem narrative, vaccine just around the corner, it's all going to go away, blah blah blah blah. It is just a daily carnival reality TV freak show.

End of the day, the docs have done NOTHING differently regarding HCQ than they would have if Trump had kept his mouth shut.

Docs have been (and still are) able to prescribe it off label. Some are doing that, some not. Lots of studies going on. Tea leaves indicating: it doesn't work for the very sick; it doesn't work as a preventive; may work (extent TBD) if given early on as HCQ/AZ/Z. Could be that the AZ/Z (not the HCQ) is what actually helps. End of the day, the virus will respond to the science, docs, and clinical trials. Not the Gaslighter in Chief.

Meanwhile, Trump moves on to tell you that the old guy in Buffalo was using his iphone to jam police radio signals. It is all just bull shirt.

New poll says decrepit demented sniffing Ukraine-ing Sleepy/Creepy Joe spanking Trump by 16 points in Michigan.

Let's goe Joe! Let's go Joe!

[jhu72]

In just 24 hours, Brazil sets a grim new record with almost 35,000 new coronavirus cases

"The country, which has the second-highest number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the world, after the United States, reported 34,918 new cases and 1,282 new deaths in the past 24 hours."

Sad stuff

… another know nothing dictator

riddle me this smart rump

Why after 4 months of extreme measures to flatten the curve is Dr Faucci saying the new cases across the south and southwest are first wave related.

First wave. So nothing that could have been done since this virus flared can stop it from running its course.

Plenty could have been done. Since these other states are seeing cases now it generally is because when reopening there has been too little social distancing. Requiring mask wearing when indoors in public/stores/restaurants. Some areas still need more testing - Oklahoma's testing numbers are going down even while cases (and positive tests) are going up. But now it seems that the SD measures that work (keep 6 feet apart, minimize time indoors outside of your own home, wear masks in public) are not being used to the level they should.

And as far as your doctor Smith - he picked what ended up on the wrong side... No real data so far really supports HCQ, and in fact there IS data that says it can hurt (make other treatments less effective, side effect issues). Is he still plugging it? Then he is not helping. Science will move on to better things and leave him behind.

The HCQ / CQ story was preordained. These are old drugs (50 years) that have been well studied. Same thing every time they are properly studied. Little to no positive effect on the disease, significant side effects - always the same. COVID-19 is at least the 10th rodeo for these drugs. There are always true believers (invested individuals on the science side) and camp followers for specific drugs. Of course the know nothings don't understand this and are easily sucked in by the con artists.

as we actually haven't had any "properly studied" trials here in the us of a, can i assume you are just preordaining in advance?

You miss the point. These drugs have been tested, properly, numerous times over the last 50 years every time a new disease came along. It was tested against AIDS/HIV, SARS, Ebola, Hanta, and others. The same reason given, it shows activity against the virus in the test tube. It is always the same story. Not effective and significant risk. The same tale is emerging with COVID-19. Why should anyone be surprised?

good stuff 72.
so yes, then, on the preordaining.
guess we should only try out new drugs.

i'll bet the ra and lupus crowd are glad that wasn't the prevailing thought in the past.

hope that 50 year old dexamethasone proves to be effective until we can engineer something newer, too.

The usage against lupus and other autoimmune diseases is a real bonus but not surprising. People act like we find a treatment for something and then all research on it stops. It is SOP to make a case for secondary usage of drugs once discovered, if you can make a sensible case and do the testing in a laboratory environment. Most of the time it stops there. The problem with HCQ / CQ is false positives (so to speak) in the lab. The phrase used by Fauci, numerous times, "it shows activity against the virus in the lab". It then gets tested in the real world and falls on its face. This is not new knowledge. Fauci and others have been aware of this since the very beginning. Trump knew the story, but he and his know nothings knew better. Fauci in his first presser, told an abbreviated version of the story (HIV), but no one listened. The odds were very very very long on HCQ / CQ. So still, maybe someone can prove effectiveness to the community's satisfaction, but I would not bet on it.

According to my wife, many experts have wondered since the beginning if some steroids might not be useful. Turns out one (the only one tested that I am aware of) shows high likelihood of being very useful. The interesting thing is, docs in the US were in this case also told not to make use of steroids in clinical treatment (just like most responsible HC organizations did with HCQ / CQ) as there was no proof of it being safe or effective. This has nothing to do with Trump, other than he continues to stick his nose into things to a level a depth where he is in way over his head.

He should never have injected himself into the HCQ / CQ issue. He should have left it to the experts. But then this is his style.

[njbill]

I’ll go with what the FDA and Dr. Ho say about HCQ, not Donald Trump or Internet posters.

[Bart]

According to my wife, many experts have wondered since the beginning if some steroids might not be useful. Turns out one (the only one tested that I am aware of) shows high likelihood of being very useful. The interesting thing is, docs in the US were in this case also told not to make use of steroids in clinical treatment (just like most responsible HC organizations did with HCQ / CQ) as there was no proof of it being safe or effective. This has nothing to do with Trump, other than he continues to stick his nose into things to a level a depth where he is in way over his head.

This is interesting. In early April, there were a bunch of Doctors in Washington that used Actemra, an anti inflammatory used in rheumatoid arthritis.

This one is from a small uncrontrolled trial: https://www.jwatch.org/na51506/2020/05/ ... m-covid-19

This one is from China but again not a randomized trial: https://www.pnas.org/content/117/20/10970

Trials seem to be continuing but this would be in line with the results of the studies utilizing steroid control of inflamation.

Edit: here is a quick review of 2 IL-6 therapies including Actemra: https://pharmaphorum.com/news/jury-stil ... l-results/