Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[calourie]

Leave it to MD to solve all the worlds problems by telling you that you are wrong.

They promised they’d leave Washington and Jefferson out of it, and yet here we are. The woke left topple Jefferson.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... -in-oregon

Show me a billion ‘polls’ and I won’t believe one that shows Democrats getting rewarded for these kinds of anti-American riots.

So, we get to agree that this was wrong.
I'd also agree that such overswing will not inure to the political benefit of Democrats who don't stand up to that overswing.

What if they topple the statue of Lincoln in his Washington Memorial because Trump thinks he himself might have done more for the AfroAmerican community than Lincoln did ? Then we've got a real political conumdrum.

[Farfromgeneva]

Can he even fit in that chair? Or just float nearby in Haynes Point?

[ggait]

There was only one safe outcome -- his immediate incarceration, with adjudication initiated before he had the opportunity to get behind the wheel again. His car was his lethal weapon.

Just false as a matter of factual reality. Please tell us exactly what safety risk the perp/victim posed at that point?

The guy was on foot and out of his car. The cops had custody of his car. So the chance of him using HIS car to cause harm is 0.00%.

So you need to shoot him because you are afraid that (while sleepy drunk) he's going to (i) outrun police on foot, (ii) outrun the police crusiers, (iii) outrun any additional back-ups that could be called in, (iv) then steal and/or hotwire another vehicle (while sleepy drunk), and (v) then DUI in the stolen car and thereby kill someone? That is a very looooonnggg and winding breadcrumb trail, Salty. Possible -- I guess since it wouldn't violate the laws of physics. Reasonably likely -- no way.

Or are you afraid he's going to go on a community wide Taser-spree? Which is a non-lethal instrument, has a 10 foot range, and probably is running low on batteries. And he's on foot, otherwise unarmed, and very drunk. Seriously?

Of course the perp/victim should be arrested and face responsibility for DUI, resisting arrest, attempted assault (with the Taser) and probably a bunch of other stuff.

But none of those are capital offenses. None of those justify application of lethal force. Cops aren't authorized to administer the death penalty without due process. They can only use force in extremely circumscribed circumstances, none of which are present. #law #facts

It is the job of the cops to deal with criminals and drunks and misbehavers. If they are Keystone cops incompetent in doing those things, then they need a different line of work.

[Farfromgeneva]

But wait all police are the best. I was excoriated before for pointing out how basic, simple, undertrained and with insufficient oversight and accountability the system is just a little while back.

BTW, while back in upstate I found out the one who’s dad was a cop and became one taking underage girls home at the end of shifts in our 20s is now the head detective here and out of control, still doing dirt. Another reason I can’t sell this broke down ranch fast enough.

[Peter Brown]

Leave it to MD to solve all the worlds problems by telling you that you are wrong.

They promised they’d leave Washington and Jefferson out of it, and yet here we are. The woke left topple Jefferson.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... -in-oregon

Show me a billion ‘polls’ and I won’t believe one that shows Democrats getting rewarded for these kinds of anti-American riots.

So, we get to agree that this was wrong.
I'd also agree that such overswing will not inure to the political benefit of Democrats who don't stand up to that overswing.

Yes and yes.

[ToastDunk]

I didn't realize that we were 'discussing and fixing problems with our government'. I keep seeing rioting and anarchy.

You're using the actions of a few as an excuse to not look at the actual problems.

And you're doing it intentionally. So are millions of Americans.

Meanwhile, back with those of us who aren't pro-government zealots, looking for excuses not to so much as look at problems in our government, let alone fix them.....the issue is being discussed, and laws are being proposed and passed.

C'mon a fan, you know Pete's a racist, or a dick, most likely both. His exchanges are boring, often exhausting, on rare occasion entertaining...but mostly boring. Engaging with him offers nothing. Worthless debate. Trolling. Changes no minds. Only brings him satisfaction.

Racism in America is serious, Pete is not.

[Typical Lax Dad]

There was only one safe outcome -- his immediate incarceration, with adjudication initiated before he had the opportunity to get behind the wheel again. His car was his lethal weapon.

Just false as a matter of factual reality. Please tell us exactly what safety risk the perp/victim posed at that point?

The guy was on foot and out of his car. The cops had custody of his car. So the chance of him using HIS car to cause harm is 0.00%.

So you need to shoot him because you are afraid that (while sleepy drunk) he's going to (i) outrun police on foot, (ii) outrun the police crusiers, (iii) outrun any additional back-ups that could be called in, (iv) then steal and/or hotwire another vehicle (while sleepy drunk), and (v) then DUI in the stolen car and thereby kill someone? That is a very looooonnggg and winding breadcrumb trail, Salty. Possible -- I guess since it wouldn't violate the laws of physics. Reasonably likely -- no way.

Or are you afraid he's going to go on a community wide Taser-spree? Which is a non-lethal instrument, has a 10 foot range, and probably is running low on batteries. And he's on foot, otherwise unarmed, and very drunk. Seriously?

Of course the perp/victim should be arrested and face responsibility for DUI, resisting arrest, attempted assault (with the Taser) and probably a bunch of other stuff.

But none of those are capital offenses. None of those justify application of lethal force. Cops aren't authorized to administer the death penalty without due process. They can only use force in extremely circumscribed circumstances, none of which are present. #law #facts

It is the job of the cops to deal with criminals and drunks and misbehavers. If they are Keystone cops incompetent in doing those things, then they need a different line of work.

Being scared is also a reason to find another job. Shooting Americans in the back is honorable now. Just like lying is no big deal. Man we have fallen fast.

[old salt]

The first cop was a decent guy. The cop that shot him was just the type you run across. Already a bad disposition when he arrived. He needed a new job. So the guy tussles with the cops so they can shoot him? Like I said, I know two high school lacrosse players that punched cops and nothing much happened to them. Wrestled to the ground. No weapons drawn. Of course both had been drinking.

Nice job Dad, living up to your screen name. Did you coach those 2 lax bro knuckleheads too ?
No big deal, of course they'd been drinking. That makes it ok. Sad.

Did your 2 drunken lax bro proteges throw off 2 cops, punch them, take their weapon & flee.
...& the problem was the cop's attitude ?
I can't believe how casual you all are about Brooks drunk driving. No prob. Call him a cab. He won't do it again.

Rolfe patiently & professionally questioned & tested Brooks. He did not escalate a very difficult, potentially dangerous situation. He gave Brooks every opportunity. Brooks just keep digging his hole deeper. Brooks was a risk who needed to be arrested, removed from the road & his driving privileges revoked before he killed someone on the road, maybe his daughters.

You think Brooks posed no immediate risk ? He was drunk out of his mind. He overcame 2 trained police officers who had the advantage on him, injuring one in the process (Brosnan was limping noticeably & having difficulty pursuing). Rolfe had to make a split second decision. He had no way of knowing what Brooks would do. Would he drag someone out of a car & try to escape or enter someone's home & try to hide. Rolfe had to make an immediate, instinctive decision. He eliminated the threat when he was still within close range, before he got away. In situations like that, you instinctively revert to your tactical training. Hesitation can be deadly. It was an "awful but lawful" split second adrenaline fueled decision Rolfe had to make in an instant. Brooks created the situation which cost him his life.

I’m pretty sure training doesn’t include someone without a legally defined lethal weapon to be shot in the back. If so maybe that’s why the chief of police was forced out. Perhaps some phys Ed would be useful too if two guys got manhandled like you suggest but the drunk guy, and he was drunk. If you’re suggesting drunk driving deserves the death penalty, we’ll then say that and let that play out. It’s choosing who’s life is more important that you are doing and as citizens no one should have the power to do that.

At the end of the day there’s all these people far from Atlanta saying this and that but the guy was fired and probably will be convicted so that “awful but lawful” will be proven untrue. And if one wants to argue that the system was rigged well then it applies to been record for every citizen within that same system including the ones some are so fast to proclaim that the guy was an evil gangbanger because he had a record. Either the system is correct or it isn’t but in the community thus happened even most white people are horrified I can say from people at banks and funds to people I know who work at garages.

I'm saying that Brooks was an immediate threat to innocent lives already, just by getting there in that condition.
There was only one safe outcome -- his immediate incarceration, with adjudication initiated before he had the opportunity to get behind the wheel again. His car was his lethal weapon.
It was a death penalty only because he resisted a lawful arrest & assaulted 2 cops correctly doing their job.
4 Atlanta cops were just fired & 2 charged for using their non-lethal tasers, but it's no big deal if an out of control drunk takes one & turns it on the police.

And you don’t see any difference in one given the authority to do so but expected to be held to a very high standard and a regular citizen?

He wasn’t an immediate danger by getting there. The danger had passed. Literally not the case. 45 minutes of calm discussion as well. So again literally not an immediate danger. Doesn’t absolve his behavior, don’t get stupid and go down that path please, I’m explicitly saying that he deserved to be held accountable. But taking his life and shooting where you risk hitting a innocence bystander (again it can be heard w people saying “to, there’s kids around here when they are shooting”) is in no way commensurate with the violation. It is really that simple. Now the shooter has got to go and his pension should go to the family of the victim. Or my share back in my pocket in a refund.

I don’t see only one outcome, seems like you are using a very narrow view of how to manage this situation. Not very thoughtful or creative to say “only one safe outcome”. You certainly can never prove that is true, it’s impossible and it’s not trying to work very hard to have a better overall outcome. Sounds like applying war like military view to domestic life to me.

The danger had not passed. As soon as he was released he could go home & get behind the wheel of the black Volvo. You think not having his license would stop him ? Rolfe fired while he was still at close range, reducing the risk of an errant shot.

[Farfromgeneva]

What you are talking about is a police state. One observed violation does not allow anyone to presume they will do something else. That’s just wrong and antithetical to anything we believe in here in the US.

A DUI is and should remain IMO, a misdemeanor. What you're suggesting is something the military pulls in Ankara Turkey, not here.

[Kismet]

The danger had not passed. As soon as he was released he could go home & get behind the wheel of the black Volvo. You think not having his license would stop him ? Rolfe fired while he was still at close range, reducing the risk of an errant shot.

Reduced risk? Apparently his third shot embedded in a minivan in the parking lot with a family of passengers still inside.

[Typical Lax Dad]

What you are talking about is a police state. One observed violation does not allow anyone to presume they will do something else. That’s just wrong and antithetical to anything we believe in here in the US.

A DUI is and should remain IMO, a misdemeanor. What you're suggesting is something the military pulls in Ankara Turkey, not here.

That’s an old best and brightest.

[Farfromgeneva]

Maybe this world isn’t meant for me anymore.

“Starry, starry night...”

[old salt]

There was only one safe outcome -- his immediate incarceration, with adjudication initiated before he had the opportunity to get behind the wheel again. His car was his lethal weapon.

Just false as a matter of factual reality. Please tell us exactly what safety risk the perp/victim posed at that point?

The guy was on foot and out of his car. The cops had custody of his car. So the chance of him using HIS car to cause harm is 0.00%.

It is the job of the cops to deal with criminals and drunks and misbehavers. If they are Keystone cops incompetent in doing those things, then they need a different line of work.

Being scared is also a reason to find another job. Shooting Americans in the back is honorable now. Just like lying is no big deal. Man we have fallen fast.

While punching out cops by privileged white lax bros is meritorious, because the cops have attitude.

It was a rental car. Nothing stopping him from going home & driving his sisters black Volvo.
You think a minor detail like not having his license would stop a drunk like him ?

Keystone cops ? Everything was going patiently & professionally until Brooks freaked out, resisted & assaulted them. Would you have preferred they restrain him with a choke hold until they could handcuff him ? Second guessing by desk bound lawyers who risk the danger of paper cuts.

[Farfromgeneva]

Murder. That’s what happened. I’ve been punched in the face plenty of times, punched a few as well, better record growing up than Peter Mc Neely but not Roy Jones level and has my share that looked like I was in the other end of Deonte Wilder.

I’d rather get punched in the face numerous times by Wilder than shot in the back and killed forever.

Since you lie to speculate so much in your mythical police state, how about the fact he slept
In the car. Perhaps even recognition once he heck up that he needed to get off the road? As possible and probably more likely than your speculative position also ignoring the very long calm discussion before anything happened.

But again, your speculating about what could’ve been baed on misdemeanor behavior and no imminent lethal threat to justify killing someone by shooting them in the back. In public. With other people including children around. That’s your position.

[old salt]

Murder. That’s what happened. I’ve been punched in the face plenty of times, punched a few as well, better record growing up than Peter Mc Neely but not Roy Jones level and has my share that looked like I was in the other end of Deonte Wilder.

I’d rather get punched in the face numerous times by Wilder than shot in the back and killed forever.

Since you lie to speculate so much in your mythical police state, how about the fact he slept
In the car. Perhaps even recognition once he heck up that he needed to get off the road? As possible and probably more likely than your speculative position also ignoring the very long calm discussion before anything happened.

Your fighting exploits are irrelevant. Cops don't get paid to get sucker punched by out-of-control, drunks.
Did you do anything as stupid as punching a cop ?

Did you bother watching the video ? Brooks didn't pull over to sleep it off. He passed out in the drive thru line. Fortunately, he must have put it in park. He blocked traffic until Wendy's called 911, Brosnan responded & had to wake him up 3 times before he moved to a parking spot. Even then he drove up over the curb & had to back down. He had no intention to stop driving, He kept insisting he was ok to drive.

[njbill]

Second guessing by desk bound lawyers who risk the danger of paper cuts.

Hey, I resent that. I’m a couch bound lawyer (retired).

Sure, in theory, he could have gone home and taken his sister’s car. Or he could have stumbled upstairs and passed out in his bed. Or he could have opened the fridge and eaten every leftover in sight. Or pulled out a sixpack and further drunk himself into oblivion.

Or he could’ve gone upstairs, gotten on his computer, and started posting on fan lax. Or he could’ve started writing the next Great American Novel.

Or he could’ve gone down into his basement and discovered a vaccine for the coronavirus.

All theoretically possible. But none more probable than not.

I’m not exactly sure what the legal standard is in Georgia for cops to shoot someone, but I suspect it is something like the shootee must present an imminent threat to the officer or civilians of death or serious bodily harm. The he-might-go-home-and-steal-his-sister’s-car scenario is just too attenuated in the eyes of the law to justify shooting the guy in the back.

[Typical Lax Dad]

There was only one safe outcome -- his immediate incarceration, with adjudication initiated before he had the opportunity to get behind the wheel again. His car was his lethal weapon.

Just false as a matter of factual reality. Please tell us exactly what safety risk the perp/victim posed at that point?

The guy was on foot and out of his car. The cops had custody of his car. So the chance of him using HIS car to cause harm is 0.00%.

It is the job of the cops to deal with criminals and drunks and misbehavers. If they are Keystone cops incompetent in doing those things, then they need a different line of work.

Being scared is also a reason to find another job. Shooting Americans in the back is honorable now. Just like lying is no big deal. Man we have fallen fast.

While punching out cops by privileged white lax bros is meritorious, because the cops have attitude.

It was a rental car. Nothing stopping him from going home & driving his sisters black Volvo.
You think a minor detail like not having his license would stop a drunk like him ?

Keystone cops ? Everything was going patiently & professionally until Brooks freaked out, resisted & assaulted them. Would you have preferred they restrain him with a choke hold until they could handcuff him ? Second guessing by desk bound lawyers who risk the danger of paper cuts.

What was his drunk driving record? I haven’t looked. You may have.

[old salt]

There was only one safe outcome -- his immediate incarceration, with adjudication initiated before he had the opportunity to get behind the wheel again. His car was his lethal weapon.

Just false as a matter of factual reality. Please tell us exactly what safety risk the perp/victim posed at that point?

The guy was on foot and out of his car. The cops had custody of his car. So the chance of him using HIS car to cause harm is 0.00%.

It is the job of the cops to deal with criminals and drunks and misbehavers. If they are Keystone cops incompetent in doing those things, then they need a different line of work.

Being scared is also a reason to find another job. Shooting Americans in the back is honorable now. Just like lying is no big deal. Man we have fallen fast.

While punching out cops by privileged white lax bros is meritorious, because the cops have attitude.

It was a rental car. Nothing stopping him from going home & driving his sisters black Volvo.
You think a minor detail like not having his license would stop a drunk like him ?

Keystone cops ? Everything was going patiently & professionally until Brooks freaked out, resisted & assaulted them. Would you have preferred they restrain him with a choke hold until they could handcuff him ? Second guessing by desk bound lawyers who risk the danger of paper cuts.

What was his drunk driving record? I haven’t looked. You may have.

You could see the condition he was in on the video ? He was insisting he was ok to drive home. He had no idea where he was.
Would you be ok with putting him back on the road with your kids in the car (or in the opposite lane), no matter what his previous record ?
For his own safety & everyone else's, he needed to be in the drunk tank until the police, prosecutors, or judge could sort it out.
He did not demonstrate the coherence to be issued a citation & to call a cab or a family member to come pick him up.
He was a real time danger to public safety.

[Farfromgeneva]

Murder. That’s what happened. I’ve been punched in the face plenty of times, punched a few as well, better record growing up than Peter Mc Neely but not Roy Jones level and has my share that looked like I was in the other end of Deonte Wilder.

I’d rather get punched in the face numerous times by Wilder than shot in the back and killed forever.

Since you lie to speculate so much in your mythical police state, how about the fact he slept
In the car. Perhaps even recognition once he heck up that he needed to get off the road? As possible and probably more likely than your speculative position also ignoring the very long calm discussion before anything happened.

Your fighting exploits are irrelevant. Cops don't get paid to get sucker punched by out-of-control, drunks.
Did you do anything as stupid as punching a cop ?

Did you bother watching the video ? Brooks didn't pull over to sleep it off. He passed out in the drive thru line. Fortunately, he must have put it in park. He blocked traffic until Wendy's called 911, Brosnan responded & had to wake him up 3 times before he moved to a parking spot. Even then he drove up over the curb & had to back down. He had no intention to stop driving, He kept insisting he was ok to drive.

It’s relevant to the outcome. No different than those who think all cities are just an extension of the wire hate seeing a fist driven beef escalate to guns. This cop effectively acted like the gangbangers you loathe so much, not a uniformed, trained and provided with lethal weapons professional one would expect.

I have seen the video and I’ve spoken with people who now have direct involvement in this so I have an idea what I’m talking about. (And frankly why I’m spending as much time challenging all the nonsense people are spewing from a distance on this). You’re relying on your self selected news stories and lots of speculation.

Never punched a cop but you still don’t get it, totally ok with killing people, and yeah, occasionally a cop is going to get punched and that should never mean it’s ok to shoot the guy in the back. You just don’t get how precious life is.

[ggait]

You could see the condition he was in on the video ? He was insisting he was ok to drive home. He had no idea where he was.
Would you be ok with putting him back on the road with your kids in the car (or in the opposite lane), no matter what his previous record ?
For his own safety & everyone else's, he needed to be in the drunk tank until the police, prosecutors, or judge could sort it out.
He did not demonstrate the coherence to be issued a citation & to call a cab or a family member to come pick him up.
He was a real time danger to public safety.

Eye roll.

Having been deprived of his car, you have to shoot him to keep him from walking or cabbing home, then obtaining a second vehicle, and then DUI-ing that other TBD vehicle? GMAFB.

I see there's now a claim that one of the cop's bullets hit a car in the lot which had people and kids in it. Seems like discharging a weapon in an occupied parking lot is a lot more dangerous than your silly attenuated fact pattern.

Same thing as pursuing a suspect in a car chase. That is now banned by most PDs. Because the method was proven to be more risky than not going there.