Ivy League

[MDlaxfan76]

OK hear me out on my recruiting pitch...

Would you rather get an Ivy League education AND have a chance at stepping in and playing at one of the top programs in the nation...
Or...
Would you prefer to go to a school that has a roster of 50 kids, including current (and more expected in the next couple of years) transfers and 5th year seniors who are 21/22/23 yrs old?

I'm tired of hearing how the Ivy League teams are done and I'm looking for something positive out of all of this. That ACC/Big10 log-jam is going to be brutal, and it's clear that top programs are going to go after great transfers and slot them in above existing kids.

For sure the Ivies lost out on a "forever" season, talent-wise, and for sure they're likely to get hurt by loaded teams next year. But doesnt this- in a weird way- make the Ivies more attractive to a lot of top players who have the academics?

For the most part, kids who want to go Ivy League do go Ivy League.

Ivy teams don't have real issues selling the schools/programs, they have trouble with their admissions offices.

That's certainly generally true, however I think we're talking on the margin. Student athletes who if they were to be considered at an Ivy would need to be at or near the top of the list of recruits, yet might not quite be there though on an upward trajectory. Many of these may not have even considered Ivy, others may have decided to take the 'bird in the hand' of a BigLaxU offer made earlier than perhaps the Ivy was ready given the bubble academics. For very strong athletes, it may feel great to be wanted by BigLaxU, a safe bet to be going to a good school plus great lax opportunity, flattering. But if that lax opportunity feels diminished by uncertainty about roster depth, a few of these may be tempted to consider working academically to make the grade for an Ivy down the stretch.

It's a reasonable pitch, may or may not work, but at least a strategy, IMO.

[spartanslynx]

Goldner is staying at Penn as undergrad according to Tyler Cunnington

https://twitter.com/TCunnington_Lax/sta ... 96481?s=20

[faircornell]

Matt Gaudet is traded from PLL Chaos to PLL Chrome in exchange for a future draft pick.

[Can Opener]

Wow. Stuff just got real. Brown announced today that it is eliminating 11 varsity sports. I fear this is a wave that is gathering strength. As universities twist themselves in knots to value things other than athletics, there is a target on the backs of traditional sports. IMO, if you really want to transform Ivy athletics, you would eliminate football. That was the bold choice Brown could have made. Instead they killed 11 sports to preserve a football team that is 1-20 in Ivy play over the past three seasons.

https://www.brown.edu/news/2020-05-28/a ... excellence

[faircornell]

Wow. Stuff just got real. Brown announced today that it is eliminating 11 varsity sports. I fear this is a wave that is gathering strength. As universities twist themselves in knots to value things other than athletics, there is a target on the backs of traditional sports. IMO, if you really want to transform Ivy athletics, you would eliminate football. That was the bold choice Brown could have made. Instead they killed 11 sports to preserve a football team that is 1-20 in Ivy play over the past three seasons.

https://www.brown.edu/news/2020-05-28/a ... excellence

Women's Cross Country and Track & Field are surprising. I can't imagine that those cost a lot, and (I'd assume) that there is a demand for those amongst the student body. I was also surprised at the number of women's sports dropped. Cornell had a similar "culling" many years ago, and tried to endow sports that the past AD viewed as being less viable.

[bearlaxfan]

Wow. Stuff just got real. Brown announced today that it is eliminating 11 varsity sports. I fear this is a wave that is gathering strength. As universities twist themselves in knots to value things other than athletics, there is a target on the backs of traditional sports. IMO, if you really want to transform Ivy athletics, you would eliminate football. That was the bold choice Brown could have made. Instead they killed 11 sports to preserve a football team that is 1-20 in Ivy play over the past three seasons.

https://www.brown.edu/news/2020-05-28/a ... excellence

New football coach, so that's one chip for retaining the sport. I wouldn't cry if every Ivy football program went bye-bye, just too dangerous a sport, but NO-ONE wants to be the first to pull the plug.

[FannOLax]

...IMO, if you really want to transform Ivy athletics, you would eliminate football. That was the bold choice Brown could have made. Instead they killed 11 sports to preserve a football team that is 1-20 in Ivy play over the past three seasons.

https://www.brown.edu/news/2020-05-28/a ... excellence

Well, Ivy football has a lot of history and tradition, but that was in a very different era. Whereas Columbia once played in the Rose Bowl, nowadays the League doesn't allow its team to play any post-season games. I seriously doubt that Yale would eliminate football, but I can imagine Brown and some other Ivies doing so. There is something of a model in men's ice hockey, with Ivy schools including Cornell and Harvard competing in the ECAC.

[notentitled]

Sorry, but football is not going to be cut any time soon. The crowds do not show up for the games (and they do not really show up for lacrosse either- parents go mostly), but there is no way Yale/Harvard or Penn/Princeton etc. are stopping play- the programs are ingrained at most of the institutions- Calvin Hill, Chuck Bednarik, Ed Marinaro are all part of the lore.

To the silliness about Brown's recent struggles in football, it happens everywhere. My Dad was there as a student when Cornell beat Michigan and endured many horrible seasons as well as a season ticket holder until his passing but he loved the Big Red. I am sure there Brown fans just like him. . Penn was 3 and 45 or something before Jerry Berndt showed up in 1981 and they won 4 straight titles. Wins and losses are not a driver for keeping a sport- what they are is up to the school. And Brown find winning football again too.

I wish the kids at Brown the best of luck. It is tough to have your sport cancelled or set-back. I hope they continue to strive to excel. It is a tough time out there for many.

[DALaxDad]

Faircornell,
Only men's track, field and cross country. Not women's.

Nothing in the announcement blames Covid-19 issues, so I suspect that is not part of the decision. If it were, you can be sure it would be used as support to help deflect criticism. Rather the decision is attributed to Brown's poor performance within the Ivy league and President Paxon's desire to increase the varsity teams' overall success as part of Brown's commitment to excellence. It is a big enough list that everyone can find something to squabble with I'm sure. I'm not sure I buy the premise that reducing the number of teams will increase the overall performance of the remaining teams. Sure it reduces the denominator, so one success represents a higher percentage. Big deal. The real question is whether the athletic department was actually allocating "difference maker" recruiting slots to the teams being eliminated and if so, how many of those slots are freed up for the remaining teams. As I recall, one aspect of the AI calculation is that all recruited athletes must have an average AI that is within 1 decile (or some stated range I can't recall) of the trailing 4 year average AI of the matriculating student body. Men and women's golf routinely have had high academic performances, so I have to believe they were helping to bring up the overall average AI for recruited athletes. If those teams weren't being allocated any of the "difference maker" slots, eliminating them just means the remaining recruited athletes need a higher AI on average. The cynic in me says that this is really a response to those faculty and other anti-athletic voices who chafe at having recruited athletes receive any favoritism in what is a very competitive admissions process. By eliminating some slots for recruited athletes, it may make it easier to retain more slots for other sacred cows, such as children of alumni or big donors or more diverse populations.

[Laxman23]

Even though this is a lax forum I am a little surprised this move by Brown did not generate more of a response on the IVY league thread. At some point I will look up the number of Varsity sports fielded by each school and their success rate etc. Certainly lacrosse is safe but you have to feel for the athletes who lost their Varsity status. Club is great but not the same. Wonder if the stated reason of poor performance will be impacted by the reduction from 38 to 27 teams. As long as some teams are competing this coming year......hope so.

[Can Opener]

Even though this is a lax forum I am a little surprised this move by Brown did not generate more of a response on the IVY league thread. At some point I will look up the number of Varsity sports fielded by each school and their success rate etc. Certainly lacrosse is safe but you have to feel for the athletes who lost their Varsity status. Club is great but not the same. Wonder if the stated reason of poor performance will be impacted by the reduction from 38 to 27 teams. As long as some teams are competing this coming year......hope so.

This is pretty huge news. I don’t think we’ve ever seen cuts like this in modern Ivy athletics. It likely provides cover for other Ivies looking to trim marginal programs.

[faircornell]

In the late 1990's, Cornell's AD issued a challenge to several sports to either raise an endowment (partial or full) or become club sports (this is a bit of a simplification). Many sports rallied round. Some did not, and are doing well as club sports as far as I can tell. It sounds like the Brown decision might have been less based on finances than other considerations.

The posts above indicate (possibly correctly) that the new thematic direction of many Ivy schools could see athletics deprioritized further. It seems that a few of the sports mentioned could raise endowments. It's sad to see something as traditional as Men's Track & Field and Cross County axed. The running sports always seemed to have full Ivy participation.

[cuseman4133]

Not a huge surprise given all the silence, but Jeff Teat is coming back to Cornell per Chris Jast.

He says more seniors are coming back as well. Would be curious as to who else. https://twitter.com/Chris_Jast/status/1 ... 5000911880

[watcherinthewoods]

This is a slap in the face to ALL Ivy seniors who will never get to wear their jerseys again. And the fact that NONE of these magical exceptions seems to have materialized on the women's side is shameful.

[Laxxal22]

This is a slap in the face to ALL Ivy seniors who will never get to wear their jerseys again. And the fact that NONE of these magical exceptions seems to have materialized on the women's side is shameful.

Blame their schools.

[jrn19]

Not a huge surprise given all the silence, but Jeff Teat is coming back to Cornell per Chris Jast.

He says more seniors are coming back as well. Would be curious as to who else. https://twitter.com/Chris_Jast/status/1 ... 5000911880

How exactly are they gonna pull these seniors coming back off? We know Teat didn’t graduate yet, which would explain why he was able to find a way back. But all the other seniors seemed to have graduated, in which case I’m really confused as to how they’re able to return. TD for example still had a few outstanding credits left. I don’t think anyone yet who actually graduated from the Ivy has announced their return

[AreaLax]

From the press release
ITHACA, N.Y. – The Cornell Department of Athletics and Physical Education has announced that senior men’s lacrosse player Jeff Teat has been granted a fifth-year eligibility waiver through the Ivy League Office. Teat will take a leave of absence during the fall 2020 semester before returning to complete his degree requirements and rejoin the Big Red men’s lacrosse team in January to use his final year of eligibility during the spring 2021 semester.

[HopFan16]

Not a huge surprise given all the silence, but Jeff Teat is coming back to Cornell per Chris Jast.

He says more seniors are coming back as well. Would be curious as to who else. https://twitter.com/Chris_Jast/status/1 ... 5000911880

How exactly are they gonna pull these seniors coming back off? We know Teat didn’t graduate yet, which would explain why he was able to find a way back. But all the other seniors seemed to have graduated, in which case I’m really confused as to how they’re able to return. TD for example still had a few outstanding credits left. I don’t think anyone yet who actually graduated from the Ivy has announced their return

Yeah, the reasoning behind Teat's return according to Cornell's press release isn't going to apply to guys who already graduated:

Under Ivy rules, eligibility beyond four calendar years requires approval of the Executive Director. Among other factors, approval is contingent upon the student having an academic enrollment plan that is approved by institutional academic officials. Teat worked with university advisors to develop an academic plan that would allow him to complete remaining degree requirements, as well as additional coursework that supports his career goals, during the spring 2021 semester.

If the guys who graduated really are coming back too, they're going to have to find a different way to bend the rules. You can't graduate and just stay on campus to take classes unless you're part of a graduate program/working toward another degree. And that is clearly against Ivy rules.

[watcherinthewoods]

This is a slap in the face to ALL Ivy seniors who will never get to wear their jerseys again. And the fact that NONE of these magical exceptions seems to have materialized on the women's side is shameful.

Blame their schools.

And the league. 100%. Seems like a Title IX issue for sure. I hope someone stands up for these kids, since the adults in charge have let them down.

[youthathletics]

So the IL presidents walked their original decision back?