Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[get it to x]

I agree 100% on public buildings they have no right to be displayed. The problem is that some folks feel the same way about Washington, Adams and Jefferson. If people have a legitimate gripe do we tear down the Washington monument? Where do we as a country now draw the line to appease people that are offended?

If we only created statues of people who were upstanding citizens in all ways, there'd be no statues. Humans are imperfect. The issue is when the statue is being created to celebrate this specific fallibility. A fault which some people don't see as a fault at all but worthy of celebrating. That's a problem. And that's the real issue. Trump can say, Who's next, Washington?! And it seems like a worthy question, but it's not really a question. It's an attack. What he (and others) are really saying is, All our heroes have flaws! Stop going after mine! And... We need to go after these "heroes".

So some clarification... when does the Washington monument become part of the bullseye?

Let's see, cradle...you actually find an equivalency between monuments erected to founders of this country and those who specifically fought to tear it apart...on behalf of maintaining slavery???

Put that aside, monuments erected specifically by avowed racists on behalf of white supremacy and Jim Crow in order to intimidate?

Certainly there must be some idiots on the extreme left who would conflate these, but I sure hear a lot more false equivalency coming out of the mouths of right wingers than I do these evil lefties that some seem so worried will erase all history.

Of course, perhaps that's why I'm a fiscally conservative leaning, socially progressive leaning moderate...it's the extremes which want to erase or whitewash history...

There's an enormous difference between having an honest appraisal of the full dimensionality of our predecessors, indeed an honest and fulsome understanding of history, and the maintenance of monuments to the worst of that history.... erected specifically by the worst of that history.

We can discern the difference, right?

Since this is a 50 (or 57 if you prefer) state experiment, why not start in West By God Virginia? We can take former KKK Grand Kleagle Robert Byrd's name off of everything named after him. WV will need a federal grant just for the infrastructure projects alone.

[MDlaxfan76]

The NYPD cop charged with pushing/assaulting/injuring a woman protester was a Ward Mehville laxer who reportedly played at Kean College before serving in the USMC. A video showing her approaching the cop, before he shoved her away, was initially posted on social media. I saw it in the initial tv coverage. It has now magically been disapperared.
https://heavy.com/news/2020/06/vincent-dandraia/

Common thread with the Buffalo push assault. In both cases the police were advancing as a unit, clearing the street or sidewalk, when a protester approached them, entered their personal safety space, blocking them, taking video of the police officer with their cell phones.

Police officers now need to be prepared for encounters with video warrior provocateur protesters who enter their personal safety space, trying to generate an incident captured on video. In both these cases, these 2 provocateurs got the confrontation they sought, but they were not prepared for the consequences of their actions when invading a police officer's personal safety space in a confrontational manner.

Are you ok?

You are now referring to a 75 year old man who regularly volunteers his time for catholic charities as a "provocateur". Sad.

Did he present his AARP card ? What difference does it make what he does with his spare time ? He confronted the cops, got in their face & was clearly confrontational. He wasn't asking for directions to the senior center.

+1 The police trying to clear the streets had no idea who he was or what his intentions were. If you don't want to be pushed on your ass... don't get into the cops grill and talk chit to him. Sorry there old timer, you learned a lesson the hard way. I hope he is okay but his own stupid actions were the cause if his injuries.


For the record, my wife and I argued about this for way to long last night. When I asked my wife if the old guy had pulled out a gun and shot the cop in the head would that have changed her opinion. She finally got the message.

hmmm, IF...
I'm thinking your wife 'got the message' that you are a lost cause

Pro tip, you know she's right. Best to admit that to her tonight...

The guy was never remotely a threat, and the police action was not excusable.
Forgivable yes, excusable no.

At a minimum, big apology deserved.
Any policeman not thinking so needs to have their badge taken away.

Which isn't to say that this particular policeman necessarily had malice in his heart, that he intended for the guy to get hurt. I hope he didn't. But if he isn't quick to be sorry, not the right guy to have a badge and a gun.

[MDlaxfan76]

I agree 100% on public buildings they have no right to be displayed. The problem is that some folks feel the same way about Washington, Adams and Jefferson. If people have a legitimate gripe do we tear down the Washington monument? Where do we as a country now draw the line to appease people that are offended?

If we only created statues of people who were upstanding citizens in all ways, there'd be no statues. Humans are imperfect. The issue is when the statue is being created to celebrate this specific fallibility. A fault which some people don't see as a fault at all but worthy of celebrating. That's a problem. And that's the real issue. Trump can say, Who's next, Washington?! And it seems like a worthy question, but it's not really a question. It's an attack. What he (and others) are really saying is, All our heroes have flaws! Stop going after mine! And... We need to go after these "heroes".

So some clarification... when does the Washington monument become part of the bullseye?

Let's see, cradle...you actually find an equivalency between monuments erected to founders of this country and those who specifically fought to tear it apart...on behalf of maintaining slavery???

Put that aside, monuments erected specifically by avowed racists on behalf of white supremacy and Jim Crow in order to intimidate?

Certainly there must be some idiots on the extreme left who would conflate these, but I sure hear a lot more false equivalency coming out of the mouths of right wingers than I do these evil lefties that some seem so worried will erase all history.

Of course, perhaps that's why I'm a fiscally conservative leaning, socially progressive leaning moderate...it's the extremes which want to erase or whitewash history...

There's an enormous difference between having an honest appraisal of the full dimensionality of our predecessors, indeed an honest and fulsome understanding of history, and the maintenance of monuments to the worst of that history.... erected specifically by the worst of that history.

We can discern the difference, right?

Since this is a 50 (or 57 if you prefer) state experiment, why not start in West By God Virginia? We can take former KKK Grand Kleagle Robert Byrd's name off of everything named after him. WV will need a federal grant just for the infrastructure projects alone.

I don't understand the "57". What's that in reference to?

Byrd sure did bring home the bacon for many years...but had quite the ugly history for sure. I'd have no problem with renaming bridges, etc. Do you, really?

I don't feel the same way, though, about bridges etc being named after the Senator who secured the funding than I do KKK erected monuments to "heroes of the Confederacy" erected to intimidate during Jim Crow...

[kramerica.inc]

I'm from peasant Baltic farmer stock. My grandparents came here to avoid the Russians and find loamier soil. I have no clue what was going on here pre-1940. I didn't build any statues. I don't oppress anyone. So I'll let you guys figure out how to fix it.

Hey man YOUR WHITE.

GUILTY!

White = privileged in America.

Privileged? Ok.

That ancestry swab told me I have a blend of everything.

So I don't identify as white. Even if I look it.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'm from peasant Baltic farmer stock. My grandparents came here to avoid the Russians and find loamier soil. I have no clue what was going on here pre-1940. I didn't build any statues. I don't oppress anyone. So I'll let you guys figure out how to fix it.

Hey man YOUR WHITE.

GUILTY!

White = privileged in America.

Privileged? Ok.

That ancestry swab told me I have a blend of everything.

So I don't identify as white. Even if I look it.

yeah, it's that "look it" part...

[ggait]

I hear "many people are saying" that I can use my iPhone to jam police signals.

Must be true. Totally the kind of thing you would expect Tim Apple to nefariously do.

As a documented TDS commie libturd police defunding FLP Antifa anarchist, I just gotta have this.

But I searched for "police scanner jammer" in the App store and came up empty.

Can anyone help?

Maybe Peter Brown knows something about this?

Thx.

[RedFromMI]

I hear "many people are saying" that I can use my iPhone to jam police signals.

Must be true. Totally the kind of thing you would expect Tim Apple to nefariously do.

As a documented TDS commie libturd police defunding FLP Antifa anarchist, I just gotta have this.

But I searched for "police scanner jammer" in the App store and came up empty.

Can anyone help?

Maybe Peter Brown knows something about this?

Thx.

Ya have to go to the special Antifa app store...

[DMac]

I hold the old guy moreso (is it one or two words...your choice, I guess) accountable for his head injury than I do the police. It goes in the category of what the phukk did you think was going to happen, IMO. You've got a group of police who are instructed to clear the streets, agree with that or not, that's what they're instructed to do. These guys are all on edge, adrenaline rushing, all senses operating at high level. It is much wiser to clear the path than to confront a group who are in that state of mind, not to mention MUCH wiser for a 75 year old to not get in the middle of that group. Be smarter about how you're going to protest unless, of course, your objective is to become a martyr.

[kramerica.inc]

I'm from peasant Baltic farmer stock. My grandparents came here to avoid the Russians and find loamier soil. I have no clue what was going on here pre-1940. I didn't build any statues. I don't oppress anyone. So I'll let you guys figure out how to fix it.

Hey man YOUR WHITE.

GUILTY!

White = privileged in America.

Privileged? Ok.

That ancestry swab told me I have a blend of everything.

So I don't identify as white. Even if I look it.

yeah, it's that "look it" part...

Doesn't matter what I look like. Or what I was at birth. Or what I am according to science or DNA. I am only what I identify as. You and your hateful people can't tell me otherwise.

[ggait]

Ya have to go to the special Antifa app store...

Right. Too bad that going to that store automatically sends all your personal info directly to Bully Bill Barr.

Do you need a wifi connection to scan/jam the cops? Or is bluetooth enough?

And since I'm a menacing gray haired guy, I need to make sure to wear a helmet to my next scan/jam protest event. Will be tough to find one in a color that will match my Che Guevara t-shirt.

[Matnum PI]

So some clarification... when does the Washington monument become part of the bullseye?

There are statues of Washington because he's the father of our nation, militarily and politically. If some amazing data fell from the sky to prove that Washington was actually an English spy who was trying to destroy our nation and didn't actually do all the positive things he's preported to have done, then he gets a bullseye. Otherwise, he's safely not a target.

[Typical Lax Dad]

start up a list. i even have solutions.

the city of washington needs to be renamed, please just call it columbia and move on.

of course that raises the same issue. columbus ave, columbus circle, columbus ohio.

all those public universities in virginia. maybe VCU stays.

while we are at it- so goes the state of washington. maybe call it olympia (did they have slaves?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Greece).

wash square park. washington street.

madison ave- gone. should be 4 and a half ave. madison square park & MSG.

penn station. the state of pennsylvania. penn state univ. one penn plaza (see MSG).

houston street, no one really agrees on how to pronounce it anyway. call it zero street, i do.

avenue of the americas? just go back to 6th. vespucci had slaves. lots of em.

which brings me to america- whoops.

They knocked down burned and beheaded Columbus statues last night.

Human exploration risk and courage be damned.

More history that you were not taught in school.

[foreverlax]

I'm from peasant Baltic farmer stock. My grandparents came here to avoid the Russians and find loamier soil. I have no clue what was going on here pre-1940. I didn't build any statues. I don't oppress anyone. So I'll let you guys figure out how to fix it.

Hey man YOUR WHITE.

GUILTY!

White = privileged in America.

Privileged? Ok.

That ancestry swab told me I have a blend of everything.

So I don't identify as white. Even if I look it.

And that is the issue - if you look white you are and that is all fine, until someone finds our you're not a WASP or Gay and your privileged goes away.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

So some clarification... when does the Washington monument become part of the bullseye?

There are statues of Washington because he's the father of our nation, militarily and politically. If some amazing data fell from the sky to prove that Washington was actually an English spy who was trying to destroy our nation and didn't actually do all the positive things he's preported to have done, then he gets a bullseye. Otherwise, he's safely not a target.

soooooo... slavery overlooked here because he did some good on the battlefield? wonder what BLM thinks.

is this movement about oppression, or rebellion against the state? both???

[Kismet]

So some clarification... when does the Washington monument become part of the bullseye?

There are statues of Washington because he's the father of our nation, militarily and politically. If some amazing data fell from the sky to prove that Washington was actually an English spy who was trying to destroy our nation and didn't actually do all the positive things he's preported to have done, then he gets a bullseye. Otherwise, he's safely not a target.

soooooo... slavery overlooked here because he did some good on the battlefield? wonder what BLM thinks.

is this movement about oppression, or rebellion against the state? both???

6 out of the first 13 Presidents of the United States were slaveowners while serving as President - Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jackson and Taylor. Only Washington, Monroe, Taylor and Jaclson served in the military on the battlefield. In addition, Harrison, Polk, Tyler and Van Buren all owned slaves prior to becoming President but not while in office (Only Harrison served in the military on the battlefield).

I don't think we want to go very far down this road. Confederate monuments/namings are a total different case.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I'm from peasant Baltic farmer stock. My grandparents came here to avoid the Russians and find loamier soil. I have no clue what was going on here pre-1940. I didn't build any statues. I don't oppress anyone. So I'll let you guys figure out how to fix it.

Hey man YOUR WHITE.

GUILTY!

White = privileged in America.

Privileged? Ok.

That ancestry swab told me I have a blend of everything.

So I don't identify as white. Even if I look it.

And that is the issue - if you look white you are and that is all fine, until someone finds our you're not a WASP or Gay and your privileged goes away.

This happened to a family friend. An interesting story.

[kramerica.inc]

So some clarification... when does the Washington monument become part of the bullseye?

There are statues of Washington because he's the father of our nation, militarily and politically. If some amazing data fell from the sky to prove that Washington was actually an English spy who was trying to destroy our nation and didn't actually do all the positive things he's preported to have done, then he gets a bullseye. Otherwise, he's safely not a target.

soooooo... slavery overlooked here because he did some good on the battlefield? wonder what BLM thinks.

is this movement about oppression, or rebellion against the state? both???

Colin Kaepernick couldn’t define his protest. It was all over the place before he finally landed on cops. Now BLM has a similar problem.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

So some clarification... when does the Washington monument become part of the bullseye?

There are statues of Washington because he's the father of our nation, militarily and politically. If some amazing data fell from the sky to prove that Washington was actually an English spy who was trying to destroy our nation and didn't actually do all the positive things he's preported to have done, then he gets a bullseye. Otherwise, he's safely not a target.

soooooo... slavery overlooked here because he did some good on the battlefield? wonder what BLM thinks.

is this movement about oppression, or rebellion against the state? both???

6 out of the first 13 Presidents of the United States were slaveowners while serving as President - Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jackson and Taylor. Only Washington, Monroe, Taylor and Jaclson served in the military on the battlefield. In addition, Harrison, Polk, Tyler and Van Buren all owned slaves prior to becoming President but not while in office (Only Harrison served in the military on the battlefield).

I don't think we want to go very far down this road. Confederate monuments/namings are a total different case.

so it is about rebellion against a state; not racism, nor slavery, nor oppression.

chris columbus- whoops.

[get it to x]

We can discern the difference, right?

Since this is a 50 (or 57 if you prefer) state experiment, why not start in West By God Virginia? We can take former KKK Grand Kleagle Robert Byrd's name off of everything named after him. WV will need a federal grant just for the infrastructure projects alone.
[/quote]

I don't understand the "57". What's that in reference to?


[/quote]

Refers to Obama saying there were 57 states in a speech. He must have been thinking about Ketchup. Some say he was confusing it with 57 Muslim countries.

[Kismet]

So some clarification... when does the Washington monument become part of the bullseye?

There are statues of Washington because he's the father of our nation, militarily and politically. If some amazing data fell from the sky to prove that Washington was actually an English spy who was trying to destroy our nation and didn't actually do all the positive things he's preported to have done, then he gets a bullseye. Otherwise, he's safely not a target.

soooooo... slavery overlooked here because he did some good on the battlefield? wonder what BLM thinks.

is this movement about oppression, or rebellion against the state? both???

6 out of the first 13 Presidents of the United States were slaveowners while serving as President - Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jackson and Taylor. Only Washington, Monroe, Taylor and Jaclson served in the military on the battlefield. In addition, Harrison, Polk, Tyler and Van Buren all owned slaves prior to becoming President but not while in office (Only Harrison served in the military on the battlefield).

I don't think we want to go very far down this road. Confederate monuments/namings are a total different case.

so it is about rebellion against a state; not racism, nor slavery, nor oppression.

chris columbus- whoops.

Yep. For me it is. We cannot change our history or the World's history for that matter - all those Presidents who owned slaves at those times were legally permitted to do so.

As for Columbus, no idea how he even enters the conversation - he pre-dates all this by a few hundred years. Slavery goes all the way back to Ancient Greece and Egypt and perhaps even earlier than that. It had been an accepted practice for literally 1000s of years.