Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[MDlaxfan76]

You and I totally agree about free speech, cradle.

I'm also not reaching any conclusions on what you may or may not find repugnant.

This is not about free speech, however.
It's the veneration of symbols that are directly un-American, on public property.

I may find the Confederate flag or a Nazi Swastika and what they represent repugnant but if someone wishes to hang such in his basement or even to wave it at a protest making clear who they really are, I'll defend that as protected speech.

But hang them as symbols to be venerated above public buildings? Nope.

Same for monuments built to intimidate a minority, to promote white supremacy. Not on public land. Nope.

[RedFromMI]

Stone Mountain Park is an interesting phenomenon - owned by the state of Georgia - it is the most visited destination in GA.

It is managed by the same company that runs/owns Dollywood under contract (Herschend pays the state for the right to run the park, and then keeps all the proceeds). A ton of stuff there - some of which has nothing to do with the Confederacy.

And if you have certain plane seats and approaches to Hartsfield you cannot miss it.

[cradleandshoot]

Having grown up in the Union North, but lived almost my entire adult life in the South - I can tell you that a significant part of that Confederate "heritage" is connected to erasing the real reasons for the Civil War.

Most of those monuments to Confederate heroes were part of a whole movement to re-define the reasons for the war (often called the War of Northern Aggression by some of them) that took place at the tail end of the 1800s and through the 1920s, when the KKK came into being and the Jim Crow laws removed the freed slaves from any semblance of power.

So those friends of cradle that see the issue as one of heritage and states rights were taught that way by a culture that had erased the actual history - in other words they had been fed a line of bull.

Quite different than the history I learned growing up in Michigan.

It's a little more complicated, as these descendants of those Jim Crow proponents of the early 1900's, who lynched thousands of blacks, were also those who spat on school children in the '50's and 60's, those who called out the dogs during the '60's. Those young anti-civil rights haters are the parents and grandparents of today. This has not gone away, in all too many cases. They have learned a language less blatantly racist, yet the underlying prejudices all too often remain.

America had over 360 years of state-sanctioned racism and is now just over 50 years into such state sanctions first becoming illegal, though they persisted nevertheless into the '70's and then de facto thereafter. It's early in this era.

MD, you are taking a philosophical discussion and applying to some of the poorest people in our country. They don't care about anything more than what their momma and poppa raised them to believe. I met many of these folks in 1980/81. I was taken aback in that their attitudes about the civil war had not changed one damn bit. I almost got my ass beat one time for saying to my friends cousin your side lost the war isn't it time to move on. To these folks it was not about slavery. Hell they were as dirt poor as any slave. They are a very stubborn and proud bunch of people have never really gotten over the fact that the south lost the war.

[RedFromMI]

They are a very stubborn and proud bunch of people have never really gotten over the fact that the south lost the war.

Yup.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

Stone Mountain Park is an interesting phenomenon - owned by the state of Georgia - it is the most visited destination in GA.

It is managed by the same company that runs/owns Dollywood under contract (Herschend pays the state for the right to run the park, and then keeps all the proceeds). A ton of stuff there - some of which has nothing to do with the Confederacy.

And if you have certain plane seats and approaches to Hartsfield you cannot miss it.

maybe that's it Red- the money is too good. i bet rushmore gets a lot of visitors too. enough to make it convenient.

[DMac]

As long as we're cancelling all kinds of stuff,
can we cancel Peter Brown while we're at?
You know, just for being such an aszwhole
and spreading all kinds of falsehoods.

[6ftstick]

Stone Mountain Park is an interesting phenomenon - owned by the state of Georgia - it is the most visited destination in GA.

It is managed by the same company that runs/owns Dollywood under contract (Herschend pays the state for the right to run the park, and then keeps all the proceeds). A ton of stuff there - some of which has nothing to do with the Confederacy.

And if you have certain plane seats and approaches to Hartsfield you cannot miss it.

maybe that's it Red- the money is too good. i bet rushmore gets a lot of visitors too. enough to make it convenient.

Dynamite Rushmore! Defund Police!

[cradleandshoot]

You and I totally agree about free speech, cradle.

I'm also not reaching any conclusions on what you may or may not find repugnant.

This is not about free speech, however.
It's the veneration of symbols that are directly un-American, on public property.

I may find the Confederate flag or a Nazi Swastika and what they represent repugnant but if someone wishes to hang such in his basement or even to wave it at a protest making clear who they really are, I'll defend that as protected speech.

But hang them as symbols to be venerated above public buildings? Nope.

Same for monuments built to intimidate a minority, to promote white supremacy. Not on public land. Nope.

I agree 100% on public buildings they have no right to be displayed. The problem is that some folks feel the same way about Washington, Adams and Jefferson. If people have a legitimate gripe do we tear down the Washington monument? Where do we as a country now draw the line to appease people that are offended?

[6ftstick]

Having grown up in the Union North, but lived almost my entire adult life in the South - I can tell you that a significant part of that Confederate "heritage" is connected to erasing the real reasons for the Civil War.

Most of those monuments to Confederate heroes were part of a whole movement to re-define the reasons for the war (often called the War of Northern Aggression by some of them) that took place at the tail end of the 1800s and through the 1920s, when the KKK came into being and the Jim Crow laws removed the freed slaves from any semblance of power.

So those friends of cradle that see the issue as one of heritage and states rights were taught that way by a culture that had erased the actual history - in other words they had been fed a line of bull.

Quite different than the history I learned growing up in Michigan.

It's a little more complicated, as these descendants of those Jim Crow proponents of the early 1900's, who lynched thousands of blacks, were also those who spat on school children in the '50's and 60's, those who called out the dogs during the '60's. Those young anti-civil rights haters are the parents and grandparents of today. This has not gone away, in all too many cases. They have learned a language less blatantly racist, yet the underlying prejudices all too often remain.

America had over 360 years of state-sanctioned racism and is now just over 50 years into such state sanctions first becoming illegal, though they persisted nevertheless into the '70's and then de facto thereafter. It's early in this era.

MD, you are taking a philosophical discussion and applying to some of the poorest people in our country. They don't care about anything more than what their momma and poppa raised them to believe. I met many of these folks in 1980/81. I was taken aback in that their attitudes about the civil war had not changed one damn bit. I almost got my ass beat one time for saying to my friends cousin your side lost the war isn't it time to move on. To these folks it was not about slavery. Hell they were as dirt poor as any slave. They are a very stubborn and proud bunch of people have never really gotten over the fact that the south lost the war.

Cradle are you as astonished as I am at how many liberals posting here hate the country, the constitution, our history, the founding fathers, white people, christians and cops.

I'm beginning to think they're all Russian and Chinese bots. Sowing division and anarchy. It can't all be TDS. LOL

[Peter Brown]

As long as we're cancelling all kinds of stuff,
can we cancel Peter Brown while we're at?
You know, just for being such an aszwhole
and spreading all kinds of falsehoods.

Just in case:

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-chi ... he-media-2

No dissent allowed!! Power to the People! Always Prepared! Democrats control Seattle in soon-to-be-toxic waste zone!

https://www.rt.com/usa/491347-seattle-a ... ne-police/

[Peter Brown]

Having grown up in the Union North, but lived almost my entire adult life in the South - I can tell you that a significant part of that Confederate "heritage" is connected to erasing the real reasons for the Civil War.

Most of those monuments to Confederate heroes were part of a whole movement to re-define the reasons for the war (often called the War of Northern Aggression by some of them) that took place at the tail end of the 1800s and through the 1920s, when the KKK came into being and the Jim Crow laws removed the freed slaves from any semblance of power.

So those friends of cradle that see the issue as one of heritage and states rights were taught that way by a culture that had erased the actual history - in other words they had been fed a line of bull.

Quite different than the history I learned growing up in Michigan.

It's a little more complicated, as these descendants of those Jim Crow proponents of the early 1900's, who lynched thousands of blacks, were also those who spat on school children in the '50's and 60's, those who called out the dogs during the '60's. Those young anti-civil rights haters are the parents and grandparents of today. This has not gone away, in all too many cases. They have learned a language less blatantly racist, yet the underlying prejudices all too often remain.

America had over 360 years of state-sanctioned racism and is now just over 50 years into such state sanctions first becoming illegal, though they persisted nevertheless into the '70's and then de facto thereafter. It's early in this era.

MD, you are taking a philosophical discussion and applying to some of the poorest people in our country. They don't care about anything more than what their momma and poppa raised them to believe. I met many of these folks in 1980/81. I was taken aback in that their attitudes about the civil war had not changed one damn bit. I almost got my ass beat one time for saying to my friends cousin your side lost the war isn't it time to move on. To these folks it was not about slavery. Hell they were as dirt poor as any slave. They are a very stubborn and proud bunch of people have never really gotten over the fact that the south lost the war.

Cradle are you as astonished as I am at how many liberals posting here hate the country, the constitution, our history, the founding fathers, white people, christians and cops.

I'm beginning to think they're all Russian and Chinese bots. Sowing division and anarchy. It can't all be TDS. LOL

It's a feature not a bug.

[kramerica.inc]

I'm from peasant Baltic farmer stock. My grandparents came here to avoid the Russians and find loamier soil. I have no clue what was going on here pre-1940. I didn't build any statues. I don't oppress anyone. So I'll let you guys figure out how to fix it.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

start up a list. i even have solutions.

the city of washington needs to be renamed, please just call it columbia and move on.

of course that raises the same issue. columbus ave, columbus circle, columbus ohio.

all those public universities in virginia. maybe VCU stays.

while we are at it- so goes the state of washington. maybe call it olympia (did they have slaves?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Greece).

wash square park. washington street.

madison ave- gone. should be 4 and a half ave. madison square park & MSG.

penn station. the state of pennsylvania. penn state univ. one penn plaza (see MSG).

houston street, no one really agrees on how to pronounce it anyway. call it zero street, i do.

avenue of the americas? just go back to 6th. vespucci had slaves. lots of em.

which brings me to america- whoops.

[6ftstick]

I'm from peasant Baltic farmer stock. My grandparents came here to avoid the Russians and find loamier soil. I have no clue what was going on here pre-1940. I didn't build any statues. I don't oppress anyone. So I'll let you guys figure out how to fix it.

Hey man YOUR WHITE.

GUILTY!

[foreverlax]

I'm from peasant Baltic farmer stock. My grandparents came here to avoid the Russians and find loamier soil. I have no clue what was going on here pre-1940. I didn't build any statues. I don't oppress anyone. So I'll let you guys figure out how to fix it.

Hey man YOUR WHITE.

GUILTY!

White = privileged in America.

[6ftstick]

start up a list. i even have solutions.

the city of washington needs to be renamed, please just call it columbia and move on.

of course that raises the same issue. columbus ave, columbus circle, columbus ohio.

all those public universities in virginia. maybe VCU stays.

while we are at it- so goes the state of washington. maybe call it olympia (did they have slaves?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Greece).

wash square park. washington street.

madison ave- gone. should be 4 and a half ave. madison square park & MSG.

penn station. the state of pennsylvania. penn state univ. one penn plaza (see MSG).

houston street, no one really agrees on how to pronounce it anyway. call it zero street, i do.

avenue of the americas? just go back to 6th. vespucci had slaves. lots of em.

which brings me to america- whoops.

They knocked down burned and beheaded Columbus statues last night.

Human exploration risk and courage be damned.

[Brooklyn]

As long as we're cancelling all kinds of stuff,
can we cancel Peter Brown while we're at?
You know, just for being such an aszwhole
and spreading all kinds of falsehoods.

Gotta admit that he sure does a great job of making Republicans look dumb. While this is not an altogether difficult task to do, his work in this regard is truly noteworthy.

[Brooklyn]

New York Senate Votes to Overturn 44-Year-Old Law Shielding Police Disciplinary Records
“New Yorkers will be better able to hold their police department accountable for misconduct committed in their communities,” says one advocate of repeal of provision 50-A


https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... t-1012357/


“All personnel records used to evaluate performance toward continued employment or promotion, under the control of any police agency or department of the state … shall be considered confidential and not subject to inspection or review without the express written consent of such police officer, firefighter, firefighter/paramedic, correction officer or peace officer …. except as may be mandated by lawful court order,” the provision states.



While certainly a good step in the right direction, much more needs to be done. Let'e eliminate all immunity from prosecution and impose very stiff sentences for their crimes. Society will be far safer and stable for doing so.

[runrussellrun]

You and I totally agree about free speech, cradle.

I'm also not reaching any conclusions on what you may or may not find repugnant.

This is not about free speech, however.
It's the veneration of symbols that are directly un-American, on public property.

I may find the Confederate flag or a Nazi Swastika and what they represent repugnant but if someone wishes to hang such in his basement or even to wave it at a protest making clear who they really are, I'll defend that as protected speech.

But hang them as symbols to be venerated above public buildings? Nope.

Same for monuments built to intimidate a minority, to promote white supremacy. Not on public land. Nope.

I agree 100% on public buildings they have no right to be displayed. The problem is that some folks feel the same way about Washington, Adams and Jefferson. If people have a legitimate gripe do we tear down the Washington monument? Where do we as a country now draw the line to appease people that are offended?

Adams? While certainly one of the orginal oligarchs and TAATS, where does he have a statue? Also, besides his spitting in the faces of those that actually FOUGHT against the King, Adams actually wanted many soldiers to swing (Shaysian's rebellion ) , why Adams? He didn't own slaves.

Speaking of Adams, where does he have a statue ?

[runrussellrun]

New York Senate Votes to Overturn 44-Year-Old Law Shielding Police Disciplinary Records
“New Yorkers will be better able to hold their police department accountable for misconduct committed in their communities,” says one advocate of repeal of provision 50-A


https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... t-1012357/


“All personnel records used to evaluate performance toward continued employment or promotion, under the control of any police agency or department of the state … shall be considered confidential and not subject to inspection or review without the express written consent of such police officer, firefighter, firefighter/paramedic, correction officer or peace officer …. except as may be mandated by lawful court order,” the provision states.



While certainly a good step in the right direction, much more needs to be done. Let'e eliminate all immunity from prosecution and impose very stiff sentences for their crimes. Society will be far safer and stable for doing so.

This is good news.

44 years eh? And you blame CONservatives for the pig cops being protected from legal action, rehpremands. ? When's the last time NYcity, or CONservtives, controlled the New York legislature? An pretend COnservative as Governor?