Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[Peter Brown]

Germany has systematically destroyed its Nazi monuments.

It is now time for the United States to destroy all Confederate monuments. We can begin by destroying the Ku Klux Klan monument to Davis, Lee, and Jackson on Stone Mountain in Georgia. It should be replaced by a monument to African Americans who suffered in slavery.

Most of the large monuments began to appear in the early 20th Century, long after the war ended in 1865. The goal was not to preserve "Southern heritage," as the monuments' defenders now claim. Instead, the goal was to install white-supremacist icons that would intimidate African Americans and enforce whites' supremacy. Historian W. Fitzhugh Brundage, for example, has written that the monuments "were sometimes explicitly linked to the cause of white supremacy by the notables who spoke at their dedication" and that white industrialist Julian Carr "unambiguously urged his audience to devote themselves to the maintenance of white supremacy with the same vigor that their Confederate ancestors had defended slavery.

The history of the giant carvings on Stone Mountain, near Atlanta, is instructive. Planning of the carvings began only in 1914. Substantial funding for the project came from the KKK, which met on the mountain's top to burn crosses and the project's first directors and promoters were Klan members. The original plan was to depict General Robert E. Lee leading Confederate soldiers and Klan members up the mountain. Many other Confederate monuments were erected during this period, helping consolidate Jim Crow's racist hierarchy.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/opinions ... index.html

DocBarrister

well since we are going after anything associated with Lee, let's just get rid of W&L as well. or are you telling me there is no ode to the general anywhere on campus?

Any chance we can also get rid of Sheila Jackson Lee? She has two oppressive old white men in her name.

You just know DocB is down with speech suppression, book burning, and totalitarianism. No doubt he is good with Gone with the Wind being removed from HBO's streaming service.

What absolute fascist clowns, the whole Democratic Party.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hbo-max-pu ... 4?mod=e2tw

[DocBarrister]

Germany has systematically destroyed its Nazi monuments.

It is now time for the United States to destroy all Confederate monuments. We can begin by destroying the Ku Klux Klan monument to Davis, Lee, and Jackson on Stone Mountain in Georgia. It should be replaced by a monument to African Americans who suffered in slavery.

Most of the large monuments began to appear in the early 20th Century, long after the war ended in 1865. The goal was not to preserve "Southern heritage," as the monuments' defenders now claim. Instead, the goal was to install white-supremacist icons that would intimidate African Americans and enforce whites' supremacy. Historian W. Fitzhugh Brundage, for example, has written that the monuments "were sometimes explicitly linked to the cause of white supremacy by the notables who spoke at their dedication" and that white industrialist Julian Carr "unambiguously urged his audience to devote themselves to the maintenance of white supremacy with the same vigor that their Confederate ancestors had defended slavery.

The history of the giant carvings on Stone Mountain, near Atlanta, is instructive. Planning of the carvings began only in 1914. Substantial funding for the project came from the KKK, which met on the mountain's top to burn crosses and the project's first directors and promoters were Klan members. The original plan was to depict General Robert E. Lee leading Confederate soldiers and Klan members up the mountain. Many other Confederate monuments were erected during this period, helping consolidate Jim Crow's racist hierarchy.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/opinions ... index.html

DocBarrister

well since we are going after anything associated with Lee, let's just get rid of W&L as well. or are you telling me there is no ode to the general anywhere on campus?

Any chance we can also get rid of Sheila Jackson Lee? She has two oppressive old white men in her name.

You just know DocB is down with speech suppression, book burning, and totalitarianism. No doubt he is good with Gone with the Wind being removed from HBO's streaming service.

What absolute fascist clowns, the whole Democratic Party.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hbo-max-pu ... 4?mod=e2tw

Are you gentlemen really defending a monument at Stone Mountain put up by the Ku Klux Klan?

Because if you are, state so clearly here. Let’s start with the easy stuff and then go on down the line.

The Germans made difficult decisions and choices. I’m sure the United States can as well.

I wanted Gone with the Wind on HBO Max, but I understand those who wouldn’t.

As for Washington & Lee ... let’s begin by removing the name of the guy who betrayed the United States and killed fellow Americans during the Civil War (Lee) and restore it to its former 19th century name (Washington College) and go from there. We can discuss Washington himself later.

Sit down ... this could take a while.

Anyway ... are any of you actually supporting the KKK monument on Stone Mountain?

Good ... it goes.

DocBarrister

[RedFromMI]

Germany has systematically destroyed its Nazi monuments.

It is now time for the United States to destroy all Confederate monuments. We can begin by destroying the Ku Klux Klan monument to Davis, Lee, and Jackson on Stone Mountain in Georgia. It should be replaced by a monument to African Americans who suffered in slavery.

Most of the large monuments began to appear in the early 20th Century, long after the war ended in 1865. The goal was not to preserve "Southern heritage," as the monuments' defenders now claim. Instead, the goal was to install white-supremacist icons that would intimidate African Americans and enforce whites' supremacy. Historian W. Fitzhugh Brundage, for example, has written that the monuments "were sometimes explicitly linked to the cause of white supremacy by the notables who spoke at their dedication" and that white industrialist Julian Carr "unambiguously urged his audience to devote themselves to the maintenance of white supremacy with the same vigor that their Confederate ancestors had defended slavery.

The history of the giant carvings on Stone Mountain, near Atlanta, is instructive. Planning of the carvings began only in 1914. Substantial funding for the project came from the KKK, which met on the mountain's top to burn crosses and the project's first directors and promoters were Klan members. The original plan was to depict General Robert E. Lee leading Confederate soldiers and Klan members up the mountain. Many other Confederate monuments were erected during this period, helping consolidate Jim Crow's racist hierarchy.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/opinions ... index.html

DocBarrister

well since we are going after anything associated with Lee, let's just get rid of W&L as well. or are you telling me there is no ode to the general anywhere on campus?

Any chance we can also get rid of Sheila Jackson Lee? She has two oppressive old white men in her name.

You just know DocB is down with speech suppression, book burning, and totalitarianism. No doubt he is good with Gone with the Wind being removed from HBO's streaming service.

What absolute fascist clowns, the whole Democratic Party.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hbo-max-pu ... 4?mod=e2tw

Are you gentlemen really defending a monument at Stone Mountain put up by the Ku Klux Klan?

Because if you are, state so clearly here. Let’s start with the easy stuff and then go on down the line.

The Germans made difficult decisions and choices. I’m sure the United States can as well.

I wanted Gone with the Wind on HBO Max, but I understand those who wouldn’t.

As for Washington & Lee ... let’s begin by removing the name of the guy who betrayed the United States and killed fellow Americans during the Civil War (Lee) and restore it to its former 19th century name (Washington College) and go from there. We can discuss Washington himself later.

Sit down ... this could take a while.

Anyway ... are any of you actually supporting the KKK monument on Stone Mountain?

Good ... it goes.

DocBarrister

And as I pointed out (and provided a link to NYT) HBO Max will eventually bring Gone With The Wind back with a contextual explanation attached...

[Kismet]

Germany has systematically destroyed its Nazi monuments.

It is now time for the United States to destroy all Confederate monuments. We can begin by destroying the Ku Klux Klan monument to Davis, Lee, and Jackson on Stone Mountain in Georgia. It should be replaced by a monument to African Americans who suffered in slavery.

Most of the large monuments began to appear in the early 20th Century, long after the war ended in 1865. The goal was not to preserve "Southern heritage," as the monuments' defenders now claim. Instead, the goal was to install white-supremacist icons that would intimidate African Americans and enforce whites' supremacy. Historian W. Fitzhugh Brundage, for example, has written that the monuments "were sometimes explicitly linked to the cause of white supremacy by the notables who spoke at their dedication" and that white industrialist Julian Carr "unambiguously urged his audience to devote themselves to the maintenance of white supremacy with the same vigor that their Confederate ancestors had defended slavery.

The history of the giant carvings on Stone Mountain, near Atlanta, is instructive. Planning of the carvings began only in 1914. Substantial funding for the project came from the KKK, which met on the mountain's top to burn crosses and the project's first directors and promoters were Klan members. The original plan was to depict General Robert E. Lee leading Confederate soldiers and Klan members up the mountain. Many other Confederate monuments were erected during this period, helping consolidate Jim Crow's racist hierarchy.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/opinions ... index.html

DocBarrister

well since we are going after anything associated with Lee, let's just get rid of W&L as well. or are you telling me there is no ode to the general anywhere on campus?

Any chance we can also get rid of Sheila Jackson Lee? She has two oppressive old white men in her name.

Good one X. This is getting pretty inane - HBO Max announced today that it has removed "Gone With the Wind" from its catalog. The 1939 film's rose-tinted depiction of the antebellum South and its blindness to the horrors of slavery have long been criticized, and that scrutiny was renewed this week. Do they realize that the film was made in 1939 over 80 years ago and that most folks see it as a movie in the context of when it was made.
Also read today that Walt Disney Company indicated that Disney+, their new streaming platform will not contain Song of the South, made in 1946 for similar cultural reasons - like GWTW, the film won an Academy Award - for Best Song "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah" and a special award went to black actor, James Baskett "for his able and heart-warming characterization of Uncle Remus, friend and story teller to the children of the world in Walt Disney's Song of the South." He was the first African-American male actor to win an Academy Award.

Both films were based on legitimate American Literature. They can be viewed with appropriate modern context without essentially banning them as if they were propaganda out of Orwell's 1984. Sheesh.

In addition, Merriam-Webster is revising its definition of racism after a Missouri woman’s emails claimed it fell short of including the systemic oppression of certain groups of people.

Enough already.

We are supposed to LEARN from our history not SUPPRESS it.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

Germany has systematically destroyed its Nazi monuments.

It is now time for the United States to destroy all Confederate monuments. We can begin by destroying the Ku Klux Klan monument to Davis, Lee, and Jackson on Stone Mountain in Georgia. It should be replaced by a monument to African Americans who suffered in slavery.

Most of the large monuments began to appear in the early 20th Century, long after the war ended in 1865. The goal was not to preserve "Southern heritage," as the monuments' defenders now claim. Instead, the goal was to install white-supremacist icons that would intimidate African Americans and enforce whites' supremacy. Historian W. Fitzhugh Brundage, for example, has written that the monuments "were sometimes explicitly linked to the cause of white supremacy by the notables who spoke at their dedication" and that white industrialist Julian Carr "unambiguously urged his audience to devote themselves to the maintenance of white supremacy with the same vigor that their Confederate ancestors had defended slavery.

The history of the giant carvings on Stone Mountain, near Atlanta, is instructive. Planning of the carvings began only in 1914. Substantial funding for the project came from the KKK, which met on the mountain's top to burn crosses and the project's first directors and promoters were Klan members. The original plan was to depict General Robert E. Lee leading Confederate soldiers and Klan members up the mountain. Many other Confederate monuments were erected during this period, helping consolidate Jim Crow's racist hierarchy.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/opinions ... index.html

DocBarrister

well since we are going after anything associated with Lee, let's just get rid of W&L as well. or are you telling me there is no ode to the general anywhere on campus?

Any chance we can also get rid of Sheila Jackson Lee? She has two oppressive old white men in her name.

You just know DocB is down with speech suppression, book burning, and totalitarianism. No doubt he is good with Gone with the Wind being removed from HBO's streaming service.

What absolute fascist clowns, the whole Democratic Party.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hbo-max-pu ... 4?mod=e2tw

Are you gentlemen really defending a monument at Stone Mountain put up by the Ku Klux Klan?

Because if you are, state so clearly here. Let’s start with the easy stuff and then go on down the line.

The Germans made difficult decisions and choices. I’m sure the United States can as well.

I wanted Gone with the Wind on HBO Max, but I understand those who wouldn’t.

As for Washington & Lee ... let’s begin by removing the name of the guy who betrayed the United States and killed fellow Americans during the Civil War (Lee) and restore it to its former 19th century name (Washington College) and go from there. We can discuss Washington himself later.

Sit down ... this could take a while.

Anyway ... are any of you actually supporting the KKK monument on Stone Mountain?

Good ... it goes.

DocBarrister

no. in fact, i agree with you. (easy)

im asking where does this end. we have a way of painting ourselves into a corner. just checking ahead of time before it dries. (hard)

[RedFromMI]

‘What I saw was just absolutely wrong’: National Guardsmen struggle with their role in controlling protests

POLITICO spoke to 10 National Guardsmen who have taken part in the protest response across the country since the killing of George Floyd while in police custody.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/0 ... sts-309932

POLITICO spoke to 10 National Guardsmen who have taken part in the protest response across the country since the killing of George Floyd while in police custody. Many Guardsmen said they felt uncomfortable with the way they were used to handle the unrest because demonstrators lumped them in with the police. They felt that while they swore an oath to uphold the Constitution, their presence at times intimidated Americans from expressing their opinions and even escalated the tension.

And in the case of Guardsmen involved in the Lafayette incident, some felt used.

“As a military officer, what I saw was more or less really f---ed up,” said one D.C. Guardsman who was deployed to Lafayette Square last Monday and who, like some others, spoke on condition of anonymity to speak freely. The official line from the White House that the protesters had turned violent, he said, is false.

“The crowd was loud but peaceful, and at no point did I feel in danger, and I was standing right there in the front of the line,” he said. “A lot of us are still struggling to process this, but in a lot of ways, I believe I saw civil rights being violated in order for a photo op.

“I’m here to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and what I just saw goes against my oath and to see everyone try to cover up what really happened,” the Guardsman continued. “What I saw was just absolutely wrong.”
Trump: 'I am mobilizing all federal resources, civilian and military to stop the rioting and looting'

Since the protest on Lafayette Square last Monday, much of the public’s attention has been focused on the decision to clear the area so Trump, flanked by advisers, could pose for photos in front of St. John’s Episcopal Church holding a bible.

In the days following, the debate shifted to whether the police used tear gas to break up the protests. The White House insisted they didn’t, yet a spokesperson for the park police later acknowledged to Vox that it was a mistake to be that definitive, since tear gas is an umbrella term covering a number of chemical irritants.

One of the Guardsmen at the scene said the White House isn’t being truthful.

“I’ve been tear gassed before. I was there the night before when we got tear gassed, there was tear gas there” on Monday evening, he said. He added that he and some of his soldiers felt the effects of the tear gas from their colleagues because they didn’t have masks on.

In a statement, Capt. Chelsi Johnson, a spokesperson for the D.C. National Guard, responded to accounts of Guardsmen who had been accidentally affected by tear gas.

“They were instructed to put their gas masks on if/when they were ordered to or they noticed the police were putting theirs on. Every Guardsman was issued a gas mask,” she said. The U.S. Park Police has acknowledged firing pepper balls into the crowd, which is also a chemical irritant.

While the Park Police cleared out the protesters, some Guardsmen said they felt they were there to actually prevent the police from beating up protesters, instead of the other way around.

“I felt that we were more protecting the people from the police,” said D.C. Guardsman Spec. Isaiah Lynch, who’s unrelated to Si’Kenya Lynch.

[kramerica.inc]

So yet another poster waking up to the golden opportunity staring American conservatives in the face. Is McConnell smart enough to step in, and provide funding to make this happen?

Here's a perfect example of what I'm getting at:

Chicago blows on police per year about $1.5 Billion per year.

Wanna guess how much they blow per year to pay retired police to NOT WORK? A half a billion dollars. Per year. To NOT serve and protect.

In what world does that make even a little sense?

Put me in charge. Every police officer would get massive, well-earned raises while they work. Massive.

But when they retire? That's it, not one more cent from the city. The police get paid fantastically well while they work....and the taxpayers aren't on the hook for trying to figure out what health care is going to cost for a retired policeman in 2050.

So let .gov offer .gov employees retirement plans with a up front, matched investment up to the standard 2.5 to 6%.

But I’ll take it a step further. If we’re going all-in on Medicare and universal healthcare, Defund all taxpayer-funded pensions. All of em.

Get rid of teacher pensions.

Congressional pensions? Lol- hell naw! Talk about another rip off of the American people. Has a congressman ever refused the pension? I’m going to say probably not. Or not many.

[SCLaxAttack]

Germany has systematically destroyed its Nazi monuments.

It is now time for the United States to destroy all Confederate monuments. We can begin by destroying the Ku Klux Klan monument to Davis, Lee, and Jackson on Stone Mountain in Georgia. It should be replaced by a monument to African Americans who suffered in slavery.

Most of the large monuments began to appear in the early 20th Century, long after the war ended in 1865. The goal was not to preserve "Southern heritage," as the monuments' defenders now claim. Instead, the goal was to install white-supremacist icons that would intimidate African Americans and enforce whites' supremacy. Historian W. Fitzhugh Brundage, for example, has written that the monuments "were sometimes explicitly linked to the cause of white supremacy by the notables who spoke at their dedication" and that white industrialist Julian Carr "unambiguously urged his audience to devote themselves to the maintenance of white supremacy with the same vigor that their Confederate ancestors had defended slavery.

The history of the giant carvings on Stone Mountain, near Atlanta, is instructive. Planning of the carvings began only in 1914. Substantial funding for the project came from the KKK, which met on the mountain's top to burn crosses and the project's first directors and promoters were Klan members. The original plan was to depict General Robert E. Lee leading Confederate soldiers and Klan members up the mountain. Many other Confederate monuments were erected during this period, helping consolidate Jim Crow's racist hierarchy.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/opinions ... index.html

DocBarrister

well since we are going after anything associated with Lee, let's just get rid of W&L as well. or are you telling me there is no ode to the general anywhere on campus?

Any chance we can also get rid of Sheila Jackson Lee? She has two oppressive old white men in her name.

You just know DocB is down with speech suppression, book burning, and totalitarianism. No doubt he is good with Gone with the Wind being removed from HBO's streaming service.

What absolute fascist clowns, the whole Democratic Party.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hbo-max-pu ... 4?mod=e2tw

Are you gentlemen really defending a monument at Stone Mountain put up by the Ku Klux Klan?

Because if you are, state so clearly here. Let’s start with the easy stuff and then go on down the line.

The Germans made difficult decisions and choices. I’m sure the United States can as well.

I wanted Gone with the Wind on HBO Max, but I understand those who wouldn’t.

As for Washington & Lee ... let’s begin by removing the name of the guy who betrayed the United States and killed fellow Americans during the Civil War (Lee) and restore it to its former 19th century name (Washington College) and go from there. We can discuss Washington himself later.

Sit down ... this could take a while.

Anyway ... are any of you actually supporting the KKK monument on Stone Mountain?

Good ... it goes.

DocBarrister

And as I pointed out (and provided a link to NYT) HBO Max will eventually bring Gone With The Wind back with a contextual explanation attached...

Like the obese president (Little Petey is ok with an R being obese, but obese Ds are lazy fools) he claims he has no interest in yet always defends, Little Petey thinks if he states a lie or half-truth over and over again, they’ll eventually becomes truths.

[RedFromMI]

Fascinating article in NYT about the shifts in public opinion, especially for BLM:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... d=tw-share

Check out this graph of support changes over time for several issues:

Screenshot_2020-06-10 How Public Opinion Has Moved on Black Lives Matter.png (69.4 KiB) Viewed 1841 times

[Kismet]

Germany has systematically destroyed its Nazi monuments.

It is now time for the United States to destroy all Confederate monuments. We can begin by destroying the Ku Klux Klan monument to Davis, Lee, and Jackson on Stone Mountain in Georgia. It should be replaced by a monument to African Americans who suffered in slavery.

Most of the large monuments began to appear in the early 20th Century, long after the war ended in 1865. The goal was not to preserve "Southern heritage," as the monuments' defenders now claim. Instead, the goal was to install white-supremacist icons that would intimidate African Americans and enforce whites' supremacy. Historian W. Fitzhugh Brundage, for example, has written that the monuments "were sometimes explicitly linked to the cause of white supremacy by the notables who spoke at their dedication" and that white industrialist Julian Carr "unambiguously urged his audience to devote themselves to the maintenance of white supremacy with the same vigor that their Confederate ancestors had defended slavery.

The history of the giant carvings on Stone Mountain, near Atlanta, is instructive. Planning of the carvings began only in 1914. Substantial funding for the project came from the KKK, which met on the mountain's top to burn crosses and the project's first directors and promoters were Klan members. The original plan was to depict General Robert E. Lee leading Confederate soldiers and Klan members up the mountain. Many other Confederate monuments were erected during this period, helping consolidate Jim Crow's racist hierarchy.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/opinions ... index.html

DocBarrister

well since we are going after anything associated with Lee, let's just get rid of W&L as well. or are you telling me there is no ode to the general anywhere on campus?

Any chance we can also get rid of Sheila Jackson Lee? She has two oppressive old white men in her name.

You just know DocB is down with speech suppression, book burning, and totalitarianism. No doubt he is good with Gone with the Wind being removed from HBO's streaming service.

What absolute fascist clowns, the whole Democratic Party.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hbo-max-pu ... 4?mod=e2tw

Are you gentlemen really defending a monument at Stone Mountain put up by the Ku Klux Klan?

Because if you are, state so clearly here. Let’s start with the easy stuff and then go on down the line.

The Germans made difficult decisions and choices. I’m sure the United States can as well.

I wanted Gone with the Wind on HBO Max, but I understand those who wouldn’t.

As for Washington & Lee ... let’s begin by removing the name of the guy who betrayed the United States and killed fellow Americans during the Civil War (Lee) and restore it to its former 19th century name (Washington College) and go from there. We can discuss Washington himself later.

Sit down ... this could take a while.

Anyway ... are any of you actually supporting the KKK monument on Stone Mountain?

Good ... it goes.

DocBarrister

no. in fact, i agree with you. (easy)

im asking where does this end. we have a way of painting ourselves into a corner. just checking ahead of time before it dries. (hard)

The school name was changed to recognize Robert E. Lee's contributions/reforms as the school president from 1865-70 during which he restored the school to fiscal health and instituted its Honor Code among many other contributions and reforms having nothing to do with his military service in the Civil War. George Washington (the other person in the name) was also a slave owner. IMHO Robert E. Lee made a significant contribution to his country prior to making a bad decision regarding his allegiance to that same country during the Civil War. HAs a result of that decision, he lost his family property and whatever fortune he amassed and he also knew he risked being executed as a traitor. There's a reasonable explanation why Lee, Davis and all those Confederates weren't tried as traitors and hung from the nearest scaffold - check out Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses Grant for the details.

That said, was surprised to learn upwards of 10 U.S. military bases are currently named after Confederate Generals - I agree that those names should be reconsidered - Heck, Fort Bragg is named after Braxton Bragg who was, arguably, one of the worst tactical commanders in the rebel army.

[kramerica.inc]

Defund the police and BLM is a huge step toward authoritarian social control veiled in the language of identity politics.

Now it doesn’t matter if you have lived a good life, been a good person. If you’re not marching or blacking our your Instagram account you’re the enemy!



This is straight out of the left’s playbook. We got a glimpse of the same strategy a few years ago with the debate over gay marriage. Disagree with the mob or cause du jour and you will be guilted and branded a racist, or whatever term they want to try and shame people with this time.



The real Police will cease to exist, but the woke Thought Police is coming for you! No more independent thought or opinion.

And no nuance whatsoever.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Wondering how she and her now adult children felt about their experience, especially in relation to other blacks in similar situations.

I went to a racially mixed inner city high school. No lacrosse there back then, still don’t as far as I know. Anyway, one of my closest friends was a black guy I met on the wrestling team. He didn’t know his father, his mom worked two jobs to care for him, his brother and sister. They all went to college and became pretty successful. He didn’t buy into the victim mentality. His mother wouldn’t let him and his siblings wallow in sorrow about their circumstances, she challenged them and expected them to succeed. Thus his mentality was the same. He’d say If we can overcome, others in similar situations can too. My words paraphrasing. His would often be more colorful . Later after we both had married, my wife would argue with him that blacks needed help through various endeavors, affirmative action or similar things. He would really get vocal in opposition, using himself and his siblings as examples.

This is a Don Lemon interview with Morgan Freeman from 2014, with quotes from Freeman that have been popping up lately.

About 8 mins long but interesting. I think my friend would agree with Mr. Freeman’s positions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StNCmOBDIag

My friend with the kids lived in a good community with outlets and programs to keep her kids active while she tried to make a living. She also had help from her mother who lived in town. I know another guy married with 5 kids. The guy is an ex-con from
Brooklyn. He had enough sense to want more for his kids so he sold his house in a modest town rented in a town with maybe the best school system in the state. His kids are doing well. One works in the US State Department, one in the Navy reserves while going to college, a third finished freshman year in college and two young kids at home. He is an Uber driver. His wife was a school nurse.

I went to the same type of middle and high school. Working class and poor kids. The victim mentality is over represented in the media and is propagated by conservatives. Most people I know just want to be treated fairly, including black people. I know plenty of people that managed to be successful despite tough conditions. Kids usually don’t wallow in pity. I do volunteer work in some tough communities. These are kids and they don’t know any better.

It doesn’t mean barriers don’t need to be addressed. My motto is, it all starts at home. Two parents is preferred, but I have plenty of black friends from single parent homes that have done well and some white friends that have done the same. Life is hard enough without artificial barriers being put in place based on skin color.

Racism is one of the greatest sub optimizers I know, but it keeps people distracted.

[Brooklyn]

get it to x


the left to have a dependent class. They have their own "poverty industrial complex" set up, keep them in their neighborhoods and every other November round 'em up and get them to the polls. Then platitudes and empty promises for the next two years. A lot of people make a lot of money keeping poor people poor. How can you have teachers retain their jobs when the results don't merit retention? Trust me, educated blacks are more inclined to think for themselves. Dem's can't afford too much of that.

Please give examples to prove your claim. I live in St Paul's West Side is the Hispanic part of town which makes it a ghetto. Identify that "poverty industrial complex". Also identify who is it that makes money keeping others poor.

why the lessened emphasis on the family

That's a no brainer ~ Read the full declaration and see where they say extension of family to include the entire community. Remember the old African adage = it takes a village to raise a child which is an affirmation of individual responsibility towards the entire community. It's a matter of inclusion, not exclusion or diminishing anyone's role.

There is no need for you to take something out of context in your attempt to denigrate someone. Use your head.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

who cares about military service.

he was an owner. isnt that enough?

[MDlaxfan76]

Germany has systematically destroyed its Nazi monuments.

It is now time for the United States to destroy all Confederate monuments. We can begin by destroying the Ku Klux Klan monument to Davis, Lee, and Jackson on Stone Mountain in Georgia. It should be replaced by a monument to African Americans who suffered in slavery.

Most of the large monuments began to appear in the early 20th Century, long after the war ended in 1865. The goal was not to preserve "Southern heritage," as the monuments' defenders now claim. Instead, the goal was to install white-supremacist icons that would intimidate African Americans and enforce whites' supremacy. Historian W. Fitzhugh Brundage, for example, has written that the monuments "were sometimes explicitly linked to the cause of white supremacy by the notables who spoke at their dedication" and that white industrialist Julian Carr "unambiguously urged his audience to devote themselves to the maintenance of white supremacy with the same vigor that their Confederate ancestors had defended slavery.

The history of the giant carvings on Stone Mountain, near Atlanta, is instructive. Planning of the carvings began only in 1914. Substantial funding for the project came from the KKK, which met on the mountain's top to burn crosses and the project's first directors and promoters were Klan members. The original plan was to depict General Robert E. Lee leading Confederate soldiers and Klan members up the mountain. Many other Confederate monuments were erected during this period, helping consolidate Jim Crow's racist hierarchy.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/opinions ... index.html

DocBarrister

well since we are going after anything associated with Lee, let's just get rid of W&L as well. or are you telling me there is no ode to the general anywhere on campus?

Any chance we can also get rid of Sheila Jackson Lee? She has two oppressive old white men in her name.

You just know DocB is down with speech suppression, book burning, and totalitarianism. No doubt he is good with Gone with the Wind being removed from HBO's streaming service.

What absolute fascist clowns, the whole Democratic Party.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hbo-max-pu ... 4?mod=e2tw

Are you gentlemen really defending a monument at Stone Mountain put up by the Ku Klux Klan?

Because if you are, state so clearly here. Let’s start with the easy stuff and then go on down the line.

The Germans made difficult decisions and choices. I’m sure the United States can as well.

I wanted Gone with the Wind on HBO Max, but I understand those who wouldn’t.

As for Washington & Lee ... let’s begin by removing the name of the guy who betrayed the United States and killed fellow Americans during the Civil War (Lee) and restore it to its former 19th century name (Washington College) and go from there. We can discuss Washington himself later.

Sit down ... this could take a while.

Anyway ... are any of you actually supporting the KKK monument on Stone Mountain?

Good ... it goes.

DocBarrister

no. in fact, i agree with you. (easy)

im asking where does this end. we have a way of painting ourselves into a corner. just checking ahead of time before it dries. (hard)

The school name was changed to recognize Robert E. Lee's contributions/reforms as the school president from 1865-70 during which he restored the school to fiscal health and instituted its Honor Code among many other contributions and reforms having nothing to do with his military service in the Civil War. George Washington (the other person in the name) was also a slave owner. IMHO Robert E. Lee made a significant contribution to his country prior to making a bad decision regarding his allegiance to that same country during the Civil War. HAs a result of that decision, he lost his family property and whatever fortune he amassed and he also knew he risked being executed as a traitor. There's a reasonable explanation why Lee, Davis and all those Confederates weren't tried as traitors and hung from the nearest scaffold - check out Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses Grant for the details.

That said, was surprised to learn upwards of 10 U.S. military bases are currently named after Confederate Generals - I agree that those names should be reconsidered - Heck, Fort Bragg is named after Braxton Bragg who was, arguably, one of the worst tactical commanders in the rebel army.

I agree. Focusing on W&L's name is a poor priority. Others are far more important, beginning with military bases.

Washington's gift of stock endowed the school, Lee served well as President post war, and his name was added shortly after his death in 1870. This was not part of Jim Crow. Lee is a complicated character, a man of considerable integrity, though tragically blinded to the implications of his actions. His descendants are quite vocal about their support for removal of statues erected to him that are really expressions of white supremacy.

Of course, the name of the university remains (and should be) a sensitive issue, quite worthy of exploration by its students. There have been a number of buildings renamed, portraits of the two men were changed to those with civilian rather than military attire, and graduates can elect to receive diplomas without their portraits, or with them. Students actively discuss this legacy with open eyes. Washing it all away as if not formative to the school would reduce such discussion and exploration.

Now, I say all that, yet would note that I have not spoken with black alums who may have a quite different perspective (my only connection is niece and many friends). I'd want to listen to their perspectives. And could be persuaded.

Re monuments in general, I think they should not be "destroyed" rather they should, whenever possible, be removed to museum settings and addressed as the artifacts of Jim Crow that they really are. We need to remember how ugly this period was... There may be some which cannot be placed in such settings, and to the extent that they remain potential symbols of white supremacy, I'm ok with their destruction.

[MDlaxfan76]

Germany has systematically destroyed its Nazi monuments.

It is now time for the United States to destroy all Confederate monuments. We can begin by destroying the Ku Klux Klan monument to Davis, Lee, and Jackson on Stone Mountain in Georgia. It should be replaced by a monument to African Americans who suffered in slavery.

Most of the large monuments began to appear in the early 20th Century, long after the war ended in 1865. The goal was not to preserve "Southern heritage," as the monuments' defenders now claim. Instead, the goal was to install white-supremacist icons that would intimidate African Americans and enforce whites' supremacy. Historian W. Fitzhugh Brundage, for example, has written that the monuments "were sometimes explicitly linked to the cause of white supremacy by the notables who spoke at their dedication" and that white industrialist Julian Carr "unambiguously urged his audience to devote themselves to the maintenance of white supremacy with the same vigor that their Confederate ancestors had defended slavery.

The history of the giant carvings on Stone Mountain, near Atlanta, is instructive. Planning of the carvings began only in 1914. Substantial funding for the project came from the KKK, which met on the mountain's top to burn crosses and the project's first directors and promoters were Klan members. The original plan was to depict General Robert E. Lee leading Confederate soldiers and Klan members up the mountain. Many other Confederate monuments were erected during this period, helping consolidate Jim Crow's racist hierarchy.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/opinions ... index.html

DocBarrister

well since we are going after anything associated with Lee, let's just get rid of W&L as well. or are you telling me there is no ode to the general anywhere on campus?

Any chance we can also get rid of Sheila Jackson Lee? She has two oppressive old white men in her name.

You just know DocB is down with speech suppression, book burning, and totalitarianism. No doubt he is good with Gone with the Wind being removed from HBO's streaming service.

What absolute fascist clowns, the whole Democratic Party.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hbo-max-pu ... 4?mod=e2tw

Are you gentlemen really defending a monument at Stone Mountain put up by the Ku Klux Klan?

Because if you are, state so clearly here. Let’s start with the easy stuff and then go on down the line.

The Germans made difficult decisions and choices. I’m sure the United States can as well.

I wanted Gone with the Wind on HBO Max, but I understand those who wouldn’t.

As for Washington & Lee ... let’s begin by removing the name of the guy who betrayed the United States and killed fellow Americans during the Civil War (Lee) and restore it to its former 19th century name (Washington College) and go from there. We can discuss Washington himself later.

Sit down ... this could take a while.

Anyway ... are any of you actually supporting the KKK monument on Stone Mountain?

Good ... it goes.

DocBarrister

And as I pointed out (and provided a link to NYT) HBO Max will eventually bring Gone With The Wind back with a contextual explanation attached...

Does this address your issue, Kismet?
Seems to me that all such 'art' should be preserved and context provided when shown, displayed, etc.
But not destroyed or hidden from view.

[cradleandshoot]

Germany has systematically destroyed its Nazi monuments.

It is now time for the United States to destroy all Confederate monuments. We can begin by destroying the Ku Klux Klan monument to Davis, Lee, and Jackson on Stone Mountain in Georgia. It should be replaced by a monument to African Americans who suffered in slavery.

Most of the large monuments began to appear in the early 20th Century, long after the war ended in 1865. The goal was not to preserve "Southern heritage," as the monuments' defenders now claim. Instead, the goal was to install white-supremacist icons that would intimidate African Americans and enforce whites' supremacy. Historian W. Fitzhugh Brundage, for example, has written that the monuments "were sometimes explicitly linked to the cause of white supremacy by the notables who spoke at their dedication" and that white industrialist Julian Carr "unambiguously urged his audience to devote themselves to the maintenance of white supremacy with the same vigor that their Confederate ancestors had defended slavery.

The history of the giant carvings on Stone Mountain, near Atlanta, is instructive. Planning of the carvings began only in 1914. Substantial funding for the project came from the KKK, which met on the mountain's top to burn crosses and the project's first directors and promoters were Klan members. The original plan was to depict General Robert E. Lee leading Confederate soldiers and Klan members up the mountain. Many other Confederate monuments were erected during this period, helping consolidate Jim Crow's racist hierarchy.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/opinions ... index.html

DocBarrister

well since we are going after anything associated with Lee, let's just get rid of W&L as well. or are you telling me there is no ode to the general anywhere on campus?

Any chance we can also get rid of Sheila Jackson Lee? She has two oppressive old white men in her name.

You just know DocB is down with speech suppression, book burning, and totalitarianism. No doubt he is good with Gone with the Wind being removed from HBO's streaming service.

What absolute fascist clowns, the whole Democratic Party.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hbo-max-pu ... 4?mod=e2tw

Are you gentlemen really defending a monument at Stone Mountain put up by the Ku Klux Klan?

Because if you are, state so clearly here. Let’s start with the easy stuff and then go on down the line.

The Germans made difficult decisions and choices. I’m sure the United States can as well.

I wanted Gone with the Wind on HBO Max, but I understand those who wouldn’t.

As for Washington & Lee ... let’s begin by removing the name of the guy who betrayed the United States and killed fellow Americans during the Civil War (Lee) and restore it to its former 19th century name (Washington College) and go from there. We can discuss Washington himself later.

Sit down ... this could take a while.

Anyway ... are any of you actually supporting the KKK monument on Stone Mountain?

Good ... it goes.

DocBarrister

I personally don't give a flying fig about the monument at Stone Mountain. If the folks in Georgia want to take it down... more power to them. Go for it. While they are at it they can address the inequities of those racist SOBs named Washington, Adam's and Jefferson. Those mother effing slave owning baztards need to get their comeuppance as well. That mother effing Washington monument has got to go...power to the sheeple. Let's just eradicate and erase the entire history of our nation. We can start over today from scratch and pretend none of our history prior to today ever even happened.

[Kismet]

who cares about military service.

he was an owner. isnt that enough?

Merely pointing out that the school did not name him President on the school primarily because of his military service to the Confederacy.

As for the larger question, in addition to his previously earned reputation and accomplishments Lee essentially lost just about everything in terms of tangible property as a result of his decision. He also knew that his life may also have been at risk (after all the only crime individually specified in the Constitution is treason.

Article III
Section 3

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.")

[Kismet]

[and as I pointed out (and provided a link to NYT) HBO Max will eventually bring Gone With The Wind back with a contextual explanation attached...

Does this address your issue, Kismet?
Seems to me that all such 'art' should be preserved and context provided when shown, displayed, etc.
But not destroyed or hidden from view.
[/quote]

They should have been smart enough to prepare the context and make it available simultaneously. It serves no purpose IMHO to deprive people of the ability to see GWTW. This is America, after all.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

who cares about military service.

he was an owner. isnt that enough?

Merely pointing out that the school did not name him President on the school primarily because of his military service to the Confederacy.

As for the larger question, in addition to his previously earned reputation and accomplishments Lee essentially lost just about everything in terms of tangible property as a result of his decision. He also knew that his life may also have been at risk (after all the only crime individually specified in the Constitution is treason.

Article III
Section 3

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.")

again who cares who named what and for what reason, and what they sacrificed. the "tangible property" he owned included human beings.

it's there, and it's a symbol of supremacy. why the hesitation???

that's a different way of asking- where does this end. the paint is drying!