Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[Typical Lax Dad]

“The term “tear gas” is applied to numerous substances, although the most common one currently in use internationally is what is called “CS gas.” CS is one of many so-called “nonlethal” chemical weapons referred to as “lachrymatory agents” (which comes from “lacrima,” the latin word for “tear.”) The category “lachrymatory agents” also includes chemicals commonly known as pepper spray (OC, PAVA) and mace (CN). Technically, tear gas and pepper spray are thought of as different substances. (For instance, most people probably think of tear gas as a gas and pepper spray as a liquid, however either chemical can come in various forms depending on how it is prepared.) However, they are both lachrymatory agents used by the state to stifle dissent and to terrorize prisoners, and they are often manufactured by the same companies (sometimes they are also combined in the same product.)”

[old salt]

By Salty's definition, cocaine and heroin would not be considered chemicals. Since they are derived from plants.

Nice to know that the feds are woke enough these days to only use organic, naturally occurring riot control agents on our citizens.

"Free of any artificial flavors or colorings! Just pure tasty chili pepper. After the riot, you can use it on your tacos!"

GMAFB

So are you advocating for dogs and fire hoses? What would you have them use?

How about obey the lawful orders of police and disperse when told to. Then nothing needs to be used.

The whole argument has been about whether or not the government is lying about what they did Monday to clear the area out before Trump did his campaign commercial in front of the church. They were lying, and their story keeps changing daily since. OS won't let it go - relying on redefining words to make some of the statements true.

How about don't gaslight us?

"No tear gas!" "No chemicals!" is beyond preposterous.

Tear gas & pepper spray/balls are distinctly different legally approved crowd control measures.
Tear gas is much more severe. You are perverting their description & fuzzing the difference to make them both seem the same.
THAT is the gaslighting that's taking place.

[Kismet]

By Salty's definition, cocaine and heroin would not be considered chemicals. Since they are derived from plants.

Nice to know that the feds are woke enough these days to only use organic, naturally occurring riot control agents on our citizens.

"Free of any artificial flavors or colorings! Just pure tasty chili pepper. After the riot, you can use it on your tacos!"

GMAFB

So are you advocating for dogs and fire hoses? What would you have them use?

How about obey the lawful orders of police and disperse when told to. Then nothing needs to be used.

The whole argument has been about whether or not the government is lying about what they did Monday to clear the area out before Trump did his campaign commercial in front of the church. They were lying, and their story keeps changing daily since. OS won't let it go - relying on redefining words to make some of the statements true.

How about don't gaslight us?

"No tear gas!" "No chemicals!" is beyond preposterous.

Tear gas & pepper spray/balls are distinctly different legally approved crowd control measures.
Tear gas is much more severe. You are perverting their description & fuzzing the difference to make them both seem the same.
THAT is the gaslighting that's taking place.

Barr said no CHEMICAL AGENTS were used. He did not specify tear gas but did mention pepper balls which contain a chemical irritant derived from peppers. His public citation, therefore, is incorrect on its face IMHO and is certainly within the realm of gaslighting of the kind the administration and DOPUS do on a daily basis.

[seacoaster]

I'm so thrilled to learn that the irritating ingredient in pepper balls/spray is NOT A CHEMICAL. If not a CHEMICAL What the heck is it?
Lastly,, if they are all on the up and up on all this - then why not go to Capitol Hill and answer some questions about it

Pepper spray/balls are made of (are you ready for this ?) ...PEPPER

Yep - and the main ingredient is Capsaicin which is a chemical compound that was first isolated from chili peppers in crystalline form in 1878.

So Mr. Barr's statement was incorrect at best and a LIE at worst.

The active ingredient in pepper spray is capsaicin, which is a chemical derived from the fruit of plants in the genus Capsicum, including chilis.
Extraction of oleoresin capsicum (OC) from peppers requires capsicum to be finely ground, from which capsaicin is then extracted using an organic solvent such as ethanol. The solvent is then evaporated, and the remaining waxlike resin is the oleoresin capsaicin.

It is all in the definition of chemical the two of you are using, and OS's version is much stricter including (from the context) only man-made chemicals.

But that is not a standard definition - capsaicin is a naturally occurring organic compound, more commonly the definition as a noun is:

a compound or substance that has been purified or prepared, especially artificially.

The process of preparing capsaicin if obtained from a pepper certainly meets the definition as an artificially prepared purification, so yes this most commonly would be considered a chemical. And since peppers are quite common, you would not bother to synthesize it in most circumstances.

OS is being disingenuous in his usage.

Blah, blah, blah. You are changing the definition of tear gas to suit the situation.

CS is a synthetic chemical compound -- C10H5ClN2. That's tear gas.
OC = pepper spray/balls. They're extracted from naturally growing plants = peppers.
Law enforcement distinguishes between pepper spray/balls & tear gas (much more severe) in describing what they use.
You, & the MSM, are disingenuously distorting the terminology to make things seem worse than they are.
USPP, USSS & Barr have said only pepper/spray balls (OC) were used on Mon, May 31, not tear gas (CS)
Even WUSA was honest in making the distinction when reporting on the canisters they found.

Does pepper spray happen in nature? Asking for a friend.

https://www.aftermath.com/content/tear- ... per-spray/

TEAR GAS VS. PEPPER SPRAY
The two biggest differences between tear gas spray and pepper spray are their chemical makeup and delivery methods. Pepper spray (sometimes referred to as “OC spray“) is a combination of natural chemicals, whereas tear gas (also called “CS gas“) comes from man-made compounds. Learn more about the different effects of each type of spray.

TEAR GAS SPRAY AND PEPPER SPRAY: COMPARE AND CONTRAST
Pepper spray and tear gas spray are both non-lethal irritants commonly used in self-defense and crowd control. While some people use the terms interchangeably, it is important to note that tear gas and pepper spray are not the same product, and each has its own unique chemical distinctions.

That's a "no." Got it. You are really working hard these days for your authoritarian heroes.

[Typical Lax Dad]

By Salty's definition, cocaine and heroin would not be considered chemicals. Since they are derived from plants.

Nice to know that the feds are woke enough these days to only use organic, naturally occurring riot control agents on our citizens.

"Free of any artificial flavors or colorings! Just pure tasty chili pepper. After the riot, you can use it on your tacos!"

GMAFB

So are you advocating for dogs and fire hoses? What would you have them use?

How about obey the lawful orders of police and disperse when told to. Then nothing needs to be used.

The whole argument has been about whether or not the government is lying about what they did Monday to clear the area out before Trump did his campaign commercial in front of the church. They were lying, and their story keeps changing daily since. OS won't let it go - relying on redefining words to make some of the statements true.

How about don't gaslight us?

"No tear gas!" "No chemicals!" is beyond preposterous.

Tear gas & pepper spray/balls are distinctly different legally approved crowd control measures.
Tear gas is much more severe. You are perverting their description & fuzzing the difference to make them both seem the same.
THAT is the gaslighting that's taking place.

Buckshot, Birdshot and Rocksalt. are different. “Tear gas” is to Pepper Spray as Buckshot is to Birdshot......Probably closer. Rocksalt is way down the spectrum from those two.

[old salt]

By Salty's definition, cocaine and heroin would not be considered chemicals. Since they are derived from plants.

Nice to know that the feds are woke enough these days to only use organic, naturally occurring riot control agents on our citizens.

"Free of any artificial flavors or colorings! Just pure tasty chili pepper. After the riot, you can use it on your tacos!"

GMAFB

So are you advocating for dogs and fire hoses? What would you have them use?

How about obey the lawful orders of police and disperse when told to. Then nothing needs to be used.

The whole argument has been about whether or not the government is lying about what they did Monday to clear the area out before Trump did his campaign commercial in front of the church. They were lying, and their story keeps changing daily since. OS won't let it go - relying on redefining words to make some of the statements true.

How about don't gaslight us?

"No tear gas!" "No chemicals!" is beyond preposterous.

Tear gas & pepper spray/balls are distinctly different legally approved crowd control measures.
Tear gas is much more severe. You are perverting their description & fuzzing the difference to make them both seem the same.
THAT is the gaslighting that's taking place.

Barr said no CHEMICAL AGENTS were used. He did not specify tear gas but did mention pepper balls which contain a chemical irritant derived from peppers. His public citation, therefore, is incorrect on its face IMHO and is certainly within the realm of gaslighting of the kind the administration and DOPUS do on a daily basis.

Barr is making the long established distinction between tear gas & pepper spray/balls.
That distinction was standard practice before the media & critics tried to conflate the two,
in an attempt to make the uninformed public think they are the same thing with equal severity.

[old salt]

By Salty's definition, cocaine and heroin would not be considered chemicals. Since they are derived from plants.

Nice to know that the feds are woke enough these days to only use organic, naturally occurring riot control agents on our citizens.

"Free of any artificial flavors or colorings! Just pure tasty chili pepper. After the riot, you can use it on your tacos!"

GMAFB

So are you advocating for dogs and fire hoses? What would you have them use?

How about obey the lawful orders of police and disperse when told to. Then nothing needs to be used.

The whole argument has been about whether or not the government is lying about what they did Monday to clear the area out before Trump did his campaign commercial in front of the church. They were lying, and their story keeps changing daily since. OS won't let it go - relying on redefining words to make some of the statements true.

How about don't gaslight us?

"No tear gas!" "No chemicals!" is beyond preposterous.

Tear gas & pepper spray/balls are distinctly different legally approved crowd control measures.
Tear gas is much more severe. You are perverting their description & fuzzing the difference to make them both seem the same.
THAT is the gaslighting that's taking place.

Buckshot, Birdshot and Rocksalt. are different. “Tear gas” is to Pepper Spray as Buckshot is to Birdshot......Probably closer. Rocksalt is way down the spectrum from those two.

They're all shotgun shells. You accurately convey the distinctions between them.
CS & OC are both legally authorized tearing agents. Tear gas vs pepper spray/balls accurately conveys a distinction between them.

[cradleandshoot]

“The term “tear gas” is applied to numerous substances, although the most common one currently in use internationally is what is called “CS gas.” CS is one of many so-called “nonlethal” chemical weapons referred to as “lachrymatory agents” (which comes from “lacrima,” the latin word for “tear.”) The category “lachrymatory agents” also includes chemicals commonly known as pepper spray (OC, PAVA) and mace (CN). Technically, tear gas and pepper spray are thought of as different substances. (For instance, most people probably think of tear gas as a gas and pepper spray as a liquid, however either chemical can come in various forms depending on how it is prepared.) However, they are both lachrymatory agents used by the state to stifle dissent and to terrorize prisoners, and they are often manufactured by the same companies (sometimes they are also combined in the same product.)”

I remember in basic training having to walk into that room filled with CS gas with our protective masks on. We then had to take them off and play twenty questions with our trainers. After 5 minutes we all left the room crying and puking and doubled over in horrific discomfort. I remember pouring water in my eyes from my canteen to no avail. It took a good hour or more for the effects to wear off. I doubt it has the same effect when your out in the open. If you are sweating and it gets into your pores it feels like your skin is on fire. I never knew diddly squat about the exact chemical make up of the stuff. I only know I don't want to experience it again.

[old salt]

By Salty's definition, cocaine and heroin would not be considered chemicals. Since they are derived from plants.

Nice to know that the feds are woke enough these days to only use organic, naturally occurring riot control agents on our citizens.

"Free of any artificial flavors or colorings! Just pure tasty chili pepper. After the riot, you can use it on your tacos!"

GMAFB

So are you advocating for dogs and fire hoses? What would you have them use?

How about obey the lawful orders of police and disperse when told to. Then nothing needs to be used.

The whole argument has been about whether or not the government is lying about what they did Monday to clear the area out before Trump did his campaign commercial in front of the church. They were lying, and their story keeps changing daily since. OS won't let it go - relying on redefining words to make some of the statements true.

How about don't gaslight us?

"No tear gas!" "No chemicals!" is beyond preposterous.

Tear gas & pepper spray/balls are distinctly different legally approved crowd control measures.
Tear gas is much more severe. You are perverting their description & fuzzing the difference to make them both seem the same.
THAT is the gaslighting that's taking place.

Buckshot, Birdshot and Rocksalt. are different. “Tear gas” is to Pepper Spray as Buckshot is to Birdshot......Probably closer. Rocksalt is way down the spectrum from those two.

They're all shotgun shells. You accurately convey the distinctions between them.
CS & OC are both legally authorized tearing agents. Tear gas vs pepper spray/balls accurately conveys a distinction between them.

When you go bird hunting with Dick Cheney, would you prefer he load birdshot or buckshot ?

[cradleandshoot]

By Salty's definition, cocaine and heroin would not be considered chemicals. Since they are derived from plants.

Nice to know that the feds are woke enough these days to only use organic, naturally occurring riot control agents on our citizens.

"Free of any artificial flavors or colorings! Just pure tasty chili pepper. After the riot, you can use it on your tacos!"

GMAFB

So are you advocating for dogs and fire hoses? What would you have them use?

How about obey the lawful orders of police and disperse when told to. Then nothing needs to be used.

The whole argument has been about whether or not the government is lying about what they did Monday to clear the area out before Trump did his campaign commercial in front of the church. They were lying, and their story keeps changing daily since. OS won't let it go - relying on redefining words to make some of the statements true.

How about don't gaslight us?

"No tear gas!" "No chemicals!" is beyond preposterous.

Tear gas & pepper spray/balls are distinctly different legally approved crowd control measures.
Tear gas is much more severe. You are perverting their description & fuzzing the difference to make them both seem the same.
THAT is the gaslighting that's taking place.

Buckshot, Birdshot and Rocksalt. are different. “Tear gas” is to Pepper Spray as Buckshot is to Birdshot......Probably closer. Rocksalt is way down the spectrum from those two.

They're all shotgun shells. You accurately convey the distinctions between them.
CS & OC are both legally authorized tearing agents. Tear gas vs pepper spray/balls accurately conveys a distinction between them.

When you go bird hunting with Dick Cheney, would you prefer he load birdshot or buckshot ?

I would prefer they give him blanks.

[RedFromMI]

This whole tear gas vs. pepper balls (combined with smoke which will enhance the delivery) is a distinction without a substantial difference. Pepper balls/spray in fact can last longer (effects) than CS, and when delivered there is little distinction because both are tearing agents.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/the-s ... per-spray/

The fact that anyone would try to downplay what was done because they did not specifically use CS is absolute BS.

And anyway the whole problem with what went down Monday was that innocent people who were legally demonstrating at a time before curfew were endangered unnecessarily in order for the president to have a photo op.

All the other "excuses" are just that - some sort of means of lessening the damage that occurred by the action of Trump/Barr/whoever else was responsible for this debacle. This is exactly the sort of thuggish behavior of this administration which seems to think that dominance is the only answer to conflict.

[Matnum PI]

Red, 100% agree. What I don't understand is, besides "this is my (political) team!", why would an american citizen ever support this behavior?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Red, 100% agree. What I don't understand is, besides "this is my (political) team!", why would an american citizen ever support this behavior?

Because he was duly elected and the people who vote for him knew he would do these things, otherwise they would not have voted for him.

[Typical Lax Dad]

“The term “tear gas” is applied to numerous substances, although the most common one currently in use internationally is what is called “CS gas.” CS is one of many so-called “nonlethal” chemical weapons referred to as “lachrymatory agents” (which comes from “lacrima,” the latin word for “tear.”) The category “lachrymatory agents” also includes chemicals commonly known as pepper spray (OC, PAVA) and mace (CN). Technically, tear gas and pepper spray are thought of as different substances. (For instance, most people probably think of tear gas as a gas and pepper spray as a liquid, however either chemical can come in various forms depending on how it is prepared.) However, they are both lachrymatory agents used by the state to stifle dissent and to terrorize prisoners, and they are often manufactured by the same companies (sometimes they are also combined in the same product.)”

I remember in basic training having to walk into that room filled with CS gas with our protective masks on. We then had to take them off and play twenty questions with our trainers. After 5 minutes we all left the room crying and puking and doubled over in horrific discomfort. I remember pouring water in my eyes from my canteen to no avail. It took a good hour or more for the effects to wear off. I doubt it has the same effect when your out in the open. If you are sweating and it gets into your pores it feels like your skin is on fire. I never knew diddly squat about the exact chemical make up of the stuff. I only know I don't want to experience it again.

My friends that had to go into the army talked about by the same things when they came home.

[Nigel]

Buckshot, Birdshot and Rocksalt. are different. “Tear gas” is to Pepper Spray as Buckshot is to Birdshot......Probably closer. Rocksalt is way down the spectrum from those two.



Ok, I'll play.

Redneck, Hillbilly and Bumpkin. Deplorable is to 10-15% 'not very good people' as Redneck is to Hillbilly.... probably closer. Bumpkin is pretty far down there, fairly close to Jethro.

[old salt]

I'm amazed that you can take in all this spin without getting disoriented. Time for you to throw your latest hero, Jeh Johnson under the bus.

Jeh's still my guy. He refused to take Andrea Mitchell's bait & said he wouldn't second guess the Secret Service for extending the WH perimeter fencing, since he no longer sees the latest threat stream intelligence.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Buckshot, Birdshot and Rocksalt. are different. “Tear gas” is to Pepper Spray as Buckshot is to Birdshot......Probably closer. Rocksalt is way down the spectrum from those two.



Ok, I'll play.

Redneck, Hillbilly and Bumpkin. Deplorable is to 10-15% 'not very good people' as Redneck is to Hillbilly.... probably closer. Bumpkin is pretty far down there, fairly close to Jethro.

You forgot Nigel

[old salt]

“The term “tear gas” is applied to numerous substances, although the most common one currently in use internationally is what is called “CS gas.” CS is one of many so-called “nonlethal” chemical weapons referred to as “lachrymatory agents” (which comes from “lacrima,” the latin word for “tear.”) The category “lachrymatory agents” also includes chemicals commonly known as pepper spray (OC, PAVA) and mace (CN). Technically, tear gas and pepper spray are thought of as different substances. (For instance, most people probably think of tear gas as a gas and pepper spray as a liquid, however either chemical can come in various forms depending on how it is prepared.) However, they are both lachrymatory agents used by the state to stifle dissent and to terrorize prisoners, and they are often manufactured by the same companies (sometimes they are also combined in the same product.)”

I remember in basic training having to walk into that room filled with CS gas with our protective masks on. We then had to take them off and play twenty questions with our trainers. After 5 minutes we all left the room crying and puking and doubled over in horrific discomfort. I remember pouring water in my eyes from my canteen to no avail. It took a good hour or more for the effects to wear off. I doubt it has the same effect when your out in the open. If you are sweating and it gets into your pores it feels like your skin is on fire. I never knew diddly squat about the exact chemical make up of the stuff. I only know I don't want to experience it again.

My friends that had to go into the army talked about by the same things when they came home.

This whole tear gas vs. pepper balls (combined with smoke which will enhance the delivery) is a distinction without a substantial difference. Pepper balls/spray in fact can last longer (effects) than CS, and when delivered there is little distinction because both are tearing agents.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/the-s ... per-spray/
The fact that anyone would try to downplay what was done because they did not specifically use CS is absolute BS.

US Army NBC Warfare, Officer course, Ft McClellan, AL, -- I had the pleasure of demasking in a chamber with first pepper spray (OC), then sunsequently tear gas (CS).
I encourage you to do the same before asserting that it's BS to make a distinction between the two.
I agree with these Dr's in your link :
Dr. Rohini Haar, an emergency physician, epidemiology lecturer and research fellow at the Human Rights Center at the University of California Berkeley’s School of Law, echoed Kearney’s comment that the pepper sprays aren’t as toxic as the CS/CN chemicals.

[Nigel]

Buckshot, Birdshot and Rocksalt. are different. “Tear gas” is to Pepper Spray as Buckshot is to Birdshot......Probably closer. Rocksalt is way down the spectrum from those two.



Ok, I'll play.

Redneck, Hillbilly and Bumpkin. Deplorable is to 10-15% 'not very good people' as Redneck is to Hillbilly.... probably closer. Bumpkin is pretty far down there, fairly close to Jethro.

You forgot Nigel

Graduates of Christianity to Islam. MashAllah.

[Matnum PI]

Because he was duly elected and the people who vote for him knew he would do these things, otherwise they would not have voted for him.

I guess that's it. Like hiring a new CEO and then standing by what he does, no matter what. Not how I operate in the world but I can understand how others would. Similar to the "this is my (political) team!"