Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[Peter Brown]

ou can’t let a few bad apples spoil the entire bunch, however. You can’t let a few knuckleheads keep the large majority from exercising their First Amendment rights.

This is the part that I can't stand when it comes to the focus on rioting.

America understands the idea of having a few bad apples at police departments making the 99% of good cops look bad. They get that, without any difficulty whatsoever.

But when the same thing happens with peaceful demonstrations? A few "bad apples" acting like total wankers, ruining the peaceful protest?

Suddenly they turn their understanding off. I don't get it.

No one is claiming their fellow posters don't care that George Floyd was murdered, or that their fellow posters don't condemn the policeman who murdered him.

And yet claims that their fellow posters don't care about rioting or looting are thrown around here with abandon.

Pretty disappointing....

It is a mechanism for changing the subject. Then the conversation is steered toward something it was not originally - what to do about those few bad police apples. Instead it becomes about how bad the people who are protesting really are, so they can be dismissed and the original problem is still there but now ignored.

The whole point of the protesting is to make the power structures in the country understand that it needs to pay attention and make positive changes.

So in that context - everything Trump has said about the killing is that everyone needs to do better. Nothing more - no plans on how to make that happen. And then the change in subject.

An utter LACK of leadership - which is one of the most consistent characteristics of the current president.

It's a mechanism for focusing on the actual damages done & the ulterior motives of those encouraging & rationalizing the destructive, deadly rioting & looting.

You are assuming ulterior motives not necessarily even evident, and I am assuming a small number of criminals taking advantage of a situation they have no real part of, but can infiltrate. That is both for looters who come from the 'hood and the white nationalists converging on the scene to make further trouble. And again - how does focusing on the "looters" as if they are representative of the protesters fix the problem rather than exacerbate it?

Law enforcement is not really helping itself if it makes itself enemies of more people than before. There are a lot of the "protesters" who are not African American who understand that the problem needs to be fixed. And that the backwards steps taken by the current administration to take sides with the most strict elements of the police has actually made the problem worse.

So the organized anarchists & organized criminal gangs that John Miller described in NYC are white supremacists ?
Look closer at the video clips of looters carrying stuff out of stores & point out the white supremacist group members for us.

I just described the groups involved.

So far, the only ones arrested for inciting violence have been boogaloo boys. White supremacists.

But it would appear that there are left wing nut job anarchists as well..and certainly some street gangs being opportunistic in the looting.

And some, yes, mad as hell, not going to take it any more, outraged folks who lose control.

But most of the protestors are none of the above. A vast majority are not.

And where they've been met with respect and empathy from the power structure, they've been allies in preventing violence and destruction and looting too.

That's the path forward.

So what. NV indictments on 3 Boogaloo bois. You think they're the only organized rioters ?

L & R wing nuts, anarchists & criminal gangs -- they're all taking advantage of the disruption created by the protesters.

That's why strictly enforced curfews work, just like lockdowns blunted the covid spread. It's not THAT complicated.

You want to make this a L-R thing. They're ALL criminals.

Salt: you fall into the age old trap where Democrats try to convince you that your eyes are lying. Your eyes are not lying, none of our eyes are lying. 99% of the looting, burning, and defacing is being done at the behest of the far left. This is what they want, the destruction of what is America. If you choose to debate whether 3 boogaloos are who is doing the damage (had you ever heard of that group prior to 3 being caught?), you lose the argument before you start.

Anyone with one functional eye and half of one brain synapse still firing knows exactly who and what is doing the damage. And you know that by looking at which politicians are defending them, and who is bailing them out of jail. Follow the money all the time.

[MDlaxfan76]

ou can’t let a few bad apples spoil the entire bunch, however. You can’t let a few knuckleheads keep the large majority from exercising their First Amendment rights.

This is the part that I can't stand when it comes to the focus on rioting.

America understands the idea of having a few bad apples at police departments making the 99% of good cops look bad. They get that, without any difficulty whatsoever.

But when the same thing happens with peaceful demonstrations? A few "bad apples" acting like total wankers, ruining the peaceful protest?

Suddenly they turn their understanding off. I don't get it.

No one is claiming their fellow posters don't care that George Floyd was murdered, or that their fellow posters don't condemn the policeman who murdered him.

And yet claims that their fellow posters don't care about rioting or looting are thrown around here with abandon.

Pretty disappointing....

It is a mechanism for changing the subject. Then the conversation is steered toward something it was not originally - what to do about those few bad police apples. Instead it becomes about how bad the people who are protesting really are, so they can be dismissed and the original problem is still there but now ignored.

The whole point of the protesting is to make the power structures in the country understand that it needs to pay attention and make positive changes.

So in that context - everything Trump has said about the killing is that everyone needs to do better. Nothing more - no plans on how to make that happen. And then the change in subject.

An utter LACK of leadership - which is one of the most consistent characteristics of the current president.

It's a mechanism for focusing on the actual damages done & the ulterior motives of those encouraging & rationalizing the destructive, deadly rioting & looting.

You are assuming ulterior motives not necessarily even evident, and I am assuming a small number of criminals taking advantage of a situation they have no real part of, but can infiltrate. That is both for looters who come from the 'hood and the white nationalists converging on the scene to make further trouble. And again - how does focusing on the "looters" as if they are representative of the protesters fix the problem rather than exacerbate it?

Law enforcement is not really helping itself if it makes itself enemies of more people than before. There are a lot of the "protesters" who are not African American who understand that the problem needs to be fixed. And that the backwards steps taken by the current administration to take sides with the most strict elements of the police has actually made the problem worse.

So the organized anarchists & organized criminal gangs that John Miller described in NYC are white supremacists ?
Look closer at the video clips of looters carrying stuff out of stores & point out the white supremacist group members for us.

I just described the groups involved.

So far, the only ones arrested for inciting violence have been boogaloo boys. White supremacists.

But it would appear that there are left wing nut job anarchists as well..and certainly some street gangs being opportunistic in the looting.

And some, yes, mad as hell, not going to take it any more, outraged folks who lose control.

But most of the protestors are none of the above. A vast majority are not.

And where they've been met with respect and empathy from the power structure, they've been allies in preventing violence and destruction and looting too.

That's the path forward.

So what. NV indictments on 3 Boogaloo bois. You think they're the only organized rioters ?

L & R wing nuts, anarchists & criminal gangs -- they're all taking advantage of the disruption created by the protesters.

That's why strictly enforced curfews work, just like lockdowns blunted the covid spread. It's not THAT complicated.

You want to make this a L-R thing. They're ALL criminals.

Come on Salty, I made clear that I think there's all sorts of bad folks and whack jobs involved.
It's just that this isn't an ideological left thing. (see PB's rant above)

Indeed, it does matter that some are out there claiming to care about 'social justice' when in reality they're white supremacists...after all, Trump wants to designate Antifa a terror org.

Antifa's not really a problem on the left, just as Black Lives Matter wasn't a terrorist org (remember when they were being that?).

But the left wing anarchists are and the white supremacists are...neither of these groups are legitimately part of the protests.

Now, why does recognizing this matter?
Because law enforcement needs the help of the legitimate protestors to be involved in weeding out the bad actors. Where the powers that be have taken that tack, we're seeing that happen.

[old salt]

So far, the folks who have been arrested, whether FBI or local, for actual organized efforts to incite violence have all been boogaloo boys.

My guess is that there's some left wing anarchists involved as well as these right wing nut jobs.

That's a sweeping assertion. Proof ? Links ? The Boogaloo bois weren't mentioned in that John Millier report I linked above.

Who cares if they're L or R wing ? They're hiding among the protesters & need to be stopped.

Yes. Which means that the task for law enforcement changes. You cannot have police telling Proud Boys on the side to get out of the way because tear gas is coming or mindlessly clearing out areas and making mass arrests. You are spending your resources on the wrong thing then.

Better to acknowledge the protesters and their grievances and be an observant part of the protest looking for the criminal element - or focusing the emphasis on guiding the protests to places like parks or other open areas where they can gather and away from stores and other areas of concern for looting.

There's plenty of daylight hours for peaceful protests in designated areas before curfew that the police can secure.

Mayors are not willing to impose those restrictions. The chaos serves their political agenda. Standing up to the looters & rioters does not.
When encouraged to control the crowds, they claim they're all peaceful protesters & blame a few bad apples from out of town.

Why are this wk ends demonstrations in DC not in RFK stadium parking lots, rather than in BLM Plaza, aimed like a dagger at the WH ?

[old salt]

ou can’t let a few bad apples spoil the entire bunch, however. You can’t let a few knuckleheads keep the large majority from exercising their First Amendment rights.

This is the part that I can't stand when it comes to the focus on rioting.

America understands the idea of having a few bad apples at police departments making the 99% of good cops look bad. They get that, without any difficulty whatsoever.

But when the same thing happens with peaceful demonstrations? A few "bad apples" acting like total wankers, ruining the peaceful protest?

Suddenly they turn their understanding off. I don't get it.

No one is claiming their fellow posters don't care that George Floyd was murdered, or that their fellow posters don't condemn the policeman who murdered him.

And yet claims that their fellow posters don't care about rioting or looting are thrown around here with abandon.

Pretty disappointing....

It is a mechanism for changing the subject. Then the conversation is steered toward something it was not originally - what to do about those few bad police apples. Instead it becomes about how bad the people who are protesting really are, so they can be dismissed and the original problem is still there but now ignored.

The whole point of the protesting is to make the power structures in the country understand that it needs to pay attention and make positive changes.

So in that context - everything Trump has said about the killing is that everyone needs to do better. Nothing more - no plans on how to make that happen. And then the change in subject.

An utter LACK of leadership - which is one of the most consistent characteristics of the current president.

It's a mechanism for focusing on the actual damages done & the ulterior motives of those encouraging & rationalizing the destructive, deadly rioting & looting.

You are assuming ulterior motives not necessarily even evident, and I am assuming a small number of criminals taking advantage of a situation they have no real part of, but can infiltrate. That is both for looters who come from the 'hood and the white nationalists converging on the scene to make further trouble. And again - how does focusing on the "looters" as if they are representative of the protesters fix the problem rather than exacerbate it?

Law enforcement is not really helping itself if it makes itself enemies of more people than before. There are a lot of the "protesters" who are not African American who understand that the problem needs to be fixed. And that the backwards steps taken by the current administration to take sides with the most strict elements of the police has actually made the problem worse.

So the organized anarchists & organized criminal gangs that John Miller described in NYC are white supremacists ?
Look closer at the video clips of looters carrying stuff out of stores & point out the white supremacist group members for us.

I just described the groups involved.

So far, the only ones arrested for inciting violence have been boogaloo boys. White supremacists.

But it would appear that there are left wing nut job anarchists as well..and certainly some street gangs being opportunistic in the looting.

And some, yes, mad as hell, not going to take it any more, outraged folks who lose control.

But most of the protestors are none of the above. A vast majority are not.

And where they've been met with respect and empathy from the power structure, they've been allies in preventing violence and destruction and looting too.

That's the path forward.

So what. NV indictments on 3 Boogaloo bois. You think they're the only organized rioters ?

L & R wing nuts, anarchists & criminal gangs -- they're all taking advantage of the disruption created by the protesters.

That's why strictly enforced curfews work, just like lockdowns blunted the covid spread. It's not THAT complicated.

You want to make this a L-R thing. They're ALL criminals.

Come on Salty, I made clear that I think there's all sorts of bad folks and whack jobs involved.
It's just that this isn't an ideological left thing. (see PB's rant above)

Indeed, it does matter that some are out there claiming to care about 'social justice' when in reality they're white supremacists...after all, Trump wants to designate Antifa a terror org.

Antifa's not really a problem on the left, just as Black Lives Matter wasn't a terrorist org (remember when they were being that?).

But the left wing anarchists are and the white supremacists are...neither of these groups are legitimately part of the protests.

Now, why does recognizing this matter?
Because law enforcement needs the help of the legitimate protestors to be involved in weeding out the bad actors. Where the powers that be have taken that tack, we're seeing that happen.

You're the one who continues to make it a L-R issue.

[MDlaxfan76]

So far, the folks who have been arrested, whether FBI or local, for actual organized efforts to incite violence have all been boogaloo boys.

My guess is that there's some left wing anarchists involved as well as these right wing nut jobs.

That's a sweeping assertion. Proof ? Links ? The Boogaloo bois weren't mentioned in that John Millier report I linked above.

Who cares if they're L or R wing ? They're hiding among the protesters & need to be stopped.

Yes. Which means that the task for law enforcement changes. You cannot have police telling Proud Boys on the side to get out of the way because tear gas is coming or mindlessly clearing out areas and making mass arrests. You are spending your resources on the wrong thing then.

Better to acknowledge the protesters and their grievances and be an observant part of the protest looking for the criminal element - or focusing the emphasis on guiding the protests to places like parks or other open areas where they can gather and away from stores and other areas of concern for looting.

There's plenty of daylight hours for peaceful protests in designated areas before curfew that the police can secure.

Mayors are not willing to impose those restrictions. The chaos serves their political agenda. Standing up to the looters & rioters does not.
When encouraged to control the crowds, they claim they're all peaceful protesters & blame a few bad apples from out of town.

Why are this wk ends demonstrations in DC not in RFK stadium parking lots, rather than in BLM Plaza, aimed like a dagger at the WH ?

Because the protestors have a legal right to be there.

Because the rot starts at the head.

[MDlaxfan76]

ou can’t let a few bad apples spoil the entire bunch, however. You can’t let a few knuckleheads keep the large majority from exercising their First Amendment rights.

This is the part that I can't stand when it comes to the focus on rioting.

America understands the idea of having a few bad apples at police departments making the 99% of good cops look bad. They get that, without any difficulty whatsoever.

But when the same thing happens with peaceful demonstrations? A few "bad apples" acting like total wankers, ruining the peaceful protest?

Suddenly they turn their understanding off. I don't get it.

No one is claiming their fellow posters don't care that George Floyd was murdered, or that their fellow posters don't condemn the policeman who murdered him.

And yet claims that their fellow posters don't care about rioting or looting are thrown around here with abandon.

Pretty disappointing....

It is a mechanism for changing the subject. Then the conversation is steered toward something it was not originally - what to do about those few bad police apples. Instead it becomes about how bad the people who are protesting really are, so they can be dismissed and the original problem is still there but now ignored.

The whole point of the protesting is to make the power structures in the country understand that it needs to pay attention and make positive changes.

So in that context - everything Trump has said about the killing is that everyone needs to do better. Nothing more - no plans on how to make that happen. And then the change in subject.

An utter LACK of leadership - which is one of the most consistent characteristics of the current president.

It's a mechanism for focusing on the actual damages done & the ulterior motives of those encouraging & rationalizing the destructive, deadly rioting & looting.

You are assuming ulterior motives not necessarily even evident, and I am assuming a small number of criminals taking advantage of a situation they have no real part of, but can infiltrate. That is both for looters who come from the 'hood and the white nationalists converging on the scene to make further trouble. And again - how does focusing on the "looters" as if they are representative of the protesters fix the problem rather than exacerbate it?

Law enforcement is not really helping itself if it makes itself enemies of more people than before. There are a lot of the "protesters" who are not African American who understand that the problem needs to be fixed. And that the backwards steps taken by the current administration to take sides with the most strict elements of the police has actually made the problem worse.

So the organized anarchists & organized criminal gangs that John Miller described in NYC are white supremacists ?
Look closer at the video clips of looters carrying stuff out of stores & point out the white supremacist group members for us.

I just described the groups involved.

So far, the only ones arrested for inciting violence have been boogaloo boys. White supremacists.

But it would appear that there are left wing nut job anarchists as well..and certainly some street gangs being opportunistic in the looting.

And some, yes, mad as hell, not going to take it any more, outraged folks who lose control.

But most of the protestors are none of the above. A vast majority are not.

And where they've been met with respect and empathy from the power structure, they've been allies in preventing violence and destruction and looting too.

That's the path forward.

So what. NV indictments on 3 Boogaloo bois. You think they're the only organized rioters ?

L & R wing nuts, anarchists & criminal gangs -- they're all taking advantage of the disruption created by the protesters.

That's why strictly enforced curfews work, just like lockdowns blunted the covid spread. It's not THAT complicated.

You want to make this a L-R thing. They're ALL criminals.

Come on Salty, I made clear that I think there's all sorts of bad folks and whack jobs involved.
It's just that this isn't an ideological left thing. (see PB's rant above)

Indeed, it does matter that some are out there claiming to care about 'social justice' when in reality they're white supremacists...after all, Trump wants to designate Antifa a terror org.

Antifa's not really a problem on the left, just as Black Lives Matter wasn't a terrorist org (remember when they were being that?).

But the left wing anarchists are and the white supremacists are...neither of these groups are legitimately part of the protests.

Now, why does recognizing this matter?
Because law enforcement needs the help of the legitimate protestors to be involved in weeding out the bad actors. Where the powers that be have taken that tack, we're seeing that happen.

You're the one who continues to make it a L-R issue.

no, see PB's rant above. And Trump has tried to make it so.

I quite agree that there are extremists, whack jobs, from both ends of the political spectrum. All of those are serious problems.

But that's why you need the legit protestors to help weed them out...you're not going to do it with force, bullying the legit protestors, given that's exactly what the protests are about.

And to get the legit protestors to help, you need them to actually believe you are listening and have empathy for their cause. That's hard work, but it's the only hope of getting to the other side.

I think the DC Mayor's move was rather brilliant...but she, unfortunately, doesn't control all the forces deployed in DC, so she's dealing with whatever blow back the federal/Trumpist response generates. This action may help her police force out a ton, by placing DC law on the side of the cause for justice. As they should be!

[a fan]

a fan has an idea: if we somehow a law to invalidate unions for police, police ranks will become better and thus looting will end.

Nope. Don't need a law to do that.

But I think your path is better: complain about looting, and do nothing to fix the underlying problems.

meanwhile, Democratic cities burn and are looted. Who is it again that these issues fall upon? Confused.

Obviously the smart thing to do here is blame the Dems, ignore problems in America, and move on.

[Peter Brown]

a fan has an idea: if we somehow a law to invalidate unions for police, police ranks will become better and thus looting will end.

Nope. Don't need a law to do that.

But I think your path is better: complain about looting, and do nothing to fix the underlying problems.

meanwhile, Democratic cities burn and are looted. Who is it again that these issues fall upon? Confused.

Obviously the smart thing to do here is blame the Dems, ignore problems in America, and move on.

How about, and hear me out because this might sound revolutionary, JUST STOP THE LOOTING?

[MDlaxfan76]

a fan has an idea: if we somehow a law to invalidate unions for police, police ranks will become better and thus looting will end.

Nope. Don't need a law to do that.

But I think your path is better: complain about looting, and do nothing to fix the underlying problems.

meanwhile, Democratic cities burn and are looted. Who is it again that these issues fall upon? Confused.

Obviously the smart thing to do here is blame the Dems, ignore problems in America, and move on.

How about, and hear me out because this might sound revolutionary, JUST STOP THE LOOTING?

Was there looting in the weeks before these brutal events were caught on film?

Come on, PB, we all want the looting to stop..except for some opportunists, and the various extremist whack jobs, left and right, who just want anarchy and/or a race war.

But you don't want riots?
Fix the underlying problem.

[old salt]

ou can’t let a few bad apples spoil the entire bunch, however. You can’t let a few knuckleheads keep the large majority from exercising their First Amendment rights.

This is the part that I can't stand when it comes to the focus on rioting.

America understands the idea of having a few bad apples at police departments making the 99% of good cops look bad. They get that, without any difficulty whatsoever.

But when the same thing happens with peaceful demonstrations? A few "bad apples" acting like total wankers, ruining the peaceful protest?

Suddenly they turn their understanding off. I don't get it.

No one is claiming their fellow posters don't care that George Floyd was murdered, or that their fellow posters don't condemn the policeman who murdered him.

And yet claims that their fellow posters don't care about rioting or looting are thrown around here with abandon.

Pretty disappointing....

It is a mechanism for changing the subject. Then the conversation is steered toward something it was not originally - what to do about those few bad police apples. Instead it becomes about how bad the people who are protesting really are, so they can be dismissed and the original problem is still there but now ignored.

The whole point of the protesting is to make the power structures in the country understand that it needs to pay attention and make positive changes.

So in that context - everything Trump has said about the killing is that everyone needs to do better. Nothing more - no plans on how to make that happen. And then the change in subject.

An utter LACK of leadership - which is one of the most consistent characteristics of the current president.

It's a mechanism for focusing on the actual damages done & the ulterior motives of those encouraging & rationalizing the destructive, deadly rioting & looting.

You are assuming ulterior motives not necessarily even evident, and I am assuming a small number of criminals taking advantage of a situation they have no real part of, but can infiltrate. That is both for looters who come from the 'hood and the white nationalists converging on the scene to make further trouble. And again - how does focusing on the "looters" as if they are representative of the protesters fix the problem rather than exacerbate it?

Law enforcement is not really helping itself if it makes itself enemies of more people than before. There are a lot of the "protesters" who are not African American who understand that the problem needs to be fixed. And that the backwards steps taken by the current administration to take sides with the most strict elements of the police has actually made the problem worse.

So the organized anarchists & organized criminal gangs that John Miller described in NYC are white supremacists ?
Look closer at the video clips of looters carrying stuff out of stores & point out the white supremacist group members for us.

I just described the groups involved.

So far, the only ones arrested for inciting violence have been boogaloo boys. White supremacists.

But it would appear that there are left wing nut job anarchists as well..and certainly some street gangs being opportunistic in the looting.

And some, yes, mad as hell, not going to take it any more, outraged folks who lose control.

But most of the protestors are none of the above. A vast majority are not.

And where they've been met with respect and empathy from the power structure, they've been allies in preventing violence and destruction and looting too.

That's the path forward.

So what. NV indictments on 3 Boogaloo bois. You think they're the only organized rioters ?

L & R wing nuts, anarchists & criminal gangs -- they're all taking advantage of the disruption created by the protesters.

That's why strictly enforced curfews work, just like lockdowns blunted the covid spread. It's not THAT complicated.

You want to make this a L-R thing. They're ALL criminals.

Salt: you fall into the age old trap where Democrats try to convince you that your eyes are lying. Your eyes are not lying, none of our eyes are lying. 99% of the looting, burning, and defacing is being done at the behest of the far left. This is what they want, the destruction of what is America. If you choose to debate whether 3 boogaloos are who is doing the damage (had you ever heard of that group prior to 3 being caught?), you lose the argument before you start.

Anyone with one functional eye and half of one brain synapse still firing knows exactly who and what is doing the damage. And you know that by looking at which politicians are defending them, and who is bailing them out of jail. Follow the money all the time.

In LA, those surfer dudes struggling to haul away looted surf boards on their motorcycles must have been Boogaloo bois.

[a fan]

Mayors are not willing to impose those restrictions. The chaos serves their political agenda. Standing up to the looters & rioters does not.

You think that having chaos in a city helps an incumbent Mayor? The ENTIRE POINT to the demonstrations is that the demonstrators are furious at the existing power structure in these cities, OS. Who do you think they're mad at? Putin?

Don't quit your day job and become a political consultant, OS.

"Vote for me, I was the guy who was in office when citizens were being murdered, and the city was on fire!"

[a fan]

a fan has an idea: if we somehow a law to invalidate unions for police, police ranks will become better and thus looting will end.

Nope. Don't need a law to do that.

But I think your path is better: complain about looting, and do nothing to fix the underlying problems.

meanwhile, Democratic cities burn and are looted. Who is it again that these issues fall upon? Confused.

Obviously the smart thing to do here is blame the Dems, ignore problems in America, and move on.

How about, and hear me out because this might sound revolutionary, JUST STOP THE LOOTING?

Go tell the looters, Pete. Obviously you have this all figured out.

[MDlaxfan76]

ou can’t let a few bad apples spoil the entire bunch, however. You can’t let a few knuckleheads keep the large majority from exercising their First Amendment rights.

This is the part that I can't stand when it comes to the focus on rioting.

America understands the idea of having a few bad apples at police departments making the 99% of good cops look bad. They get that, without any difficulty whatsoever.

But when the same thing happens with peaceful demonstrations? A few "bad apples" acting like total wankers, ruining the peaceful protest?

Suddenly they turn their understanding off. I don't get it.

No one is claiming their fellow posters don't care that George Floyd was murdered, or that their fellow posters don't condemn the policeman who murdered him.

And yet claims that their fellow posters don't care about rioting or looting are thrown around here with abandon.

Pretty disappointing....

It is a mechanism for changing the subject. Then the conversation is steered toward something it was not originally - what to do about those few bad police apples. Instead it becomes about how bad the people who are protesting really are, so they can be dismissed and the original problem is still there but now ignored.

The whole point of the protesting is to make the power structures in the country understand that it needs to pay attention and make positive changes.

So in that context - everything Trump has said about the killing is that everyone needs to do better. Nothing more - no plans on how to make that happen. And then the change in subject.

An utter LACK of leadership - which is one of the most consistent characteristics of the current president.

It's a mechanism for focusing on the actual damages done & the ulterior motives of those encouraging & rationalizing the destructive, deadly rioting & looting.

You are assuming ulterior motives not necessarily even evident, and I am assuming a small number of criminals taking advantage of a situation they have no real part of, but can infiltrate. That is both for looters who come from the 'hood and the white nationalists converging on the scene to make further trouble. And again - how does focusing on the "looters" as if they are representative of the protesters fix the problem rather than exacerbate it?

Law enforcement is not really helping itself if it makes itself enemies of more people than before. There are a lot of the "protesters" who are not African American who understand that the problem needs to be fixed. And that the backwards steps taken by the current administration to take sides with the most strict elements of the police has actually made the problem worse.

So the organized anarchists & organized criminal gangs that John Miller described in NYC are white supremacists ?
Look closer at the video clips of looters carrying stuff out of stores & point out the white supremacist group members for us.

I just described the groups involved.

So far, the only ones arrested for inciting violence have been boogaloo boys. White supremacists.

But it would appear that there are left wing nut job anarchists as well..and certainly some street gangs being opportunistic in the looting.

And some, yes, mad as hell, not going to take it any more, outraged folks who lose control.

But most of the protestors are none of the above. A vast majority are not.

And where they've been met with respect and empathy from the power structure, they've been allies in preventing violence and destruction and looting too.

That's the path forward.

So what. NV indictments on 3 Boogaloo bois. You think they're the only organized rioters ?

L & R wing nuts, anarchists & criminal gangs -- they're all taking advantage of the disruption created by the protesters.

That's why strictly enforced curfews work, just like lockdowns blunted the covid spread. It's not THAT complicated.

You want to make this a L-R thing. They're ALL criminals.

Salt: you fall into the age old trap where Democrats try to convince you that your eyes are lying. Your eyes are not lying, none of our eyes are lying. 99% of the looting, burning, and defacing is being done at the behest of the far left. This is what they want, the destruction of what is America. If you choose to debate whether 3 boogaloos are who is doing the damage (had you ever heard of that group prior to 3 being caught?), you lose the argument before you start.

Anyone with one functional eye and half of one brain synapse still firing knows exactly who and what is doing the damage. And you know that by looking at which politicians are defending them, and who is bailing them out of jail. Follow the money all the time.

In LA, those surfer dudes struggling to haul away looted surf boards on their motorcycles must have been Boogaloo bois.

haven't heard about that one, but, sure, there are a-holes and opportunists everywhere.

But why do you keep ignoring me when we agree on something?... there all sorts of bad actors out there, variety of stripes, they all need to be stopped, and appropriately punished.

But there's the whole right wing thing going on making it seem like the bad actors are 'Liberals' or "Democrats", somehow allied with the legit protestors ...when the one group arrested so far were right wing white supremacists...boogaloo boys.

[Peter Brown]

a fan has an idea: if we somehow a law to invalidate unions for police, police ranks will become better and thus looting will end.

Nope. Don't need a law to do that.

But I think your path is better: complain about looting, and do nothing to fix the underlying problems.

meanwhile, Democratic cities burn and are looted. Who is it again that these issues fall upon? Confused.

Obviously the smart thing to do here is blame the Dems, ignore problems in America, and move on.

How about, and hear me out because this might sound revolutionary, JUST STOP THE LOOTING?

Go tell the looters, Pete. Obviously you have this all figured out.

I and anyone could stop the looting in five seconds. Your proposal is like a two decade long sales job, and a necessary sales job, but some folks will starve in 24 years, a fan. You see, I am sympathetic to folks who opened restaurants, employees who worked there, entrepreneurs who launched nail salons, heck I'm even sympathetic to large national retail chains like Gucci and Louis Vuitton to see their hard work incinerated in the flash of an eye because mayors like De Blasio in NYC and Frey in Minneapolis don't have the cojones to stand up for actual working people and the middle class in their Democratic Party manic quest to be woke.

In some ways I don't really care if NYC fails; when you elect turkeys like de Blasio, you get what you voted for. In other ways I do care, because when NYC fails, we all feel the thud.

What I don't do is pretend why it fails...you know why it is failing as we speak. No retail as of Monday. And the newest best game in town is now Antifa and the far left are browbeating city residents who clean up graffiti that says Black Lives Matter. If you have the audacity to clean up the paint, Antifa and the far left are going around video'ing those people and posting on line with the address of the building so more graffiti boys can come back that night and do it all over again.

[old salt]

You're the one who continues to make it a L-R issue.

no, see PB's rant above. And Trump has tried to make it so.

I quite agree that there are extremists, whack jobs, from both ends of the political spectrum. All of those are serious problems.

But that's why you need the legit protestors to help weed them out...you're not going to do it with force, bullying the legit protestors, given that's exactly what the protests are about.

And to get the legit protestors to help, you need them to actually believe you are listening and have empathy for their cause. That's hard work, but it's the only hope of getting to the other side.

I think the DC Mayor's move was rather brilliant...but she, unfortunately, doesn't control all the forces deployed in DC, so she's dealing with whatever blow back the federal/Trumpist response generates. This action may help her police force out a ton, by placing DC law on the side of the cause for justice. As they should be!

Examine your posts. You were replying to me, not PB.

The legit protesters aren't getting it done in the cities where the rioting & looting persist.
The Detroit Chief of Police is attributing the relative calm there to local protesters identifying the out of town agitators to his PD.

The MN Gov is attributing the calm there to bringing in the NG.
As John Miller pointed out, NYPD is working the intel, but they still have a big challenge, even with a curfew.

The major damage in DC was done last wk end. Since then -- a curfew was imposed, Trump cracked down on Mon, the WH perimeter was extended to include Laf Sq/Pk, Fed/NG presence was increased around the Mall, Fed buildings & monuments, & then the weather, since the curfew was lifted. We're about to find out in DC how much of the last 2 nights relative calm was due to thunderstorms.

[youthathletics]

What are you doing to make a difference?

Any ideas?

You are supposedly a Christian. Figure it out.

That is is low blow....why so angry?

And b/c I am a Christian and try to articulate why being a God fearing man solves many of these earthly issues, I can not make others behave or believe a particular way....

....much like me asking, to collaborate, and discuss something that moves the discussion and progress forward.

[a fan]

I and anyone could stop the looting in five seconds. Your proposal is like a two decade long sales job, and a necessary sales job, but some folks will starve in 24 years, a fan. You see, I am sympathetic to folks who opened restaurants, employees who worked there, entrepreneurs who launched nail salons, heck I'm even sympathetic to large national retail chains like Gucci and Louis Vuitton to see their hard work incinerated in the flash of an eye because mayors like De Blasio in NYC and Frey in Minneapolis don't have the cojones to stand up for actual working people and the middle class in their Democratic Party manic quest to be woke.

I think it's safe to say that we have received your message that the Dems are evil, Pete.

At some point----at some point----you're going to discuss the underlying issue, right?

We're on page 55, Pete. You've claimed that Civil Rights is your #1 issue. I'm patiently waiting for you to discuss WHY people are demonstrating.

You didn't tell us that property was your #1 issue. You said it was Civil Rights.

Are you going to tell us at some point how furious you are at the loss of Civil Rights here that has led to this mess?

[Peter Brown]

I and anyone could stop the looting in five seconds. Your proposal is like a two decade long sales job, and a necessary sales job, but some folks will starve in 24 years, a fan. You see, I am sympathetic to folks who opened restaurants, employees who worked there, entrepreneurs who launched nail salons, heck I'm even sympathetic to large national retail chains like Gucci and Louis Vuitton to see their hard work incinerated in the flash of an eye because mayors like De Blasio in NYC and Frey in Minneapolis don't have the cojones to stand up for actual working people and the middle class in their Democratic Party manic quest to be woke.

I think it's safe to say that we have received your message that the Dems are evil, Pete.

At some point----at some point----you're going to discuss the underlying issue, right?

We're on page 55, Pete. You've claimed that Civil Rights is your #1 issue. I'm patiently waiting for you to discuss WHY people are demonstrating.

You didn't tell us that property was your #1 issue. You said it was Civil Rights.

Are you going to tell us at some point how furious you are at the loss of Civil Rights here that has led to this mess?

For 47 years, except maybe the first 18 when I was a youth, I have told anyone who wants to listen (and few do) that absolute power corrupts absolutely. Most people are quite content to let their leaders do all the thinking for them; I would fall ridiculously to the other side (I don't want anyone making any decision for me at all).

Here's a snafu: your cities are being turned into Thunderdomes because you have politicians too timid to stand up for the common man, the middle class guy and girl who need their job. Most but not all are Democrats. Why them? because their party is leaning very far left; Biden will be the last of the Mohicans so far as normalcy goes, and if he loses, katy bar the door because your next Democratic POTUS candidate will be off the charts left. I sat in some very rarified air with those guys a dozen years back; I know the money guys in that party, they are not good people, they are not what I call Americans. And they drive that train.

You have two issues, one is immediate, and one is long term. The immediate one is you need to gain control over the cities. Seattle was on fire last night and I bet not one person here knows about it. The 'protesters' tried to storm the Justice Center which had 400 people trapped inside.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/ ... 85a3fcbd48

What is that mayor's solution? To ban tear gas.

You will lose these cities. They will be abandoned by commerce because insurance will refuse to roll over policies as they come up for renewal. Get control. Send in the military; these mayors are casting their lot with the anarchists.

The long term issue is ironically easier, imo:

1. STOP SENDING PEOPLE TO PRISON FOR FIRST TIME NON-VIOLENT CRIME (please bear in mind that 'jail' is not 'prison'; jail can be used for anything less than 10 days and will involve tons of non-violent crime).

2. Anyone today in prison for selling weed of any nature to be released and have records expunged.

3. Stop cash bail for any charge that is not violent.

4. Make prosecutors and cops personally liable for any provable offense such as hiding evidence that shows the defendant was innocent.

[RedFromMI]

I and anyone could stop the looting in five seconds. Your proposal is like a two decade long sales job, and a necessary sales job, but some folks will starve in 24 years, a fan. You see, I am sympathetic to folks who opened restaurants, employees who worked there, entrepreneurs who launched nail salons, heck I'm even sympathetic to large national retail chains like Gucci and Louis Vuitton to see their hard work incinerated in the flash of an eye because mayors like De Blasio in NYC and Frey in Minneapolis don't have the cojones to stand up for actual working people and the middle class in their Democratic Party manic quest to be woke.

I think it's safe to say that we have received your message that the Dems are evil, Pete.

At some point----at some point----you're going to discuss the underlying issue, right?

We're on page 55, Pete. You've claimed that Civil Rights is your #1 issue. I'm patiently waiting for you to discuss WHY people are demonstrating.

You didn't tell us that property was your #1 issue. You said it was Civil Rights.

Are you going to tell us at some point how furious you are at the loss of Civil Rights here that has led to this mess?

And I am sure that his five second solution will respect the Civil Rights of all involved...

[old salt]

Mayors are not willing to impose those restrictions. The chaos serves their political agenda. Standing up to the looters & rioters does not.

You think that having chaos in a city helps an incumbent Mayor? The ENTIRE POINT to the demonstrations is that the demonstrators are furious at the existing power structure in these cities, OS. Who do you think they're mad at? Putin?

Don't quit your day job and become a political consultant, OS.

"Vote for me, I was the guy who was in office when citizens were being murdered, and the city was on fire!"

Why did so many (D) Mayors & Govs resist calling in the National Guard early enough to make a difference ?
The NYC & DC Mayors are still resisting. The MN Gov waited too long, then had to override his Mayors.
The Portland Ore Mayor wanted them, the Gov said no, then finally sent a piddly 50 troops.

The ones who heeded my advice & called in the NG early are looking pretty smart now.
...like your Gov & Mayor.