ToastDunk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm
Forget the f’ing tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, flash bangs, et all. The President of the United States used police/military force to disrupt US citizens from expressing their 1st Amendment rights to clear a path for a photo op. Unacceptable. I don’t imagine even Old Salt will defend these actions initiated by the President. It’s un-American.
Either lift all covid related restrictions on public gatherings & social distancing or apply them to these " peaceful protests" which mask rioting, looting, arson & anarchy.
Spare me the 1st Amendment tears for this, how many of our rights have been usurped the past 2.5 mos ?
In addition to the harm these peaceful protests are doing to public safety & property damage, they're a needless public health risk that threatens to undo all that we've been sacrificing for the past 4 mos.
Hi OS. Hope you get a chance to read James Mattis' scathing criticism of Trump and his behavior not only surrounding the current protests and rioting, but actually indicting Trump's entire tenure in office. I referenced an article outlining it in my post at the top of this page. Might have some influence on your thinking about what is going on. Perhaps not. In any regard I hope you are well.
An according to a source on my Twitter feed (otherwise unsourced from Robert Draper who writes for NYT and NatGeo):
Mattis is still holding back, though. He's privately told friends that Trump's behavior is far worse than the reports & that the republic is on shaky footing. He knows so much more than he's currently divulging.
Like Coronavirus, there's no vaccine or treatment for TDS.
Adm. McRaven. Adm. McMullen. General Mattis is only the latest to succumb to the TDS scourge.
Sad!!
In Union There Is Strength
I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.
When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.
We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.
James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.
Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.
Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.
We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.
Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm
Forget the f’ing tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, flash bangs, et all. The President of the United States used police/military force to disrupt US citizens from expressing their 1st Amendment rights to clear a path for a photo op. Unacceptable. I don’t imagine even Old Salt will defend these actions initiated by the President. It’s un-American.
Either lift all covid related restrictions on public gatherings & social distancing or apply them to these " peaceful protests" which mask rioting, looting, arson & anarchy.
Not one State enforced their Covid laws against demonstrators who were demonstrating against Covid shutdowns, and clearly violated social distancing guidelines. Not one. R or D governor.
They let them have their say. Smart move, if you ask me.
I can't remember---did you complain about those protesters when they violated distancing laws, too?
I didn't notice those protests. I accepted the restrictions, as well as the needless 11 wk closure of our spacious open air dog park where we were already practicing social distancing & the cancellation of (maybe the final) the Navy-Hopkins game in a spaced out NMCMS.
They enforced their restrictions on religious services, sporting events, public gatherings & trailer park play dates for 7 year olds.
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm
Forget the f’ing tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, flash bangs, et all. The President of the United States used police/military force to disrupt US citizens from expressing their 1st Amendment rights to clear a path for a photo op. Unacceptable. I don’t imagine even Old Salt will defend these actions initiated by the President. It’s un-American.
Either lift all covid related restrictions on public gatherings & social distancing or apply them to these " peaceful protests" which mask rioting, looting, arson & anarchy.
Spare me the 1st Amendment tears for this, how many of our rights have been usurped the past 2.5 mos ?
In addition to the harm these peaceful protests are doing to public safety & property damage, they're a needless public health risk that threatens to undo all that we've been sacrificing for the past 4 mos.
Hi OS. Hope you get a chance to read James Mattis' scathing criticism of Trump and his behavior not only surrounding the current protests and rioting, but actually indicting Trump's entire tenure in office. I referenced an article outlining it in my post at the top of this page. Might have some influence on your thinking about what is going on. Perhaps not. In any regard I hope you are well.
Doing weii thanks. Good to hear from you.
I disagree with Mattis that using the National Guard is militarizing the response. In the states, the Guard are under the command of the Governors. Only in DC is the Guard under the direction of the President. The Guard is not being used in any way different than they have been used in previous times of civil unrest when they deployed in support of law enforcement.
If Trump had Federalized the state Guard units, invoked the Insurrection Act, declared martial law or deployed active duty forces,
then Mattis might have a point, depending on the magnitude of the public disorder.
I thought Esper was pitch perfect today (Mattis approved him as Sec of Army, btw)
I agree with Trump's tactics in suppressing the public disorder. I agree with the underlying public message of strength that he's sending.
He's using his WWE promotional style to convey that message to his base, to make the MSM apoplectic & to make his critics look weak.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:03 pm
They enforced their restrictions on religious services, sporting events, public gatherings & trailer park play dates for 7 year olds.
We have lost our minds.
Well... the "they" and "we" in your above sentence includes pretty much every 1st world nation, and most certainly includes every State in the Union, regardless of which party the Governor belong to....
So it sounds like we have NOT lost our minds. And took a very, very reasonable path.
And no one is happy about it. Well...except Bezos, and whomever owns Zoom. If I have to lead one more freaking Zoom seminar on whiskey production methods, I'm gonna lose MY mind.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:53 pm
Isn’t opening your business protesting against a right?
Can you rephrase? I don't understand what you're asking here.
People protesting the stay at home order, who then were opening their place of business, then being sentenced and fined.
Ah, I get it. You're right. A few businesses were stuck with fines.
I was only thinking of corollary to the George Floyd protesters------- the lockdown protesters in the streets, or inside the State Capitol building in Michigan.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:53 pm
Isn’t opening your business protesting against a right?
Can you rephrase? I don't understand what you're asking here.
People protesting the stay at home order, who then were opening their place of business, then being sentenced and fined.
Ah, I get it. You're right. A few businesses were stuck with fines.
I was only thinking of corollary to the George Floyd protesters------- the lockdown protesters in the streets, or inside the State Capitol building in Michigan.
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm
Forget the f’ing tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, flash bangs, et all. The President of the United States used police/military force to disrupt US citizens from expressing their 1st Amendment rights to clear a path for a photo op. Unacceptable. I don’t imagine even Old Salt will defend these actions initiated by the President. It’s un-American.
Either lift all covid related restrictions on public gatherings & social distancing or apply them to these " peaceful protests" which mask rioting, looting, arson & anarchy.
Spare me the 1st Amendment tears for this, how many of our rights have been usurped the past 2.5 mos ?
In addition to the harm these peaceful protests are doing to public safety & property damage, they're a needless public health risk that threatens to undo all that we've been sacrificing for the past 4 mos.
Willfully missing the point.
+1
Old Salt showing his true colors. C’mon man, you know what the President did was not only wrong, but outrageous. At least wait for the curfew to run over American citizens with the mounted police.
You mean to tell me you didn’t watch that scene unfold and say what the F is going on?
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:03 pm
They enforced their restrictions on religious services, sporting events, public gatherings & trailer park play dates for 7 year olds.
We have lost our minds.
Well... the "they" and "we" in your above sentence includes pretty much every 1st world nation, and most certainly includes every State in the Union, regardless of which party the Governor belong to....
So it sounds like we have NOT lost our minds. And took a very, very reasonable path.
And no one is happy about it. Well...except Bezos, and whomever owns Zoom. If I have to lead one more freaking Zoom seminar on whiskey production methods, I'm gonna lose MY mind.
We've lost our minds by over enforcing the lock downs, then turning a blind eye to the public health risk the protests present.
MD's moving to Phase 2 this Fri. From our state public health advisor :
In a briefing for state lawmakers on Wednesday, Thomas V. Ingelsby, director of the Center for Health Security at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, said he felt “confident” about the state’s reopening plan but was still bracing for a new wave of infections.
“We should be prepared for a rise in cases in the next two to four weeks,” said Inglesby, who serves on the governor’s recovery task force.
He said mass rallies in recent days to protest the death of George Floyd, ...have added to the risk.
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm
Forget the f’ing tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, flash bangs, et all. The President of the United States used police/military force to disrupt US citizens from expressing their 1st Amendment rights to clear a path for a photo op. Unacceptable. I don’t imagine even Old Salt will defend these actions initiated by the President. It’s un-American.
Either lift all covid related restrictions on public gatherings & social distancing or apply them to these " peaceful protests" which mask rioting, looting, arson & anarchy.
Spare me the 1st Amendment tears for this, how many of our rights have been usurped the past 2.5 mos ?
In addition to the harm these peaceful protests are doing to public safety & property damage, they're a needless public health risk that threatens to undo all that we've been sacrificing for the past 4 mos.
Willfully missing the point.
+1
Old Salt showing his true colors. C’mon man, you know what the President did was not only wrong, but outrageous. At least wait for the curfew to run over American citizens with the mounted police.
You mean to tell me you didn’t watch that scene unfold and say what the F is going on?
I saw a bunch of non-compliant protesters, throwing projectiles, who had no intention of being off the street by the time the curfew went into effect. 60 of them spent the night in the home of a resident with a house on the park.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:13 pm
We've lost our minds by over enforcing the lock downs,
I don't know what to tell you. Write your governor. i've said from day one, there is no right way to do this.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:13 pm
then turning a blind eye to the public health risk the protests present.
They didn't turn a blind eye. They knew exactly what they were risking, OS.
Governors were between a rock and a hard place.....let's say they bring the hammer down----where do propose you put all thousands of arrested people? And you have to do it in a way that keeps a Covid breakout from occurring. Good luck pulling that one off.
Our government infrastructure is already falling apart and on life support from Covid. Now you add protests in?
I know you're frustrated. So am I. When do you think these Governors last had a good nights sleep? February? Maybe?
My suggestion? Next time, don't have a policeman put his knee on someone's neck for 10 freaking minutes...and then act shocked when that person dies. That would have actually solved the problem here. Apparently, we have to tell some of our police force that that's a bad idea. You'd think that that would come with common sense, or training, or some sense of human decency. But nope, guess not.
Last edited by a fan on Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:25 pm
My suggestion? Next time, don't have a policeman put his knee on someone's neck for 10 freaking minutes...and then act shocked when that person dies. That would have actually solved the problem here. Apparently, we have to tell some of our police force that that's a bad idea. You'd think that that would come with common sense, or training, or some sense of human decency. But nope, guess not.
In no way does that justify or rationalize the damage being done by the riots, looting & arson which are enabled & masked by these "peaceful protests".
No one is defending the cop or his bosses. The cop's been indicted & is in jail. Floyd's death is being used as an excuse for mayhem, theft & violent crime, which is destroying his community. ...& it's becoming normalized.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:32 pm
In no way does that justify or rationalize the damage being done by the riots, looting & arson which are enabled & masked by these "peaceful protests".
No one is defending the cop or his bosses.
You understand, with no trouble whatsoever, that no one is defending the cop...outside of Froot Loop nutjobs.
And not one poster here has accused you, or any other poster of defending, or siding with the policeman....
...and yet you guys keep acting like folks are siding with, or condoning the looters. They're not. They're siding with the protesters, because this *hit needs to stop.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:32 pm
The cop's been indicted & is in jail. Floyd's death is being used as an excuse for mayhem, theft & violent crime, which is destroying his community.
Yep. And you think the protesters don't know this? How many videos do you need to see of protesters protecting a Target?
The protesters who are actually protesting the killing aren't the same people who are looting. It's different groups. Is it honestly that difficult to understand that?
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:32 pm
In no way does that justify or rationalize the damage being done by the riots, looting & arson which are enabled & masked by these "peaceful protests".
No one is defending the cop or his bosses.
You understand, with no trouble whatsoever, that no one is defending the cop...outside of Froot Loop nutjobs.
And not one poster here has accused you, or any other poster of defending, or siding with the policeman....
...and yet you guys keep acting like folks are siding with, or condoning the looters. They're not. They're siding with the protesters, because this *hit needs to stop.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:32 pm
The cop's been indicted & is in jail. Floyd's death is being used as an excuse for mayhem, theft & violent crime, which is destroying his community.
Yep. And you think the protesters don't know this? How many videos do you need to see of protesters protecting a Target?
The protesters who are actually protesting the killing aren't the same people who are looting. It's different groups. Is it honestly that difficult to understand that?
You can't separate the looters from the protesters.
They mask the looters & many become looters when night falls.
How many videos do you need to see of protesters looting a Target ?
When you grant the protesters carte blanche, you can't contain the looters among them.
The risk of covid spread makes the protests even less justified.
Good luck winning that lawsuit. State has the right to regulate business. The ENTIRE reason for licenses is so that they can revoke them when they feel the need.
Do you know how many licenses and permits my little family business has? I lost count when we crossed 20. I'd wager with our expansion we're over 40.
My personal favorite? A permit to have a back up generator.
You and your fellow citizens refuse to give up the right to tell me what I can and cannot do as a business. Until you're willing to let someone open a dump or a brothel next to your house? We'll always have permits....
