Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[old salt]

I don’t know what you were referring to.

None of the people in Trump’s entourage were such. Bill Barr? Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff? What role did they have in on the ground law enforcement?

None.

No one in that group had any legitimate reason for being on the street in violation of the curfew. But even assuming for the sake of argument that a few people in that group did, certainly the large majority didn’t and thus were in violation of the curfew.

What was Ivanka’s exemption? Jared’s? McEnany’s?

FBI & US Marshalls are part of DoJ.
Sec Def - Sec Army - CJCS are the chain of command for the DC NG & the military helicopters overhead.
It was a leadership demonstration, providing cover, for timid Governors & Mayors, afraid to use their law enforcement & state NG resources.
They can now justify any actions they take as less than those taken by the President.
It was also a demonstration of how to effectively use those resources.
Contrast last night in DC to the night before, or compared to NYC last night, where the Mayor declared he doesn't need the NG, but didn't have enough NYPD to stop the looting.

None of that entitles any of them, including Trump, to violate the curfew.

“Leadership demonstration?” How does that exempt them from the curfew? It doesn’t.

Supervising the helicopter pilots? Please. How were they doing that as they walked through Lafayette Square?

The fact that some of them may have ultimate, high level supervisory authority does not mean they had any actual right to be there at the time. None of them were actually doing anything in terms of crowd control.

And let’s not kid ourselves. Nobody was there to supervise crowd control. They were all there to be part of Trump’s photo op.

As I said, however, even assuming for the sake of argument that a couple of them were exempted, the large majority weren’t.

You ignore my reference to Ivanka, Jared, and McEnany, I assume because you concede they violated the curfew. Same for almost everyone else in the entourage. Obviously, the Secret Service are exempted because they have to follow Trump around even if the excursion is illegal.

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say it was OK to clear the streets of protesters in advance of the 7 PM curfew on the one hand and on the other say it is OK for Trump people to violate the curfew.

The President (w/ family & aides) has the authority to go anywhere in the US he pleases.
Especially in federally governed DC. Especially in the area adjacent to the WH.

Sure it was a symbolic act, designed to assure the public that the Fed govt will act to maintain law & order if state & local govts will not, or cannot. Do you prefer the snarky media making President in the bunker jokes & fake pathos about the church of the Presidents being torched, across the street from the WH ?

[ggait]

They're not relevant.

So then why are you posting about something you admit is irrelevant?

And also why lie about it too?

Since you said it was coming from the police chief when, in fact, it was coming from the police UNION chief.

And since you also said that Floyd's prior rap sheet had been released. In fact nothing was released today and Floyd's priors have been publicized for over a week.

Were you mistaken about those facts? Or just knowingly saying falsehoods in order to try to trigger someone?

Do you really wonder why people call your behavior trolling?

Could you please limit yourself to posting about things that are true and relevant?

Thanks,

All of us on here

[cradleandshoot]

I don’t know what you were referring to.

None of the people in Trump’s entourage were such. Bill Barr? Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff? What role did they have in on the ground law enforcement?

None.

No one in that group had any legitimate reason for being on the street in violation of the curfew. But even assuming for the sake of argument that a few people in that group did, certainly the large majority didn’t and thus were in violation of the curfew.

What was Ivanka’s exemption? Jared’s? McEnany’s?

FBI & US Marshalls are part of DoJ.
Sec Def - Sec Army - CJCS are the chain of command for the DC NG & the military helicopters overhead.
It was a leadership demonstration, providing cover, for timid Governors & Mayors, afraid to use their law enforcement & state NG resources.
They can now justify any actions they take as less than those taken by the President.
It was also a demonstration of how to effectively use those resources.
Contrast last night in DC to the night before, or compared to NYC last night, where the Mayor declared he doesn't need the NG, but didn't have enough NYPD to stop the looting.

None of that entitles any of them, including Trump, to violate the curfew.

“Leadership demonstration?” How does that exempt them from the curfew? It doesn’t.

Supervising the helicopter pilots? Please. How were they doing that as they walked through Lafayette Square?

The fact that some of them may have ultimate, high level supervisory authority does not mean they had any actual right to be there at the time. None of them were actually doing anything in terms of crowd control.

And let’s not kid ourselves. Nobody was there to supervise crowd control. They were all there to be part of Trump’s photo op.

As I said, however, even assuming for the sake of argument that a couple of them were exempted, the large majority weren’t.

You ignore my reference to Ivanka, Jared, and McEnany, I assume because you concede they violated the curfew. Same for almost everyone else in the entourage. Obviously, the Secret Service are exempted because they have to follow Trump around even if the excursion is illegal.

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say it was OK to clear the streets of protesters in advance of the 7 PM curfew on the one hand and on the other say it is OK for Trump people to violate the curfew.

The President (w/ family & aides) has the authority to go anywhere in the US he pleases.
Especially in federally governed DC. Especially in the area adjacent to the WH.

Sure it was a symbolic act, designed to assure the public that the Fed govt will act to maintain law & order if state & local govts will not, or cannot. Do you prefer the snarky media making President in the bunker jokes & fake pathos about the church of the Presidents being torched, across the street from the WH ?

If it had been BHO making the same gesture the folks in his path would have been cleared out with bulldozers and flamethrowers and the usual suspect on this forum would have cheered loudly. The audacity of some redneck SOB trying to stop Barack from getting to church.

[Typical Lax Dad]

And 28 years later

[get it to x]

I don’t know what you were referring to.

None of the people in Trump’s entourage were such. Bill Barr? Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff? What role did they have in on the ground law enforcement?

None.

No one in that group had any legitimate reason for being on the street in violation of the curfew. But even assuming for the sake of argument that a few people in that group did, certainly the large majority didn’t and thus were in violation of the curfew.

What was Ivanka’s exemption? Jared’s? McEnany’s?

FBI & US Marshalls are part of DoJ.
Sec Def - Sec Army - CJCS are the chain of command for the DC NG & the military helicopters overhead.
It was a leadership demonstration, providing cover, for timid Governors & Mayors, afraid to use their law enforcement & state NG resources.
They can now justify any actions they take as less than those taken by the President.
It was also a demonstration of how to effectively use those resources.
Contrast last night in DC to the night before, or compared to NYC last night, where the Mayor declared he doesn't need the NG, but didn't have enough NYPD to stop the looting.

None of that entitles any of them, including Trump, to violate the curfew.

“Leadership demonstration?” How does that exempt them from the curfew? It doesn’t.

Supervising the helicopter pilots? Please. How were they doing that as they walked through Lafayette Square?

The fact that some of them may have ultimate, high level supervisory authority does not mean they had any actual right to be there at the time. None of them were actually doing anything in terms of crowd control.

And let’s not kid ourselves. Nobody was there to supervise crowd control. They were all there to be part of Trump’s photo op.

As I said, however, even assuming for the sake of argument that a couple of them were exempted, the large majority weren’t.

You ignore my reference to Ivanka, Jared, and McEnany, I assume because you concede they violated the curfew. Same for almost everyone else in the entourage. Obviously, the Secret Service are exempted because they have to follow Trump around even if the excursion is illegal.

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say it was OK to clear the streets of protesters in advance of the 7 PM curfew on the one hand and on the other say it is OK for Trump people to violate the curfew.

The President (w/ family & aides) has the authority to go anywhere in the US he pleases.
Especially in federally governed DC. Especially in the area adjacent to the WH.

Sure it was a symbolic act, designed to assure the public that the Fed govt will act to maintain law & order if state & local govts will not, or cannot. Do you prefer the snarky media making President in the bunker jokes & fake pathos about the church of the Presidents being torched, across the street from the WH ?

Salt, I don't know how you can defend the President's curfew violation. What's worse is I think he jaywalked on his way to the church.

[youthathletics]

US Park Police said they used smoke bombs not tear gas. You wouldn’t use tear gas then ride a horse directly into it.

The reporting is that both flash bang grenades and tear gas were used.

It might be true that the Park Police didn’t use tear gas. I don’t know. There were a number of different law-enforcement agencies present. One of them used tear gas. I was watching live. It was obvious.

Even if flash bang grenades (not smoke bombs) were also used, how is that legal? Answer: it wasn’t.

All for a Trump campaign stunt, which by the way has colossally backfired. The stunt was also illegal as it occurred after 7 PM. Gee, I wonder why Trump and his entourage weren’t arrested for violating the curfew?

Anybody that was there would know in a heartbeat. You get upwind of some CS gas you will know and you will not forget it. Using flash bangs is nothing sort of brain damaged. Unless you want people to think they are at a 4th of July celebration. Flash bangs are specifically intended to disorient people in small spaces. In open spaces they are nothing more than M80s. Now if you wanted to throw in a couple of hand grenades... well now there is a way to clear a path mucho quicko.

According to TWP it was smoke cannisters.

Officers from the U.S. Park Police and other agencies used smoke canisters, riot shields, batons and officers on horseback to shove and chase people

[old salt]

I don’t know what you were referring to.

None of the people in Trump’s entourage were such. Bill Barr? Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff? What role did they have in on the ground law enforcement?

None.

No one in that group had any legitimate reason for being on the street in violation of the curfew. But even assuming for the sake of argument that a few people in that group did, certainly the large majority didn’t and thus were in violation of the curfew.

What was Ivanka’s exemption? Jared’s? McEnany’s?

FBI & US Marshalls are part of DoJ.
Sec Def - Sec Army - CJCS are the chain of command for the DC NG & the military helicopters overhead.
It was a leadership demonstration, providing cover, for timid Governors & Mayors, afraid to use their law enforcement & state NG resources.
They can now justify any actions they take as less than those taken by the President.
It was also a demonstration of how to effectively use those resources.
Contrast last night in DC to the night before, or compared to NYC last night, where the Mayor declared he doesn't need the NG, but didn't have enough NYPD to stop the looting.

None of that entitles any of them, including Trump, to violate the curfew.

“Leadership demonstration?” How does that exempt them from the curfew? It doesn’t.

Supervising the helicopter pilots? Please. How were they doing that as they walked through Lafayette Square?

The fact that some of them may have ultimate, high level supervisory authority does not mean they had any actual right to be there at the time. None of them were actually doing anything in terms of crowd control.

And let’s not kid ourselves. Nobody was there to supervise crowd control. They were all there to be part of Trump’s photo op.

As I said, however, even assuming for the sake of argument that a couple of them were exempted, the large majority weren’t.

You ignore my reference to Ivanka, Jared, and McEnany, I assume because you concede they violated the curfew. Same for almost everyone else in the entourage. Obviously, the Secret Service are exempted because they have to follow Trump around even if the excursion is illegal.

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say it was OK to clear the streets of protesters in advance of the 7 PM curfew on the one hand and on the other say it is OK for Trump people to violate the curfew.

The President (w/ family & aides) has the authority to go anywhere in the US he pleases.
Especially in federally governed DC. Especially in the area adjacent to the WH.

Sure it was a symbolic act, designed to assure the public that the Fed govt will act to maintain law & order if state & local govts will not, or cannot. Do you prefer the snarky media making President in the bunker jokes & fake pathos about the church of the Presidents being torched, across the street from the WH ?

Salt, I don't know how you can defend the President's curfew violation. What's worse is I think he jaywalked on his way to the church.

.. ...did you catch the MSNBC tear jerker about 60 protesters, caught out at curfew start, holed up in a good samaritan's home, until 6 am.
They had pizza delivered. I hope they tipped the delivery guy hazardous duty pay.

Tip to DC protesters. The curfew is in effect from 7 pm 'til 6 am. Be wherever you intend to spend that time by 7 pm.
That's how a curfew is supposed to work.

[a fan]

According to the white girl, the black girl has it all wrong. Others just want her to be quiet because she doesn't 'fit' the message. Judge as you see fit but Nestride has some stones.

Total logic fail. Gang violence in Chicago has nothing to do with trained government employees murdering black men.

This is like walking into the middle of a Tea Party protest and asking them why they aren't protesting about 2A rights.

Yeah. Unless trained govt employees are involved (or fail to police effectively), some black lives don't matter. Perfect logic.

How large & well trained is the Chicago PD, IL State Police & IL NG ?

Well that's certainly a new one from you. The murder rate in cities is on the cops....so you think this is a policing failure?

So you're on the side of BLM? This is all on the cops?

[old salt]

According to the white girl, the black girl has it all wrong. Others just want her to be quiet because she doesn't 'fit' the message. Judge as you see fit but Nestride has some stones.

Total logic fail. Gang violence in Chicago has nothing to do with trained government employees murdering black men.

This is like walking into the middle of a Tea Party protest and asking them why they aren't protesting about 2A rights.

Yeah. Unless trained govt employees are involved (or fail to police effectively), some black lives don't matter. Perfect logic.

How large & well trained is the Chicago PD, IL State Police & IL NG ?

Well that's certainly a new one from you. The murder rate in cities is on the cops....so you think this is a policing failure?

So you're on the side of BLM? This is all on the cops?

I'm questioning your logic fail. I agree with the young lady.

[a fan]

Yeah. Unless trained govt employees are involved (or fail to police effectively), some black lives don't matter. Perfect logic.

How large & well trained is the Chicago PD, IL State Police & IL NG ?

Well that's certainly a new one from you. The murder rate in cities is on the cops....so you think this is a policing failure?

So you're on the side of BLM? This is all on the cops?

I'm questioning your logic fail.

I get that. You're doing it by blaming the police in Chicago and IL. Do I have that right, or not?


And sorry, that still doesn't make any sense. You're not allowed to get mad that a man was murdered by a police officer in Seattle "because" the murder rate in Chicago is high?

I don't understand why you think this makes sense.

Does this mean you think I should be yelling at you for getting upset over Flynn's treatment, when there are thousands of other people unjustly incarcerated in American prisons? Should I tell you that you aren't allowed to get mad at Flynn's case, until "x, y, and Z happens"??

This is silly.

[Peter Brown]

They're not relevant.

So then why are you posting about something you admit is irrelevant?

And also why lie about it too?

Since you said it was coming from the police chief when, in fact, it was coming from the police UNION chief.

And since you also said that Floyd's prior rap sheet had been released. In fact nothing was released today and Floyd's priors have been publicized for over a week.

Were you mistaken about those facts? Or just knowingly saying falsehoods in order to try to trigger someone?

Do you really wonder why people call your behavior trolling?

Could you please limit yourself to posting about things that are true and relevant?

Thanks,

All of us on here

By “all of us”, did you mean ‘by all of us Democrats”? I have some fans on here; they may be few in number, but what they lack in absolute, they more than make up in love! Also, unlike ‘some’ on here, my posts are rooted in deep philosophical underpinnings; a few irrelevant facts might be messy, but the primal human law that Democratic philosophy is wildly antithetical to American excellence remains firm!

So, technically, my post was addressed to Brook, whose posts I enjoy; the post was not addressed to you. You parachuted in, and I was happy to reply.

This may come as a shock, but you have an alternative. The solution is for you to mute me! Partings can be such sweet sorrow, so perhaps you will rue the day you ghost me? I’ll be here ‘trolling’ Democrats!

[Typical Lax Dad]

Yeah. Unless trained govt employees are involved (or fail to police effectively), some black lives don't matter. Perfect logic.

How large & well trained is the Chicago PD, IL State Police & IL NG ?

Well that's certainly a new one from you. The murder rate in cities is on the cops....so you think this is a policing failure?

So you're on the side of BLM? This is all on the cops?

I'm questioning your logic fail.

I get that. You're doing it by blaming the police in Chicago and IL. Do I have that right, or not?


And sorry, that still doesn't make any sense. You're not allowed to get mad that a man was murdered by a police officer in Seattle "because" the murder rate in Chicago is high?

I don't understand why you think this makes sense.

Does this mean you think I should be yelling at you for getting upset over Flynn's treatment, when there are thousands of other people unjustly incarcerated in American prisons? Should I tell you that you aren't allowed to get mad at Flynn's case, until "x, y, and Z happens"??

This is silly.

You are not allowed to get mad because they are all the same.

[old salt]

Yeah. Unless trained govt employees are involved (or fail to police effectively), some black lives don't matter. Perfect logic.

How large & well trained is the Chicago PD, IL State Police & IL NG ?

Well that's certainly a new one from you. The murder rate in cities is on the cops....so you think this is a policing failure?

So you're on the side of BLM? This is all on the cops?

I'm questioning your logic fail.

I get that. You're doing it by blaming the police in Chicago and IL. Do I have that right, or not?


And sorry, that still doesn't make any sense. You're not allowed to get mad that a man was murdered by a police officer in Seattle "because" the murder rate in Chicago is high?

I don't understand why you think this makes sense.

Does this mean you think I should be yelling at you for getting upset over Flynn's treatment, when there are thousands of other people unjustly incarcerated in American prisons? Should I tell you that you aren't allowed to get mad at Flynn's case, until "x, y, and Z happens"??

This is silly.

No need to put words in my mouth. I agree with the young lady.

You chose to address the effectiveness of local govt policing in MN & ignore it as a factor in IL.

I choose to not further debate the inconsistency of your silly false equivalency.

[get it to x]

They're not relevant.

So then why are you posting about something you admit is irrelevant?

And also why lie about it too?

Since you said it was coming from the police chief when, in fact, it was coming from the police UNION chief.

And since you also said that Floyd's prior rap sheet had been released. In fact nothing was released today and Floyd's priors have been publicized for over a week.

Were you mistaken about those facts? Or just knowingly saying falsehoods in order to try to trigger someone?

Do you really wonder why people call your behavior trolling?

Could you please limit yourself to posting about things that are true and relevant?

Thanks,

All of us on here

By “all of us”, did you mean ‘by all of us Democrats”? I have some fans on here; they may be few in number, but what they lack in absolute, they more than make up in love! Also, unlike ‘some’ on here, my posts are rooted in deep philosophical underpinnings; a few irrelevant facts might be messy, but the primal human law that Democratic philosophy is wildly antithetical to American excellence remains firm!

So, technically, my post was addressed to Brook, whose posts I enjoy; the post was not addressed to you. You parachuted in, and I was happy to reply.

This may come as a shock, but you have an alternative. The solution is for you to mute me! Partings can be such sweet sorrow, so perhaps you will rue the day you ghost me? I’ll be here ‘trolling’ Democrats!

The word is Democrat. The name of the party is The Democrat Party. They are Democrats because they want to replace the Republic and it's quirky Electoral College, the thing that actually binds us together and prevents the tyranny of the majority.

[njbill]

The President (w/ family & aides) has the authority to go anywhere in the US he pleases.
Especially in federally governed DC. Especially in the area adjacent to the WH.

Huh? He doesn’t have the authority to enter my house without my permission, I can tell you that. Or, in Trump-ese, that I can tell you.

Why do you think he stayed on the sidewalk last night? It was because he knew he didn’t have permission to enter onto the church property.

Whether or not he has the authority to take people with him when he goes places (and there are certainly limits to that), he doesn’t have the authority to exempt members of his family and his entourage from the curfew law, which is what you are, in effect, saying.

[Peter Brown]

They're not relevant.

So then why are you posting about something you admit is irrelevant?

And also why lie about it too?

Since you said it was coming from the police chief when, in fact, it was coming from the police UNION chief.

And since you also said that Floyd's prior rap sheet had been released. In fact nothing was released today and Floyd's priors have been publicized for over a week.

Were you mistaken about those facts? Or just knowingly saying falsehoods in order to try to trigger someone?

Do you really wonder why people call your behavior trolling?

Could you please limit yourself to posting about things that are true and relevant?

Thanks,

All of us on here

By “all of us”, did you mean ‘by all of us Democrats”? I have some fans on here; they may be few in number, but what they lack in absolute, they more than make up in love! Also, unlike ‘some’ on here, my posts are rooted in deep philosophical underpinnings; a few irrelevant facts might be messy, but the primal human law that Democratic philosophy is wildly antithetical to American excellence remains firm!

So, technically, my post was addressed to Brook, whose posts I enjoy; the post was not addressed to you. You parachuted in, and I was happy to reply.

This may come as a shock, but you have an alternative. The solution is for you to mute me! Partings can be such sweet sorrow, so perhaps you will rue the day you ghost me? I’ll be here ‘trolling’ Democrats!

The word is Democrat. The name of the party is The Democrat Party. They are Democrats because they want to replace the Republic and it's quirky Electoral College, the thing that actually binds us together and prevents the tyranny of the majority.

Yup.

While we’re here, Don Lemon is one dumb, misguided liberal. Listening to him is like listening to a 14 year old girl after her first heartache. Painful.

[njbill]

US Park Police said they used smoke bombs not tear gas. You wouldn’t use tear gas then ride a horse directly into it.

The reporting is that both flash bang grenades and tear gas were used.

It might be true that the Park Police didn’t use tear gas. I don’t know. There were a number of different law-enforcement agencies present. One of them used tear gas. I was watching live. It was obvious.

Even if flash bang grenades (not smoke bombs) were also used, how is that legal? Answer: it wasn’t.

All for a Trump campaign stunt, which by the way has colossally backfired. The stunt was also illegal as it occurred after 7 PM. Gee, I wonder why Trump and his entourage weren’t arrested for violating the curfew?

Anybody that was there would know in a heartbeat. You get upwind of some CS gas you will know and you will not forget it. Using flash bangs is nothing sort of brain damaged. Unless you want people to think they are at a 4th of July celebration. Flash bangs are specifically intended to disorient people in small spaces. In open spaces they are nothing more than M80s. Now if you wanted to throw in a couple of hand grenades... well now there is a way to clear a path mucho quicko.

According to TWP it was smoke cannisters.

Officers from the U.S. Park Police and other agencies used smoke canisters, riot shields, batons and officers on horseback to shove and chase people

Uh, you neglected to mention the rubber bullets which the article also references. There were lots of press reports that tear gas was used. It is possible that the protesters mistook the smoke for tear gas. Of course the flash bomb grenades are designed to throw off smoke that appears to be tear gas to intimidate the crowd.

[ggait]

The solution is for you to mute me!

Petey -- I blocked you a long time ago.

Unfortunately, your gaslighting and trolling are so voluminous that I still see that portion which shows up when others reply to you (and paste in your musings). So that's what I see and respond to.

I can only imagine what you say in the stuff that gets blocked. IMO, you've turned our spirited, intelligent and mostly friendly board into just another online toxic waste site. I now learn much less on here since you showed up.

If I can't figure out a way to completely ghost you, I think I'll just have to leave this little community behind. Too bad -- I've been on here for a long time -- much longer than you. While my participation survived the demise of LaxPower, I don't think it can survive you.

[Brooklyn]

I blame YOU brookie. This aresewhole cop, he was a rookie cop, no? LOOK IN THE MIRROR.....you did NOTHING to stop the police from being scumbags....in your own home town. Clean up your own house before you post your nonsense on here. YOU are to blame for the murder by the police. ( or, have you already posted a clownish cartoon, blaming the POTUSA ? )

And to the TROLL that is Peter Brown.......video matters? For all to see. Besides NO riots (should STILL be ) the cop that killed Dan Shaver, what's HE up too these days, eh PB? Any video of THAT murder, by Phillip Brainsford, from his body cam? You ARE a troll. Good cops don't allow knees to the throat. I will make a Peter Brown generalization. ALL cops are scum and murderers. ALL of them. Except the ones that vote for Trump.

What can anyone say to such pearls of unadulterated wisdom?

Guilty as charged!

[a fan]

No need to put words in my mouth. I agree with the young lady.

You chose to address the effectiveness of local govt policing in MN & ignore it as a factor in IL.

Now who's putting words in whose mouth? I've done no such thing. I'm simply surprised you're blaming the police for the murder rate in Chicago.

BTW, I don't know why people are all over Chicago. St. Louis has the worst death rate. Pick on them.

I choose to not further debate the inconsistency of your silly false equivalency.

She is telling people that they "aren't allowed" to protest institutional murders until the death rate from gang violence Chicago comes down?

And you're pointing fingers at ME for false equivalencies?

Are there any other protests that "aren't allowed' by you and this lady, OS, or just this one?

Wait by your phone, OS. I'm sure BLM and other protesters will call you to get your green light before they head out.