You'll have a vaccine before Fall so the fear of a permanently changed landscape is a tad overdone, to say the least.
maybe. but not only do we need the vaccine, we need to develop enough, and then distribute, then get people in for it. before they die.
then we need it to work.
and we still need therapy for those afflicted.
but sure a vaccine would be a good enhancement. aint no one gonna argue that!
A vax may be right for some. An effective vax would be awesome.
But I wont be the first raising my hand to get a vax for something that hasn't been at least tested a little bit.
How do they develop a vax when they still can't tell us all the characteristics of this virus and how it spreads? IS it effected by heat? Sun? How long does it last on surfaces? Then the bigger questions- What is the actual death rate from this virus? How many strains are there? Waaay more questions than answers so far.
I'm certainly not an antivaxxer. I'll generally pump myself and my kids full of whatever vax you got. But I'm not enthusiastic about a safe/effective vax by Halloween, or Christmas.
i agree with this. all of it. why trust the govt and be their guinea pig? especially when its so obvious they are rushing and public pressure is on, election year, etc.
otherwise cosmo i think you are raising the right questions. see what this forum could look like without the flaming?
There are 29,413,039 corporations in America; but only one Chairman of the Board.
When we saw it emerge, we needed to respond aggressively. This is just the beginning. I am convinced the worst is coming in October-March unless we get lucky. Somewhere between 500,000 to 750,000.
When we saw it emerge, we needed to respond aggressively. This is just the beginning. I am convinced the worst is coming in October-March unless we get lucky. Somewhere between 500,000 to 750,000.
When we saw it emerge, we needed to respond aggressively. This is just the beginning. I am convinced the worst is coming in October-March unless we get lucky. Somewhere between 500,000 to 750,000.
He said a second wave isn't inevitable if we follow CDC guidelines, you know, the ones Trump wants us to ignore.
So where does that leave us if we don't follow the guidelines?
In my little corner of the world, Wegmans is no longer restricting the number of people in the store (no more lines) and Wawa is back to self service coffee. Good changes? Bad Changes? We'll see.
When we saw it emerge, we needed to respond aggressively. This is just the beginning. I am convinced the worst is coming in October-March unless we get lucky. Somewhere between 500,000 to 750,000.
He said a second wave isn't inevitable if we follow CDC guidelines, you know, the ones Trump wants us to ignore.
So where does that leave us if we don't follow the guidelines?
In my little corner of the world, Wegmans is no longer restricting the number of people in the store (no more lines) and Wawa is back to self service coffee. Good changes? Bad Changes? We'll see.
California seeing a surge.
Will be interesting g to see what happens in MD.
Feel like MD moved to phase 1 quickly and unexpectedly. Gov Hogan is been getting beat up pretty good in MD so believe he is pushing things along quicker than they probably should. The goalposts changed from what he originally said.
When we saw it emerge, we needed to respond aggressively. This is just the beginning. I am convinced the worst is coming in October-March unless we get lucky. Somewhere between 500,000 to 750,000.
He said a second wave isn't inevitable if we follow CDC guidelines, you know, the ones Trump wants us to ignore.
So where does that leave us if we don't follow the guidelines?
In my little corner of the world, Wegmans is no longer restricting the number of people in the store (no more lines) and Wawa is back to self service coffee. Good changes? Bad Changes? We'll see.
California seeing a surge.
Will be interesting g to see what happens in MD.
Feel like MD moved to phase 1 quickly and unexpectedly. Gov Hogan is been getting beat up pretty good in MD so believe he is pushing things along quicker than they probably should. The goalposts changed from what he originally said.
Most of the MD openings are outdoor stuff. I think the latest from the CDC about lack of outdoor spreading may have been a factor.
As MD testing has increased significantly, positive %'s of tests have steadily declined. Hospitalizations have plateaued & stabilized. Daily deaths are decreasing.
You'll have a vaccine before Fall so the fear of a permanently changed landscape is a tad overdone, to say the least.
maybe. but not only do we need the vaccine, we need to develop enough, and then distribute, then get people in for it. before they die.
then we need it to work.
and we still need therapy for those afflicted.
but sure a vaccine would be a good enhancement. aint no one gonna argue that!
A vax may be right for some. An effective vax would be awesome.
But I wont be the first raising my hand to get a vax for something that hasn't been at least tested a little bit.
How do they develop a vax when they still can't tell us all the characteristics of this virus and how it spreads? IS it effected by heat? Sun? How long does it last on surfaces? Then the bigger questions- What is the actual death rate from this virus? How many strains are there? Waaay more questions than answers so far.
I'm certainly not an antivaxxer. I'll generally pump myself and my kids full of whatever vax you got. But I'm not enthusiastic about a safe/effective vax by Halloween, or Christmas.
These are important questions, no doubt, but do the answers to these questions need to be fully answered to generate an effective vaccine?
We know quite a bit about this virus. We know its genome. We know it has come capability to repair errors in its genome. We have a good understanding of how the replication machinery reacts. Yes, UV kills the virus, in laboratory tests. The question is will the change and intensity of the UV in our general area have a great enough impact to knock down the virus in a seasonal manner, like the flu? I believe there are still questions regarding how aerosolized (sp?) the virus is and how much of a viral load this presents. I do not see how the death rate would relate to the generation of a vaccine?
From my reading, and I am no expert by any means, the majority of vaccines are being produced to recognize aspects of the virus cell surface spike protein. Your question regarding the number of strains is spot on here.........do the different strains have different spike proteins? Time will tell on that one. I would imagine that a virus with such a large genome as the COVID family has the majority of its mutations in areas that are not important for protein production due to the ability of the virus to correct mistakes in its own genome, again I have not seen data that suggest either or on this.
There is some interesting data coming out regarding the virus and IL6/inflamatory storm. I will be interested to see how this plays out in regards to a potential vaccine. This is out of my area, I have had to really reread my immunology stuff (and am fairly lost most times) but I do not see how generation of proteins to the spike protein would effect the IL6 pathway but.........there was one subject in the Moderna trial who had a high fever at the absolute highest dose which I might thing was an inflammatory response?
You may have a much better background in this than I do and I may certainly be off base on this but I welcome either being pointed to readings to set me straight. Thanks.
Dr. Anthony Fauci now says a resurgence of Covid-19 is “not inevitable,” if Americans have the willpower to follow CDC guidelines.
Dr Common Sense says this nation doesn’t take to instruction very well. My fear is a resurgence may be likely and if we thought this period has been difficult, then having the trilogy of Halloween, Thanksgiving and Xmas derailed will be like a horror movie.
You'll have a vaccine before Fall so the fear of a permanently changed landscape is a tad overdone, to say the least.
maybe. but not only do we need the vaccine, we need to develop enough, and then distribute, then get people in for it. before they die.
then we need it to work.
and we still need therapy for those afflicted.
but sure a vaccine would be a good enhancement. aint no one gonna argue that!
A vax may be right for some. An effective vax would be awesome.
But I wont be the first raising my hand to get a vax for something that hasn't been at least tested a little bit.
How do they develop a vax when they still can't tell us all the characteristics of this virus and how it spreads? IS it effected by heat? Sun? How long does it last on surfaces? Then the bigger questions- What is the actual death rate from this virus? How many strains are there? Waaay more questions than answers so far.
I'm certainly not an antivaxxer. I'll generally pump myself and my kids full of whatever vax you got. But I'm not enthusiastic about a safe/effective vax by Halloween, or Christmas.
I'd bet there are plenty who feel this way as well. It's not a matter of being defiant, but a matter of not being willing to be a guinea pig. When I was in the Navy back with John Paul Jones the swine flu was a major concern and all were required to go get the shot. I had read enough about the shot to not be willing to be one of those guinea pigs and refused to do it. Again, I didn't consider it a rebellious act or as disobeying an order, I just figured I was the one who makes the call as to whether or not you're going to inject me with a relatively new drug that you're not certain won't kill me or bring on guillian barre syndrome. Took a bit of heat from some big shot brass boys but I never got the shot.
You'll have a vaccine before Fall so the fear of a permanently changed landscape is a tad overdone, to say the least.
maybe. but not only do we need the vaccine, we need to develop enough, and then distribute, then get people in for it. before they die.
then we need it to work.
and we still need therapy for those afflicted.
but sure a vaccine would be a good enhancement. aint no one gonna argue that!
A vax may be right for some. An effective vax would be awesome.
But I wont be the first raising my hand to get a vax for something that hasn't been at least tested a little bit.
How do they develop a vax when they still can't tell us all the characteristics of this virus and how it spreads? IS it effected by heat? Sun? How long does it last on surfaces? Then the bigger questions- What is the actual death rate from this virus? How many strains are there? Waaay more questions than answers so far.
I'm certainly not an antivaxxer. I'll generally pump myself and my kids full of whatever vax you got. But I'm not enthusiastic about a safe/effective vax by Halloween, or Christmas.
I'd bet there are plenty who feel this way as well. It's not a matter of being defiant, but a matter of not being willing to be a guinea pig. When I was in the Navy back with John Paul Jones the swine flu was a major concern and all were required to go get the shot. I had read enough about the shot to not be willing to be one of those guinea pigs and refused to do it. Again, I didn't consider it a rebellious act or as disobeying an order, I just figured I was the one who makes the call as to whether or not you're going to inject me with a relatively new drug that you're not certain won't kill me or bring on guillian barre syndrome. Took a bit of heat from some big shot brass boys but I never got the shot.
My take on your take... We have the right to take risks that don't affect others. Drunk driving is an example. Statist governments in their quest for Utopia are trying to woo us with a "zero risk" society. That allows them to push and pull the levers of government to control us. The article below points to the flaw in that approach as they scramble to protect us from ourselves.
FTA, Just one of 7 or 8 new rules that are completely counter intuitive. But we must obey the scientists.
"After an extensive study and review by local scientists and public officials, you can go to a barber shop and/or beauty salon and get your “hair styled”, as long as the ‘styling’ doesn’t involve the actual cutting of the hair. Apparently, in phase-1 the COVID virus can identify when scissors are present and the virus will attack with increased severity."
Sounds like an Abbott and Costello routine.
If I had a restaurant I would open as normal, full capacity. Extra hygiene precautions would be taken. Every customer would sign a waiver holding my restaurant, the employees and other customers harmless from Covid 19. I might wind up with an empty restaurant or a full one. But it would be my choice and my potential customers choice.
"I would never want to belong to a club that would have me as a member", Groucho Marx
Why? The Swamp is preventing the use of this "Game changer!"
VA says it has ‘ratcheted down’ use of hydroxychloroquine to treat veterans
By
Alex Horton
May 28, 2020 at 7:05 p.m. EDT
The Department of Veterans Affairs has drastically scaled back the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat veterans with coronavirus infections after a major study raised questions about its efficacy and linked it to serious side effects, including higher risks of death.
Testifying before the House Appropriations subcommittee on military construction, Veterans Affairs and related agencies, VA Secretary Robert Wilkie defended the continued use of the unproven drug but said it was used just three times last week.
“We have ratcheted down as we’ve brought more treatments online,” Wilkie, who wore a surgical mask, told the panel. “And I expect that to continue.”
At the height of its use, VA prescribed the drug to 404 patients the week of March 29, agency data shows.
The most high-profile proponent and user of hydroxychloroquine is President Trump, who has heralded the antimalarial drug as a treatment “game changer” and asked patients “What do you have to lose?” by taking it. The president said he was taking it himself as a prophylactic but has since said he has stopped.
White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said at a news conference Thursday that Trump was “feeling perfect” after taking the drug and would take it again if he thought he was exposed to the disease.
“It’s important to note that this drug has been safely used by millions of people for a long time,” she said.
Trump says he is taking hydroxychloroquine to protect against coronavirus, dismissing safety concerns
Anthony S. Fauci, the country’s top infectious-disease expert, said Wednesday on CNN that “the scientific data is really quite evident now about the lack of efficacy.”
Fauci’s remarks came on the heels of a global study that concluded the drug was linked to significantly higher risk of death and irregular heart rhythms when used for coronavirus treatment.
Participating by teleconference, Appropriations Committee Chairman Nita M. Lowey (D-N.Y.) told Wilkie: “I hope VA would respond to the science that is clearly coming from Dr. Fauci, rather than some wishful thinking from the president.”
VA has issued the drug to 1,300 patients suffering from covid-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus, the agency told Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) in a letter last week.
A retrospective, non-peer-reviewed study by VA and academic researchers of 368 patients at VA hospitals showed that the drug had no benefit in treating coronavirus patients and was linked to higher rates of death. More than 27 percent of patients who received the drug had died, versus 11.4 percent who died with no drug regimen, the study said.
The number of patients receiving the drug has declined since late March. But the largest weekly drop, 78.8 percent, occurred after the VA-focused study was published online. A VA spokesman did not return a request for comment on whether the study played a role in that drop.
The Food and Drug Administration, in a safety alert issued April 24, warned that it had received reports that hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine could have serious side effects and that the drug should be taken under the close supervision of a doctor in a hospital setting or a clinical trial.
“We are all learning as we go,” Wilkie said of the drug’s use, including consultations he has had with Fauci as late as this week. Both officials serve on the White House’s coronavirus task force.
Wilkie said that after peaks of use in a crush of patients, VA has scaled back use of the drug as other treatments, such as remdesivir and convalescent plasma, have become more common.
But unanswered questions about VA’s continued use of the drug still linger among veterans advocates.
Jeremy Butler, the chief executive of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, said the agency has not publicly addressed the barrage of studies showing elevated risk and has not provided updates on patient outcomes since the VA study was made available last month.
“VA seems to adamantly want to avoid saying they think it was a bad idea,” Butler said after watching Wilkie’s testimony. “They’re still using it as an open question while evidence is to the contrary.”
Drug promoted by Trump as coronavirus ‘game changer’ increasingly linked to deaths
Hydroxychloroquine is commonly prescribed at VA hospitals for lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, and VA doctors administer the drug only after ensuring patients and caretakers know its risks, a common practice with other treatments and drugs, agency spokeswoman Christina Noel said. But she has not addressed questions about whether new studies have prompted a reevaluation of the department’s drug policy.
“It makes you wonder what they’re saying when they’re having consultations with patients,” Butler said of Wilkie’s testimony.
The Veterans of Foreign Wars said on May 1 it was “very disturbed” VA was administering the drug, and it called on the agency to halt its use. The group on Thursday said Wilkie and VA have been more transparent about the drug since then.
At least 1,200 veterans have died of covid-19, VA said Thursday, although that is an undercount. At least 614 veterans have died at state-run veterans homes, Vietnam Veterans of America said Thursday, though only 19 states are publicly and fully reporting the number of dead in those homes, the group said. VA figures do not include them, Noel has said.
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am Mr moderator, deactivate my account. You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy. This is cradle and shoot signing out.
The World Health Organization is recommending healthy people, including those who don't exhibit COVID-19 symptoms, only wear masks when taking care of someone infected with the contagion, a sharp contrast from the advice given by American public health officials who recommend everyone wear a mask in public.
"If you do not have any respiratory symptoms such as fever, cough or runny nose, you do not need to wear a mask," Dr. April Baller, a public health specialist for the WHO, says in a video on the world health body's website posted in March. "Masks should only be used by health care workers, caretakers or by people who are sick with symptoms of fever and cough."
