I 'hijacked it"?old salt wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 6:14 pmBlah, blah, blah. I was replying to a post comparing US vs France testing, before you remounted your tedious soap box & highjacked the thread.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 6:05 pmNo, SK was hit earlier. They're right next door and a ton of travel had already occurred.old salt wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 4:58 pmAgain -- despite all your blather, I'm saying what I said, in response to a post comparing testing by the US with France (not S Korea).MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:43 am"tedious", probably.old salt wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 9:51 pmI'm saying exactly what I said. No need for you to embellish it, on my behalf, or use it to project another of your tedious, self-serving, sermonettes.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 8:04 pmhmmm, no, we blew the early testing...at the federal level.old salt wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 5:50 pmDuh. Are you saying S Korea is a W Euro nation ?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 5:43 pmAre you saying South Korea's reporting is inaccurate?old salt wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 5:34 pm...in response to a post comparing France's testing with the US's.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 9:21 am Old Salt was comparing France at 65MM people to the USA.
If testing is a such panacea (& US failure), why is France's death rate so much higher than the US's ?
With a smaller population, spread over a smaller area, & a superior testing program, why is France's death rate not lower than the US's ?
Otherwise, I've compared the US with the W Euro nations, in the aggregate, who have attempted to accurately report their data, as the most relevant
Did someone say France's testing program was better than the US?
Germany's definitely much better, not sure that's true of France.
Germany's deaths per 1mm pop is 96, US 275 (so far).
You do realize that the death rate comparison related to geography would actually be an explanation of higher death rate in France than overall US, due to density? Perhaps you'd like to compare France's death rates to a comparable geography and population say, NY and NJ, both of which have death rates per 1mm over double France's?
Read the thread I'm responding to. Ignore the voices in your head.
I agree that the record of NY & NJ PH effort has been dismal -- eg nursing homes, under-utilization of hospital ship/field hospitals, & failure to lock down, test & trace early.
Like the MSM, you let the NYC metro experience skew what needs to be done in the rest of the US.
Are you saying SK is phoning their results from test and trace? Their death rates?
Or Germany?
The federal response was dismal, NY got hit first and hardest, with the European strain. It spread like wildfire and was not contained until far too late. Density.
Compare France to NY, which last I checked is America.
under utilization of hospital ships, field hospitals??? Baloney. The PPE wasn't available, those additional beds weren't available until after the heaviest crunch hit...they helped but it was all too late.
6 weeks lost at the federal level. NY and neighbors just took the big hit first.
The rest of the country is going to be a slower burn...we hope.
There was no vaild reason to send positive covid patients back into nursing homes while 4 field hospitals in the NYC area sat empty.
Did NYC have a Health Dept capable of contact tracing, or was their mission soley to hype ethnic celebrations & parades ?
"Self-serving", how so?
What do you possibly imagine I would personally get out of this?
As usual, you avoid any actual discussion of counterpoints.
Obviously mistakes were made at the local level, all sorts of mistakes. When you are prepared to castigate Trump for his repeated assurances to the country that there was nothing to worry about, based on presumably the expertise of the bloody federal government, both IC and medical experts devoted to this exact sort of national and international crisis, then we can examine the local mistakes of those with far less information.
And when you honestly compare responses between countries, we can discuss them more rationally as well. Again, all sorts of mistakes were made by many other than Trump and the US. But some did much better based on different decisions made.
Can we actually learn from those better decisions?
It's particularly annoying that there's such resistance to learning from those countries which have had repeated pandemic experiences over the years and thus have developed far swifter and coherent responses to new virus challenges.
I'm comparing the results for the US with what I consider to be the most relevant comparison -- the most populous, advanced W Euro democracies, with comparable health care systems & an apparent commitment to accurate reporting.
You chose to (again) hold up S Korea as the standard you feel we should have attained. You insist on inserting that in every discussion about the US response. That's unrealistic, for numerous reasons. Taiwan, Japan, Singapore & S Korea have recent experience dealing with other viral outbreaks & they have institutionalized their response mechanisms. I earlier posted an article explaining, in detail, S Korea's success. Those Asian nations are proving to be the exception, rather than the rule, particularly in comparison to western democracies where travel patterns & volume rapidly injected the infection. The US was hit from both directions, on both coasts -- from China & from Europe. S Korea was able to quickly identify & contain their initial outbreak hot spot & close their borders early.
But you appear to be missing the whole point, despite actually saying it.
They indeed had the 'advantage' of having been through outbreaks, so instead of ignoring or wishing away the threat they moved swiftly to contain it. THAT's what we should have done.
The strategy they employed is well known, our scientists were fully aware of it, we had planning exercises to address this challenge. But nope we fiddled and frittered the time away.
I'm fine with saying that a bunch of European countries were slow off the mark too, though they too had spread earlier than the US. We had more warning, at least in most of the US. But let's look at Germany's strategy...much closer to SK's than say France.
I asked you a question given your implication that the European countries were accurately reporting whereas others we re not.
I asked whether that included SK...as you were talking about testing, that's the best demonstrated practice example.
Or, as I pointed out, you could compare NY to France as more similar size etc. Or you could compare NY to Germany.
But it's a specious argument to compare how the US overall has done versus a much smaller, denser region, hit much earlier.
I didn't know that you owned this discussion.
Seems to me you just don't like being challenged.