Here we go again with the Face Off

[xxxxxxx]

I think the shot clock has greatly reduced the problem of facing an elite face off man, just ask UVA. I also hear that they are looking at reducing the 80 to a 60 second clock after initial possession which will also help.

No sport changes their rules like lacrosse, one day when I have time I will list 25 significant rule changes in the last 30 years. Every two years the committee feels compelled to do something major. It's like the Board at a Golf Club where every new one needs to make some change as part of their legacy, let it rest.

[Surfs_Up]

I see UVA and PENN are on the committee. Both have done well at FO and UVA has a young guy that is Elite. Why would he want to give up that advantage?

[Surfs_Up]

If that's what you want to see why not just watch wrestling that's not interrupted by a bunch of guys just throwing the ball around?

A wrestling match is 7 minutes of boredom. A faceoff, is at the absolute worst case 1 minute, but typically 5 seconds of battle. No comparison

[DMac]

So you're not a fan of the game, the stickwork, the speed, the agility, athleticism, creativity, goal tending, or any of that, just the face off. That's like saying the only part of surfing I like is when they catch the wave, the ride is just a bunch of boring BS. Can't imagine you're missing the season all that much.

[viper]

Simple change: set it up as a duel. Each specialist five yards from the ball. No long stick. Blow whistle. Good luck.

How about "back to back, take ten paces and charge back for the ball". They can rename the faceoff to "The Hamilton".

[Surfs_Up]

So you're not a fan of the game, the stickwork, the speed, the agility, athleticism, creativity, goal tending, or any of that, just the face off. That's like saying the only part of surfing I like is when they catch the wave, the ride is just a bunch of boring BS. Can't imagine you're missing the season all that much.

No, I like the game in all its entirety. I was using that as an example of why pick on one part of the game, that is equally as exciting to some people.

I really don''t think you can change the rules too much. You have kids with years of training in a way to face off. If you dramatically change it, all your FO guys are irrelevant and your recruiting just went no where. How do you recruit, what do you do with your current guys? There are certainly impacts to rule changes. Why not take long sticks out of the game? It changes dramatically right?

[smoova]

You have kids with years of training ...

The NCAA just eviscerated recruiting opportunities for two entire high school classes ... a little collateral damage to FOGOs is small potatoes for them.

[NElaxtalent]

If that's what you want to see why not just watch wrestling that's not interrupted by a bunch of guys just throwing the ball around?

+1

[QuakerSouth]

If they find a rule change necessary, can they then say it will not be implemented until year 20xx? That gives the current guys who trained a certain way their due, but new kids coming up, well, they'll have to learn the new rules.

[NElaxtalent]

I like the face off, think it adds a great element to the game as well as bringing a unique and different stick skill.

A stick skill shouldn't include picking the ball up with a tongs like grip on the ball and lifting it with a plunger like motion though.

Two guys clamping the ball down and circling in a wrestling match of sorts shouldn't happen on a lacrosse field.

+100

[Thor1]

They should also make goalie crosses smaller.

Defenders should not have 6 foot poles.

Shooters shouldn't be able to shoot the ball over 75 miles per hour

Faster players should be forced to wear weighted vests.

[shoothi]

The face off can be an exciting battle for the ground ball. Working with your wing men, understanding how you want to take on your competitor all to gain possession.

Watching two guys sumo wresting, while the wings stand around watching and poking at the ball, not to exciting.

To get the ball out quicker, its simple...allow the wing men to hit the faceoff guy. All face off men will have an internal clock, much like a qb in football, knowing how long they have to sit at the x to complete a face off move. Wings would have to learn the art of riding guys out.

Down, set, whistle blows, make your face move, get the ball out on a clean win or make it a ground ball, if not pay the price...

[youthathletics]

little argument there.....I just think the end goal, as with officiating 101, is that the advantage/disadvantage element is minimized. If they can come to agreement that it truly is a neutral battle, leave it alone.

what advantage/disadvantage? who has which?

Going early, neutral zone, leaning (different refs setup sticks inconsistently). My point is pick any game and there will an argument from a coach or form the sidelines that player X ir doing x on the face off. We all know damned near every F/O guy has either taught or sad "if you are not cheating you are not trying"...why else do they have to keep intervening with this one spot. So much so the PLL introduced and studied it for a year before they blew the first whistle.

[youthathletics]

They should also make goalie crosses smaller.

Defenders should not have 6 foot poles.

Shooters shouldn't be able to shoot the ball over 75 miles per hour

Faster players should be forced to wear weighted vests.

Is that you Greg?

[Typical Lax Dad]

I think the shot clock has greatly reduced the problem of facing an elite face off man, just ask UVA. I also hear that they are looking at reducing the 80 to a 60 second clock after initial possession which will also help.

No sport changes their rules like lacrosse, one day when I have time I will list 25 significant rule changes in the last 30 years. Every two years the committee feels compelled to do something major. It's like the Board at a Golf Club where every new one needs to make some change as part of their legacy, let it rest.

There was a change to the rule a couple of years ago and it cleaned up face-offs quite a bit. I favor leaving it alone. If any change is made, I would not allow withholding the ball from play by clamping and circling. You can’t withhold anywhere else on the field. If I change anything it would be that. Clamp and rake in one motion, fine. Clamp and circle and popped it, ball to the other team. Quick restart.

[NElaxtalent]

They should also make goalie crosses smaller.

Defenders should not have 6 foot poles.

Shooters shouldn't be able to shoot the ball over 75 miles per hour

Faster players should be forced to wear weighted vests.

Your post ignores the fact the stick heads (not simply skill) are what has made the FO so different since the Alex Smith/mid 2000s. There were certainly skillful FO guys before, but they weren't equipped with flexible tongs to extract the ball.

FO's used to GBs between FO units requiring communication & teamwork. Neither TD Ierlan or Trevor Baptist has needed an elite LSM or SS. They have dominated the FO (& a team-game) as individuals. Kudos to them but the FO balance has dramatically changed. That said, the shot clock has blunted the impact somewhat.

[Typical Lax Dad]

They should also make goalie crosses smaller.

Defenders should not have 6 foot poles.

Shooters shouldn't be able to shoot the ball over 75 miles per hour

Faster players should be forced to wear weighted vests.

Your post ignores the fact the stick heads (not simply skill) are what has made the FO so different since the Alex Smith/mid 2000s. There were certainly skillful FO guys before, but they weren't equipped with flexible tongs to extract the ball.

FO's used to GBs between FO units requiring communication & teamwork. Neither TD Ierlan or Trevor Baptist has needed an elite LSM or SS. They have dominated the FO (& a team-game) as individuals. Kudos to them but the FO balance has dramatically changed. The shot clock has blunted the impact significantly.

Yes. People forget that Kyle Harrison was one of the best face-off men in the country. There is no way he would be that good today unless he gave up field play.

[wgdsr]

little argument there.....I just think the end goal, as with officiating 101, is that the advantage/disadvantage element is minimized. If they can come to agreement that it truly is a neutral battle, leave it alone.

what advantage/disadvantage? who has which?

Going early, neutral zone, leaning (different refs setup sticks inconsistently). My point is pick any game and there will an argument from a coach or form the sidelines that player X ir doing x on the face off. We all know damned near every F/O guy has either taught or sad "if you are not cheating you are not trying"...why else do they have to keep intervening with this one spot. So much so the PLL introduced and studied it for a year before they blew the first whistle.

so it's your contention that lacrosse coaches want to change the rules because other coaches are yelling at the refs? or other guys are cheating all the time and not getting caught, but not their guys?

[kramerica.inc]

They should also make goalie crosses smaller.

Defenders should not have 6 foot poles.

Shooters shouldn't be able to shoot the ball over 75 miles per hour

Faster players should be forced to wear weighted vests.

Your post ignores the fact the stick heads (not simply skill) are what has made the FO so different since the Alex Smith/mid 2000s. There were certainly skillful FO guys before, but they weren't equipped with flexible tongs to extract the ball.

FO's used to GBs between FO units requiring communication & teamwork. Neither TD Ierlan or Trevor Baptist has needed an elite LSM or SS. They have dominated the FO (& a team-game) as individuals. Kudos to them but the FO balance has dramatically changed. The shot clock has blunted the impact significantly.

+1

As a faceoff coach, I would love to get rid of the Moto.

The moto allows too much cheating and gaming the system. If you go to Over under, the good kids will still be good. It just wont allow them to be 75% good. Just 60-65% good.

Simplifying the rules back to over/under grip and spreading the sticks apart by an extra inch on either side will make a lot more kids willing to try it (see kyle harrison and other athletic two-way middies), make the faceoffs closer to a 50/50 game, and make it easier to officiate.

[wgdsr]

They should also make goalie crosses smaller.

Defenders should not have 6 foot poles.

Shooters shouldn't be able to shoot the ball over 75 miles per hour

Faster players should be forced to wear weighted vests.

Your post ignores the fact the stick heads (not simply skill) are what has made the FO so different since the Alex Smith/mid 2000s. There were certainly skillful FO guys before, but they weren't equipped with flexible tongs to extract the ball.

FO's used to GBs between FO units requiring communication & teamwork. Neither TD Ierlan or Trevor Baptist has needed an elite LSM or SS. They have dominated the FO (& a team-game) as individuals. Kudos to them but the FO balance has dramatically changed. That said, the shot clock has blunted the impact somewhat.

so why not move the wings in 5-7 yards? not everyone (unless i'm alone) agrees with you that faceoff guys couldn't win the ball to themselves before now.