All things Chinese CoronaVirus

[6ftstick]

Naaahhhhhhh we're not losing any freedoms in this coronavirus overreaction

https://www.foxnews.com/us/la-city-coun ... ndeer-them

LA city council votes to name hotels that refuse to house homeless, may 'commandeer' them

[a fan]

You mean like overreacting to a perceived threat, and taking someone's private property to build a border wall through their land that we don't really need?

Naaah. Only libs would do such a thing, Six.

[Peter Brown]

Naaahhhhhhh we're not losing any freedoms in this coronavirus overreaction

https://www.foxnews.com/us/la-city-coun ... ndeer-them

LA city council votes to name hotels that refuse to house homeless, may 'commandeer' them

Unreal. I can not believe any of you live in blue states...total wackjobs running the asylum. Time for a revolution.

[6ftstick]

You mean like overreacting to a perceived threat, and taking someone's private property to build a border wall through their land that we don't really need?

Naaah. Only libs would do such a thing, Six.

Trump Trump Trump

evil republican.

Allows you to completely overlook and ignore confiscating previously profitable businesses and virtue signaling them as unsympathetic.

You got any empty space in your warehouse. The city wants to stuff some homeless folks in there Permanently

[6ftstick]

Naaahhhhhhh we're not losing any freedoms in this coronavirus overreaction

https://www.foxnews.com/us/la-city-coun ... ndeer-them

LA city council votes to name hotels that refuse to house homeless, may 'commandeer' them

Unreal. I can not believe any of you live in blue states...total wackjobs running the asylum. Time for a revolution.

A Ritz Carlton on the list.

[Peter Brown]

Naaahhhhhhh we're not losing any freedoms in this coronavirus overreaction

https://www.foxnews.com/us/la-city-coun ... ndeer-them

LA city council votes to name hotels that refuse to house homeless, may 'commandeer' them

Unreal. I can not believe any of you live in blue states...total wackjobs running the asylum. Time for a revolution.

A Ritz Carlton on the list.

Move to Florida and protect your private property. Let the blue states fail. You can't always abide by Democrat demands to ruin your life.

[a fan]

You mean like overreacting to a perceived threat, and taking someone's private property to build a border wall through their land that we don't really need?

Naaah. Only libs would do such a thing, Six.

Trump Trump Trump

evil republican.

Allows you to completely overlook and ignore confiscating previously profitable businesses and virtue signaling them as unsympathetic.

You got any empty space in your warehouse. The city wants to stuff some homeless folks in there Permanently

Dude. You're not paying attention.

I'm complaining about BOTH Trump's wall, AND the idea of FORCING a hotel to house people.

You boys care to explain why you're ok with one and not the other? I'd wager not.

Both are legal, btw. Eminent Domain......

[CU88]

You mean like overreacting to a perceived threat, and taking someone's private property to build a border wall through their land that we don't really need?

Naaah. Only libs would do such a thing, Six.

Trump Trump Trump

evil republican.

Allows you to completely overlook and ignore confiscating previously profitable businesses and virtue signaling them as unsympathetic.

You got any empty space in your warehouse. The city wants to stuff some homeless folks in there Permanently

Predictable meaningless response...

[ggait]

coronavirus overreaction

Six -- so what would be an appropriate reaction in your view?

Do nothing -- 1 million USA deaths?

Do what we are currently doing -- 134k USA deaths?

Do whatever equals 250k/500k/750k USA deaths?

What's your number? I don't think I've ever seen you say what the "right" thing to do is.

Honest question. So please answer.

Personally, I think 200k is an acceptable number for deaths that are concentrated in the older/sicker population.

[kramerica.inc]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov- ... -home.html

That was the plan all along- shelter in place, “flatten the curve” Make sure there are beds available in hospitals.

The US has largely done that.

Essential workers have gotten it and developed herd immunity. It’s time for those who were staying home
to get it.

Have essential workers actually developed 'herd immunity'?
Could you provide some data on that?

I read this a little differently.
Sounds to me that despite trying to stay away from the virus some folks haven't been able to completely do so and it has sent them into the hospital, some to die.

What will happen when all those start actually not trying to stay away?

The demographic data appears to suggest that where the virus has struck hardest among those attempting to stay away is in communities with high % of essential workers who bring it home or into their proximate, dense communities. Lower income workers especially.

So the point of social isolation was to ensure our hospitals and respources werent overwhelmed. A major wave has gone through. We've "flattened the curve." Hospitals have capacity. States are reopening. Time to move on.

That's not to say many more people won't get sick, and more people won't die. But unfortunately, that's life. Just like there are risks out there with a million other things in the world- car accidents, seasonal flu, smoking.

If you want to lessen your chances, take precautions- wear a seatbelt, get a flu vaccine, don't smoke. But still bad things happen.

Want to improve your chances of NOT getting Corona? Limit large crowds, wear a mask, wash your hands. But bad things still happen. You can't live in fear forever.

I am not sure I have read anywhere that the plan was to shut down until a vaccine was found. The Trump Administration has provided guidelines for re-engaging and local governments had issued advisories as well. I am not sure a single recommendation was shelter in place until a vaccine is found or until everyone can be tested weekly. If so, provide a link.

That was not the plan, but that is how the mentality has shifted and it is the messaging the ms media is still reporting.

[kramerica.inc]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov- ... -home.html

That was the plan all along- shelter in place, “flatten the curve” Make sure there are beds available in hospitals.

The US has largely done that.

Essential workers have gotten it and developed herd immunity. It’s time for those who were staying home
to get it.

Have essential workers actually developed 'herd immunity'?
Could you provide some data on that?

I read this a little differently.
Sounds to me that despite trying to stay away from the virus some folks haven't been able to completely do so and it has sent them into the hospital, some to die.

What will happen when all those start actually not trying to stay away?

The demographic data appears to suggest that where the virus has struck hardest among those attempting to stay away is in communities with high % of essential workers who bring it home or into their proximate, dense communities. Lower income workers especially.

So the point of social isolation was to ensure our hospitals and respources werent overwhelmed. A major wave has gone through. We've "flattened the curve." Hospitals have capacity. States are reopening. Time to move on.

That's not to say many more people won't get sick, and more people won't die. But unfortunately, that's life. Just like there are risks out there with a million other things in the world- car accidents, seasonal flu, smoking.

If you want to lessen your chances, take precautions- wear a seatbelt, get a flu vaccine, don't smoke. But still bad things happen.

Want to improve your chances of NOT getting Corona? Limit large crowds, wear a mask, wash your hands. But bad things still happen. You can't live in fear forever.

I am not sure I have read anywhere that the plan was to shut down until a vaccine was found. The Trump Administration has provided guidelines for re-engaging and local governments had issued advisories as well. I am not sure a single recommendation was shelter in place until a vaccine is found or until everyone can be tested weekly. If so, provide a link.

Its kinda irrelevant now that the CDC has shelved the guidelines for re-opening that they spent weeks developing

https://apnews.com/7a00d5fba3249e573d2e ... ce=Twitter

This enables the administration to shift the responsibility (and any blame) for things that might not go well onto the individual states.
Sad but typical for this crowd. Have to wonder what Drs. Birx and Fauci think of all this?

SO which is it skippy. The president doesn't have the constitutional power to order the country to reopen, its up to each individual state —which all of you were bleating just weeks ago. You even brought up the 9th and 10 the amendments to make your points. Or The President does have the power constitutionally and since he isn't he's shirking his duty.

Make up your freakin minds

The expertise is in the CDC. It would be helpful to the USA if state government had the ability to consider the judgement from the subject matter experts. Are you an educator?

[ggait]

That was not the plan, but that is how the mentality has shifted and it is the messaging the ms media is still reporting.

Kra -- what's your number. What level of deaths should we be willing to accept?

Is 200k (my target number) OK with you?

Or more? Or less? Once we have the target, then we can back into what the plan should be.

It is pretty simple. The more restrictions, the fewer deaths. The less restrictions, the more deaths. So what is the target?

We do this all the time. A 65 mph speed limit kills more people than 20 mph. And less than 100 mph. We think 65 mph is the right balance between deaths and how long it takes to get somewhere.

With Covid, doing nothing is 1 million USA deaths. Is that OK?

So again, what's your number?

[kramerica.inc]

NY was the epicenter of the Euro strain in February and California was the epicenter of the Asian Strain in December.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latime ... f_amp=true

And the euro strain came from?

[Peter Brown]

NY was the epicenter of the Euro strain in February and California was the epicenter of the Asian Strain in December.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latime ... f_amp=true

And the euro strain came from?

Based on the March posts from some here, had to be the Florida beaches.

[kramerica.inc]

That was not the plan, but that is how the mentality has shifted and it is the messaging the ms media is still reporting.

Kra -- what's your number. What level of deaths should we be willing to accept?

Is 200k (my target number) OK with you?

Or more? Or less? Once we have the target, then we can back into what the plan should be.

It is pretty simple. The more restrictions, the fewer deaths. The less restrictions, the more deaths. So what is the target?

We do this all the time. A 65 mph speed limit kills more people than 20 mph. And less than 100 mph. We think 65 mph is the right balance between deaths and how long it takes to get somewhere.

With Covid, doing nothing is 1 million USA deaths. Is that OK?

So again, what's your number?

200k is reasonable. Half a million was what I expected.

The numbers are really inconsequential at this point. It’s all about Personal responsibility and management. Off the top of your head- What are the numbers of traffic fatalities a year? Flu deaths? The smoking deaths per year?

The answer- There are 38k traffic deaths per year. 38-80k from the flu. 480k smoking deaths per year.

Avoid the risks. Protect yourself. Or don’t. And take a risk. There’s no real changing the numbers. Without personal action.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statis ... /index.htm

https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc ... hs-winter/

[cradleandshoot]

That was not the plan, but that is how the mentality has shifted and it is the messaging the ms media is still reporting.

Kra -- what's your number. What level of deaths should we be willing to accept?

Is 200k (my target number) OK with you?

Or more? Or less? Once we have the target, then we can back into what the plan should be.

It is pretty simple. The more restrictions, the fewer deaths. The less restrictions, the more deaths. So what is the target?

We do this all the time. A 65 mph speed limit kills more people than 20 mph. And less than 100 mph. We think 65 mph is the right balance between deaths and how long it takes to get somewhere.

With Covid, doing nothing is 1 million USA deaths. Is that OK?

So again, what's your number?

My wife came home from work today with her head spinning like a top. Her and her fellow nurses have spent all week trying to get up to speed on what is required of them to begin starting up outpatient procedures. They are doing colonoscopies and they might as well be doing brain surgery trying to figure out the new protocols that NYS wants them to use. The new protocol requires them to completely sanitize the room between every procedure. A typical colonoscopy takes 30 minutes. The turnover time to get the room ready for the next patient will now take 30 minutes. That includes a new requirement to empty the garbage in the room after each procedure. New PPE requirements are disposable gowns, caps, gloves, face masks and faceshields and now protective booties over their tennis shoes. Gowns have to be replaced after each procedure and SOP now is to wash and sanitize your hands after each procedure. That is todays SOP. Tomorrow morning it could all be different. Monday morning it could change yet again and so on and so forth. The only words of comfort I could give her was 2 more years and we are done working. She just has to stick it out for 2 more years. If you can laugh at it you can live with it. COVID is bad enough to have to live with. The thought of having to deal with stupid government morons is almost as bad as the threat of getting COVID.

[ggait]

200k is reasonable. Half a million was what I expected.

Kra -- thanks for answering the question that most will not.

Personally, I think 500k is way too many deaths to take. But like everything, it is a trade off.

500k USA deaths would work out to 1500 per million pop. Right now Spain is projected to get to 590; Italy 524. So your number would be almost 3X those countries. But in return, you'd get somewhat less restrictions on activity -- maybe like Sweden (1,000 projected). But you would still have to be significantly restricted (like Sweden is) to hit your number.

My number would be about the same as Italy and Spain. And we'd basically be doing about what we are doing now.

Life is about choices. But doing nothing and having low deaths is not one of the available choices...

[kramerica.inc]

Fair enough.

And don’t get me wrong. I’m not excited about “only” 200k deaths. At this point, it’s here and it’s a risk.

The “unintended consequences“ are being counted as Part of those covid deaths- people who had other underlying conditions or couldn’t get a bed due to someone else taking the spot. Those are part of the 200k numbers.

But what is being ignored are the unintended consequences of keeping people at home, people afraid to get regular treatments or needed surgeries or life-threatening ailments checked out at ERs. Cancers going undiagnosed, mental illness, depression, and of course the financial side, families and businesses in ruin. That is a risk too IMO. And a toll of covid.

I’d argue that those unintended consequences and terrible scenarios probably outnumber the worst case death scenarios. And those can be prevented by lifting restrictions and imploring people to go about their lives in a new, different and safer manner. But let them know that there are still risks.

[tech37]

Fair enough.

And don’t get me wrong. I’m not excited about “only” 200k deaths. At this point, it’s here and it’s a risk.

The “unintended consequences“ are being counted as Part of those covid deaths- people who had other underlying conditions or couldn’t get a bed due to someone else taking the spot. Those are part of the 200k numbers.

But what is being ignored are the unintended consequences of keeping people at home, people afraid to get regular treatments or needed surgeries or life-threatening ailments checked out at ERs. Cancers going undiagnosed, mental illness, depression, and of course the financial side, families and businesses in ruin. That is a risk too IMO. And a toll of covid.

I’d argue that those unintended consequences and terrible scenarios probably outnumber the worst case death scenarios. And those can be prevented by lifting restrictions and imploring people to go about their lives in a new, different and safer manner. But let them know that there are still risks.

+1

[a fan]

Fair enough.

And don’t get me wrong. I’m not excited about “only” 200k deaths. At this point, it’s here and it’s a risk.

The “unintended consequences“ are being counted as Part of those covid deaths- people who had other underlying conditions or couldn’t get a bed due to someone else taking the spot. Those are part of the 200k numbers.

But what is being ignored are the unintended consequences of keeping people at home, people afraid to get regular treatments or needed surgeries or life-threatening ailments checked out at ERs. Cancers going undiagnosed, mental illness, depression, and of course the financial side, families and businesses in ruin. That is a risk too IMO. And a toll of covid.

I’d argue that those unintended consequences and terrible scenarios probably outnumber the worst case death scenarios. And those can be prevented by lifting restrictions and imploring people to go about their lives in a new, different and safer manner. But let them know that there are still risks.

+1

+2

It sucks all around, and there are no right moves, given the lack of testing. Hopefully, two things happen.

1. Testing catches up. Testing helps let us know how deadly the disease is.
2. This virus is far more contagious than we thought, and therefore it's far less deadly than we thought...and places like Italy and NY simply got hit all at once.