All things Chinese CoronaVirus

[kramerica.inc]

Has Sweden got it right?

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-52395866

[seacoaster]

Oh boy.

https://time.com/5827450/who-coronaviru ... d=tcoshare

"Catching COVID-19 once may not protect you from getting it again, according to the World Health Organization, a finding that could jeopardize efforts to allow people to return to work after recovering from the virus.

“There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection,” the United Nations agency said in an April 24 statement.

The WHO guidance came after some governments suggested that people who have antibodies to the coronavirus could be issued an “immunity passport” or “risk-free certificate” that would allow them to travel or return to work, based on the assumption that they were safe from re-infection, according to the statement. People issued such a certificate could ignore public-health guidance, increasing the risk of the disease spreading further.

Chile was the first country to announce plans to issue immunity cards based partly on antibody tests. This has raised concerns because the tests have proven unreliable elsewhere, and some people may get deliberately ill in order to obtain the card. The U.S. and others have nonetheless said they’re looking into the option.

While there’s a consensus that the key to ending the coronavirus pandemic is establishing co-called herd immunity, there are many unknowns. One is whether researchers can develop a safe and effective vaccine. Another is how long people who’ve recovered have immunity; reinfection after months or years is common with other human coronaviruses. Finally, it’s not clear what percentage of people must be immune to protect the “herd.” That depends on the contagiousness of the virus.

The WHO said it’s reviewing the scientific evidence on antibody responses to coronavirus, but as yet no study has evaluated whether the presence of antibodies “confers immunity to subsequent infection by this virus in humans.” And while many countries are currently testing for antibodies, these studies aren’t designed to determine whether people recovered from the disease acquire immunity, the agency said."

[cradleandshoot]

I’m a right wing delusional? Damn I get accused By Cradle, OS and Peter Brown-eye of being something liberal pole smoker and now you’re weak sauce is coming my way?

You’re a Fng clown. You just complain like a little baby. You give reasonable discourse as bad of a name as bandito. Same dump just other side.

How about you man up and stand on your own two feet instead of being a whiny gimp who has to say “he did it first” like a dumbass pre school girl? That’s some gilded soft stuff.

Talk talk talk. I doubt you are anything but a fragilista who claims others as your own.

Farfrom you don't understand the term I frequently use, FLP. That is a Far Left Progressive. IMO that is a person who stands as far to the left politically and ideologically as is possible. There is absolutely nothing wrong in having views that are FLP. That is the beauty of living in a free country. You can believe what you want to believe. I have been accused numerous times on these boards of being a far right wing nut job. I am a political dinosaur. The strongest political position I have is being a fiscal conservative. The opinion of some folks around here that makes me a far right wing radical basket case. I am bothered by the extremist positions of both the far right and the far left. IMO the far right wants religion to save me while the far left wants government to save me.

I am more troubled by the FLP point of view. I am free to ignore any religious point of view. I can't ignore an ever increasing attempt at government to control every aspect of my life. There are folks on these boards who disagree with me strongly. I tend to disagree right back at them. I do not care personally what your political perspective is. If I disagree on a certain point of view, I will speak out. If you disagree with me, i equally as well hope you call me out. That is why this forum is fun to read. I can read the opinions of others who disagree. How boring would it be if we all just agreed on everything in perfect harmony. That would be flat out BORING.

[Farfromgeneva]

I just had you pegged as a guy who is pissed until he gets his two cups of coffee and the paperboy delivers the daily in a proper manner as instructed. Much less about politics than having reduced tolerance for people.

Also never even asked what FLP was, figured it was something harsher like Flighty Liberal Punanni. Basically ignore these acronyms in general.

[cradleandshoot]

I just had you pegged as a guy who is ticked until he gets his two cups of coffee and the paperboy delivers the daily in a proper manner as instructed. Much less about politics than having reduced tolerance for people.

Also never even asked what FLP was, figured it was something harsher like Flighty Liberal Punanni. Basically ignore these acronyms in general.

"I just had you pegged as a guy who is ticked until he gets his two cups of coffee and the paperboy delivers the daily in a proper manner as instructed. Much less about politics than having reduced tolerance for people."

You have me pegged right about the 2 cups of coffee and my morning news paper. The only instructions or request I have for my paper lady is to try and deliver the paper before I go to work. Since I am laid off that is no big deal anymore. I do have a reduced tolerance for people. In my neighborhood I walk as much as I can and always have a cheerful greeting for people. Today most folks will not respond to a good morning greeting. I try less and less to talk to anybody. It bothers me when people just ignore you like your not even there. My wife calls it "anti social distancing"

[Peter Brown]

I just had you pegged as a guy who is ticked until he gets his two cups of coffee and the paperboy delivers the daily in a proper manner as instructed. Much less about politics than having reduced tolerance for people.

Also never even asked what FLP was, figured it was something harsher like Flighty Liberal Punanni. Basically ignore these acronyms in general.

"I just had you pegged as a guy who is ticked until he gets his two cups of coffee and the paperboy delivers the daily in a proper manner as instructed. Much less about politics than having reduced tolerance for people."

You have me pegged right about the 2 cups of coffee and my morning news paper. The only instructions or request I have for my paper lady is to try and deliver the paper before I go to work. Since I am laid off that is no big deal anymore. I do have a reduced tolerance for people. In my neighborhood I walk as much as I can and always have a cheerful greeting for people. Today most folks will not respond to a good morning greeting. I try less and less to talk to anybody. It bothers me when people just ignore you like your not even there. My wife calls it "anti social distancing"

Lol, I always thought FLP was 'FanLax Progressive". Shows you what happens when you don't ask the obvious questions!

FTR, I find Cradle to be about the most sane person on these boards, and FarfromGeneva not too far behind but perhaps a tad too sympathetic to the libs!!!

[Peter Brown]

I have always said that California is a not a lost cause for Republicans.

Here's the deal on CA: too many elite libs in SF and LA have overwhelmed the actual working class, opening the door to voting fraud.

https://www.ktvu.com/news/loophole-coul ... y-election

But the state is full of hard-working Republicans who are sick and tired of paying the taxes. Heck even golfers hate California taxes:

https://www.businessinsider.com/phil-mi ... nia-2013-1

So to my immense satisfaction, the authoritarian gestapo's from the Dem's, mostly Mayors Garcetti and Breed, but also Governor Newsom, are beginning to taste their deserved come-uppance.

Go California normals!!!!

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... home-order

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/ar ... 219432.php

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... port-beach

Does 'Trump' now stand for freedom?

[Farfromgeneva]

I just had you pegged as a guy who is ticked until he gets his two cups of coffee and the paperboy delivers the daily in a proper manner as instructed. Much less about politics than having reduced tolerance for people.

Also never even asked what FLP was, figured it was something harsher like Flighty Liberal Punanni. Basically ignore these acronyms in general.

"I just had you pegged as a guy who is ticked until he gets his two cups of coffee and the paperboy delivers the daily in a proper manner as instructed. Much less about politics than having reduced tolerance for people."

You have me pegged right about the 2 cups of coffee and my morning news paper. The only instructions or request I have for my paper lady is to try and deliver the paper before I go to work. Since I am laid off that is no big deal anymore. I do have a reduced tolerance for people. In my neighborhood I walk as much as I can and always have a cheerful greeting for people. Today most folks will not respond to a good morning greeting. I try less and less to talk to anybody. It bothers me when people just ignore you like your not even there. My wife calls it "anti social distancing"

I constantly think about the fact I should do better but do at least a consistent head nod, half smile, murmur hi/hello. Probably better than a lot of folks but lots of room for improvement in my part.

[Farfromgeneva]

I just had you pegged as a guy who is ticked until he gets his two cups of coffee and the paperboy delivers the daily in a proper manner as instructed. Much less about politics than having reduced tolerance for people.

Also never even asked what FLP was, figured it was something harsher like Flighty Liberal Punanni. Basically ignore these acronyms in general.

"I just had you pegged as a guy who is ticked until he gets his two cups of coffee and the paperboy delivers the daily in a proper manner as instructed. Much less about politics than having reduced tolerance for people."

You have me pegged right about the 2 cups of coffee and my morning news paper. The only instructions or request I have for my paper lady is to try and deliver the paper before I go to work. Since I am laid off that is no big deal anymore. I do have a reduced tolerance for people. In my neighborhood I walk as much as I can and always have a cheerful greeting for people. Today most folks will not respond to a good morning greeting. I try less and less to talk to anybody. It bothers me when people just ignore you like your not even there. My wife calls it "anti social distancing"

Lol, I always thought FLP was 'FanLax Progressive". Shows you what happens when you don't ask the obvious questions!

FTR, I find Cradle to be about the most sane person on these boards, and FarfromGeneva not too far behind but perhaps a tad too sympathetic to the libs!!!

I like people. Try to give them the benefit of the doubt and stand in their shoes as much as possible. My view is we all exist in an absurd human condition first and foremost and care less about borders and arbitrary senses of sovereignty. Have an Irish short temper and have to say the (your) stock market cheerleading grates on me but in a technical level.

[Brooklyn]

I am more troubled by the FLP point of view. I am free to ignore any religious point of view. I can't ignore an ever increasing attempt at government to control every aspect of my life. There are folks on these boards who disagree with me strongly. I tend to disagree right back at them. I do not care personally what your political perspective is. If I disagree on a certain point of view, I will speak out. If you disagree with me, i equally as well hope you call me out. That is why this forum is fun to read. I can read the opinions of others who disagree. How boring would it be if we all just agreed on everything in perfect harmony. That would be flat out BORING.

Funny how right wingers cry "socialism" and condemn big government but are the first ones to embrace both when their sorry a$$es get into trouble:


Coronavirus has made Trump a socialist. He needs big government to save our economy.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 983135001/



Throwing around the term 'socialism' as an evil system misses the point about the essential role of government in a crisis like the coronavirus.



President Donald Trump and his Republican allies are demonizing presumptive Democratic opponent Joe Biden as a left-wing socialist who would propel big government to take over our free enterprise system at the expense of our prosperity and freedom. When Biden was endorsed Monday by Sen. Bernie Sanders, who actually is a self-described democratic socialist, Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale called it “further proof that … Biden had to adopt most of Bernie’s agenda to be successful in the Democrat primaries.”

Well, guess what? Trump has adopted much of Sanders’ agenda as well.

The coronavirus pandemic has prompted him to embrace the biggest economic role for the U.S. government since World War II to keep the economy from collapsing. And if the health crisis continues much longer, the federal government’s management of the economy will reach unprecedented levels comparable to, that’s right, socialist governments in Europe.

Trillions approved and more to come
As private spending and lending nosedive because of stay-at-home orders nationwide, Washington is filling the void. The Federal Reserve is paying banks an astonishing estimated $5.5 trillion to stabilize the financial system, help struggling states and cities and encourage banks to make emergency loans to keep shuttered businesses from going bankrupt. And Congress has approved $2.3 trillion in emergency relief on top of its 2020 budget of $4.8 trillion. Talks already are underway for another relief package in the hundreds of billions of dollars. So Uncle Sam is committing to spend $7.1 trillion with more to come.

Many economists predict that the continuation of the coronavirus crisis will shrink the $21.7 trillion U.S. economy by as much as a third, or $7 trillion, this year. That makes the math jaw-dropping: In a $14 trillion economy, the federal government will account for more than half of all spending for the first time in the nation’s history. And that doesn’t even count the spending of state and local governments, which in 2017 accounted for 13.8% of gross domestic product.

4 union leaders:Coronavirus is a stress test for capitalism, and we see encouraging signs


We are now in the same company as countries such as France, Finland and Denmark, whose big-spending governments have a tradition of government-run health care, largely free higher education, generous worker safety nets, and subsidies for airlines and other critical industries.

Consider some of the ways the massive relief bill interjects government control over our economy:

►The government is making direct payments to families and (to prevent employee layoffs) to businesses as well —mirroring the socialist safety net policies common throughout Europe.

►The Treasury and Federal Reserve have established guidelines and funds to force private banks to make emergency loans to companies facing bankruptcy.

President Donald Trump leaves the White House briefing room on April 13, 2020.
►In return for multibillion dollar grants to beleaguered airlines, the government is setting rules that limit airline executives’ pay and is expected to insist on special stock that makes it a part owner of the airlines.

►Companies getting government loans would be barred from using the funds to buy back their own stock. After benefiting from a tax cut in 2017, U.S. companies spent a record $806 billion in 2018 and were estimated to spend $710 billion in 2019 to purchase their own stock rather than use the money to invest in their business, reward workers or save money for emergencies such as this one. Stock buybacks increased share prices, which meant more wealth for shareholders and executives who received shares as bonuses. Workers got meager raises.


►The federal government is playing a greater role in our health care system with grants to hospitals to pay for virus victims who lack insurance or are underinsured. It’s an ad hoc move toward Sanders’ “Medicare for All” proposal that Trump says is too extreme and expensive.

►Trump invoked the Korean War-era Defense Production Act to require General Motors to increase production of ventilators for coronavirus patients.

Government is vital in health crisis
These all seem like sensible and absolutely necessary policies to stabilize our economy when we face a wartime mobilization to combat a virulent virus rather than a hostile nation. Politicians from the left to the right have embraced them with nary an objection.

Ex-GOPer on Trump coronavirus failures:Our lives depend on electing Joe Biden

There’s an important lesson in this for us: Throwing around the term “socialism” as an evil system misses the point about the essential role of government in a crisis. We are not in danger of moving toward the kind of totalitarian socialism practiced in North Korea, where a tyrannical government controls all economic activity, or in China, where private enterprise can flourish only under tightly controlled supervision by the central government.

Rather, socialist-leaning policies in a democratic society can be popular and beneficial — not just in emergency times — if they have the support of the majority of the population. Polls in the United States consistently show a consensus for universal health care coverage, free college education and a stronger safety net for workers.

This health crisis reminds us that big government is the last resort to save our economy and free-enterprise system. Let’s remember that the next time a Trump tweet demonizes “socialism.”

Owen Ullmann, a former senior editor at USA TODAY, is executive editor of The International Economy magazine. He has covered economics since the 1970s. Follow him on Twitter: @OUllmann






FLP? Laughable.
Right wing delusionalism - that's a reality.
Right wing crybabies always condemn proposed reforms that offer to counter the mess they create. Then, when a crisis arises because of the use of right wing ideology, those delusionals are the first ones to embrace the reforms they condemned just minutes before. It's a form of Orwellian double think which shows the limitations and failings of ultra right wing ideology.

[Brooklyn]

Tony Bennett wears mask while "singing" I Left My Heart in San Francisco:

[Matnum PI]

https://www.newyorker.com/science/medic ... oronavirus

[RedFromMI]

https://www.newyorker.com/science/medic ... oronavirus

Test, trace, isolate/quarantine. Basic summary. Get R (infection rate per person) to less than 1 and the disease dies.

[RedFromMI]

U.S. deaths soared in early weeks of pandemic, far exceeding number attributed to covid-19

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... rc404=true

In the early weeks of the coronavirus epidemic, the United States recorded an estimated 15,400 excess deaths, nearly two times as many as were publicly attributed to covid-19 at the time, according to an analysis of federal data conducted for The Washington Post by a research team led by the Yale School of Public Health.

The excess deaths — the number beyond what would normally be expected for that time of year — occurred during March and through April 4, a time when 8,128 coronavirus deaths were reported.

The excess deaths are not necessarily attributable directly to covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus. They could include people who died because of the epidemic but not from the disease, such as those who were afraid to seek medical treatment for unrelated illnesses, as well as some number of deaths that are part of the ordinary variation in the death rate. The count is also affected by increases or decreases in other categories of deaths, such as suicides, homicides and motor vehicle accidents.

The analysis also suggests that the death toll from the pandemic is significantly higher than has been reported, said Daniel Weinberger, a Yale professor of epidemiology and the leader of the research team. As of Sunday, more than 54,000 people had been killed by the novel coronavirus, according to numbers reported by state health departments and compiled by The Post.

“It’s really important to get the right numbers to inform policymakers so they can understand how the epidemic is evolving and how severe it is in different places,” Weinberger said.

Screenshot_2020-04-27 U S deaths soared in early weeks of pandemic, far exceeding number attributed to covid-19.png (75.87 KiB) Viewed 1726 times

[a fan]

But the state is full of hard-working Republicans who are sick and tired of paying the taxes.

Notice you didn't say "sick and tired of all those government services"???

The heart of the problem. You boys LOVE the services, subsidies, handouts and tax breaks, and don't want to pay for them.

That sound like the attitude of an adult, or a 5 year old that just wet their pants and wants an ice cream cone from mommy?


Until your team grows up, and insists on paying for what they get? We're stuck.

[Peter Brown]

Sheltering in place decreases your immune system.

Viruses and bacteria get in your body from day 1 and your immune systems develop: Immunology and Microbiology 101.

Our immune system is used to touching and tasting and breathing in viruses and bacteria. When you take that way (by sheltering in place), your immune system decreases...you need immunity to survive.

The peak has been reached. If you have a normal functioning immune system and are healthy, there is 0 risk of dying on this virus. When you start trading viruses and bacteria after a period of sheltering in place, diseases will spike; the shorter this period (to allow for hospitals to gear up...again, this has been done), the better off everyone is.

Back to work!!

[CU88]

But the state is full of hard-working Republicans who are sick and tired of paying the taxes.

Notice you didn't say "sick and tired of all those government services"???

The heart of the problem. You boys LOVE the services, subsidies, handouts and tax breaks, and don't want to pay for them.

That sound like the attitude of an adult, or a 5 year old that just wet their pants and wants an ice cream cone from mommy?


Until your team grows up, and insists on paying for what they get? We're stuck.

a Fan, you have the patience of Job

[a fan]

My very favorite story in the Bible, thank you!

I'm convinced that if you can get FoxNation into a room for a full day, and put a competent speaker in front of them that explains how the American government and the American economy works.....every one of them will realize that their ideas of how America works is built on sand, and they need to act more like their fathers did.

They CLAIM to want to go back to the 50's, in terms of economic structure.....but they have ZERO interest in actually doing that. High Taxes for the rich, modestly high taxes for the upper middle class, modest taxes for the middle earners, and low taxes for the poor. Right now? Everyone is paying too little.

But above all else? Corporations and other businesses pay the lionshare of State taxes. I showed before the in NYState, corporations paid for half of the State budget. Today? It's at 20%, and dropping fast. This is why cradle and others living in NYState are getting screwed.

And yet both D's and R's----and R voters----cling to the idea of trickle down to this very day. It's maddening.

[Peter Brown]

My very favorite story in the Bible, thank you!

I'm convinced that if you can get FoxNation into a room for a full day, and put a competent speaker in front of them that explains how the American government and the American economy works.....every one of them will realize that their ideas of how America works is built on sand, and they need to act more like their fathers did.

They CLAIM to want to go back to the 50's, in terms of economic structure.....but they have ZERO interest in actually doing that. High Taxes for the rich, modestly high taxes for the upper middle class, modest taxes for the middle earners, and low taxes for the poor. Right now? Everyone is paying too little.

But above all else? Corporations and other businesses pay the lionshare of State taxes. I showed before the in NYState, corporations paid for half of the State budget. Today? It's at 20%, and dropping fast. This is why cradle and others living in NYState are getting screwed.

And yet both D's and R's----and R voters----cling to the idea of trickle down to this very day. It's maddening.

So incorrect, not sure if there;'s time to debate it! So a meme will need to suffice:

Simplicity.jpg (99.82 KiB) Viewed 1808 times

[jhu72]

A Virginia Preacher.