The Nation's Financial Condition

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a fan
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by a fan »

youthathletics wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:08 pm Facing furor, Ruth's Chris high-end steak chain returns $20M small-business loan

Cheryl Henry, CEO of Ruth's Hospitality Group said in a statement that the company was eligible for the funds it had applied for in order to protect employees and their families.

"We intended to repay this loan in adherence with government guidelines, but as we learned more about the funding limitations of the program and the unintended impact, we have decided to accelerate that repayment," said Henry. "It is our hope that these funds are loaned to another company to protect their employees."

A Change.org petition circulated this week demanding the chain return the funds drew over 250,000 digital signatures.
They didn't have a choice, and tried to get ahead on the PR front.

I think it worked.

With public scrutiny of the coronavirus rescue intensifying, the Treasury Department asked publicly traded companies to repay loans they received from a federal program intended to aid small businesses.



https://www.wsj.com/articles/public-com ... -z6aFfoa-Y
Farfromgeneva
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Farfromgeneva »

But it’s not news in that the day PPP was announced by end of that same day it was out certain trade groups had successfully lobbied to get restaurant chains and a few other larger businesses into the program. This was out there same day the program was announced and rolled out. I guess no one was paying attention though.

April 6th

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.co ... 1586167200
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
a fan
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by a fan »

No. They weren't. But obviously, these chains have other options for capital.

It's understandable...there's a lot of frustrated business owners out there. And they're not as sophisticated as you finance guys.

My understanding of the nuts and bolts of actual finance would likely make you chuckle, FFG. I can read a spreadsheet, and understand fundamental concepts like the time value of money, and opportunity cost....but that's really about it.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Farfromgeneva »

But it was in axios, the wapo and Wsj (probably others) that this was happening. Not just some high finance journal. Shouldn’t have blindsided folks. Also why when I see the $365mm out of $350Bn it looks like it did the job, I figured like half the money would flow to bigger businesses when the news that the lobbyists had gotten this opening for larger multi-unit retail operations. So it just seems like a win that basically 1/10th of 1% of the dough went to public companies.

Capital isn’t easy to come by though. Sure YUM Brands issues 5yr paper at 7.75% end of March but that’s considered one of the highest quality below investment grade issuers in the food service industry. A ship like DineEquity, Brinker or Darden is looking at paying 10% or more for debt which is probably higher than their ROE for the trailing 5yr period so right now there isn’t really capital available for them.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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Kismet
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Kismet »

article of the outlook for craft distilleries which I am sure will be of interest to our resident distiller here.

"Craft Distillers Were Booming. Now They Face Bust.
In recent years, sales for small liquor makers have been surging, but coronavirus has shuttered tasting rooms and disrupted distribution."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/dini ... virus.html
Farfromgeneva
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Funny side note, there this CRE weekly journal, CMA, and they discuss a ton of layoffs in the business. Capital markets lending is always pro cyclical but it's funny how millenials cry and then this happens. Some of these guys I know lost gigs in 99-01 (starting w Russia ruble default/SE asia/LTCM bleeding into tech bubble crash and LTCM), 08-10 financial crisis and now again. So a typical CMBS originator in a regional office, which is a front office gig at an investment bank, hard to get outside of Ivy's and a handful of other top schools, though a lot more proletariat than M&A or Leveraged Finance banking, expects $150MM - $400MM in production (of $5MM to $75MM type loans, the NYC national lending groups tend to originate the large loans and single borrower deals) with a rough 2.5% (point) gross margin on exit (securitization) and make $300 - $750k. Good money but not F U money in places like Atlanta, Charlotte, Chi, LA, SF, Boston and maybe one or two other regional offices. Imagine if you are a 50 something now who's had to reset with 1-3yr unemployment breaks in between and now at a point where the borrower contacts are 30-40yr old guys who you have no relationships with.

There's far tougher situations out there, but a lot of these guys travel heavily and miss their family, have varied actual lifestyles and work 60+ hour weeks. Bring me some millenials that would give up their family and other life functions, work 1.5x a 40hr week and the other requirements and then I'll cry for them. Half these guys will be working until they're 80. The other half is divorced and will die before they catch up to the last round of failure in this market. Point being is a lot of high reward jobs come with high risk. Most are worse off than my father in law who graduated from Ga Tech in 1982 and was making "only" $18k, bought private company stock in the 1950s established electrical engineering firm, business sold in late 90s to public co in roll up at stupid high EBITDA multiple, acquired by Whitney & Co PE shop a year later and sold back to mgt at half the multiple in 2006 where he now owns 7% of a company that generates on a consolidated basis around $500MM in rev and near 20% EBITDA margins with little debt and no CapEx. (he did grow up middle class, moving around and settling in HS in Bel Air, MD after stints in NJ, milford CT and Utica NY, so closer to bootstrap situation than anyone in the mother in laws family which printed confederate money, owned textile businesses and founded Furman in Greenville)

Hundreds of layoffs by Cantor Fitzgerald in response to the crisis included 10-12 members of the loan-origination team at CCRE, a Cantor unit that focuses on commercial MBS debt and bridge loans. Last week’s cuts from the lender’s New York headquarters and offices in Southern California reduced the size of that team to about 30 staffers. Among the West Coast departures were managing directors Kenneth Margala and David Pike,
director Ernie Iriarte and vice presidents Samantha Mansfield and Ian Maxwell. Apart from the originations staffers, CCRE also let go New York-based credit chief Michael Kaplan and Marcus Breuer, a managing director in California who reported to Kaplan. (FFG note, Kaplan is a moron, former CCO for DB's CMBS unit pre crisis)

Managing directors Walker Brown and Gregory Marks, both veteran originators, were among those caught in a round of layoffs that Ladder Capital announced this week in response to the economic downturn. Brown, who worked in the REIT’s New York headquarters, plans to move back to his native Atlanta, where he was in the process of establishing an office for Ladder. Before coming aboard in 2017, Brown worked briefly at Benefit Street Partners and spent six years at CCRE. Marks signed on last November with Ladder in Philadelphia. He was previously originations chief at RAIT Financial, which he joined from Resource America in 2000. (FFG note #2, I own some RAIT preferreds that were supposed to be liquidated and get me par back minus one missed coupon payment around the time COVID hit and I'm still waiting for my cheddar)
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Peter Brown
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Peter Brown »

a fan wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:32 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:43 pm No sympathy. Go bankrupt and re-organize those pension obligations.
Gee, I wonder if this attitude is going to bite you in the behind?

Best of luck you and your fellow citizens in Florida in the coming months and years.


Do NOT bail out the pension schemes wrecking these blue states; that's all self inflicted corrupt garbage. If they are not allowed to fail, what's the incentive for these blue states to 1) change the current payouts or 2) just doing it all over again?

The corruption in these states is staggering.
seacoaster
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by seacoaster »

Interesting article. Does anyone know what to make of the oil price crater and what it means for the future?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/23/th ... tpcc=21060

"We are now facing a fourth counter-shock. Faced with the unprecedented collapse in demand due to COVID-19, talks between Russia and Saudi Arabia broke down in early March. Russia refused to limit production, and Saudi Arabia doubled down by dumping oil on global markets at steep discounts. Despite the effort to patch together an agreement on production restriction in recent weeks, the overhang of supply is massive. A fleet of up to 20 supertankers loaded with Saudi oil is bearing down on American oil ports. Even if the negative prices for oil in May were the result of technical factors in the futures market, the prices for June are also historic lows.

In inflation-adjusted terms, oil prices are similar to those last seen in the 1950s, when the Persian Gulf states were little more than clients of the oil majors, the United States and the British Empire. All of this raises the question of what the impact will be on today’s global producers.

We tend to think of oil states as rich oligarchies serviced by armies of foreign workers, and the image applies to the Gulf states. Lower prices will certainly require them to tighten their belts. In February, even before the coronavirus hit, the International Monetary Fund was warning Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates that by 2034 they would be net debtors to the rest of the world. That prediction was based on a 2020 price of $55 per barrel. At a price of $30, that timeline will shorten. And even in the Gulf there are weak links. Bahrain avoids financial crisis only through the financial patronage of Saudi Arabia. Oman is in even worse shape. Its government debt is so heavily discounted that it may soon slip into the distressed debt category. At that point it will most likely be forced to turn either to Riyadh or to the IMF for help.

The economic profile of the Gulf states is not, however, typical of most oil-producing states. Most have a much lower ratio of oil reserves to population. Many large oil exporters have large and rapidly growing populations that are hungry for consumption, social spending, subsidies, and investment. Whereas such countries as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait routinely earn more in revenue than they can sensibly invest at home, even at the height of OPEC’s power in the 1970s, the shah’s regime in Iran not only consumed all its oil revenue but used its oil assets as collateral for borrowing.

It is therefore not surprising that counter-shocks to oil prices often trigger political upheaval. The sudden shift in the terms of trade undercuts export revenues, budget stability, and growth prospects. Fiscal crises caused by falling prices limit governments’ room for domestic maneuver and force painful political choices. The dilemma of defaulting on debt owed to foreign creditors and imposing austerity on populations has been the cause of grave political crises, some with serious geopolitical consequences.

In the late 1980s, falling oil revenues undercut Mikhail Gorbachev’s efforts to reform Soviet communism, accelerating the end of the Soviet Union. Both Hugo Chávez in Venezuela and Vladimir Putin in Russia were able to rise because their predecessors failed to stabilize domestic politics in the wake of the price plunge of the late 1990s. Since 2014 the fall in oil prices has once again applied huge pressure to the regime of Chávez’s successor, Nicolás Maduro, in Caracas. While U.S. economic sanctions against Russia and Venezuela have been prominent in the news, aggressive competition from U.S. shale producers has been as important in shaping their economic fortunes.

So who is vulnerable now?

Under Putin, Russia overhauled its economic policy after the 2014 price collapse. Its budget was pared by a sustained austerity drive. When it launched the current oil price war in March by refusing to cooperate with OPEC in supply reductions, Moscow probably did not anticipate the collapse that would ensue. But Russia started with an exchange reserve of just shy of $570 billion, and due to its budgetary consolidation, it only began running up deficits once oil prices fell below $42.

Other emerging-market oil producers, by contrast, have to deal with large debt loads. Petrobras in Brazil has $78.9 billion of net debt as of the end of 2019 and one of the highest debt burdens of all oil firms. Its bonds trade at junk levels. But there have so far been few signs of panic. In Malaysia, Petronas has accounted for more than 15 percent of the government’s total revenue over the last five years. It was put on a negative outlook by Fitch. But like its government, it maintains a solid A- bond rating. These are resilient businesses with deep pockets in diversified economies.

After Venezuela, Ecuador is the Latin American oil producer facing the most urgent problems. In February 2019, it obtained a $10.2 billion loan package from a group of multilateral lenders led by the IMF. But to unlock this funding it had to push through painful reforms. By last October, the government’s plans to abolish fuel subsidies had to be halted because of enormous popular protests. Ecuador was already in this unstable condition when the oil price shock hit. This weekend, the government announced it had agreed with investors to delay $800 million in interest payments on its $65 billion foreign debt. This means that Ecuador is the second Latin American country after Argentina to enter technical default this year.

Populous middle-income countries that depend critically on oil are uniquely vulnerable. Iran is a special case because of the punitive sanctions regime imposed by the United States. But its neighbor Iraq, with a population of 38 million and a government budget that is 90 percent dependent on oil, will struggle to keep civil servants paid. Not paying the state administration is a recipe for instability at a time when the country is the theater of a shadow war between Washington and Tehran.

Populous middle-income countries that depend critically on oil are uniquely vulnerable.

In North Africa, Algeria—with a population of 44 million and an official unemployment rate of 15 percent—depends on oil and gas imports for 85 percent of its foreign exchange revenue. In the late 1980s, the oil shock triggered by Saudi Arabia wreaked havoc in Algeria, destabilizing its state-dominated economy. As harsh austerity measures were implemented, the Islamic Salvation Front grew as the main organization opposition to the National Liberation Front regime. When the Algerian military denied the Islamists their electoral victory in 1991 it unleashed a civil war that raged until 2002 and cost an estimated 150,000 lives.

The oil and gas boom of the early 2000s provided the financial foundation for the subsequent pacification of Algerian society under National Liberation Front President Abdelaziz Bouteflika. Algeria’s giant military, the basic pillar of the regime, was the chief beneficiaries of this largesse, along with its Russian arms suppliers. The country’s foreign currency reserves peaked at $200 billion in 2012. Spending this windfall on assistance programs and subsidies allowed Bouteflika’s government to survive the initial wave of protests during the Arab Spring. But with oil prices trending down, this was not a sustainable long-run course. By 2018 the government’s oil stabilization fund, which once held reserves worth more than one-third of GDP, had been depleted. Given Algeria’s yawning trade deficit, the IMF expects reserves to fall below $13 billion in 2021. A strict COVID-19 lockdown is containing popular protest for now, but given that the fragile government in Algiers is now bracing for budget cuts of 30 percent, do not expect that calm to last."
Farfromgeneva
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Talked to a close friend from childhood who's in SA working for the US DOD and he told me Russia and SA were of the same mind on this oil war presented as between the two countries as more aligned in trying to crush our Bakken shale and Permian Basin E&P sectors. News has pitted Russia against SA in this dispute but not the case apparently. Our boy Putin, someone irrelevant to Old Salt (had to, you've got it in your tagline), has apparently been hanging around the hoop of MBS' hood a lot of late.

Only thing is as I posted a while back, the largest integrated energy co's like XOM and CVX have been buying debt of the smaller and higher cost producers at huge discounts, which would ultimately lower the basis to extract and therefor not help this effort of our friends in SA and the Kremlin.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Peter Brown wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:24 am
a fan wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:32 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:43 pm No sympathy. Go bankrupt and re-organize those pension obligations.
Gee, I wonder if this attitude is going to bite you in the behind?

Best of luck you and your fellow citizens in Florida in the coming months and years.


Do NOT bail out the pension schemes wrecking these blue states; that's all self inflicted corrupt garbage. If they are not allowed to fail, what's the incentive for these blue states to 1) change the current payouts or 2) just doing it all over again?

The corruption in these states is staggering.
yup, the pandemic is a result of their Dem corruption.
Obviously.

Same for those hotel and airline companies, it's their fault.
After all, without airlines the virus couldn't have come here...

As you keep digging this hole, just understand that at some point the net positive federal tax states will say, ok, we declare bankruptcy and no more taxes to the FEDs, we'll align with each other instead regionally.

You'll be sending a lot more of your money to Alabama.

Of course, it won't come to that as we're not actually IDIOTS.
a fan
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by a fan »

Peter Brown wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:24 am Do NOT bail out the pension schemes wrecking these blue states; that's all self inflicted corrupt garbage. If they are not allowed to fail, what's the incentive for these blue states to 1) change the current payouts or 2) just doing it all over again?

The corruption in these states is staggering.
:lol: So when NYSTate sends a couple hundred Billion to the Federal government over what they take in from the Federal government....

....And Kentucky TAKES OUT a couple hundred Billion per year from the Federal Government more than they put in....


.....in your world, that's not corruption? That's not NYState enabling corruption in Kentucky? That's not Kentucky living above its means.

Keep playing these games. At some point, Dems will take back Congress and the White House. And they'll remember stunts like the one you and McConnell pull.
Peter Brown
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Peter Brown »

a fan wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:28 am
Peter Brown wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:24 am Do NOT bail out the pension schemes wrecking these blue states; that's all self inflicted corrupt garbage. If they are not allowed to fail, what's the incentive for these blue states to 1) change the current payouts or 2) just doing it all over again?

The corruption in these states is staggering.
:lol: So when NYSTate sends a couple hundred Billion to the Federal government over what they take in from the Federal government....

....And Kentucky TAKES OUT a couple hundred Billion per year from the Federal Government more than they put in....


.....in your world, that's not corruption? That's not NYState enabling corruption in Kentucky? That's not Kentucky living above its means.

Keep playing these games. At some point, Dems will take back Congress and the White House. And they'll remember stunts like the one you and McConnell pull.


never realized I had that much power! :lol:

Trust me, the SEC conference states could not care less if the blue's would stop sending money to the feds.
a fan
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by a fan »

:lol: Uhhh. Where do you think SEC schools get their operating capital? And where do students get the money to attend?

You just move from one place of ignorance to the next.

I'll give you this much: the SEC citizens have NO IDEA where their money comes from.....outside of GA and Texas.

Last I checked, the University of Alabama was getting a half a billion dollars a year from the Federal government. ;)
Farfromgeneva
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Farfromgeneva »

I know a lot of UGA funds comes from the state lottery. Take it from the indigent and give it to lawyers kids (can name numerous examples of this).

Lottery does fund “free” pre K in the state too though which is good.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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holmes435
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by holmes435 »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:05 pm I know a lot of UGA funds comes from the state lottery. Take it from the indigent and give it to lawyers kids (can name numerous examples of this).

Lottery does fund “free” pre K in the state too though which is good.
Georgia was facing a brain drain - Georgia Tech was (still is) one of the top engineering schools in the country, but the smart Georgia kids were either going there, Emory, or heading out of state for better schools. UGA and a lot of other state schools weren't doing so well in the rankings, so they gave everyone a free ride if you had a 3.0 high school GPA and kept it in college (think that's increased a bit since then). It kept a lot more of the smart kids in-state and really increased the competitiveness of the state schools outside of GT. UGA, GSU and others have risen quite a bit since they put that program in.

It's an interesting program, and definitely has its downsides as you mention.

From what I could find, it looks like Georgia universities get more than $1.5B just in Federal research funding (most of that unsurprisingly goes to GT) - https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=12015 - There's lots of additional federal funding coming in other ways, such as Federal tuition grants to students that then go to the schools.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Farfromgeneva »

I know Tech does a lot of high level aerospace, engineering and military related research. UGA is still a bunch of doofy bulldogs to me. People in state treat it like it’s on par w UVA and UNC so it’s beyond obnoxious while they’ll never win another national championship in football and whine about all the ones being one by every single adjacent state even including that one UT got after Peyton Manning left.

Mercer isn’t a bad school either though Macon makes towns like Gainesville and Chattanooga (home to a UT but also Suwanee, formerly University of the South) seem like Shangri La.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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RedFromMI
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by RedFromMI »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:15 pm I know Tech does a lot of high level aerospace, engineering and military related research. UGA is still a bunch of doofy bulldogs to me. People in state treat it like it’s on par w UVA and UNC so it’s beyond obnoxious while they’ll never win another national championship in football and whine about all the ones being one by every single adjacent state even including that one UT got after Peyton Manning left.

Mercer isn’t a bad school either though Macon makes towns like Gainesville and Chattanooga (home to a UT but also Suwanee, formerly University of the South) seem like Shangri La.
Suwanee is not exactly in Chattanooga - a good 52 mile drive from downtown...(my brother lives fairly close to Suwanee in between Estill Springs and Winchester).
Farfromgeneva
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Feels like it’s just up the mountain every time I drive through on I75 but I have spent a lot of time driving throughout almost all of the states East of the Mississippi for business.

Point being Nooga is somewhat gross and looks like Buckhead compared w Macon.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
wgdsr
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by wgdsr »

a fan wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:28 am
Peter Brown wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:24 am Do NOT bail out the pension schemes wrecking these blue states; that's all self inflicted corrupt garbage. If they are not allowed to fail, what's the incentive for these blue states to 1) change the current payouts or 2) just doing it all over again?

The corruption in these states is staggering.
:lol: So when NYSTate sends a couple hundred Billion to the Federal government over what they take in from the Federal government....

....And Kentucky TAKES OUT a couple hundred Billion per year from the Federal Government more than they put in....

.....in your world, that's not corruption? That's not NYState enabling corruption in Kentucky? That's not Kentucky living above its means.

Keep playing these games. At some point, Dems will take back Congress and the White House. And they'll remember stunts like the one you and McConnell pull.
wow. a couple hundred billion per year???!!! kentucky???? how is that possible?
link?
and that sounds crazy high for new york, too. doesn't it?
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

RedFromMI wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:24 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:15 pm I know Tech does a lot of high level aerospace, engineering and military related research. UGA is still a bunch of doofy bulldogs to me. People in state treat it like it’s on par w UVA and UNC so it’s beyond obnoxious while they’ll never win another national championship in football and whine about all the ones being one by every single adjacent state even including that one UT got after Peyton Manning left.

Mercer isn’t a bad school either though Macon makes towns like Gainesville and Chattanooga (home to a UT but also Suwanee, formerly University of the South) seem like Shangri La.
Suwanee is not exactly in Chattanooga - a good 52 mile drive from downtown...(my brother lives fairly close to Suwanee in between Estill Springs and Winchester).
Small correction, it's Sewanee with an e not a u. Still known as The University of the South.
Have a nephew there, couple of my son's buddies played lax there.
https://new.sewanee.edu
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