Johns Hopkins Coach Search

[Homer]

The issue was that other teams had better players. I don't understand how folks see it any other way.

Nobody's disputing the existence of a talent gap. The question is (a) WHY that situation arose, and (b) what other factors might ALSO have contributed to diminishing returns on the talent that remained. The magnitude of the talent gap would have to be really implausibly large to account for scoring margins like 18-5 all on its own.

[Matnum PI]

Maybe that's the answer and the heart of why it's hard to put a finger on, Why? Just a slow decline over 12 years.

[HopFan16]

Now that the downturn has been examined for the thousandth time on this forum, perhaps we can bring the discussion back to the actual topic: Who will (and should) Hopkins hire now?

Two guys who weren't part of the initial conversation but have come on as legitimate candidates in the last week are Mike Murphy of Penn and Peter Milliman of Cornell. Hop's current AD used to be an associate AD at Cornell. She also has not one, but two master's degrees from there. Meanwhile Hop's former AD, who is now the vice provost, was deputy AD at Penn and worked closely with Murphy's teams. Lots of Ivy connections in the Hopkins admin right now. Goes without saying that president Daniels also came to Hopkins from Penn.

Originally I didn't think Milliman would be all that interested in the Hopkins job, but apparently I was wrong about that, unless he's using it as leverage for a raise at Cornell, which is certainly possible.

Both would be solid hires, IMO, though I would still prefer Nadelen out of the alum group (possibly Marr and Raymond too) and Chemotti out of the non-alum group. Murphy is a good coach but I can't help but feel like he could have done more in Philly over the last decade. Only three NCAA tournament appearances in a decade—I know they alway have a tough schedule, and the program is certainly in a better place now than when he got there, but that's kind of underwhelming. For a large part of that decade, the Ivy League wasn't nearly as strong as it is now, and they won the conference only once before last season. Milliman is interesting and he's done well at Cornell since being promoted from interim but I think the jury is still kind of out on his longterm viability. Chemotti has done incredible work at Richmond—I think it'd be a massive coup to get him to Homewood but the worry would be that he'd bolt the second Duke opened up. Don't really want to get Haus'd again—even though that did bring us Petro.

[FlyEaglesFly]

Pass on Milliman

[NOLAXBRO]

1) More programs. 2) Conference realignment and expansion. 3) Changes in recruiting. 4) Introduction of the shot clock.

JHU started under-performing in 2009.
1- Other programs improved (and JHU did not improve as much)... Makes sense.
2- JHU joined the B1G in 2015.
3- The biggest Recruiting Changes are a relatively recent phenomena: early recruiting. Besides this, I'm unsure what changed.
4- Shot clock is also a relatively recent phenomena.

Let me expand on points 2-4, and, in my mind, it has to do with velocity effects. That is, Hop's downward trend accelerated amid the confluence of joining the B1G, the maturity of early recruiting (i.e., the full effects of early recruiting reached a peak), and the introduction of the shot clock.
...
Petro had a losing season in 2010 but still made the NCAA tournament. Prior to 2010, he'd never had a team at Hop get bounced from the tournament in the first round. He did that year.
...

I still don’t see how that team had a losing record.
Too much talent.
Yes, the Potentially Transformative Class that wasn’t.
Things must have been going on behind the scenes.
Durkin, Wharton, the freshman, Gvozden, experience in the net.
Too much talent.

Chemistry?

[Cooter]

UMd did fine with John Tillman, who had no NCAA tmt appearances (as a head coach) before coming to UMd.

[CU77]

Originally I didn't think Milliman would be all that interested in the Hopkins job, but apparently I was wrong about that

Why do you say that? Did I miss some news about Milliman?

FWIW, I don't think he's the right guy for Hop, but I also don't want him to leave Cornell, which has seen enough turmoil in the past decade ...

[Wheels]

Two guys who weren't part of the initial conversation but have come on as legitimate candidates in the last week are Mike Murphy of Penn and Peter Milliman of Cornell. Hop's current AD used to be an associate AD at Cornell. She also has not one, but two master's degrees from there. Meanwhile Hop's former AD, who is now the vice provost, was deputy AD at Penn and worked closely with Murphy's teams. Lots of Ivy connections in the Hopkins admin right now. Goes without saying that president Daniels also came to Hopkins from Penn.

Originally I didn't think Milliman would be all that interested in the Hopkins job, but apparently I was wrong about that, unless he's using it as leverage for a raise at Cornell, which is certainly possible.

Pass on Milliman

Remember that time Milliman had that all-world talent at attack, and another Ivy League team decided to shut off that all-world attackman? Then an opponent in the Ivy League Tournament shut off that attackman again? And then the NCAA tournament came around, and Maryland decided to shut off that all-world attackman, and Milliman hadn't figured out a counter to the shut-off over the previous couple of weeks? That was awesome.

As a Terp fan, I'm all for Hop hiring Milliman, though.

[HopFan16]

Originally I didn't think Milliman would be all that interested in the Hopkins job, but apparently I was wrong about that

Why do you say that? Did I miss some news about Milliman?

FWIW, I don't think he's the right guy for Hop, but I also don't want him to leave Cornell, which has seen enough turmoil in the past decade ...

No concrete news. I am not as close to the process as others but I have heard he has spoken to the school. As have a bunch of other guys. But he is one of them. Don't know much more than that. I was slightly surprised because initially I didn't really think he'd be in the mix but I may have underrated the AD's Cornell connection and/or Milliman's willingness to send out feelers. Though in hindsight it makes a lot of sense—he's a young coach who has had some success and this is the biggest opening in the sport since he's become a head coach. Can't blame him for at least exploring the option even if it's just to finagle a bigger office out of Cornell.

[MDlaxfan76]

UMd did fine with John Tillman, who had no NCAA tmt appearances (as a head coach) before coming to UMd.

True.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Two guys who weren't part of the initial conversation but have come on as legitimate candidates in the last week are Mike Murphy of Penn and Peter Milliman of Cornell. Hop's current AD used to be an associate AD at Cornell. She also has not one, but two master's degrees from there. Meanwhile Hop's former AD, who is now the vice provost, was deputy AD at Penn and worked closely with Murphy's teams. Lots of Ivy connections in the Hopkins admin right now. Goes without saying that president Daniels also came to Hopkins from Penn.

Originally I didn't think Milliman would be all that interested in the Hopkins job, but apparently I was wrong about that, unless he's using it as leverage for a raise at Cornell, which is certainly possible.

Pass on Milliman

Remember that time Milliman had that all-world talent at attack, and another Ivy League team decided to shut off that all-world attackman? Then an opponent in the Ivy League Tournament shut off that attackman again? And then the NCAA tournament came around, and Maryland decided to shut off that all-world attackman, and Milliman hadn't figured out a counter to the shut-off over the previous couple of weeks? That was awesome.

As a Terp fan, I'm all for Hop hiring Milliman, though.

That Ivy League team didn’t play shut off like the others. Look at the number of TOs he had.

[CU77]

No concrete news. I am not as close to the process as others but I have heard he has spoken to the school. As have a bunch of other guys. But he is one of them. Don't know much more than that. I was slightly surprised because initially I didn't really think he'd be in the mix but I may have underrated the AD's Cornell connection and/or Milliman's willingness to send out feelers. Though in hindsight it makes a lot of sense—he's a young coach who has had some success and this is the biggest opening in the sport since he's become a head coach. Can't blame him for at least exploring the option even if it's just to finagle a bigger office out of Cornell.

Absolutely. He should talk to Hop, and Hop should talk to him; no downside for either. But for Hop to pick a coach who's spent zero time in the world of Balitmore-area lax does not make a lot of sense ...

[CU77]

And then the NCAA tournament came around, and Maryland decided to shut off that all-world attackman

Terps D was a little more complex than that. See post-game interview with Tillman.

[Typical Lax Dad]

And then the NCAA tournament came around, and Maryland decided to shut off that all-world attackman

Terps D was a little more complex than that. See post-game interview with Tillman.

That wasn’t my quote but I am sure it wasn’t that simple. Do you know if Teat plans on playing next year?

[The Orfling]

Re: the Pete Milliman discussion: I think he is (a) an excellent recruiter; and (b) a good motivator. Those are two very important attributes.

My hesitation on Milliman would be on his game-day decision-making. I think it's fair to say the jury is still out, but I'm thinking of (a) 2018 when Jeff Teat was being shut off down the stretch (except by Yale in the Ivy League Tournament, which got Yale torched for their pains) and Cornell adjusted by having him go stand off by the sideline and playing 5 on 5; and (b) in 2019, as shown on the documentary "The Season," when Cornell had a poor first half against Yale Milliman reamed out lack of effort and barked out "no adjustments." Yes, he was trying to make a point about effort, and Cornell's second half effort improved -- but making in-game adjustments is not a weakness.

Maybe I'm wrong (small sample size) and he's a great game-day tactical coach, but if he came in as a HC I'd assume your program was getting moto-recruiting-guy and would ideally want to look for a great Xs and Os offensive coordinator.

But as noted, he hasn't been a HC that long and, even if I'm right that he's not a game-day tactician, plenty of schools would take a non-tactician who recruits well (as he does) and for whom kids play hard (as they do).

[wgdsr]

Re: the Pete Milliman discussion: I think he is (a) an excellent recruiter; and (b) a good motivator. Those are two very important attributes.

My hesitation on Milliman would be on his game-day decision-making. I think it's fair to say the jury is still out, but I'm thinking of (a) 2018 when Jeff Teat was being shut off down the stretch (except by Yale in the Ivy League Tournament, which got Yale torched for their pains) and Cornell adjusted by having him go stand off by the sideline and playing 5 on 5; and (b) in 2019, as shown on the documentary "The Season," when Cornell had a poor first half against Yale Milliman reamed out lack of effort and barked out "no adjustments." Yes, he was trying to make a point about effort, and Cornell's second half effort improved -- but making in-game adjustments is not a weakness.

Maybe I'm wrong (small sample size) and he's a great game-day tactical coach, but if he came in as a HC I'd assume your program was getting moto-recruiting-guy and would ideally want to look for a great Xs and Os offensive coordinator.

But as noted, he hasn't been a HC that long and, even if I'm right that he's not a game-day tactician, plenty of schools would take a non-tactician who recruits well (as he does) and for whom kids play hard (as they do).

no adjustments --- if it was his estimation in that instance that the gameplan wasn't getting upended by counter-tactical measures or just a game plan that wasn't working, but by effort... and that the gameplan was the most sound one (not to mention most prepared for), i wouldn't have any issue with a coach wanting to go with what he felt was the best strategy. following that along, wouldn't conclude that's a coach that can't/won't make in-game adjustments.

i watched several games as teat was getting shut off. didn't like how they handled it. maybe they didn't either, and would've had a better gameplan (really, multiple gameplans) set and ready to go for this year. sometimes you do need to have to adjust in-game, and imo they didn't do that effectively. and didn't press some of the things that did seem to be effective (i.e. teat as part of a double crease, setting picks).

ivy coaches are notoriously some of the lowest paid in d1 relative to their teams' standing. taking a call, or showing interest, can give you leverage if in fact you're a relatively hot property at the time. there's only so many times you can use that leverage, but it's never surprising to me that an ivy coach has their hat in the ring of a blue-blood search. would be more surprised if they take this one in particular. nothing against hopkins other than you are voluntarily going into a position with much greater scrutiny, maybe shorter shelf life. on top of leaving your squad, either the $$ or the ambition better be off the charts.

[Wheels]

And then the NCAA tournament came around, and Maryland decided to shut off that all-world attackman

Terps D was a little more complex than that. See post-game interview with Tillman.

Yes, that was me not TLD. And yes, Maryland's defense was more complex than Princeton's and Brown's defenses that shut off Teat. But the point still remains. Milliman left Teat standing over in the alley being shut off by Jack Welding for the entire game. On missed shots, Teat didn't even start with the ball (as Sowers does when teams try to shut him off). No 2-man, big-little sets behind the goal. No running Teat through the box (the easiest way to get the ball to a shut off player). On another Maryland board during that game, it's all anyone could talk about. The lack of adjustment or even imagination on how to get Teat the ball was noticeable. Having Princeton and Brown shut him off with their different schemes, it was kind of shocking to see how easily Maryland shut Teat off. When Cornell finally did adjust in the second half, it wasn't to get Teat involved. They used their big midfielders to get downhill in the alleys to great effect. Too little, too late, though. Total coaching mismatch in that game. I thought Cornell under-performed last year, too.

I will say this year, Milliman had them playing like they were on fire. Their physicality was off the charts. They had answers to specialized defenses against Teat. So he's definitely improving. If I'm Hop, though, I'd rather have Nads on the sideline than Milliman.

[CU77]

IMO you're not giving Milliman enough credit, especially for the Ivy tournament: remember that Cornell beat Yale on Sunday after playing a very leisurely and untaxing game (that they easily won) against Brown on Friday. Reminded me, in fact, of Petro in the 2007 NCAAs.

Against Maryland, IMO Cornell was not going to win no matter what. Milliman rolled the dice with a 5v5 strategy. Didn't work, but it's not clear that working harder to free up JT51 would have done any better. Against Maryland, JT was 0G2A; against Cuse the week before, who played him straight with Mullen, he was 0G1A.

This year, Cornell's offense was notably better overall, and no one tried to shut off JT.

All that said, I agree that Milliman is still rather green as a HC of a major program, and not the right fit for Hop.

[harflax]

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... cted/56324

Interesting they haven't contacted Marr, and that he is seemingly a popular candidate from the current team.

[HopFan16]

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... cted/56324

Interesting they haven't contacted Marr, and that he is seemingly a popular candidate from the current team.

He is their friend's dad...not surprising. It's good they consulted the current team about this but they shouldn't be the ones calling the shots. This is a longterm decision.

That said, it's super weird Marr hasn't been contacted. Perhaps he will be this week.

I maintain that this has always been Nadelen's job to lose no matter who the other candidates are.