Johns Hopkins Coach Search

[ABClaxfan]

Recruiting landscape, including the IL gurus/publications really hurt Petro too.

Kids got recruited way too early. IL, assumed these kids were good B/c they got recruited by Hop and rated them high.

Expectations scored.

Kids/Hopkins floundered.

Hopkins fans raged. Petro gets released.

Pietramala is a good coach. I have been a harsh critic of early recruiting. These last two Hopkins classes had solid players in it. uVa/JHU and UNC were the three programs all in on early recruiting in large numbers. Starsia and Petro are gone. I believe if they were recruiting the best juniors instead of the best freshman, they may still be around. Petro will be fine. A change may be good for both parties.

Maryland too. UVA, UNC, and Maryland have all won championships after going all in on early recruiting.

Maryland jumped on later. Also covered it up with Transfers. Lars got rid of mistakes on the team and in the pipeline. I believe recruiting from the best players as juniors is better than as freshmen. JHU, UNC and UVA set the market. Everyone else eventually followed. Enough difference makers dispersed. For instance Heninburg was interested in all 3 of those schools but the classes were full during Spring of his sophomore year in high school....so he ends up at Rutgers. Lots of examples. Just how it was back then.

I never understood why Hopkins didn’t take the same recruiting plan as Notre Dame or Yale. ND and Yale always seem to have smaller classes (10-12 kids). They recruited the top kids in the class early, but only a few and left room for stud juniors. They were always aggressive and able to poach/flip recruits from other programs as well. Plus both schools have similar academic and lacrosse profiles to JHU.

[ABClaxfan]

Recruiting landscape, including the IL gurus/publications really hurt Petro too.

Kids got recruited way too early. IL, assumed these kids were good B/c they got recruited by Hop and rated them high.

Expectations scored.

Kids/Hopkins floundered.

Hopkins fans raged. Petro gets released.

Pietramala is a good coach. I have been a harsh critic of early recruiting. These last two Hopkins classes had solid players in it. uVa/JHU and UNC were the three programs all in on early recruiting in large numbers. Starsia and Petro are gone. I believe if they were recruiting the best juniors instead of the best freshman, they may still be around. Petro will be fine. A change may be good for both parties.

Maryland too. UVA, UNC, and Maryland have all won championships after going all in on early recruiting.

Maryland jumped on later. Also covered it up with Transfers. Lars got rid of mistakes on the team and in the pipeline. I believe recruiting from the best players as juniors is better than as freshmen. JHU, UNC and UVA set the market. Everyone else eventually followed. Enough difference makers dispersed. For instance Heninburg was interested in all 3 of those schools but the classes were full during Spring of his sophomore year in high school....so he ends up at Rutgers. Lots of examples. Just how it was back then.

I never understood why Hopkins didn’t take the same recruiting plan as Notre Dame or Yale. ND and Yale always seem to have smaller classes (10-12 kids). They recruited the top kids in the class early, but only a few and left room for stud juniors. They were always aggressive and able to poach/flip recruits from other programs as well. Plus both schools have similar academic and lacrosse profiles to JHU.

[HopFan16]

Corrigan's recent recruiting plan of small classes and lots of late poaching hasn't exactly worked wonders for Notre Dame either. Since 2015 they have the same number of Final Four appearances as Hopkins: zero. And like the Jays, it didn't look like 2020 was going to be their year either. Yale obviously is a different story.

[Cooter]

Those two were good enough. Are you suggesting Maryland hasn’t run guys off and taken in transfers? They lost Cannizarro also. Maryland has the top program in the country. Full Stop.
P.S your starting SSDM was a UHa. transfer...

I think Dylan Maltz was the only starter on the Terps championship team that was a transfer - and he sort of stepped into the hole created by Cannizzaro's transfer out.

More than transfers Tillman usually left himself some room for some late recruits like Tim Muller or Colin Heacock.

Did someone say otherwise?
https://lacrossebucket.com/2020/04/13/b ... yland/amp/

You were ignoring it though, and jumping on the bandwagon for attacking Tillman about transfers.

Tillman also recently picked up a late recruit in Colin Burlace.
- not to mention an even later recruit in Daniel Kelly.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Those two were good enough. Are you suggesting Maryland hasn’t run guys off and taken in transfers? They lost Cannizarro also. Maryland has the top program in the country. Full Stop.
P.S your starting SSDM was a UHa. transfer...

I think Dylan Maltz was the only starter on the Terps championship team that was a transfer - and he sort of stepped into the hole created by Cannizzaro's transfer out.

More than transfers Tillman usually left himself some room for some late recruits like Tim Muller or Colin Heacock.

Did someone say otherwise?
https://lacrossebucket.com/2020/04/13/b ... yland/amp/

You were ignoring it though, and jumping on the bandwagon for attacking Tillman about transfers.

Tillman also recently picked up a late recruit in Colin Burlace.
- not to mention an even later recruit in Daniel Kelly.

Tillman runs the best program in the country at this point. He has his method. It works for him. He has won 1 title but it could easily have been more. He has evolved his method of recruiting, his style of play and selective use of transfers to plug holes. I don’t know who has had more success over the past 10 years. I have known coach Tillman for 20 years. I haven’t overlooked anything.

[AOD]

Those two were good enough. Are you suggesting Maryland hasn’t run guys off and taken in transfers? They lost Cannizarro also. Maryland has the top program in the country. Full Stop.
P.S your starting SSDM was a UHa. transfer...

I think Dylan Maltz was the only starter on the Terps championship team that was a transfer - and he sort of stepped into the hole created by Cannizzaro's transfer out.

More than transfers Tillman usually left himself some room for some late recruits like Tim Muller or Colin Heacock.

And Curtis Corley.

[smoova]

In consecutive classes, the first kids to commit to UVA were both cut.

Would you mind sharing which classes?

[Typical Lax Dad]

In consecutive classes, the first kids to commit to UVA were both cut.

Would you mind sharing which classes?

I believe 2014 and 2015.

[wgdsr]

Those two were good enough. Are you suggesting Maryland hasn’t run guys off and taken in transfers? They lost Cannizarro also. Maryland has the top program in the country. Full Stop.
P.S your starting SSDM was a UHa. transfer...

I think Dylan Maltz was the only starter on the Terps championship team that was a transfer - and he sort of stepped into the hole created by Cannizzaro's transfer out.

More than transfers Tillman usually left himself some room for some late recruits like Tim Muller or Colin Heacock.

Did someone say otherwise?
https://lacrossebucket.com/2020/04/13/b ... yland/amp/

You were ignoring it though, and jumping on the bandwagon for attacking Tillman about transfers.

Tillman also recently picked up a late recruit in Colin Burlace.
- not to mention an even later recruit in Daniel Kelly.

didn't that probably help them land a transfer in bj burlace?
umd had 8 transfers listed on their 2017 champ roster, 2 from juco.
that's evidence of... not taking transfers?
didn't dolan start all of the following year?
wasn't chanenchuck a transfer?
didn't they start a transfer at goalie at the beginning of this year? didn't they bring in 4 or 5 this year alone?

more to the point and tld can correct me if i'm wrong in his own thinking... how is taking transfers a bad thing or an accusation of wrong doing on its face?
a more mature young man, likely... a more mature player certainly... a better player than in hs or jr hs... choosing to go to a program that they like/admire/aspire to.
is there some badge of honor for only selecting kids that haven't hit puberty?
if you are getting transfers in, to me that means you're doing a lot of things right.
the running kids off part i won't comment on, know nothing about it.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Those two were good enough. Are you suggesting Maryland hasn’t run guys off and taken in transfers? They lost Cannizarro also. Maryland has the top program in the country. Full Stop.
P.S your starting SSDM was a UHa. transfer...

I think Dylan Maltz was the only starter on the Terps championship team that was a transfer - and he sort of stepped into the hole created by Cannizzaro's transfer out.

More than transfers Tillman usually left himself some room for some late recruits like Tim Muller or Colin Heacock.

Did someone say otherwise?
https://lacrossebucket.com/2020/04/13/b ... yland/amp/

You were ignoring it though, and jumping on the bandwagon for attacking Tillman about transfers.

Tillman also recently picked up a late recruit in Colin Burlace.
- not to mention an even later recruit in Daniel Kelly.

didn't that probably help them land a transfer in bj burlace?
umd had 8 transfers listed on their 2017 champ roster, 2 from juco.
that's evidence of... not taking transfers?
didn't dolan start all of the following year?
wasn't chanenchuck a transfer?
didn't they start a transfer at goalie at the beginning of this year? didn't they bring in 4 or 5 this year alone?

more to the point and tld can correct me if i'm wrong in his own thinking... how is taking transfers a bad thing or an accusation of wrong doing on its face?
a more mature young man, likely... a more mature player certainly... a better player than in hs or jr hs... choosing to go to a program that they like/admire/aspire to.
is there some badge of honor for only selecting kids that haven't hit puberty?
if you are getting transfers in, to me that means you're doing a lot of things right.
the running kids off part i won't comment on, know nothing about it.

People have different philosophies on building programs. Taking transfers has been part of Tillman’s methods. It’s not the only reason his program has been successful. It’s a competitive program. I believe it’s the #1 program over the past 10 years. An amazing level of consistency. Transfers have been part of the formula.

[laxpert]

The successful lacrosse coach in today’s game has to be a great evaluator of talent. The NFL draft is just days away and even with millions spent , outside pundits, endless evaluations their success rate is something around 50 percent. If they can’t get it right how can Inside Lacrosse be anything better than rough sandpaper. Shack was the number 1 ranked player who had a very good career at JHU, Ben Reeves was ranked in the 70’s with 10 attackman listed ahead of him. He was headed to Hobart before Yale took a chance on him where he won a title along with the Tewaarton.

I also want a coach that has great SSDMs , which might be the toughest position to recruit. Goalie is also difficult since a highly ranked GK’s often come from pedigree programs with a great defense’s in front of them.

You also need someone willing to take on the challenge and risk. Candidates mentioned have done well enough at their current job to have a little job security, well about as much as anyone gets in D1 lacrosse. When it doesn’t work out at the top levels of D1 lacrosse there are not that many opportunities to fall back on. At 0-6 there were a few minor rumblings about Towson but nothing like JHU.

[Cooter]

didn't that probably help them land a transfer in bj burlace?

Perhaps, it sounded like it in the article on bj burlace's transfer.

umd had 8 transfers listed on their 2017 champ roster, 2 from juco.

9 actually as James Bull came from UMBC, but only 2, played much, Maltz and Brosh (6 games)

that's evidence of... not taking transfers?

Not taking a lot of major transfers.

didn't dolan start all of the following year?

No, he started in 2019

wasn't chanenchuck a transfer?

Yes, as was Danseglio. Both had had to leave their previous schools.

didn't they start a transfer at goalie at the beginning of this year? didn't they bring in 4 or 5 this year alone?

Yes, Brandau. The Terps had 5 transfers last summer. The Terps entered the summer last year with 3 goalies and 3 face-off. I think Tillman likes to start the season with 4 at each spot - causing 2 of the transfers.
The Terps were also short of quality d-men, so it was no surprise that they went after Grill.

[Blackdoglax]

Both Cuse and Maryland regularly used transfers to add depth and to correct roster deficiencies, as did
Loyola and others. So what ?

Maybe Hop was not able to do that like Princeton, who knows but it makes HS recruiting that more important.

It’s true that both Lars and Tambroni when they got to UVA and Penn State Respectively did not honor predecessors commitments in terms of recruiting. That helped them bail out of the poor recruiting decisions made that helped doom Petro and Hop as well as Dom at UVA.

Not sure about TLD’s comments on UVA cutting their first commits in 2014 and 2015, I trust his knowledge because he knows his lacrosse.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The successful lacrosse coach in today’s game has to be a great evaluator of talent. The NFL draft is just days away and even with millions spent , outside pundits, endless evaluations their success rate is something around 50 percent. If they can’t get it right how can Inside Lacrosse be anything better than rough sandpaper. Shack was the number 1 ranked player who had a very good career at JHU, Ben Reeves was ranked in the 70’s with 10 attackman listed ahead of him. He was headed to Hobart before Yale took a chance on him where he won a title along with the Tewaarton.

I also want a coach that has great SSDMs , which might be the toughest position to recruit. Goalie is also difficult since a highly ranked GK’s often come from pedigree programs with a great defense’s in front of them.

You also need someone willing to take on the challenge and risk. Candidates mentioned have done well enough at their current job to have a little job security, well about as much as anyone gets in D1 lacrosse. When it doesn’t work out at the top levels of D1 lacrosse there are not that many opportunities to fall back on. At 0-6 there were a few minor rumblings about Towson but nothing like JHU.

Reeves is a good example of a player that just didn’t play well in showcase settings and wasn’t seen early on.

[runrussellrun]

The successful lacrosse coach in today’s game has to be a great evaluator of talent. The NFL draft is just days away and even with millions spent , outside pundits, endless evaluations their success rate is something around 50 percent. If they can’t get it right how can Inside Lacrosse be anything better than rough sandpaper. Shack was the number 1 ranked player who had a very good career at JHU, Ben Reeves was ranked in the 70’s with 10 attackman listed ahead of him. He was headed to Hobart before Yale took a chance on him where he won a title along with the Tewaarton.

I also want a coach that has great SSDMs , which might be the toughest position to recruit. Goalie is also difficult since a highly ranked GK’s often come from pedigree programs with a great defense’s in front of them.

You also need someone willing to take on the challenge and risk. Candidates mentioned have done well enough at their current job to have a little job security, well about as much as anyone gets in D1 lacrosse. When it doesn’t work out at the top levels of D1 lacrosse there are not that many opportunities to fall back on. At 0-6 there were a few minor rumblings about Towson but nothing like JHU.

Reeves is a good example of a player that just didn’t play well in showcase settings and wasn’t seen early on.

what's that say about the value of showcase settings?

You can recruit the LSM that has a cool toe drag, but little else. Give me the LSM with the all game motor, causing 18 cto's, per game, in the Range Rover showcase settings, stripping the ball all over the field. What, suddenly, coaches are recruiting "team" oriented players

[runrussellrun]

The successful lacrosse coach in today’s game has to be a great evaluator of talent. The NFL draft is just days away and even with millions spent , outside pundits, endless evaluations their success rate is something around 50 percent. If they can’t get it right how can Inside Lacrosse be anything better than rough sandpaper. Shack was the number 1 ranked player who had a very good career at JHU, Ben Reeves was ranked in the 70’s with 10 attackman listed ahead of him. He was headed to Hobart before Yale took a chance on him where he won a title along with the Tewaarton.

I also want a coach that has great SSDMs , which might be the toughest position to recruit. Goalie is also difficult since a highly ranked GK’s often come from pedigree programs with a great defense’s in front of them.

You also need someone willing to take on the challenge and risk. Candidates mentioned have done well enough at their current job to have a little job security, well about as much as anyone gets in D1 lacrosse. When it doesn’t work out at the top levels of D1 lacrosse there are not that many opportunities to fall back on. At 0-6 there were a few minor rumblings about Towson but nothing like JHU.

As I stated earlier, it's AQ or nothing for the CAA. Pretty much for every other league as well. rare exceptions. It's just a fact. laxmafia stuff.

Do you really think Towson, in the year 2017, would have received an invite to the n$aa's, if they had lost to UMass in the CAA championship? It's never happened. Ever. 2 CAA teams invited.

Towson, in 2017 , beating Hopkins, and "good" loses to Denver, OSU & Loyola....with a 10-4 record . You know it. I know it. Only one team from the CAA is getting an invite.

Maryland public HS invite everyone to the tournament, don't they

[Matnum PI]

In his first 8 years, Petro did great. In his final 12, not as great. What changed?

[Wheels]

In his first 8 years, Petro did great. In his final 12, not as great. What changed?

1) More programs. 2) Conference realignment and expansion. 3) Changes in recruiting. 4) Introduction of the shot clock.

[Matnum PI]

1) More programs. 2) Conference realignment and expansion. 3) Changes in recruiting. 4) Introduction of the shot clock.

JHU started under-performing in 2009.
1- Other programs improved (and JHU did not improve as much)... Makes sense.
2- JHU joined the B1G in 2015.
3- The biggest Recruiting Changes are a relatively recent phenomena: early recruiting. Besides this, I'm unsure what changed.
4- Shot clock is also a relatively recent phenomena.

[MDlaxfan76]

The successful lacrosse coach in today’s game has to be a great evaluator of talent. The NFL draft is just days away and even with millions spent , outside pundits, endless evaluations their success rate is something around 50 percent. If they can’t get it right how can Inside Lacrosse be anything better than rough sandpaper. Shack was the number 1 ranked player who had a very good career at JHU, Ben Reeves was ranked in the 70’s with 10 attackman listed ahead of him. He was headed to Hobart before Yale took a chance on him where he won a title along with the Tewaarton.

I also want a coach that has great SSDMs , which might be the toughest position to recruit. Goalie is also difficult since a highly ranked GK’s often come from pedigree programs with a great defense’s in front of them.

You also need someone willing to take on the challenge and risk. Candidates mentioned have done well enough at their current job to have a little job security, well about as much as anyone gets in D1 lacrosse. When it doesn’t work out at the top levels of D1 lacrosse there are not that many opportunities to fall back on. At 0-6 there were a few minor rumblings about Towson but nothing like JHU.

I agree that GK's are difficult, but not as much because of what you cite. Seems to me that the highest probability college GK's have come pretty reliably out of top programs competing in top leagues.

In order to become that team's tender, and to do well in the role relative to other tenders in that highly competitive league, they generally need to be strong in multiple dimensions. IMO, the most critical of those involve emotional resiliency and mental comprehension of the game. And those are very difficult to measure at any point, but are also a moving target as kids mature in these ways at different rates, and some get stuck and even burn out.

Where this went awry, IMO, was that in the push to secure players earlier and earlier, judgments were getting made based on how kids were doing when they were far less mature/developed/tested in those multiple dimensions. Often giving priority to those 'luck of the draw' situations of a position opening up as a sophomore , instead of the usual backlog at such schools. Judgments being made based on their physical attributes at the relative age level. A more physically mature GK who happens to get PT early seems to be a very, very attractive recruit, after all he's going to get lots of experience, right?. But will his emotional resiliency be strong later on? Will he really master the complexities of the game necessary to be the field general at a college level?

So, we had a lot of coaches talking about a freshman or sophomore GK's 'athleticism' (typically whether they ran around a lot out of the goal) and their hand eye reactions...but with very little appreciation for the technique, the discipline of the player, the resilience under pressure, leadership of the defense. Those are much, much harder to discern, but they also weren't what coaches would talk about as they watched summer ball tournaments and showcases.

ER simply made it even harder.