All things CoronaVirus

[njbill]

The question was ridiculously stupid, yet par for the course for Tucker, because he knew the governor hadn’t nullified the bill of rights. It was a typical sophomoric, intentionally provocative question. Stupid is a good way to describe it.

I’m disappointed my governor didn’t handle it better.

[RedFromMI]

Widespread testing a barrier for reopening country as White House seeks plan
White House aides scramble to ramp up testing in the U.S., but there's no clear plan yet.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... n-n1185516

The White House is exploring ways of drastically increasing coronavirus testing in the U.S., as President Donald Trump’s aides scramble to put measures in place that might make it feasible for him to meet his goal of reopening the economy in parts of the country by May 1, according to four people familiar with the efforts.

Multiple ideas are under consideration for increasing diagnostic testing and testing for coronavirus antibodies as well as how to target those tests to geographic areas and specific industries to open as much of the economy as possible, these people said.

One proposal that’s been considered would involve the federal government partnering with major technology companies in an effort aimed at increasing testing capacity to at least 3 million tests a day, according to three people familiar with the plan. Some administration officials, however, cautioned that amount was unrealistic and said different types of testing would be strategically deployed.

A senior administration official said the White House is “close” to making an announcement on a plan.

Another idea that’s been discussed would use the Defense Production Act to rapidly scale up testing, according to one person familiar with the discussions, though officials played down the idea given that Trump has been resistant to more consistently deploying that presidential power since he would rather use the law as leverage to get companies to take such steps.

The push to ramp up testing reflects an acknowledgment by some of the president’s advisers that, despite his insistence that testing is working well, there are problems with access and that significantly increasing the number of tests per day will be critical if the economy is going to reopen. Trump said he will announce guidelines on Thursday for reopening the economy.

Just think what the result would have been if the administration did this say in early February, when Trump seemed to think his ban on some China travel would fix everything...

Trump assembled the Coronavirus Task Force in January.

Do you think the CDC, NIH etc sat on their hands and did nothing.

Early in February Pelosi et al were impeaching Trump. How apoplectic would you all have been if trump shut down the congress (because of a disease that still didn't have a footprint in the country) and sent Congress home to mitigate the spread of the disease

We've been locked down for more than 30 days and the virus still hasn't peaked in some places. What would we have gained locked down three weeks earlier. Three weeks more of isolation?

His task force early on seems to have been ignored - so yes it was ineffective.

The NY Times posted a graph showing the effect of how extra time would have made such a difference (I already posted this once):

Since the IHME model has gotten a lot of play (and BTW the expected # of deaths went up by nearly 10K in their latest update yesterday) it might be interesting to see how their model sees the effect of earlier intervention (1 and 2 weeks):

From https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/opin ... ncing.html

nytsd.png (13.32 KiB) Viewed 1679 times

If only Trump had listened better to his experts on epidemiology...

[old salt]

Widespread testing a barrier for reopening country as White House seeks plan
White House aides scramble to ramp up testing in the U.S., but there's no clear plan yet.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... n-n1185516

The White House is exploring ways of drastically increasing coronavirus testing in the U.S., as President Donald Trump’s aides scramble to put measures in place that might make it feasible for him to meet his goal of reopening the economy in parts of the country by May 1, according to four people familiar with the efforts.

Multiple ideas are under consideration for increasing diagnostic testing and testing for coronavirus antibodies as well as how to target those tests to geographic areas and specific industries to open as much of the economy as possible, these people said.

One proposal that’s been considered would involve the federal government partnering with major technology companies in an effort aimed at increasing testing capacity to at least 3 million tests a day, according to three people familiar with the plan. Some administration officials, however, cautioned that amount was unrealistic and said different types of testing would be strategically deployed.

A senior administration official said the White House is “close” to making an announcement on a plan.

Another idea that’s been discussed would use the Defense Production Act to rapidly scale up testing, according to one person familiar with the discussions, though officials played down the idea given that Trump has been resistant to more consistently deploying that presidential power since he would rather use the law as leverage to get companies to take such steps.

The push to ramp up testing reflects an acknowledgment by some of the president’s advisers that, despite his insistence that testing is working well, there are problems with access and that significantly increasing the number of tests per day will be critical if the economy is going to reopen. Trump said he will announce guidelines on Thursday for reopening the economy.

Just think what the result would have been if the administration did this say in early February, when Trump seemed to think his ban on some China travel would fix everything...

There are indications that a big part of our testing shortfall is our hodge podge of processing labs -- Individual city & state heath dept labs, hospital labs of all sizes & capabilities, university labs, private company labs, fed agency labs. Coordinating them must be like herding cats.

We're not a compact consolidated country like Germany or S Korea where you can call them all together in a train station & figure out a plan.

In the daily briefings, Dr Birx is diplomatic & tries to stay constructive, but you can see her frustration simmering just below the surface.

So who or what is frustrating her?
Questions from reporters?
The difficulty of herding those cats?
The lack of a direct federal response after flubbing it so badly out of the gate on testing?
Trump saying stupid stuff while she has to stand around waiting?

All of the above?

The inherent difficulty in getting a hodge podge of labs in 50 states, with varying equipment, capabilities & proficiency, to implement a hodge podge of test kits with varying accuracy, procedures, & components, in use on an unprecedented scale.

We were not structured or prepared for an undertaking of this magnitude, in a short time frame...ever, even before Trump.

[a fan]

We were not structured or prepared for an undertaking of this magnitude, in a short time frame...ever, even before Trump.

Hopefully, Trump is changing this as we speak.

[old salt]

Widespread testing a barrier for reopening country as White House seeks plan
White House aides scramble to ramp up testing in the U.S., but there's no clear plan yet.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... n-n1185516

The White House is exploring ways of drastically increasing coronavirus testing in the U.S., as President Donald Trump’s aides scramble to put measures in place that might make it feasible for him to meet his goal of reopening the economy in parts of the country by May 1, according to four people familiar with the efforts.

Multiple ideas are under consideration for increasing diagnostic testing and testing for coronavirus antibodies as well as how to target those tests to geographic areas and specific industries to open as much of the economy as possible, these people said.

One proposal that’s been considered would involve the federal government partnering with major technology companies in an effort aimed at increasing testing capacity to at least 3 million tests a day, according to three people familiar with the plan. Some administration officials, however, cautioned that amount was unrealistic and said different types of testing would be strategically deployed.

A senior administration official said the White House is “close” to making an announcement on a plan.

Another idea that’s been discussed would use the Defense Production Act to rapidly scale up testing, according to one person familiar with the discussions, though officials played down the idea given that Trump has been resistant to more consistently deploying that presidential power since he would rather use the law as leverage to get companies to take such steps.

The push to ramp up testing reflects an acknowledgment by some of the president’s advisers that, despite his insistence that testing is working well, there are problems with access and that significantly increasing the number of tests per day will be critical if the economy is going to reopen. Trump said he will announce guidelines on Thursday for reopening the economy.

Just think what the result would have been if the administration did this say in early February, when Trump seemed to think his ban on some China travel would fix everything...

There are indications that a big part of our testing shortfall is our hodge podge of processing labs -- Individual city & state heath dept labs, hospital labs of all sizes & capabilities, university labs, private company labs, fed agency labs. Coordinating them must be like herding cats.

We're not a compact consolidated country like Germany or S Korea where you can call them all together in a train station & figure out a plan.

In the daily briefings, Dr Birx is diplomatic & tries to stay constructive, but you can see her frustration simmering just below the surface.

So who or what is frustrating her?
Questions from reporters?
The difficulty of herding those cats?
The lack of a direct federal response after flubbing it so badly out of the gate on testing?
Trump saying stupid stuff while she has to stand around waiting?

All of the above?

None of the above. See my previous response.

[old salt]

We were not structured or prepared for an undertaking of this magnitude, in a short time frame...ever, even before Trump.

Hopefully, Trump is changing this as we speak.

Do you agree that testing on this scale, with the urgency of a short time frame, is an unprecedented challenge for the US public health system ?

When have we ever needed to test so many, in such a short time frame, starting from scratch ?

[6ftstick]

Widespread testing a barrier for reopening country as White House seeks plan
White House aides scramble to ramp up testing in the U.S., but there's no clear plan yet.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... n-n1185516

The White House is exploring ways of drastically increasing coronavirus testing in the U.S., as President Donald Trump’s aides scramble to put measures in place that might make it feasible for him to meet his goal of reopening the economy in parts of the country by May 1, according to four people familiar with the efforts.

Multiple ideas are under consideration for increasing diagnostic testing and testing for coronavirus antibodies as well as how to target those tests to geographic areas and specific industries to open as much of the economy as possible, these people said.

One proposal that’s been considered would involve the federal government partnering with major technology companies in an effort aimed at increasing testing capacity to at least 3 million tests a day, according to three people familiar with the plan. Some administration officials, however, cautioned that amount was unrealistic and said different types of testing would be strategically deployed.

A senior administration official said the White House is “close” to making an announcement on a plan.

Another idea that’s been discussed would use the Defense Production Act to rapidly scale up testing, according to one person familiar with the discussions, though officials played down the idea given that Trump has been resistant to more consistently deploying that presidential power since he would rather use the law as leverage to get companies to take such steps.

The push to ramp up testing reflects an acknowledgment by some of the president’s advisers that, despite his insistence that testing is working well, there are problems with access and that significantly increasing the number of tests per day will be critical if the economy is going to reopen. Trump said he will announce guidelines on Thursday for reopening the economy.

Just think what the result would have been if the administration did this say in early February, when Trump seemed to think his ban on some China travel would fix everything...

Trump assembled the Coronavirus Task Force in January.

Do you think the CDC, NIH etc sat on their hands and did nothing.

Early in February Pelosi et al were impeaching Trump. How apoplectic would you all have been if trump shut down the congress (because of a disease that still didn't have a footprint in the country) and sent Congress home to mitigate the spread of the disease

We've been locked down for more than 30 days and the virus still hasn't peaked in some places. What would we have gained locked down three weeks earlier. Three weeks more of isolation?

His task force early on seems to have been ignored - so yes it was ineffective.

The NY Times posted a graph showing the effect of how extra time would have made such a difference (I already posted this once):

Since the IHME model has gotten a lot of play (and BTW the expected # of deaths went up by nearly 10K in their latest update yesterday) it might be interesting to see how their model sees the effect of earlier intervention (1 and 2 weeks):

From https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/opin ... ncing.html

nytsd.png

If only Trump had listened better to his experts on epidemiology...

Seeing as how the IMHE hasn't been right once we might take this one with a grain of salt

[CU77]

We were not structured or prepared for an undertaking of this magnitude, in a short time frame...ever, even before Trump.

Hopefully, Trump is changing this as we speak.

Good one!

[CU88]

Years ago, anthropologist Margaret Mead was asked by a student what she considered to be the first sign of civilization in a culture. The student expected Mead to talk about fishhooks or clay pots or grinding stones.

But no. Mead said that the first sign of civilization in an ancient culture was a femur (thighbone) that had been broken and then healed. Mead explained that in the animal kingdom, if you break your leg, you die. You cannot run from danger, get to the river for a drink or hunt for food. You are meat for prowling beasts. No animal survives a broken leg long enough for the bone to heal.

A broken femur that has healed is evidence that someone has taken time to stay with the one who fell, has bound up the wound, has carried the person to safety and has tended the person through recovery. Helping someone else through difficulty is where civilization starts, Mead said."

We are at our best when we serve others. Be civilized.

- Ira Byock.

[a fan]

We were not structured or prepared for an undertaking of this magnitude, in a short time frame...ever, even before Trump.

Hopefully, Trump is changing this as we speak.

Do you agree that testing on this scale, with the urgency of a short time frame, is an unprecedented challenge for the US public health system ?

Yes! Of course I agree.

What I was trying to communicate...and admittedly did a poor job of doing that...is that I hope that Trump and his team are fixing this issue for future outbreaks and/or a second outbreak of Corona.

[runrussellrun]

So tired of this.
So, we have over 30k deaths in just, what the first 60 days of this pandemic in the US, even with immense efforts to social distance the last 30, and you're still equating the flu with COVID-19?

I have no idea whether you are truly stupid or are just trolling, but give this one up, 6ft.
That dog don't hunt.

Try another dog.

So those 60 thousand deaths really don't matter to you.

Because its just the flu.

Even if you trust the accuracy of these numbers.....

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map


.......in the upper right hand corner, the number most of US read is: 26,708

Who knew 26,708 was more than 30K. Or, OVER, 30k

It is US, who are sick of you and your nonsense fear porn, on the fly numbers .

Stop making opinions, as if they are facts.

Number is currently over 30K (just checked). You have to refresh the page to get the current numbers. worldometer.info is almost 34K because it includes likely cases not tested in NYS.

Real number is maybe double - 60K or even 70K - due to our lack of testing and the fact that a lot of cases where you have an in-home death get missed in the confirmed count (which is what the jhu site includes only). But you can get a pretty accurate estimate of real numbers by looking at excess deaths over normal, and for at least 4 European countries confirmed cases are about half the total deaths including the excess ones.

What is truly alarming is that even after all this, there are so many truly hard headed nut jobs who think it's comparable to the flu, so why the big deal?

And why do those nut jobs all line up with Trump?
why the correlation?

Caveat, RRR says he doesn't like Trump but then he simply has a low opinion of everyone but himself. True outlier.

Nope, I look at you and tRump as the same.........pretend CONservatives.

And, what makes you think I don't have a low opinion of myself I wanna fit in with all the preppers. I didn't take you for a Mormon

s

[jhu72]

Years ago, anthropologist Margaret Mead was asked by a student what she considered to be the first sign of civilization in a culture. The student expected Mead to talk about fishhooks or clay pots or grinding stones.

But no. Mead said that the first sign of civilization in an ancient culture was a femur (thighbone) that had been broken and then healed. Mead explained that in the animal kingdom, if you break your leg, you die. You cannot run from danger, get to the river for a drink or hunt for food. You are meat for prowling beasts. No animal survives a broken leg long enough for the bone to heal.

A broken femur that has healed is evidence that someone has taken time to stay with the one who fell, has bound up the wound, has carried the person to safety and has tended the person through recovery. Helping someone else through difficulty is where civilization starts, Mead said."

We are at our best when we serve others. Be civilized.

- Ira Byock.

+1

[ggait]

The question was ridiculously stupid, yet par for the course for Tucker, because he knew the governor hadn’t nullified the bill of rights. It was a typical sophomoric, intentionally provocative question. Stupid is a good way to describe it.

I’m disappointed my governor didn’t handle it better.

“By what authority did you nullify the Bill of Rights in issuing this order?” Carlson asked the governor.

That is an incredibly stupid and/or uninformed question.

I guess a more appropriate answer would have been something like:

"Tucker -- you obviously know absolutely nothing about our federal system and our constitution. Your lack of knowledge is appalling and shows complete bad faith on your part. Perhaps you should go read one of the hundreds/thousands of Supreme Court cases on this that demonstrate your complete ignoramus hackiness. If anyone thinks I "nullified" the bill of rights, go ahead and sue me in court. Where their cases will get thrown out in a New Jersey minute. And any lawyer filing such a case would be likely to be sanctioned and maybe lose his law license.

The only reason to ask such a dumb offensive and dangerous question is so you can cash some more 0.01% level checks from your pathetic network. But I guess your mouth breather dumb ass viewers like to hear such stupid stuff?"

Would that have been a better answer?

[runrussellrun]

Pathetic.

If you bring up the pandemic of 2009, it's irrelevent. But, the REAL problem, from 100 years ago. relevent.

got it.

Unfortunately, when it comes to debating issues, you are not at the same level as the others on this forum. If you understood what was being posted above, you would know people have been fretting over the loss of "rights" and that the government (they say) does not have the legal authority to impose certain strictures on them. That by imposing these strictures, it has meant a loss of rights and represent the possibility of further loss of rights for citizens. Quite obviously, you do not understand legal precedent as well. This is why you dismiss my post even though it fully documents the legal authority government has by way of historical precedent. Since you are not at the level where you may understand it, there is nothing further I can to illustrate the fact that government does have the legal authority being exercised today by Governors Whitmer, Cuomo, and Walz among others.

Perhaps someone else can simplify and illustrate that for you.

What level would that be? Wearing masks? Gee, is THAT all that is happening? Your passive, aggressive tone .......save it.

See if you will understand the meaning behind this video........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roCm6qref3o

[Nigel]

Seems our seniors are as likely to be harmed from the extended shut down as the virus.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/thank ... 2020-04-15

Prior to the economic downturn—or collapse—that we’re now experiencing, the trust fund was projected to run out of money by 2035.

I’ve mentioned before that Social Security is now dipping into its reserves—the so-called “trust fund”—to pay benefits. That’s because the system isn’t taking in enough cash from payroll taxes, which is how the gargantuan Social Security program—by far the single biggest source of federal spending—is financed.This has, practically overnight, gotten worse.

Why? Because some 16 million Americans have lost their jobs in the last three weeks. This means there are a lot fewer—millions fewer—people paying those payroll taxes into the Social Security system.

And on top of a lot less money coming in, a lot more will soon be going out. That’s because people who are now out of work and eligible to draw benefits may soon do so, out of sheer economic need.

This one-two punch could mean the depletion of the trust fund sooner than 2035. How soon? Perhaps two years earlier—2033

you mean there's actually a fund somewhere?

Sure, symbol is P O N Z I

[RedFromMI]

(much omitted)

Seeing as how the IMHE hasn't been right once we might take this one with a grain of salt

Actually they have been pretty correct the entire time. But their model makes certain assumptions about exactly what is happening at the moment. When governments change their behavior, when people change their behavior, the model assumptions have to be updated.

In other words - every time you see a graph from a model created by IHME or elsewhere, it has been updated for the conditions at that moment. So the fact that things did not play out exactly as predicted for a particular time is NOT a fault of the model. It is because interventions that were not originally predicted happened, or happened sooner. It is because things that were done correctly either sooner or later made an impact.

It is a MOVING target. So the IHME model for a given day is just that - the model for that day. Three times a week they put out a new version, with updates of data (particularly for the last couple of days, and any changes made in the interventions (did a particular governor order a specific set of actions that changed the situation, for example).

It is quite complicated for the average person to comprehend. But it ain't because the model is faulty.

Actually the best criticism of the model has nothing to do with say predicting the peaks and when they occur - but has to do with the tails afterward (a pretty technical critique of the particular model functions they use). Basically the critique says the IHME model has the tails dropping too sharply afterwards...

[runrussellrun]

Pathetic.

If you bring up the pandemic of 2009, it's irrelevent. But, the REAL problem, from 100 years ago. relevent.

got it.

Unfortunately, when it comes to debating issues, you are not at the same level as the others on this forum. If you understood what was being posted above, you would know people have been fretting over the loss of "rights" and that the government (they say) does not have the legal authority to impose certain strictures on them. That by imposing these strictures, it has meant a loss of rights and represent the possibility of further loss of rights for citizens. Quite obviously, you do not understand legal precedent as well. This is why you dismiss my post even though it fully documents the legal authority government has by way of historical precedent. Since you are not at the level where you may understand it, there is nothing further I can to illustrate the fact that government does have the legal authority being exercised today by Governors Whitmer, Cuomo, and Walz among others.

Perhaps someone else can simplify and illustrate that for you.

What level would that be? Wearing masks? Gee, is THAT all that is happening? Your passive, aggressive tone .......save it.

See if you will understand the meaning behind this video........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roCm6qref3o

Lehigh, since this is a lacrosse thread. USILA champion., Navy, the next two years, than Navy shared it.

[MDlaxfan76]

Widespread testing a barrier for reopening country as White House seeks plan
White House aides scramble to ramp up testing in the U.S., but there's no clear plan yet.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... n-n1185516

The White House is exploring ways of drastically increasing coronavirus testing in the U.S., as President Donald Trump’s aides scramble to put measures in place that might make it feasible for him to meet his goal of reopening the economy in parts of the country by May 1, according to four people familiar with the efforts.

Multiple ideas are under consideration for increasing diagnostic testing and testing for coronavirus antibodies as well as how to target those tests to geographic areas and specific industries to open as much of the economy as possible, these people said.

One proposal that’s been considered would involve the federal government partnering with major technology companies in an effort aimed at increasing testing capacity to at least 3 million tests a day, according to three people familiar with the plan. Some administration officials, however, cautioned that amount was unrealistic and said different types of testing would be strategically deployed.

A senior administration official said the White House is “close” to making an announcement on a plan.

Another idea that’s been discussed would use the Defense Production Act to rapidly scale up testing, according to one person familiar with the discussions, though officials played down the idea given that Trump has been resistant to more consistently deploying that presidential power since he would rather use the law as leverage to get companies to take such steps.

The push to ramp up testing reflects an acknowledgment by some of the president’s advisers that, despite his insistence that testing is working well, there are problems with access and that significantly increasing the number of tests per day will be critical if the economy is going to reopen. Trump said he will announce guidelines on Thursday for reopening the economy.

Just think what the result would have been if the administration did this say in early February, when Trump seemed to think his ban on some China travel would fix everything...

There are indications that a big part of our testing shortfall is our hodge podge of processing labs -- Individual city & state heath dept labs, hospital labs of all sizes & capabilities, university labs, private company labs, fed agency labs. Coordinating them must be like herding cats.

We're not a compact consolidated country like Germany or S Korea where you can call them all together in a train station & figure out a plan.

In the daily briefings, Dr Birx is diplomatic & tries to stay constructive, but you can see her frustration simmering just below the surface.

So who or what is frustrating her?
Questions from reporters?
The difficulty of herding those cats?
The lack of a direct federal response after flubbing it so badly out of the gate on testing?
Trump saying stupid stuff while she has to stand around waiting?

All of the above?

The inherent difficulty in getting a hodge podge of labs in 50 states, with varying equipment, capabilities & proficiency, to implement a hodge podge of test kits with varying accuracy, procedures, & components, in use on an unprecedented scale.

We were not structured or prepared for an undertaking of this magnitude, in a short time frame...ever, even before Trump.

I'd agree.
And then we f'd it up royally at each turn.

Still don't have a national, federally-driven strategy, much less are using the full weight of the federal government to secure necessary materials, reagents, etc, nor any standardization of processes and procedures.

So, companies and states and health systems and employers are still bidding against one another for critical resources, including those necessary to produce and administer the tests.

This does not have to be the case just because we're a big country.
It's attitudinal, the notion that it's not really a big problem, even we 'like lower #'s", and if it's actually a problem, it's someone else's problem.

This is where the federal government really does have authority, really does have a purpose on behalf of the entire country.

[MDlaxfan76]

Years ago, anthropologist Margaret Mead was asked by a student what she considered to be the first sign of civilization in a culture. The student expected Mead to talk about fishhooks or clay pots or grinding stones.

But no. Mead said that the first sign of civilization in an ancient culture was a femur (thighbone) that had been broken and then healed. Mead explained that in the animal kingdom, if you break your leg, you die. You cannot run from danger, get to the river for a drink or hunt for food. You are meat for prowling beasts. No animal survives a broken leg long enough for the bone to heal.

A broken femur that has healed is evidence that someone has taken time to stay with the one who fell, has bound up the wound, has carried the person to safety and has tended the person through recovery. Helping someone else through difficulty is where civilization starts, Mead said."

We are at our best when we serve others. Be civilized.

- Ira Byock.

great message. Smart gal.
thanks for sharing

[runrussellrun]

Contrary to the many lies and distortions of delusionals on the far right, the government can compel people to wear masks in order to prevent the spread of contagion. This is not diminishing your rights, on the contrary it is intended to protect people's rights to be free from contagion. Thus, with this legal precedent, the Michigan Tea Baggers have no business protesting against the actions of that state's governor nor does anyone else have any illusory claim against the governors or mayors or health department directors.

Again, don't really care about the stupid masks.

My video, a commercial, where Kurt schilling, another pretend CONservative, "headed to Boston, to end a 86 year old curse"

1918.....he speaks of .

The last time the Boston Red Sox won the world series, prior to Kurt arriving.

Millions dead, world wide. What business shut down? Baseball, just was free marketing?

Colleges still remained open. Commencements happened.

You REALLY want to compare 1918, and what our government, did, or did not do?

What business was deemed "ESSENTIAL" during the spanish flu. come on, brookie.......get us answer.
Do we NOT have just as much military assets, per capita, outside of our country today ? More than when we actually declared our first world war? go home with that excuse.