All things CoronaVirus

[AOD]

Hell no. I and my fellow taxpayers will be on the hook to fix Michigan or any other State that turns into a virus hotspot.

Add KY, Il and NJ to that list a fan. These are states with the largest public pension deficits. They've floated the idea of a Federal gov't bailout at least once already. With state sales tax revenues dropping at catastrophic rates, the stock market still hurting badly and the climate for bailouts in general changing, we're likely to see another attempt at Federal subsidies for state pension obligations. Get ready.

State Pensions have been an ongoing discussion at the Water Cooler for 20 years. They're stupid, and unsustainable. They need to end them, immediately.

But every Governor is in line, asking for bailouts because of the tax shortfall from the virus shutdown. This could've been ameliorated by giving out far larger checks to taxpayers early in the crisis. You could see this tax shortfall coming a thousand miles away....

Yes, this has been an issue for many years. The combination of factors I noted make this the right time for the states to run to Washington with their hands out. One thing is certain. The plans won't end so long as a Federal bailout remains appears possible.

[CU88]

Shows former President Barack Obama stressing the need for U.S. pandemic preparedness in 2014.

https://www.fic.nih.gov/News/GlobalHeal ... visit.aspx

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama ... ness-2014/

[a fan]

Yes, this has been an issue for many years. The combination of factors I noted make this the right time for the states to run to Washington with their hands out. One thing is certain. The plans won't end so long as a Federal bailout remains appears possible.

You give corrupt State officials too much credit.

They're not depending on a Federal bailout. They're simply too dumb, and too corrupt to end pensions.

[CU88]

It's a good time to close down the World Health Organization, right?

Is this "hold" on funds due to WHO going to end up being an illegal action, just like the Ukraine funds shakedown?

[RedFromMI]

It's a good time to close down the World Health Organization, right?

Is this "hold" on funds due to WHO going to end up being an illegal action, just like the Ukraine funds shakedown?

Trump needs a boogie man to take the blame for his own screwups - so he is perfectly willing to sacrifice the health of everyone who is not himself.

Trying to cripple the one organization who can help those countries overwhelmed by the CV crisis is kind of stupid. But then again - that seems to be Trump (stupid is as stupid does).

[runrussellrun]

undebateable, you are. The premise......the proof is on YOU! you made the claim. Social distortion is working. 100% reason why it's "working" got it.

Asked and answered. You just don't like the answer.

It's simple. I haven't been in contact with another human for four weeks.

How am I going to get the virus? I can't. Now multiply this by a few million people. So the virus will slow down, giving medical professionals time to figure out everything from treatment, to increased testing, to outright vaccines.


And in places where people kept right on going out to restaurants like Sweden? Their death rate is higher than America's is.

What else do you need to see? You're saying this isn't' enough for you. So I'm asking again: what is? What would convince you that this path is working?

THIS......this claim (above) It's laughable. You just, very clearly, stated that people going out to eat, in Sweden, are dying. Kept on doing it. They healthy 36 year olds ? THEY are the ones dying? You actually believe THIS to be true. THat healthy people are dying ? With zero evidence. Except your own claim. An opinion. What you call an answer. Fine. What information made you conclude that the people, who kept going out, are dying? What percentage of Swedish V-19 attributed deaths fit this demographic? The Restauration, kept going outers. Is THAT a classification, recommended by yet another Hopkins "re$earch $tudy ".

BUT.....your answer is enough proof. Isn't that right

[a fan]

THIS......this claim (above) It's laughable. You just, very clearly, stated that people going out to eat, in Sweden, are dying. Kept on doing it.

So you don't believe the numbers coming out of Sweden now?

Why?

[runrussellrun]

Even with the complete lack of sameness, when it comes to agencies death count, which furthers the misinformation, being disguised as information, how is this "estimate" holding up?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... o-03-03-20

3.4% Mortality Rate estimate by the World Health Organization (WHO) as of March 3
In his opening remarks at the March 3 media briefing on Covid-19, WHO Director-General Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus stated:

“Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died. By comparison, seasonal flu generally kills far fewer than 1% of those infected.” [13]

Regarding Sweden, the claim remains "interesting" , regarding mortality rates. 12k Swedes have tested positive. By itself, it means nothing. Overall, how many Swedes have taken a V-19 test? The rest is just fear porn from the oligarchy owned media. We control you. I won't wear a mask, when on tv, but YOU must. wtheck is wrong with everyone ?

[runrussellrun]

THIS......this claim (above) It's laughable. You just, very clearly, stated that people going out to eat, in Sweden, are dying. Kept on doing it.

So you don't believe the numbers coming out of Sweden now?

Why?

What numbers? Please provide these numbers, like I requested. Clearly, these "numbers", helped form your opinion that people GOING OUT TO RESTAURANTS, were dying. That is YOUR claims. As if truth. Prove it. Provide the "numbers" that back up your claim.

It's a really simple request. You keep on referring to "numbers", and "belief". For starters, Provide these numbers, that claim the young of Sweden are dying b/c they didin't take social distortion seriously. I define "young", just like the CDC reports do, as anyone 45 years, or younger. Remember, HEALTHY, young people. DYING. Don't care about positives. How many, in the USA, have been "tested" for lymes disease ? At all? Let alone, positive. exactly.

try stating, google is your friend, to the Judge & Jury, and see how well you do

[a fan]

You're moving the goalposts, and adding in the qualifier "young". I made no such qualifiers, and I have NO CLUE why you are.

People over 45 don't matter?

But here you go......restaurants are still open in Sweden.

As for the death statistics...before I give you them, which source is valid for you? Swedish government numbers?


Statistics show roughly half the Swedish workforce is now working from home, public transport usage has fallen by 50% in Stockholm and the capital’s streets are about 70% less busy than usual – but Swedes are still able to shop, go to restaurants, get haircuts and send children under 16 to class even if a family member is ill.

The government’s refusal to close primary and junior high schools – and authorities’ insistence that only children who are themselves ill may stay at home – has caused some families and teachers particular concern, staff and parent groups have said.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... aches-1000

[runrussellrun]

Did you, ever, have a tirade about something OBama did? ever. Or never?

Yes. I was never a fan of his. Obamacare. 08-09 Bailouts where he favored his buddies (unions, etc.). I'm sure I can think of more...but these were ongoing criticisms.

There was little to criticize after Obama's first two years, as I'm sure you remember, because McConnell kept any meaningful legislation from passing for six full years. So what was there to talk about?

However, I was----as I have for Trump----- defending Obama's Middle East war decisions pretty much nonstop. There are no "right moves" in the Middle East.

It's always black N white with you. Weird.

What's the worst that could happen? The middle east has wars? Escalated? So what, we just sell our killing machine products to all three sides. Oh, wait, isnt' that what we do today, anyway? The sales team from Russia IS getting better, tho, so there's that......

What US interests does AFAN and cradle have in Bahgdad. Muslims dont' even drink, do they?

[a fan]

Just because I don't think that there aren't any correct moves, doesn't mean what Obama or Trump or Bush did is my preference.

You know exactly what my preference is.... If i were king, I would NEVER have invaded in 91. Or again in 01.

We wouldn't have one single base in the ME if I were king. And we would have left NATO long ago....


But I'm not king....

[runrussellrun]

You're moving the goalposts, and adding in the qualifier "young". I made no such qualifiers, and I have NO CLUE why you are.

People over 45 don't matter?

But here you go......restaurants are still open in Sweden.

As for the death statistics...before I give you them, which source is valid for you? Swedish government numbers?


Statistics show roughly half the Swedish workforce is now working from home, public transport usage has fallen by 50% in Stockholm and the capital’s streets are about 70% less busy than usual – but Swedes are still able to shop, go to restaurants, get haircuts and send children under 16 to class even if a family member is ill.

The government’s refusal to close primary and junior high schools – and authorities’ insistence that only children who are themselves ill may stay at home – has caused some families and teachers particular concern, staff and parent groups have said.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... aches-1000

SUch weak sauce. Don't see a report from any agency. What is THE GUARDIAN ? Is that an offshoot of Homeland Security?

Show me the age breakdown in the "numbers" ,which you didn't provide, btw. Once again, you talk about the numbers. In a real debate, you would look like a fool. Provide the numbers, not a for profit, infotainment article.

It's simple. you made the claim that people in Sweden were dying. SOme, b/c they decided to go out to eat, like normal. That's it. That is the claim that you made. Regardless of age, or health, what are you basing this claim on? How do you know that if someone dyed, from V-19, they went out to eat?

You made the claime, no one else. You are also moving the nets, changing the parameters, when your claim is simple. SHow us the number that support YOUR claim. That Swedish V-19 dead went out for steak on March 18th. Went to restaurants, as you claim You can't. It doesn't exist.

[seacoaster]

Wonder why stupid is attacking the WHO? It's right out of Roy Cohn's book:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -failures/

President Trump is spinning his new decision to suspend funding to the World Health Organization as an act of decisive leadership — one that showcases his devotion to effective crisis management, to gathering good empirical information, and to holding people accountable for leadership failures that had catastrophic human consequences.

In just about every conceivable way, this is the opposite of the truth.

In making this new move, Trump is inviting us to review the basic timeline of events. And it demonstrates that the WHO, for all its initial failures, was still far ahead of Trump in embracing the need for a comprehensive response to coronavirus.

The timeline also once again illustrates Trump’s epic failures in that regard, and reveals the degree to which Trump is now relying on transparently ridiculous scapegoating to erase his own central role in this catastrophe.

In announcing an end to funding for the WHO, Trump claimed the organization was complicit in China’s early coverup of the outbreak’s severity there. He insisted the WHO “pushed China’s misinformation,” and ripped WHO for “severely mismanaging and covering up the spread.”

Trump also claimed that if not for WHO, “the outbreak could have been contained at its source with very little death.” He lamented that the U.S. can’t rely on WHO for “accurate, timely and independent information to make important public health recommendations and decisions.”

For Trump to position himself in this manner as a spokesperson for crisis management, empiricism and accountability would be positively comical, if the stakes weren’t so monumentally dangerous.

The WHO’s initial mistakes were real, and many critics beyond Trump have pointed to them. The organization was too trusting of China’s early obfuscations about coronavirus, and failed to aggressively push China to be more transparent. The WHO also arguably was too slow to declare a global public health emergency.

But cutting off funding as a punishment is counterproductive and deeply absurd. Indeed, even if you accept that the WHO committed serious errors, the timeline is still far more damning to Trump, by the terms that he himself has set through his criticism of the organization.

The timeline is far more damning to Trump

By Jan. 23, the WHO was already warning that coronavirus could “appear in any country,” and urged all countries to be “prepared for containment” and get ready to exercise “isolation” and “prevention” measures against its spread.

At around the same time, on Jan. 22, Trump was asked point-blank whether he worried about coronavirus’s spread, and he answered: “No, not at all,” insisting it was just “one person coming from China” and that “we have it totally under control.”

And on Jan. 24, Trump hailed China’s “effort” against coronavirus and its “transparency” about it, predicting that “it will all work out well.”

So Trump showed less concern about its spread in countries outside China — including in our own — than the WHO did.

On Jan. 30, the WHO declared coronavirus a global public health emergency. While WHO was still too credulous toward China’s response, WHO also warned that all countries must review “preparedness plans” and take seriously what was coming.

By contrast, on Jan. 30, Trump was directly warned by his Health and Human Services secretary of the threat coronavirus posed. Trump dismissed this as “alarmist.”

And on Feb. 2, Trump boasted to Sean Hannity: “We pretty much shut it down, coming in from China.” He hailed our “tremendous relationship” with that country. Trump continued praising China’s handling of coronavirus all through the entire month of February.

So at the very least, Trump showed precisely the same credulity about China that Trump is now faulting the WHO for showing, but without appreciating the urgency of the international threat coronavirus posed to the degree that the WHO did.

As MSNBC’s Ari Melber aptly put it, these attacks on the WHO are “only calling attention to the fact that the WHO was ahead of President Trump.”

About those travel restrictions

Trump announced restrictions on travel from China on Jan. 31, and he constantly bashes the WHO for disagreeing with this move.

But, while it’s true that the WHO did recommend against restrictions on travel, Trump’s decision simply doesn’t demonstrate anything remotely like what he claims it does.

First, at least 40,000 people traveled to the U.S. from China after this announcement, raising reasonable questions about how much it actually accomplished. More importantly, Trump disastrously squandered the time bought by this decision.

Indeed, Trump utterly failed to use that time to mitigate the spread that was already underway here. As the New York Times damningly documented, plans for a federal system to track the virus were “delayed for weeks,” which, along with the failure to ramp up testing, left officials with “almost no insight” into its spread.

And in late February, Trump privately raged against his own officials’ conclusion that Trump had to communicate the need for strict social distancing measures far more urgently, leading to “crucial additional weeks” in which the “virus spread largely unimpeded.”

Thus, Trump’s constant citation of his travel restrictions actually points to a major failure: The decision persuaded him he had shut out coronavirus successfully, helping spawn the lax posture that produced all that lost time, the horrifying consequences of which are unfolding right now.

Indeed, that decision to this day still continues to delude him into believing he managed this disaster effectively. That’s why he keeps citing it as representative of his glorious, decisive leadership — and contrasting it favorably with the WHO’s response.

Trump is attacking the WHO right now so we’ll talk about the WHO’s shortcomings, and not his own role in this catastrophe. But this blame-shifting utter nonsense, and no one should grant it the slightest shred of credibility."

Our President is the dung on your boots.

[Typical Lax Dad]

You're moving the goalposts, and adding in the qualifier "young". I made no such qualifiers, and I have NO CLUE why you are.

People over 45 don't matter?

But here you go......restaurants are still open in Sweden.

As for the death statistics...before I give you them, which source is valid for you? Swedish government numbers?


Statistics show roughly half the Swedish workforce is now working from home, public transport usage has fallen by 50% in Stockholm and the capital’s streets are about 70% less busy than usual – but Swedes are still able to shop, go to restaurants, get haircuts and send children under 16 to class even if a family member is ill.

The government’s refusal to close primary and junior high schools – and authorities’ insistence that only children who are themselves ill may stay at home – has caused some families and teachers particular concern, staff and parent groups have said.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... aches-1000

SUch weak sauce. Don't see a report from any agency. What is THE GUARDIAN ? Is that an offshoot of Homeland Security?

Show me the age breakdown in the "numbers" ,which you didn't provide, btw. Once again, you talk about the numbers. In a real debate, you would look like a fool. Provide the numbers, not a for profit, infotainment article.

It's simple. you made the claim that people in Sweden were dying. SOme, b/c they decided to go out to eat, like normal. That's it. That is the claim that you made. Regardless of age, or health, what are you basing this claim on? How do you know that if someone dyed, from V-19, they went out to eat?

You made the claime, no one else. You are also moving the nets, changing the parameters, when your claim is simple. SHow us the number that support YOUR claim. That Swedish V-19 dead went out for steak on March 18th. Went to restaurants, as you claim You can't. It doesn't exist.

Show me one person in the USA that died from picking it up at Mardi Gras....just one.

[runrussellrun]

Did you, ever, have a tirade about something OBama did? ever. Or never?

Yes. I was never a fan of his. Obamacare. 08-09 Bailouts where he favored his buddies (unions, etc.). I'm sure I can think of more...but these were ongoing criticisms.

There was little to criticize after Obama's first two years, as I'm sure you remember, because McConnell kept any meaningful legislation from passing for six full years. So what was there to talk about?

However, I was----as I have for Trump----- defending Obama's Middle East war decisions pretty much nonstop. There are no "right moves" in the Middle East.

Interesting, that , for the only time in US history, a sitting Attorney was held in Contempt. FastNfurious, not a big deal correct.

Not the shovel ready lie?

The infrastructure lie ? Has it really been THAT long........or, were issued discussed, coverered, here, on Laxpower, CNN and Rachel Maddow? Like you state, as if fact, that the media IS covering the Joe Biden sex abuse case. Which, remember, theirs a Congressional slush fund to pay off abused, former congressional staffers. NY times article mention that? If I was the desk editor, I would have insisted it be in the story.

AFAN, as you claim, the media coverage is BLOOMING with Joe Biden accussed of, 24/7 coverage. We even have our own thread/topic, about it. geebus H casper........shut off your fecesbook, it's sapping your thoughts. Not joking, it's sad.

[runrussellrun]

You're moving the goalposts, and adding in the qualifier "young". I made no such qualifiers, and I have NO CLUE why you are.

People over 45 don't matter?

But here you go......restaurants are still open in Sweden.

As for the death statistics...before I give you them, which source is valid for you? Swedish government numbers?


Statistics show roughly half the Swedish workforce is now working from home, public transport usage has fallen by 50% in Stockholm and the capital’s streets are about 70% less busy than usual – but Swedes are still able to shop, go to restaurants, get haircuts and send children under 16 to class even if a family member is ill.

The government’s refusal to close primary and junior high schools – and authorities’ insistence that only children who are themselves ill may stay at home – has caused some families and teachers particular concern, staff and parent groups have said.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... aches-1000

SUch weak sauce. Don't see a report from any agency. What is THE GUARDIAN ? Is that an offshoot of Homeland Security?

Show me the age breakdown in the "numbers" ,which you didn't provide, btw. Once again, you talk about the numbers. In a real debate, you would look like a fool. Provide the numbers, not a for profit, infotainment article.

It's simple. you made the claim that people in Sweden were dying. SOme, b/c they decided to go out to eat, like normal. That's it. That is the claim that you made. Regardless of age, or health, what are you basing this claim on? How do you know that if someone dyed, from V-19, they went out to eat?

You made the claime, no one else. You are also moving the nets, changing the parameters, when your claim is simple. SHow us the number that support YOUR claim. That Swedish V-19 dead went out for steak on March 18th. Went to restaurants, as you claim You can't. It doesn't exist.

Show me one person in the USA that died from picking it up at Mardi Gras....just one.

Why? I didn't make the claim.

Oh, I see, this is, like, an exercise. Like what they teach in HIGHschools. You have to defend thoughts, not your own.

[wgdsr]

for a little levity, if that's allowed...

chile's case fatality rate is abnormally low. quickly checking into it to investigate how they may be doing it...
https://www.newsweek.com/chile-counts-t ... th-1497775

if you die in chile, you posthumously make the "recovered" list, as you no longer are contagious! it's not 100% clear whether you definitively make the death populace as well.
also, i guess they've determined once you've recovered, you now have immunity and get a certificate to allow all-access! so we can check that immunity/antibodies box. again, no word on whether the deceased from the recovered group get a certificate to mill about wherever they'd like as well.

goes without saying, if they are in fact "winning" relatively speaking, hope they can keep it up. however they classify.

[ggait]

Regarding Sweden, the claim remains "interesting" , regarding mortality rates.

3R -- Many, like me, are keeping an eye on Sweden to see what the results of their SD lite experiment turn out to be. To be most fair, we'll need to wait until the end of the cycle. Because Sweden is betting that their way (while clearly producing more deaths in the initial phase) will be more sustainable and successful over the longer term.

So a key piece of data is what happens to the conventional lock down countries as they start to open up (which several are now doing). Will they see a second spike?

For now (still middle of the ballgame), Sweden's data sucks and it is getting worse -- today was their worst death day yet (by a lot). Data, not opinion, as of today on per million capita deaths:

UK 190
Sweden 119
USA 86
Denmark 53
Germany 43
Norway 28
Iceland 23
Finland 13

Extremely interesting read comparing the approaches of Sweden and Singapore. Neither did full monty lock down. But Singapore is only at 2 deaths per million capita. If you don't like lock downs, Singapore's tech approach (phone apps to trace contacts, big time testing) is an alternative.

https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main ... key=230288

[a fan]

Interesting, that , for the only time in US history, a sitting Attorney was held in Contempt. FastNfurious, not a big deal correct.

So the game here is that if I don't feel the exact same way you did on any of the millions of issues in the world...I'm wrong. Is that it?

And yep, we discussed that at the Water Cooler.

Not the shovel ready lie?

We discussed that, too.

The infrastructure lie ?.

We discussed that, too. And have under Trump as well.

AFAN, as you claim, the media coverage is BLOOMING with Joe Biden accussed of, 24/7 coverage.

Nope. I claimed outlets picked it up, and no one cares about the story right now.

I wonder why? And if they did cover Biden like you want? You'd be back here complaining that "they didn't cover xyz story" enough. You simply don't understand the circular logic you use on with this stuff. There is no win. No matter what, you complain that something isn't covered right.

If I didn't know any better, you're a lefty, and the bulk of the media is either center, or right.....and shockingly doesn't reflect your worldview. And therefore doesn't cover what you want them to cover...and doesn't cover it to your satisfaction.