JUST the Stolen Documents/Mar-A-Lago/"Judge" Cannon Trial

[old salt]

https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=112614

The Sailor, tested positive for COVID-19 March 30, was removed from the ship and placed in an isolation house on Naval Base Guam with four other USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) Sailors. Like other Sailors in isolation, he received medical checks twice daily from Navy medical teams.

At approximately 8:30 a.m., Apr. 9 (local date), the Sailor was found unresponsive during a daily medical check. While Naval Base Guam emergency responders were notified, CPR was administered by fellow Sailors and onsite medical team in the house. The Sailor was transferred to U.S. Naval Hospital Guam where the Sailor was moved to the Intensive Care Unit (ICU). The Sailor was declared deceased April 13.

[Farfromgeneva]

Not sure why you are grinding on this so hard, I was simply comparing Crozier and Modly as leaders others would want to follow, including in the most dangerous and challenging of situations. Not a close call in my book.

That said, some have actively attempted to slow the response, whether out of stupidity or venality.

It doesn't surprise me that some in the Navy, like everywhere else in our society, would have been taking their cues from the POTUS. And those cues were disastrously wrong.

I'm grinding because you're making sweeping assertions about the entire chain of command, without basis.
If anyone was influenced by Trump, it would only have been Modly & he wold have been acting to keep Trump out of the process.
SecDef, CNO & CJCS recommended waiting for the investigation but they backed Modly if he had lost confidence in one of his carrier COs.
Modly & Crozier occupy different levels in the CoC. One's an operational leader, the other's a organizational leader. Crozier had a lot less to be concerned with than Modly. Crozier was concerned with one crew, Modly - the entire Navy. It's easy to play to the crew in Crozier's position.
I doubt that anyone in the CoC was thinking they needed to keep the crew onboard or were slow getting help to the TR because of Trump.

If the sailor who died was the one found unresponsive in his room & there was a significant delay in getting him medical help, it calls into question the rush to isolate so much of the crew. If they're only checked twice a day, he could have gone 12 hrs or longer without a status check.

Man, you just can't stand to have me agree with you on something...I really wish you would read what I write with some consideration that I might well agree on at least some aspects.

If I made any 'sweeping assertions about the entire chain of command" (which I did not) it was leaning to the positive that lots of folks cared, wanted to do the right thing.

However the cues from above, outside the military, and apparently in Modley's mind were far less urgent.

That's where the foot dragging or dithering or fiddling or whatever someone wants to call it appears to have been happening. The military folks appear to have been attempting to do their jobs, albeit almost no one in authority (and I mean outside the military) was responding to the virus sufficiently urgently. As I said, some of this was just slow, some was grossly slow. It does matter.

On Modly, it's just not a close call, IMO.
He was taking his cues from above.
He got embarrassed and worried about Trump.
He admitted as much to Ignatius on the latter, the embarrassment is my reading into it.

Now, whether this actually came down from the White House through Esper to Modly, I dunno, but as far as you guys are concerned, whatever the Commander in Chief says, it's an order. And orders must be followed. Right away.

Tweets and all?

Are you asserting that Modly, or anyone else in the CoC, was " foot dragging or dithering or fiddling or whatever someone wants to call it " because they were concerned about Trump ? Yes or No ?

I really don't know (nor do you) whether Modly was letting his perceptions about Trump's dismissiveness about COVID-19 impact his judgment as to urgency. Maybe, maybe not. Clearly Crozier thought the process was moving too slowly, not urgently enough. Enough so that he sent up the 'flare'.

What we do know about Modly's mindset is what he subsequently admitted to Ignatius and then his statements to the crew. Beyond that is supposition about the possible.

Unless your ship is sinking there is no need for the flares is there? Captain Crozier had not even seen the iceberg yet before he decided to send up the flares. For the record IMO Modly was a pure weed. He should have and could have waited for a report from the navy brass. i was not aware of his flight to and idiotic speech to the crew of the TR. What a dumb ass move that was.

This is what I wanted to learn from a few of you. Got it from OS earlier but if you’re going to trash Crozier for going outside the chain of command for what none of us know but I believe to be earnestly about his concern for those under him as such an intolerable act that no lesser punishment than removal from command is necessary then how did Modly’s behavior after talking trash and the speech fit the profile of a person in that seat with so much more responsibility for so many men?

You answered, Modly’s post punishment behavior combined with his comments about “too stupid or naive to command” make it clear to me that even if he followed other critical military protocol that he should STFU and go away as I don’t as a civilian want him leading even more of the navy for the welfare of all of those men.

[old salt]

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6148127067001#sp=show-clips

Sounds like Gen Keane is telling us the same you have been telling us OS. Captain Crozier wrote this letter knowing it was going to possibly end his naval career. i am sure that there are folks at CNN willing to pay him a kings ransom to become their expert military analyst. Captain Crozier will land on his feet and do just fine when this is all said and done.

I think it's at least 50:50 that Capt Crozier will be reinstated as CO of the TR.
If that happens, I don't see how he can continue to function with the same Strike Group Commander.

[DocBarrister]

Not sure why you are grinding on this so hard, I was simply comparing Crozier and Modly as leaders others would want to follow, including in the most dangerous and challenging of situations. Not a close call in my book.

That said, some have actively attempted to slow the response, whether out of stupidity or venality.

It doesn't surprise me that some in the Navy, like everywhere else in our society, would have been taking their cues from the POTUS. And those cues were disastrously wrong.

I'm grinding because you're making sweeping assertions about the entire chain of command, without basis.
If anyone was influenced by Trump, it would only have been Modly & he wold have been acting to keep Trump out of the process.
SecDef, CNO & CJCS recommended waiting for the investigation but they backed Modly if he had lost confidence in one of his carrier COs.
Modly & Crozier occupy different levels in the CoC. One's an operational leader, the other's a organizational leader. Crozier had a lot less to be concerned with than Modly. Crozier was concerned with one crew, Modly - the entire Navy. It's easy to play to the crew in Crozier's position.
I doubt that anyone in the CoC was thinking they needed to keep the crew onboard or were slow getting help to the TR because of Trump.

If the sailor who died was the one found unresponsive in his room & there was a significant delay in getting him medical help, it calls into question the rush to isolate so much of the crew. If they're only checked twice a day, he could have gone 12 hrs or longer without a status check.

Man, you just can't stand to have me agree with you on something...I really wish you would read what I write with some consideration that I might well agree on at least some aspects.

If I made any 'sweeping assertions about the entire chain of command" (which I did not) it was leaning to the positive that lots of folks cared, wanted to do the right thing.

However the cues from above, outside the military, and apparently in Modley's mind were far less urgent.

That's where the foot dragging or dithering or fiddling or whatever someone wants to call it appears to have been happening. The military folks appear to have been attempting to do their jobs, albeit almost no one in authority (and I mean outside the military) was responding to the virus sufficiently urgently. As I said, some of this was just slow, some was grossly slow. It does matter.

On Modly, it's just not a close call, IMO.
He was taking his cues from above.
He got embarrassed and worried about Trump.
He admitted as much to Ignatius on the latter, the embarrassment is my reading into it.

Now, whether this actually came down from the White House through Esper to Modly, I dunno, but as far as you guys are concerned, whatever the Commander in Chief says, it's an order. And orders must be followed. Right away.

Tweets and all?

Are you asserting that Modly, or anyone else in the CoC, was " foot dragging or dithering or fiddling or whatever someone wants to call it " because they were concerned about Trump ? Yes or No ?

I really don't know (nor do you) whether Modly was letting his perceptions about Trump's dismissiveness about COVID-19 impact his judgment as to urgency. Maybe, maybe not. Clearly Crozier thought the process was moving too slowly, not urgently enough. Enough so that he sent up the 'flare'.

What we do know about Modly's mindset is what he subsequently admitted to Ignatius and then his statements to the crew. Beyond that is supposition about the possible.

Unless your ship is sinking there is no need for the flares is there? Captain Crozier had not even seen the iceberg yet before he decided to send up the flares. For the record IMO Modly was a pure weed. He should have and could have waited for a report from the navy brass. i was not aware of his flight to and idiotic speech to the crew of the TR. What a dumb ass move that was.

You don’t seem to understand that the USS Theodore Roosevelt had already hit the coronavirus “iceberg” and was taking on water fast. The ship was already “sinking” from the coronavirus.

Thank goodness Capt. Crozier forced the issue and got his crew into port. If he hadn’t, there may have been more than one sailor’s family grieving now, although I am certain the death of the sailor has shaken up the entire crew and their families.

DocBarrister

[old salt]

I really don't know (nor do you) whether Modly was letting his perceptions about Trump's dismissiveness about COVID-19 impact his judgment as to urgency. Maybe, maybe not. Clearly Crozier thought the process was moving too slowly, not urgently enough. Enough so that he sent up the 'flare'.

What we do know about Modly's mindset is what he subsequently admitted to Ignatius and then his statements to the crew. Beyond that is supposition about the possible.

Before you judge Modly's mindset, you need to consider this from someone who knows Modly a lot better than Ignatius does.

[old salt]

The Navy's limitations & plans for the next deploying ships :

https://news.usni.org/2020/04/10/navy-p ... 19-testing

When the Navy next deploys an aircraft carrier, the crew of USS Nimitz (CVN-68) will likely not be tested for COVID-19 before departing, top Pentagon officials confirmed Friday.

A lack of test kits and military testing technology prone to report false negatives means it’s unrealistic for the Navy to attempt testing everyone who boards a ship before deployment, said Thomas McCaffery, the assistant Secretary of Defense for health affairs, during a media briefing.
“You can’t be sure if you test negative that you don’t have the virus,” McCaffery said. “Right now there is a finite capability in terms of kits, the reagents and supplies you need, and so in that environment, we want to make sure we devote those finite resources at the highest priority, and that is to test those showing symptoms, who we need to immediately treat and immediately isolate.”

The entire military is facing the same COVID-19 threat and dealing with the same shortage of accurate tests. However, the Navy has become particularly vulnerable to COVID-19 because of the nature of life on ships.
With Nimitz, the military is hoping to avoid a COVID-19 outbreak by imposing a two-week isolation period restricting the crew inside the skin of the carrier before deployment. The Navy just released a COVID-19 mitigation framework based on what it learned about the spread of COVID-19 from the recent experience of USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71).

“What we’ve learned, certainly in the Navy, is that with regard to COVID 19, we’re learning that stealth in the form of asymptomatic transmission is this adversary’s secret power,” said Rear Adm. Bruce Gillingham, the surgeon general of the Navy, during the briefing. “We recognize despite really our best efforts we’re going to have to learn how to operate with the virus.”

For example, a sailor aboard Nimitz recently reported suffering from COVID-19-like symptoms. The sailor was quickly isolated from the crew. Subsequent testing was inconclusive, but the incident prompted the Navy to conduct contact investigation and additional monitoring of other crew members.

“The constraint of the current testing technology is you may test negative, but the testing is not so accurate to say that you know that, that person is negative,” McCaffery said. “We do know we have folks who are asymptomatic, who may have tested negative, who are infected.”

[old salt]

Thank goodness Capt. Crozier forced the issue and got his crew into port. If he hadn’t, there may have been more than one sailor’s family grieving now, although I am certain the death of the sailor has shaken up the entire crew and their families.

The decision to arrive in Guam 5 days earlier than scheduled was made long before Crozier sent out his email.
He didn't send up his signal flare until 4 days after TR was already back in Guam.
That early return decision was approved all the way up the CoC, as such decisions normally are.

[MDlaxfan76]

Not sure why you are grinding on this so hard, I was simply comparing Crozier and Modly as leaders others would want to follow, including in the most dangerous and challenging of situations. Not a close call in my book.

That said, some have actively attempted to slow the response, whether out of stupidity or venality.

It doesn't surprise me that some in the Navy, like everywhere else in our society, would have been taking their cues from the POTUS. And those cues were disastrously wrong.

I'm grinding because you're making sweeping assertions about the entire chain of command, without basis.
If anyone was influenced by Trump, it would only have been Modly & he wold have been acting to keep Trump out of the process.
SecDef, CNO & CJCS recommended waiting for the investigation but they backed Modly if he had lost confidence in one of his carrier COs.
Modly & Crozier occupy different levels in the CoC. One's an operational leader, the other's a organizational leader. Crozier had a lot less to be concerned with than Modly. Crozier was concerned with one crew, Modly - the entire Navy. It's easy to play to the crew in Crozier's position.
I doubt that anyone in the CoC was thinking they needed to keep the crew onboard or were slow getting help to the TR because of Trump.

If the sailor who died was the one found unresponsive in his room & there was a significant delay in getting him medical help, it calls into question the rush to isolate so much of the crew. If they're only checked twice a day, he could have gone 12 hrs or longer without a status check.

Man, you just can't stand to have me agree with you on something...I really wish you would read what I write with some consideration that I might well agree on at least some aspects.

If I made any 'sweeping assertions about the entire chain of command" (which I did not) it was leaning to the positive that lots of folks cared, wanted to do the right thing.

However the cues from above, outside the military, and apparently in Modley's mind were far less urgent.

That's where the foot dragging or dithering or fiddling or whatever someone wants to call it appears to have been happening. The military folks appear to have been attempting to do their jobs, albeit almost no one in authority (and I mean outside the military) was responding to the virus sufficiently urgently. As I said, some of this was just slow, some was grossly slow. It does matter.

On Modly, it's just not a close call, IMO.
He was taking his cues from above.
He got embarrassed and worried about Trump.
He admitted as much to Ignatius on the latter, the embarrassment is my reading into it.

Now, whether this actually came down from the White House through Esper to Modly, I dunno, but as far as you guys are concerned, whatever the Commander in Chief says, it's an order. And orders must be followed. Right away.

Tweets and all?

Are you asserting that Modly, or anyone else in the CoC, was " foot dragging or dithering or fiddling or whatever someone wants to call it " because they were concerned about Trump ? Yes or No ?

I really don't know (nor do you) whether Modly was letting his perceptions about Trump's dismissiveness about COVID-19 impact his judgment as to urgency. Maybe, maybe not. Clearly Crozier thought the process was moving too slowly, not urgently enough. Enough so that he sent up the 'flare'.

What we do know about Modly's mindset is what he subsequently admitted to Ignatius and then his statements to the crew. Beyond that is supposition about the possible.

OK. You admit you don't know if Trump influenced the urgency with which Modly was getting help to the TR, just that Trump influenced Modly's decision to relieve Crozier. Is that accurate ?

It's not an admission, it's a fact. We don't know.
I never asserted otherwise.
Does it hold water as a supposition, though?
I think so.

BTW, we also don't know that "Trump influenced Modly's decision" as in Trump directed Modly or Trump directed Esper, etc. What we do know is what Modly has admitted, that he was worried about what Trump would think and that he'd get involved, which could make matters only worse. On the other hand, Trump said that Esper was involved...

You're still dodging the rest of the question. Are you asserting that anyone else in the chain of command (other than Modly) was "foot dragging or fiddling or whatever you want to call it" because they were concerned about Trump ? Yes or No ?

No, I'm not asserting such about others, for a couple of reasons. 1) we don't know more than that Crozier felt things weren't moving swiftly enough and that they essentially admitted that they moved faster post flare...which is close, but... 2) we don't know whether they were actually moving too slowly or the communication was just insufficient - though again, they do later indicate that they then moved faster post flare, and 3) we don't know whether they were actually moving as fast as they could but were constrained by Modly...we just don't know with certainty.

Again, we only have what they have said in the conference and what Modly said to Ignatius about what he was thinking and then what Modly said to the crew.

So, I'm not going to assert with any certainty that these other commanders were fouling up, much less that they were thinking about Trump, and Crozier called the whole bunch of them out...we just don't know that to be a fact.

However, we do know that Modly specifically had more on his mind, at least later, about what Trump would think and not so much about 'classified' or the 'mission', much less the wellbeing of the crew.

May have been pre-flare too. Again, mindset.

[DocBarrister]

Thank goodness Capt. Crozier forced the issue and got his crew into port. If he hadn’t, there may have been more than one sailor’s family grieving now, although I am certain the death of the sailor has shaken up the entire crew and their families.

The decision to arrive in Guam 5 days earlier than scheduled was made long before Crozier sent out his email.
He didn't send up his signal flare until 4 days after TR was already back in Guam.
That early return decision was approved all the way up the CoC, as such decisions normally are.

That completely misses the point. Capt. Crozier was getting push back from both Rear Adm. Baker and former Acting Navy Scumbag Modly to evacuate the ship. What good is it to be in port if your sailors are not actually in the port and off the ship? Crozier made the fateful (and absolutely correct) decision to risk his career and send his memo. He turned out to be right. They have evacuated 4,000 crew from the carrier ... just as Crozier had been asking for.

As the article below states, it was Modly who circumvented normal procedures by firing Crozier (despite opposition from senior Navy officers) before an investigation had been completed. Why did Modly do that? Not surprisingly, to appease an impulsive, juvenile, and impatient Donald Trump, who wanted Crozier fired for embarrassing him.

WASHINGTON — The captain had reached a breaking point.

The aircraft carrier he commanded, the Theodore Roosevelt, was docked in Guam as the coronavirus raced unchecked through its narrow corridors. The warship’s doctors estimated that more than 50 crew members would die, but Capt. Brett E. Crozier’s superiors were balking at what they considered his drastic request to evacuate nearly the entire ship.

Captain Crozier was haunted by the Diamond Princess, a cruise ship of 2,600 passengers in individual cabins where the virus had killed eight people and infected more than 700. The situation on his ship had the potential to be far worse: nearly 5,000 sailors crammed in shared berths, sometimes stacked three high. Eight of his sailors with severe Covid-19 symptoms had already been evacuated to the Navy’s hospital in Guam.

On March 30, after four days of rebuffs from his superiors, Captain Crozier sat down to compose an email. “Sailors don’t need to die,” he wrote to 20 other people, all Navy personnel in the Pacific, asking for help. A Naval Academy graduate with nearly 30 years of military service, the captain knew the email would most likely end his career, his friends said in interviews. The military prizes its chain of command, and the appropriate course would have been for the captain to continue to push his superiors for action.

He hit “send” anyway.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/p ... Position=1

Your continued efforts to discredit a career Naval officer acting in the best interests of his crew ... and who turned out to be correct in his judgment ... are simply disgraceful.

DocBarrister

[MDlaxfan76]

The Navy's limitations & plans for the next deploying ships :

https://news.usni.org/2020/04/10/navy-p ... 19-testing

When the Navy next deploys an aircraft carrier, the crew of USS Nimitz (CVN-68) will likely not be tested for COVID-19 before departing, top Pentagon officials confirmed Friday.

A lack of test kits and military testing technology prone to report false negatives means it’s unrealistic for the Navy to attempt testing everyone who boards a ship before deployment, said Thomas McCaffery, the assistant Secretary of Defense for health affairs, during a media briefing.
“You can’t be sure if you test negative that you don’t have the virus,” McCaffery said. “Right now there is a finite capability in terms of kits, the reagents and supplies you need, and so in that environment, we want to make sure we devote those finite resources at the highest priority, and that is to test those showing symptoms, who we need to immediately treat and immediately isolate.”

The entire military is facing the same COVID-19 threat and dealing with the same shortage of accurate tests. However, the Navy has become particularly vulnerable to COVID-19 because of the nature of life on ships.
With Nimitz, the military is hoping to avoid a COVID-19 outbreak by imposing a two-week isolation period restricting the crew inside the skin of the carrier before deployment. The Navy just released a COVID-19 mitigation framework based on what it learned about the spread of COVID-19 from the recent experience of USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71).

“What we’ve learned, certainly in the Navy, is that with regard to COVID 19, we’re learning that stealth in the form of asymptomatic transmission is this adversary’s secret power,” said Rear Adm. Bruce Gillingham, the surgeon general of the Navy, during the briefing. “We recognize despite really our best efforts we’re going to have to learn how to operate with the virus.”

For example, a sailor aboard Nimitz recently reported suffering from COVID-19-like symptoms. The sailor was quickly isolated from the crew. Subsequent testing was inconclusive, but the incident prompted the Navy to conduct contact investigation and additional monitoring of other crew members.

“The constraint of the current testing technology is you may test negative, but the testing is not so accurate to say that you know that, that person is negative,” McCaffery said. “We do know we have folks who are asymptomatic, who may have tested negative, who are infected.”

Yes, we face a distressing lack of testing capability, across the board, including for the military.

This required a major federal response early on.

And yet, we still don't have a federalized response, even today.

[MDlaxfan76]

MD you are going to need a shovel with a longer handle. I am going to have to start calling you "grave digger" yer getting down that deep.

you add so much to the discussion.

[MDlaxfan76]

I really don't know (nor do you) whether Modly was letting his perceptions about Trump's dismissiveness about COVID-19 impact his judgment as to urgency. Maybe, maybe not. Clearly Crozier thought the process was moving too slowly, not urgently enough. Enough so that he sent up the 'flare'.

What we do know about Modly's mindset is what he subsequently admitted to Ignatius and then his statements to the crew. Beyond that is supposition about the possible.

Before you judge Modly's mindset, you need to consider this from someone who knows Modly a lot better than Ignatius does.

I'm glad that Modly has a friend.

[old salt]

Thank goodness Capt. Crozier forced the issue and got his crew into port. If he hadn’t, there may have been more than one sailor’s family grieving now, although I am certain the death of the sailor has shaken up the entire crew and their families.

The decision to arrive in Guam 5 days earlier than scheduled was made long before Crozier sent out his email.
He didn't send up his signal flare until 4 days after TR was already back in Guam.
That early return decision was approved all the way up the CoC, as such decisions normally are.

That completely misses the point. Capt. Crozier was getting push back from both Rear Adm. Baker and former Acting Navy Scumbag Modly to evacuate the ship. What good is it to be in port if your sailors are not actually in the port and off the ship? Crozier made the fateful (and absolutely correct) decision to risk his career and send his memo. He turned out to be right. They have evacuated 4,000 crew from the carrier ... just as Crozier had been asking for.

As the article below states, it was Modly who circumvented normal procedures by firing Crozier (despite opposition from senior Navy officers) before an investigation had been completed. Why did Modly do that? Not surprisingly, to appease an impulsive, juvenile, and impatient Donald Trump, who wanted Crozier fired for embarrassing him.

WASHINGTON — The captain had reached a breaking point.

The aircraft carrier he commanded, the Theodore Roosevelt, was docked in Guam as the coronavirus raced unchecked through its narrow corridors. The warship’s doctors estimated that more than 50 crew members would die, but Capt. Brett E. Crozier’s superiors were balking at what they considered his drastic request to evacuate nearly the entire ship.

Captain Crozier was haunted by the Diamond Princess, a cruise ship of 2,600 passengers in individual cabins where the virus had killed eight people and infected more than 700. The situation on his ship had the potential to be far worse: nearly 5,000 sailors crammed in shared berths, sometimes stacked three high. Eight of his sailors with severe Covid-19 symptoms had already been evacuated to the Navy’s hospital in Guam.

On March 30, after four days of rebuffs from his superiors, Captain Crozier sat down to compose an email. “Sailors don’t need to die,” he wrote to 20 other people, all Navy personnel in the Pacific, asking for help. A Naval Academy graduate with nearly 30 years of military service, the captain knew the email would most likely end his career, his friends said in interviews. The military prizes its chain of command, and the appropriate course would have been for the captain to continue to push his superiors for action.

He hit “send” anyway.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/p ... Position=1

Your continued efforts to discredit a career Naval officer acting in the best interests of his crew ... and who turned out to be correct in his judgment ... are simply disgraceful.

DocBarrister

You misstated your point then. Crozier's flare had nothing to do with TR's early return to Guam. It was a CoC decision.

Give us the details on the rebuffs from his seniors which Crozier continued to receive. It is possible that he was unaware of the efforts already underway to get the increased testing & secure the berthing ashore necessary to get the crew off the ship & into isolation.

It is entirely within the SecNav's prerogative to relieve a CO in whom he has lost confidence, without the concurrence of the CoC below him.

With no evidence, you assert that Modly was pushing back on giving Crozier what he wanted. How ? By having his CoS stay in touch with Crozier & providing him his cell ph# to contact him if he felt he was not getting what he needed. We will likely be informed about this by the VCO's investigation just completed.

I'm not trying to discredit Crozier. I'm looking for the reasons he failed to use the many appropriate channels available to him which would immediately convey his urgent message to all levels of the CoC, without disclosing classified readiness intel & igniting a partisan political & media firestorm which makes dealing with the situation even more difficult, alarms the crew, their families & the citizens of Guam, damages crew morale & undermines good order & discipline. There were channels available to send up an urgent signal flare which Crozier apparently failed to use.

[cradleandshoot]

MD you are going to need a shovel with a longer handle. I am going to have to start calling you "grave digger" yer getting down that deep.

you add so much to the discussion.

You keep adding to the depth of the hole you keep digging. You add nothing to the discussion outside of your ignorance and insulting a career naval officer. I am talking about a person who actually knows and understands the US Navy. You never served, you may have slept at a holiday inn express last night but you are not in the same league as OS when it comes to understanding how the navy works. Your confusing your opinion for actual knowledge. i am picking on you on this very single focused issue. if you were arguing about what it takes to run a successful business, you would have my undivided attention. Why, because you run a successful business. I understand what your opinion is. i have no clue the constant blow back you keep giving to OS. OS has tried repeatedly to enlighten you and you are just too dog gone hard headed to give him the respect he deserves from his career in the navy. It has gone from you not agreeing with him to expending all of your energy to prove he is wrong. i don't understand where you are coming from except to say i respect what OS is saying and on this topic I have zero respect for your opinion. It is your opinion and you are entitled to it. On this one issue you look terribly foolish and almost childish. That is only my opinion and i am entitled to that as well.

[CU77]

Before you judge Modly's mindset, you need to consider this from someone who knows Modly a lot better than Ignatius does.

And what does the friend have to say? This: "Alas, Mr. Modly’s remarks aboard the Roosevelt Monday morning, where he’d traveled to talk to the crew directly about the change in command, went over poorly, even as they were candid and heartfelt."

Yeah, I'm sure that Modly calling Crozier "too naive or too stupid" to be in command was heartfelt all right.

Trumpistas can always be counted on to defend other trumpistas, no matter how staggeringly incompetent they are.

[MDlaxfan76]

MD you are going to need a shovel with a longer handle. I am going to have to start calling you "grave digger" yer getting down that deep.

you add so much to the discussion.

You keep adding to the depth of the hole you keep digging. You add nothing to the discussion outside of your ignorance and insulting a career naval officer. I am talking about a person who actually knows and understands the US Navy. You never served, you may have slept at a holiday inn express last night but you are not in the same league as OS when it comes to understanding how the navy works. Your confusing your opinion for actual knowledge. i am picking on you on this very single focused issue. if you were arguing about what it takes to run a successful business, you would have my undivided attention. Why, because you run a successful business. I understand what your opinion is. i have no clue the constant blow back you keep giving to OS. OS has tried repeatedly to enlighten you and you are just too dog gone hard headed to give him the respect he deserves from his career in the navy. It has gone from you not agreeing with him to expending all of your energy to prove he is wrong. i don't understand where you are coming from except to say i respect what OS is saying and on this topic I have zero respect for your opinion. It is your opinion and you are entitled to it. On this one issue you look terribly foolish and almost childish. That is only my opinion and i am entitled to that as well.

sheesh, cradle, Salty's a big boy and is doing just fine in this conversation without your fawning to help him out.

He DOES add considerably to the discussion with all sorts of insights and information.
And then there are his opinions.

[old salt]

Before you judge Modly's mindset, you need to consider this from someone who knows Modly a lot better than Ignatius does.

And what does the friend have to say? This: "Alas, Mr. Modly’s remarks aboard the Roosevelt Monday morning, where he’d traveled to talk to the crew directly about the change in command, went over poorly, even as they were candid and heartfelt."

Yeah, I'm sure that Modly calling Crozier "too naive or too stupid" to be in command was heartfelt all right.

Trumpistas can always be counted on to defend other trumpistas, no matter how staggeringly incompetent they are.

In choosing his mode of communication, Capt Crozier did not exercise the judgement expected of the CO of a USN ship.
If he did not expect it to find it's way to the media (& thus our adversaries), he is too naive to hold a security clearance or have message releasing authority.
Trump had nothing to do with that.

As I posted earlier, Modly's words to the crew were intemperate & ill-timed,
but they were not inaccurate & were better left unsaid in that forum (imho).

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/fran ... index.html

[RedFromMI]

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/fran ... index.html

I guess that was the gift of a lifetime...

[old salt]

INVESTIGATION WRAPPING UP:
A Navy investigation into the actions of the former commanding officer of the carrier, Capt. Brett Crozier, and the response of his superior officers is expected to be released this week.

A KEY QUESTION: Modly insisted that the letter, which found its way to the San Francisco Chronicle, was a “betrayal” because at the time it was sent, the Navy was already doing everything possible to help the ship.

Modly accused Crozier of blindsiding his immediate boss, Rear Adm. Stuart Baker, commander of the carrier strike group, who was embarked on the Roosevelt “right down the passageway” from Crozier’s stateroom.

But a New York Times report based on what the newspaper says are two dozen current and former Navy and Defense Department civilian and uniformed personnel, including Roosevelt crew members, said Baker overruled Crozier, favoring “less drastic measures” that “would still protect the crew and leave the Roosevelt in operation.”

On April 1, the day before Crozier was fired, Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Michael Gilday, the Navy’s highest officer, acknowledged that there are times a commander going outside the chain of command might be justified.

“They should not be inhibited from telling us and being transparent about the issues that they see, but they need to do it through their chains of command,” Gilday said at a Pentagon press briefing. “And if they're not getting the proper responses from the chains of command, then they need to maybe go outside of it.”

REINSTATING THE COMMANDER: The findings of the investigation could pave the way for Crozier to be reinstated as commanding officer of the Roosevelt — something Gilday, Defense Secretary Mark Esper, and President Trump have not ruled out.

Speaking on CBS This Morning on Friday, Esper said he will rely heavily on Navy leadership. “We've taken nothing off the table. What I look to do is hear from the chain of command. My inclination is always to support the chain of command and to take their recommendations seriously.”

“When I replaced the acting Navy secretary three days ago, I called him and the chief of naval operations into my office,” Esper said. “I gave them some guidance. One of the things I told them is this: No further action will be taken against Capt. Crozier until the investigation is completed. And once that's completed, we'll see where that takes us.”

Good Monday morning, and welcome to Jamie McIntyre’s Daily on Defense, written and compiled by Washington Examiner National Security Senior Writer Jamie McIntyre (@jamiejmcintyre) and edited by David Sivak and Tyler Van Dyke. Email here with tips, suggestions, calendar items, and anything else. Sign up or read current and back issues at DailyonDefense.com. If signing up doesn’t work, shoot us an email, and we’ll add you to our list. And be sure to follow us on Twitter: @dailyondefense.

Based on Trump's news conf today, there's a chance Crozier get's reinstated, Baker get's relieved for not supporting him, & 7th Flt & Pac Flt get reprimanded for not cancelling TR's visit to DaNang. No need for a JAG investigation. Just go with NYT unnamed sources.
American Idol -- Crozier's a folk hero. Baker will be portrayed as Capt Bligh.