All things CoronaVirus

[Peter Brown]

And second, I agree our healthcare system is a complete mess. a fan hates me for saying so, but we need a two-tiered structure similar to Europe. One, a M4A system, but the trade for that is don't expect JHU Hospital/Mass Gen Hospital levels of care. You get what you get and no one gets to sue. But it also does not cost you a direct penny, other than of course it gets paid for by tax dollars (no such thing as a free lunch).

Then, if people wish to pay for a private system, they have that option too. And by directly paying, you will get much better care. This is how it works in Europe.

https://www.vox.com/health-care/2019/2/ ... is-sanders

What are you talking about? Why would I hate you for saying this?

I agree completely that our healthcare system is a mess. And I would have NO PROBLEM signing up for this hybrid system of yours.....

Must have misunderstood.

That would be a good system, PB, if it were permanently funded. The risk ... just a risk ... is that people who purchase private insurance say to hell with paying taxes for universal coverage. Then you get one level of care that is the best in the world and another that is third world ... and an increasing social divide and resentment because of it. It happens in states where education is set up that way (like Hawaii, where public schools are horrible, but Obama went to an incredible private school). I'll vote for your system if it is funded along the lines of Medicare or social security.

PB’s plan is also a variant of Medicare for All. Many if not most Medicare recipients pay for a supplemental private plan that pays for things that Medicare does not cover.

Did not know that Peter Brown was a Bernie Bro!

DocBarrister

Ultimately M4A pays for itself. If you aren’t healthy, you can hardly be expected to be a functioning productive taxpayer. I have one word of caution though: we have to limit lawsuits against medical providers if we go down that road. As a society, there are things we must provide citizens. Healthcare is one.

[runrussellrun]

hindsight is 20/20 and a lot of our posts are not going to age well.
a lot of decisions are not going to age well, on both sides.
that is the nature of pandemics. strategies are oh so much clearer once real data comes in.

+1. Bravo.

6ft, I want to get back to work every bit as much as you do. We'll get there! You should be heartened by the response of your fellow Americans. I know I am. Benefits, fundraisers, sending food to doctors, grandma's like mine making masks as fast as they can.

Someone posted this somewhere, but think of Apollo 13. I hope this is our finest hour.

I am pretty confident that my posts will age well.......AFan you keep stating, as if documented fact, that shutting down our civil rights WAS why.......or was it your first part, paraphrasing here, we guessed wrong

Cue the bio loss climate money grab. Always follow the money,easy

[runrussellrun]

RUN RUN THE SKY IS FALLING! PANIC PANIC EVERYWHERE!

Hospital are laying off workers in the middle of the coronavirus pandemic

Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston is laying off 900 people from its 17,000-person staff and asking full-time salaried employees to take a 15 percent pay cut, according to the Post & Courier; the hospital says it’s not laying off front-line workers at this time.

Essentia Health, a major medical system of clinics and hospitals in Duluth, Minnesota, is laying off 500 workers, per KBJR.

The Cookeville Regional Medical Center in Tennessee will be furloughing 400 of its 2,400-person staff, and a few hundred others will see a cut in their hours, Fox 17 Nashville reports.

Boston Medical Center is furloughing 10 percent of its staff, about 700 people, according to the Boston Globe.

Trinity Health Mid-Atlantic, which runs five hospitals in the Philadelphia area and employs 125,000 people there, will furlough an unspecific percentage of its staff, per the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Mercy Health, the largest health system in Ohio, is temporarily laying off 700 workers.

Two hospital systems in West Virginia are furloughing upward of 1,000 employees combined, Metro News reports.

The largest hospital system in eastern Kentucky is laying off 500 workers, according to the Lexington Herald-Leader.

Seattle’s Army-built field hospital is coming down without treating a single patient
https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/0 ... e-patient/

We have literally shut down not just America, but also many countries around the world.

And you're telling me that you're surprised that this is slowing the virus to a crawl.

Um. This is what's SUPPOSED to happen. The hospitals are SUPPOSED to not be overwhelmed with the virus. Please tell me that you understand this.

Cue the narrative: "you saying 184 countries are wrong?"

Umm. Yes
Hitler WAS real, correct

[ToastDunk]

Oh for f_#k's sake, shut this board down.

I'm sure RRR and PB enjoy the game here, but people are dying.

I get it, you love getting a rise out of people.

But really, F_#k you! Seriously.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Oh for f_#k's sake, shut this board down.

I'm sure RRR and PB enjoy the game here, but people are dying.

I get it, you love getting a rise out of people.

But really, F_#k you! Seriously.

I was thinking about you a couple of hours ago. I ran into the father of the two SEAL boys. Crazy times. All the best to you. Hopefully things get better and we can get together again. Take it easy and shoot me an email.

[Cooter]

Oh for f_#k's sake, shut this board down.

I'm sure RRR and PB enjoy the game here, but people are dying.

I get it, you love getting a rise out of people.

But really, F_#k you! Seriously.

People are always dying in the U.S., I believe around 2.8 million last year.

[youthathletics]

To say China _caused_ this implies active agency by the government to make a pandemic happen. There is NO, repeat NO, actual evidence to this effect.

Just conspiracy theory BS.

I';; ask you the same thing.

Please tell us why the Chinese have not allowed our brilliant minded CDC people to come and support them, when we have offered?

That has nothing to do with the origin. I would say that the Chinese still want to be as secretive as possible about the virus for their own internal politics, and to get "help" from the US (and with Trump at the helm more untrusted than in the past) would be to admit limits to their own power to deal with the problem.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!

Interesting from 6 weeks ago.

[runrussellrun]

Oh for f_#k's sake, shut this board down.

I'm sure RRR and PB enjoy the game here, but people are dying.

I get it, you love getting a rise out of people.

But really, F_#k you! Seriously.

....and, thanks to your mindset, they are dying alone. ...

This isn't a game......our civil rights, the OATH you forget apparently.....long gone. You're cool with it. I'm not.

You are 100% sure that Social Distortion is the reason for the decline?

Yup.....get angry.

The narrative of : Well....2457 country's can't be crazy, only you....WELL. I don't WANT to be other countries. Most of us were lucky enough to have USA priveledge. Not "white" priveledge, but American privilidge. Yes yes, Afan CAN TELL you all about my family civil rights battles.....but...,

anyway...I don't WANT to be like the Phillipines.....or Liberia....or China. I like being a USA citizen. That includes wondering why everything is shut down.....your un-civil tone is indicktive of the narrative.

Take , for example, the claim to go along, to get along. the budlite mentality. Ask yourself, why is Madonna in the RockNroll hall of fame, but Kate Bush is not. Does toastchuck even know who Kate BuSh is ? Any way, better artist, singer, dancer, body, PERSON...........yet NO ONE has heard of her. except for this song, maybe...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjEq-r2agqc

point is, who made the pandemic call?

carry on

[runrussellrun]

Oh for f_#k's sake, shut this board down.

I'm sure RRR and PB enjoy the game here, but people are dying.

I get it, you love getting a rise out of people.

But really, F_#k you! Seriously.

People are always dying in the U.S., I believe around 2.8 million last year.

almost 400 in Baltimore alone. Oh, wait...that was just murders.

Carry on

[holmes435]

American citizens die in the US and abroad from a wide variety of things everyday, from bee stings to terrorism.

Just a reminder that Hillary sat through 11 hours of Senate grilling & testimony over 4 Americans dying in a possibly preventable situation in Benghazi. 18,000 Americans (and growing) are now dead from a possibly preventable situation inside the US.

[kramerica.inc]

NYC
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/we ... ngs-worse/

[kramerica.inc]

American citizens die in the US and abroad from a wide variety of things everyday, from bee stings to terrorism.

Just a reminder that Hillary sat through 11 hours of Senate grilling & testimony over 4 Americans dying in a possibly preventable situation in Benghazi. 18,000 Americans (and growing) are now dead from a possibly preventable situation inside the US.

Preventable how? What would you have done with the super accurate info coming from China?

[kramerica.inc]

Oh for f_#k's sake, shut this board down.

I'm sure RRR and PB enjoy the game here, but people are dying.

I get it, you love getting a rise out of people.

But really, F_#k you! Seriously.

People are always dying in the U.S., I believe around 2.8 million last year.

almost 400 in Baltimore alone. Oh, wait...that was just murders.

Carry on

Baltimore to reduce police numbers next year due to financial overruns. Makes sense.

[holmes435]

American citizens die in the US and abroad from a wide variety of things everyday, from bee stings to terrorism.

Just a reminder that Hillary sat through 11 hours of Senate grilling & testimony over 4 Americans dying in a possibly preventable situation in Benghazi. 18,000 Americans (and growing) are now dead from a possibly preventable situation inside the US.

Preventable how? What would you have done with the super accurate info coming from China?

Look at South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and other places which have done a lot better despite having much closer connections to China. They're prepared for the inaccurate reporting and lies coming out of China. Trump gushes about Xi.

If you're gonna lock down flights, actually lock them down. Ramp up testing immediately and test everyone coming in. In cases of outbreaks, shut down the area ASAP and investigate. Much smaller scale pain, much better return for the buck. We did this with Ebola.

[DocBarrister]

Regrettably ggait, I have only one publication I refuse to click links to and that is The Bulwark; total frauds, non-conservatives backed by quite liberal money making some cash for themselves selling clicks to liberal audiences.

Anyway, I have been turned onto a remarkable Stanford chemist who has been apparently more right on Coronavirus than anyone, Michael Levitt, an American-British-Israeli-South African biophysicist and a professor of structural biology at Stanford University. Levitt received the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for "the development of multiscale models for complex chemical systems"

https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/coronavir ... eate-says/

https://thehill.com/changing-america/we ... experience

This is the same genius (and yeah, he is a genius) who predicted in March that Israel would have ten or fewer total deaths from coronavirus. Israel currently has 95 total deaths and still rising. So, he was a mere order of magnitude off in his estimate.

https://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Nobel-l ... ths-621407

Prof. Levitt understands quantitative modeling and statistics, but he doesn’t know epidemiology and medicine. Classic case of the number whiz not understanding the context of the numbers he’s looking at. He based his modeling on his analysis of China, but didn’t quite appreciate just how extraordinary (and unique) China’s mitigation measures were (and are). Police- and military-enforced shutdowns of entire mega-cities and provinces, and the quarantine of people while they awaited test results ... these were fairly unique to China. Neither Israel, and certainly not the United States, ever implemented such draconian mitigation measures.

As a result, his estimates tend to underestimate the fatalities.

Even Nobel laureates shouldn’t dabble in epidemiology.

DocBarrister

[old salt]

I fear that many regular MSNBC viewers are not going to survive this pandemic. Even if they don't get the virus, they will be so depressed they'll have to end it all. Rachel's interview with the hospital toe tag guy should snag the Emmy for COVID fear porn, ...at least for the first wave.

[ggait]

A death toll of 60,000 should never be viewed as anything other than a catastrophic failure, even considering the nearly two-month delayed response. We should not be on a trajectory even close to that number.

Doc -- some perspective.

When this is all over, the USA will be far from the worst in this pandemic. We also will be far from the best. Our performance is projecting out to be average/bad.

Based on the current data, here's the UW projected per capita death rates of many of our peer OECD countries (per million pop):

Sweden 1,296
Switz 569
UK 560
Spain 383
Italy 333
Belgium 374
Denmark 272
France 235
USA 187
Norway 168
Germany 85

Couldn't find projections for Canada, SK and Japan. But all those would be extremely low.

It would be a win if we can get through this on 60k deaths or less.

Frankly, I bet that the real impact of our too little/too late will be that we'll be saddled with a lot more unemployment, recession and trillions spent than if we had not dithered away.

But many of our peer countries will have screwed this pooch way worse than us -- both healthwise and economy-wise.

[6ftstick]

Regrettably ggait, I have only one publication I refuse to click links to and that is The Bulwark; total frauds, non-conservatives backed by quite liberal money making some cash for themselves selling clicks to liberal audiences.

Anyway, I have been turned onto a remarkable Stanford chemist who has been apparently more right on Coronavirus than anyone, Michael Levitt, an American-British-Israeli-South African biophysicist and a professor of structural biology at Stanford University. Levitt received the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for "the development of multiscale models for complex chemical systems"

https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/coronavir ... eate-says/

https://thehill.com/changing-america/we ... experience

Well Trump is going to have a problem with this. Levitt says the published Chinese numbers are correct.

This can't be right.

Even assuming that the numbers from China represent fraudulent underreporting, we can arbitrarily quadruple or quintuple the numbers reported by China and they would still be better than the data from the United States.

Once again, illustrates the scope of Trump’s colossal failure.

DocBarrister

1,709,414 Wuhan virus cases, 103,257 Wuhan Virus deaths globally. Once again, illustrates the scope of China’s colossal failure.

Are you aware the chinese communists prohibited intracity travel in China but allowed 700K+ Chinese to travel internationally during the month of January. After having been dealing with the Wuhan Virus since November. Happy New Year.

[Trinity]

https://twitter.com/olganyc1211/status/ ... 62240?s=21

Russian ambulances line up.

[cradleandshoot]

There are rumblings here in the King Andy empire that the good king has fallen in love with all of the government restrictions he has put in place. Yesterday he ordered all golf course and boat launches state wide shut down till he says otherwise. So putting your canoe in the water to paddle around the lake is now detrimental to world health. The new world of King Andy if you want to play some golf... F**k you my little peasants, stay home and play golf on your playstation. I guarantee that here in Andy's Kingdom of New York many of the freedoms we had will be gone forever. I know many of you out there think i am exaggerating. When you understand who King Andy is, he gets his rocks off having this kind of power. The power to tell you when you can golf, go to the park, paddle your canoe hell he even wants to tell you when you can take a walk around the block. It sure is good to be King, aint it Andy?