Mostly the same, but a few additional bad actors stoking things.ChairmanOfTheBoard wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:13 am we tried so hard- so very hard- for many many years to keep this kind of garbage out of LP. unfortunately, FL has been infected.
the irony is it's mostly the same members.
All things CoronaVirus
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Re: All things COVID-19
So in hindsight (for lessons learned), when should we have closed all our borders (except for isolating returning US citizens & legal residents) ?RedFromMI wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:25 pmI think the biggest single factor of where outbreaks occurred first is where there is a lot of air travel in general. There may be an effect on the W coast due to the higher number of Chinese people in/out of that region, but the best explanation for how the West has done better is mostly due to the fact that they locked things down where the outbreaks were occurring earlier (like SF).old salt wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:12 pm...but, but the WHO told us that travel restrictions don't help.RedFromMI wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:10 amhttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/scie ... e=HomepageMost New York Coronavirus Cases Came From Europe, Genomes Show
Travelers seeded multiple cases starting as early as mid-February, genomes show.
Fascinating article - with lots of explanation about the genetics and changes in coding they were tracking. Also shows why the travel ban to China was not really effective at all...New research indicates that the coronavirus began to circulate in the New York area by mid-February, weeks before the first confirmed case, and that travelers brought in the virus mainly from Europe, not Asia.
“The majority is clearly European,” said Harm van Bakel, a geneticist at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, who co-wrote a study awaiting peer review.
A separate team at N.Y.U. Grossman School of Medicine came to strikingly similar conclusions, despite studying a different group of cases. Both teams analyzed genomes from coronaviruses taken from New Yorkers starting in mid-March.
The research revealed a previously hidden spread of the virus that might have been detected if aggressive testing programs had been put in place.
On Jan. 31, President Trump barred foreign nationals from entering the country if they had been in China during the prior two weeks.
It would not be until late February that Italy would begin locking down towns and cities, and March 11 when Mr. Trump said he would block travelers from most European countries. But New Yorkers had already been traveling home with the virus.
“People were just oblivious,” said Adriana Heguy, a member of the N.Y.U. team.
Dr. Heguy and Dr. van Bakel belong to an international guild of viral historians. They ferret out the history of outbreaks by poring over clues embedded in the genetic material of viruses taken from thousands of patients.
So the earlier travel restriction on China travel does not factor into the lower rates on the W Coast ?
The problem with the China travel ban is that it had tons of loopholes, and because Trump was so worried about not affecting the economy he would not either institute a bigger ban until too late, or never really considered measures like taking arriving passenger's temperatures, etc. A lot of the early treatment for incomings was to tell them to isolate for 14 days with no further followup.
Compound that with the failures to get mass testing stood up pronto (still a failure to this day) and you have just allowed the disease to incubate/spread widely. No room for error when you have up to five days of symptom free time before symptoms, and also an unknown percentage (again because we are still failing on testing) of asymptomatic carriers. A recipe for the disaster we currently see.
If you want to see how to do it right - look at New Zealand.
What event(s) in China should have triggered such drastic measures ?
Re: All things COVID-19
I think better screening would have been the best choice. Even restricting to just returning citizens/residents were bound to bring in the virus (and given its pathology fairly quickly).
Standing up testing like SK - using the WHO test, no matter how imperfect (it has been shown that even a quite imperfect test can lead to tamping down outbreaks) until our own was ready as well as getting private companies to respond (use the DPA if necessary) would have in my mind been a better approach.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Well bust my buttons.
That idiot Trump is right again
https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/08/tr ... tor-needs/
Cuomo was upset that the Trump administration had not acquiesced to his request and asked them to “pick the 26,000 people who are going to die.”
Here’s the tweet from Aaron Rupar of Vox, who said “Trump’s coronavirus comments to Hannity were a mix of ignorance and malevolence that set the stage for preventable deaths in blue states”:
the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation show that New York already reached its peak projected ventilator usage on April 8, with a projected need of 5,008. The actual use may have been even lower.
That idiot Trump is right again
https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/08/tr ... tor-needs/
Cuomo was upset that the Trump administration had not acquiesced to his request and asked them to “pick the 26,000 people who are going to die.”
Here’s the tweet from Aaron Rupar of Vox, who said “Trump’s coronavirus comments to Hannity were a mix of ignorance and malevolence that set the stage for preventable deaths in blue states”:
the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation show that New York already reached its peak projected ventilator usage on April 8, with a projected need of 5,008. The actual use may have been even lower.
Last edited by 6ftstick on Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Another nice story.....
A distillery owner friend of mine got a thank you letter from Trump for making sanitizer and giving it away to first responders and hospitals.
A distillery owner friend of mine got a thank you letter from Trump for making sanitizer and giving it away to first responders and hospitals.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
That first number was from some time ago, and the IHME model quoted is actually more optimistic than the UPenn Chime model, which is what Cuomo is going by. Both models have been updated many times since the original predictions.6ftstick wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:41 pm Well bust my buttons.
That idiot Trump is right again
https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/08/tr ... tor-needs/
Cuomo was upset that the Trump administration had not acquiesced to his request and asked them to “pick the 26,000 people who are going to die.”
But it is less Trump being right than the SD/shutdowns having a bigger effect than first predicted. And if Trump had acted in a timely manner that ventilator number would not be an issue and we would be seeing a death count a factor of 10 lower.
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MDlaxfan76
- Posts: 27057
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Seems to me that our retrospective view would be that travel restrictions were helpful, though clearly insufficient.
Heck the Chinese locked down Wuhan then Hubei travel, harshly, once they came to grips with the problem. That helped save Shanghai and other parts of China. Those restrictions were certainly considered helpful, albeit draconian enforcement. It was too late, but nevertheless a positive.
We never locked down any part of the US interstate travel, which in retrospect may have been a mistake.
We did restrict some travel from China, and that looks like it was at least helpful in giving us more of a window, but it was obviously too late to prevent it having landed on shore and spreading person to person geometrically (400k travelers from Wuhan area alone in prior month to US). Likewise the Europe restrictions were at least 'helpful'. But too late and insufficient.
Not only did we not actually stop travel, we failed miserably to even test those being allowed to travel in-bound, not even temperature.
My son and his girlfriend traveled to Thailand last week of January for scheduled vacation. Wore masks as did all passengers. They were temp tested on landing in Thailand. Last week of Jan.
17 days later they flew from remote area of Thailand to Bangkok then to Hong Kong then to Chicago then to Ft Lauderdale. Wore masks the whole way, as did all those in the Asian stops, until coming to the US when only partially masked (those like my son and girlfriend were appalled that not all were). Despite plenty of security at each step, never once temperature tested, much less CV-19 tested. Not before they got on the plane to Chicago, not when they landed.
Now, they were pretty darn careful and were very likely not carriers when they left Thailand, but they passed through several crowded airports in regions where spread had definitely begun. Easily could have picked it up despite their care. And lots of passengers were definitely not as careful.
So, the idea was right, but the timing was too late and the execution terrible.
Heck the Chinese locked down Wuhan then Hubei travel, harshly, once they came to grips with the problem. That helped save Shanghai and other parts of China. Those restrictions were certainly considered helpful, albeit draconian enforcement. It was too late, but nevertheless a positive.
We never locked down any part of the US interstate travel, which in retrospect may have been a mistake.
We did restrict some travel from China, and that looks like it was at least helpful in giving us more of a window, but it was obviously too late to prevent it having landed on shore and spreading person to person geometrically (400k travelers from Wuhan area alone in prior month to US). Likewise the Europe restrictions were at least 'helpful'. But too late and insufficient.
Not only did we not actually stop travel, we failed miserably to even test those being allowed to travel in-bound, not even temperature.
My son and his girlfriend traveled to Thailand last week of January for scheduled vacation. Wore masks as did all passengers. They were temp tested on landing in Thailand. Last week of Jan.
17 days later they flew from remote area of Thailand to Bangkok then to Hong Kong then to Chicago then to Ft Lauderdale. Wore masks the whole way, as did all those in the Asian stops, until coming to the US when only partially masked (those like my son and girlfriend were appalled that not all were). Despite plenty of security at each step, never once temperature tested, much less CV-19 tested. Not before they got on the plane to Chicago, not when they landed.
Now, they were pretty darn careful and were very likely not carriers when they left Thailand, but they passed through several crowded airports in regions where spread had definitely begun. Easily could have picked it up despite their care. And lots of passengers were definitely not as careful.
So, the idea was right, but the timing was too late and the execution terrible.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Actually no - even I would appreciate such thanks (and I think Trump is NOT a good president). But if someone says thank you the best response is to say "You're welcome."
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Not at all! I'd be honored to get a letter from our President!
Recall, if you will, various sports teams refusing their White House visits under both Obama and Trump.
I told you at the time that i'd be honored to accept that invitation. Respect the office. And respect someone taking the time to thank you!
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runrussellrun
- Posts: 7583
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:07 am
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Been spending time with my big box of RAW's.....handing out lots and lots, for free of course. A friend with weed is a friend indeed. Not even Rae Dawn's (oh, was she hot ) dad can't consume over 20 pounds of homegrown. the cookiesnchem was tested at 38% THC. Our "co-op" has distributed and estimated 40 pounds to anyone that wants it. All for free. Will tRump send US a letter?
talk about essential
https://rawthentic.com/cones/
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Ummm, did you forget about this friend??????
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
March 27-30th—some time ago!RedFromMI wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:45 pmThat first number was from some time ago, and the IHME model quoted is actually more optimistic than the UPenn Chime model, which is what Cuomo is going by. Both models have been updated many times since the original predictions.6ftstick wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:41 pm Well bust my buttons.
That idiot Trump is right again
https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/08/tr ... tor-needs/
Cuomo was upset that the Trump administration had not acquiesced to his request and asked them to “pick the 26,000 people who are going to die.”
But it is less Trump being right than the SD/shutdowns having a bigger effect than first predicted. And if Trump had acted in a timely manner that ventilator number would not be an issue and we would be seeing a death count a factor of 10 lower.
Re: All things COVID-19
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... s-warning/The Plum Line
Opinion
As Trump’s failures mount, one governor sounds an ominous warning
One person who is well positioned to shed light on what all this means is Gov. Jay Inslee of Washington state. His state was an initial epicenter, but there are signs the curve is flattening, which means Inslee both has extensive experience of how federal failures hampered the response and is already contemplating what comes next.
In an interview, Inslee, a Democrat, shared fresh details on how President Trump’s lack of “urgency” is directly contributing to equipment shortages hobbling response efforts — and hinted at an alarming scenario ahead.
“What we need now, what won World War II, was a quartermaster,” Inslee said. “That’s how you win wars. That’s what we need — a quartermaster.”
Recently, Trump was directly confronted with glaring evidence of this. His own administration released a report documenting urgent shortages faced by hospital administrators around the country, who offered constructive suggestions on how the federal government can help save American lives.
In response, Trump lashed out in a rage, and pretended those problems are simply nonexistent.
Needless to say, that’s not the quartermaster we need.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Nope, eat more cats. When you microwave them, kills the CV.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
We need Ruth from Ozarks asking the questions in these WH press conferences.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
In case someone missed it, COVID-19 is now the leading cause of death in the US. In the height of a really really bad flu season we lose at most 500 per day. COVID-19 is now just under 2000 per day.
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Peter Brown
- Posts: 12878
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
You should let pensioneers, 401k holders, and general stock market investors know about all your negative news; it's up another 2.5% today. What are those morons thinking!!!!
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MDlaxfan76
- Posts: 27057
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm
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seacoaster
- Posts: 8866
- Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
What is the point of this response? Do you not know you sound like a moron?Peter Brown wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:33 pm
You should let pensioneers, 401k holders, and general stock market investors know about all your negative news; it's up another 2.5% today. What are those morons thinking!!!!