All things CoronaVirus

[6ftstick]

Total dependency. Communism. Totalitarianism for 320 million to save 200 thousand octogenarians. Fk that.

The true irony of this post? It reflects a utilitarian view of the world where certain people (octogenarians) are viewed as worth sacrificing for the greater good.

In the real word, what were the most prominent utilitarian societies? That would be the communist, totalitarian regimes in Stalin’s USSR and Mao’s China. In those societies, many vulnerable individuals were indeed sacrificed for the purported “greater good” (in truth, for the elite oligarchs).

Now, to be fair, public health policies are often derived from utilitarian concepts (e.g., mandatory vaccinations). This is very different from medicine, which is focused on protecting and treating individual patients.

Still, the irony here is amusing. While condemning communism and totalitarianism, 6ftstick promoted utilitarianism ... the conceptual foundation of ... yep, communism and totalitarianism.

Oh, the irony.

DocBarrister

I'm a boomer skippy. I'm in the high risk group.

I'll give you odds the majority of the people you think I want "Sacrificed" feel the same way I do.

Americans don't want to be dependent. Americans don't want communism or its little sister socialism.

Don't you love it when he says "PM me and I'll bother with you if YOU'RE civil."

[CU88]

Trump says his own impeachment “distracted” him from the Coronavirus response.

Let’s be clear: He was never distracted. He just didn’t care

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHjJydZO99A

[6ftstick]

Total dependency. Communism. Totalitarianism for 320 million to save 200 thousand octogenarians. Fk that.

The true irony of this post? It reflects a utilitarian view of the world where certain people (octogenarians) are viewed as worth sacrificing for the greater good.

In the real word, what were the most prominent utilitarian societies? That would be the communist, totalitarian regimes in Stalin’s USSR and Mao’s China. In those societies, many vulnerable individuals were indeed sacrificed for the purported “greater good” (in truth, for the elite oligarchs).

Now, to be fair, public health policies are often derived from utilitarian concepts (e.g., mandatory vaccinations). This is very different from medicine, which is focused on protecting and treating individual patients.

Still, the irony here is amusing. While condemning communism and totalitarianism, 6ftstick promoted utilitarianism ... the conceptual foundation of ... yep, communism and totalitarianism.

Oh, the irony.

DocBarrister

I'm a boomer skippy. I'm in the high risk group.

I'll give you odds the majority of the people you think I want "Sacrificed" feel the same way I do.

Americans don't want to be dependent. Americans don't want communism or its little sister socialism.

Don't you love it when he says "PM me and I'll bother with you if YOU'RE civil."

Thank God Eisenhower had braver men on his staff. Estimates were nearly 40% casualties on D-Day. You would have been advising him to forget the invasion. Lets just throw money at the Nazis. Maybe they'd be nice.

[runrussellrun]

Man....this is from 2003. 17 years ago.

https://jvi.asm.org/content/82/5/2274

In 2003, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) emerged and caused over 8,000 human
cases of infection and more than 700 deaths worldwide. Zoonotic SARS-CoV likely evolved to infect humans by
a series of transmission events between humans and animals for sale in China. Using synthetic biology, we
engineered the spike protein (S) from a civet strain, SZ16, into our epidemic strain infectious clone, creating
the chimeric virus icSZ16-S, which was infectious but yielded progeny viruses incapable of propagating in vitro.
After introducing a K479N mutation within the S receptor binding domain (RBD) of SZ16, the recombinant
virus (icSZ16-S K479N) replicated in Vero cells but was severely debilitated in growth. The in vitro evolution
of icSZ16-S K479N on human airway epithelial (HAE) cells produced two viruses (icSZ16-S K479N D8 and
D22) with enhanced growth on HAE cells and on delayed brain tumor cells expressing the SARS-CoV receptor,
human angiotensin I converting enzyme 2 (hACE2). The icSZ16-S K479N D8 and D22 virus RBDs contained
mutations in ACE2 contact residues, Y442F and L472F, that remodeled S interactions with hACE2. Further,
these viruses were neutralized by a human monoclonal antibody (MAb), S230.15, but the parent icSZ16-S
K479N strain was eight times more resistant than the mutants. These data suggest that the human adaptation
of zoonotic SARS-CoV strains may select for some variants that are highly susceptible to select MAbs that bind
to RBDs. The epidemic, icSZ16-S K479N, and icSZ16-S K479N D22 viruses replicate similarly in the BALB/c
mouse lung, hig

[MDlaxfan76]

Total dependency. Communism. Totalitarianism for 320 million to save 200 thousand octogenarians. Fk that.

The true irony of this post? It reflects a utilitarian view of the world where certain people (octogenarians) are viewed as worth sacrificing for the greater good.

In the real word, what were the most prominent utilitarian societies? That would be the communist, totalitarian regimes in Stalin’s USSR and Mao’s China. In those societies, many vulnerable individuals were indeed sacrificed for the purported “greater good” (in truth, for the elite oligarchs).

Now, to be fair, public health policies are often derived from utilitarian concepts (e.g., mandatory vaccinations). This is very different from medicine, which is focused on protecting and treating individual patients.

Still, the irony here is amusing. While condemning communism and totalitarianism, 6ftstick promoted utilitarianism ... the conceptual foundation of ... yep, communism and totalitarianism.

Oh, the irony.

DocBarrister

I'm a boomer skippy. I'm in the high risk group.

I'll give you odds the majority of the people you think I want "Sacrificed" feel the same way I do.

Americans don't want to be dependent. Americans don't want communism or its little sister socialism.

Don't you love it when he says "PM me and I'll bother with you if YOU'RE civil."

Thank God Eisenhower had braver men on his staff. Estimates were nearly 40% casualties on D-Day. You would have been advising him to forget the invasion. Lets just throw money at the Nazis. Maybe they'd be nice.

That's your analogy 6ft?
Really?

[runrussellrun]

Total dependency. Communism. Totalitarianism for 320 million to save 200 thousand octogenarians. Fk that.

The true irony of this post? It reflects a utilitarian view of the world where certain people (octogenarians) are viewed as worth sacrificing for the greater good.

In the real word, what were the most prominent utilitarian societies? That would be the communist, totalitarian regimes in Stalin’s USSR and Mao’s China. In those societies, many vulnerable individuals were indeed sacrificed for the purported “greater good” (in truth, for the elite oligarchs).

Now, to be fair, public health policies are often derived from utilitarian concepts (e.g., mandatory vaccinations). This is very different from medicine, which is focused on protecting and treating individual patients.

Still, the irony here is amusing. While condemning communism and totalitarianism, 6ftstick promoted utilitarianism ... the conceptual foundation of ... yep, communism and totalitarianism.

Oh, the irony.

DocBarrister

I'm a boomer skippy. I'm in the high risk group.

I'll give you odds the majority of the people you think I want "Sacrificed" feel the same way I do.

Americans don't want to be dependent. Americans don't want communism or its little sister socialism.

Don't you love it when he says "PM me and I'll bother with you if YOU'RE civil."

Thank God Eisenhower had braver men on his staff. Estimates were nearly 40% casualties on D-Day. You would have been advising him to forget the invasion. Lets just throw money at the Nazis. Maybe they'd be nice.

Many money in the US loved them some FAsCISM in the 1930's, lest we forget.

We know......with even 50% certainty, that the "social distancing" is the reason for the lack of increasing deaths?

And, will ask again. Alcohol...a problem SO BAD that we had to have a US Constitutional amendment to ban it. It's one of the top killers in the USA.

Yet, it is deemed e$$ential as a business to operate.

And your telling us to take this $eriou$ly? I can't even buy new running shoes or hiking boots at a store. One of the best shoe stores in the world. Sorry, feet aren't essential http://www.alecs-shoes.com/

[jhu72]

Domestic abuse on the rise.

[jhu72]

Nursing Home staff stops showing up.

[Peter Brown]

If you want to hear the positive news about beating this virus, you can find it in certain media every day; unfortunately you need to do the hunting yourself, since it doesn't show up on the front pages of most large American media (and is almost never discussed by the MSM on television). Actually, most American media go out of their way to downplay the inventions and hopes; that's the weirdest thing, almost like they want the virus to wreck a society. You can sometimes see what Trump means by 'fake news' or 'anti-American'...most of our media are negative nabobs whose heart is obviously with Democrats.

Anyway, a vaccine will roll out much sooner than people predict. Every company in the world in the space of healthcare is racing to be the one to find the 'cure'. Never underestimate human ingenuity; humans always win. See below for a good primer.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/08/coronavir ... a-vaccine/

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/apr/08/l ... ected-fir/

Now for media hit pieces that say, ahhh forget it, it'll never work, we're doomed:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... us-vaccine

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/09/safety- ... xpert.html

[6ftstick]

Fascinating——liberal progressives that hate Borders

See steps taken like this
https://www.abc4.com/news/drivers-enter ... WWfYZ4XTyE

And borders around each business

Borders around our homes

and a 6 ft border around each of us and SAY YEH LETS DO THIS FOR 12 MORE MONTHS

[RedFromMI]

If you want to hear the positive news about beating this virus, you can find it in certain media every day; unfortunately you need to do the hunting yourself, since it doesn't show up on the front pages of most large American media (and is almost never discussed by the MSM on television). Actually, most American media go out of their way to downplay the inventions and hopes; that's the weirdest thing, almost like they want the virus to wreck a society. You can sometimes see what Trump means by 'fake news' or 'anti-American'...most of our media are negative nabobs whose heart is obviously with Democrats.

Anyway, a vaccine will roll out much sooner than people predict. Every company in the world in the space of healthcare is racing to be the one to find the 'cure'. Never underestimate human ingenuity; humans always win. See below for a good primer.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/08/coronavir ... a-vaccine/

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/apr/08/l ... ected-fir/

Now for media hit pieces that say, ahhh forget it, it'll never work, we're doomed:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... us-vaccine

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/09/safety- ... xpert.html

From the nypost article you quoted:

“If everything went perfectly, well, [it would take] 18 months to two years minimum,” says Dr. Kevin Tracey, president of the Feinstein Institutes for Medical Research at Northwell Health. “More realistically, three to four years and that would still be fast.”

and

When it comes to vaccine development, once the human testing phase begins, scientists first have to determine if the vaccine causes an antibody response, Tracey tells The Post. Next, scientists have to see if the produced antibodies are effective against the virus. Then, of course, researchers have to make sure the antibodies aren’t dangerous.

“Some people make good antibodies and some people make bad ones, and some people can make both,” Tracey says. “Bad antibodies can make the infection worse.”

For example, if you immunize 1,000 people with a vaccine that protects 900 of them, but it makes 100 people worse, that’s a disaster, Tracey says.

“You can’t make the clock run faster,” Tracey says. “You can’t rush these things. A vaccine is going in healthy people. It has to have almost zero side effects.”

From the Bloomberg article:

The time frame the U.S. government has given out, of having a shot within 12 to 18 months, has drawn skepticism from many vaccine experts. “You would have to have everything go perfectly to get there,” says Seth Berkley, chief executive officer of the nonprofit Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance, which helps developing countries finance and distribute vaccines. “The most important thing is to have people understand that science is miraculous and can make things happen but it isn’t going to happen tomorrow.”

Do you even read what you link to? Or does your reading comprehension have some issues?

[MDlaxfan76]

good lord PB, every single show on MSM includes discussion of the positives of the physical distancing and how there are now some quite real signs that it's working to 'bend the curve'. Lots of enthusiasm.

But also warnings that the experts also say that premature release of the restrictions means a huge rebound...and they provide a roadmap of when and how restrictions can be dialed back. All positive.

There are also frequently people discussing the possible therapies, very much in positive terms.
Their emphasis is on the types of therapies that actually have some serious promise, many of which have begun testing.

Gates was just on CNBC...always so refreshing to hear someone so smart, so well informed, so in the know on this topic actually discuss what is known and what isn't.

He didn't want to be impolitic, but it was very clear that he's saying we need a variety of capacities we do not have yet with testing, including a national prioritization of who gets tested and fast. More than 24 hour wait, whether to test or to get an answer, is a system failure. Doesn't have to be the case, but he sees no interest at the federal level for the kind of coordination necessary to get there.

On therapies, again he didn't want to be impolitic, but it was clear that the touted stuff is showing little to no promise in human testing, but that there's a whole bunch of compounds and processes that haven't been touted that are...he sounds confident that one or more will have significant efficacy...eventually.

[youthathletics]

Domestic abuse on the rise.

He77...we see it here everyday.

[youthathletics]

Positive vibes for further success in this viral study: https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/earl ... ed.abb5883

[RedFromMI]

Most New York Coronavirus Cases Came From Europe, Genomes Show

Travelers seeded multiple cases starting as early as mid-February, genomes show.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/scie ... e=Homepage

New research indicates that the coronavirus began to circulate in the New York area by mid-February, weeks before the first confirmed case, and that travelers brought in the virus mainly from Europe, not Asia.

“The majority is clearly European,” said Harm van Bakel, a geneticist at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, who co-wrote a study awaiting peer review.

A separate team at N.Y.U. Grossman School of Medicine came to strikingly similar conclusions, despite studying a different group of cases. Both teams analyzed genomes from coronaviruses taken from New Yorkers starting in mid-March.

The research revealed a previously hidden spread of the virus that might have been detected if aggressive testing programs had been put in place.

On Jan. 31, President Trump barred foreign nationals from entering the country if they had been in China during the prior two weeks.

It would not be until late February that Italy would begin locking down towns and cities, and March 11 when Mr. Trump said he would block travelers from most European countries. But New Yorkers had already been traveling home with the virus.

“People were just oblivious,” said Adriana Heguy, a member of the N.Y.U. team.

Dr. Heguy and Dr. van Bakel belong to an international guild of viral historians. They ferret out the history of outbreaks by poring over clues embedded in the genetic material of viruses taken from thousands of patients.

Fascinating article - with lots of explanation about the genetics and changes in coding they were tracking. Also shows why the travel ban to China was not really effective at all...

[RedFromMI]

Positive vibes for further success in this viral study: https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/earl ... ed.abb5883

Note that while positive, the studies were only in human lung tissue cell cultures and animals - not living human beings. So could take some time to evaluate this one for human safety.

[seacoaster]

Most New York Coronavirus Cases Came From Europe, Genomes Show

Travelers seeded multiple cases starting as early as mid-February, genomes show.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/scie ... e=Homepage

New research indicates that the coronavirus began to circulate in the New York area by mid-February, weeks before the first confirmed case, and that travelers brought in the virus mainly from Europe, not Asia.

“The majority is clearly European,” said Harm van Bakel, a geneticist at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, who co-wrote a study awaiting peer review.

A separate team at N.Y.U. Grossman School of Medicine came to strikingly similar conclusions, despite studying a different group of cases. Both teams analyzed genomes from coronaviruses taken from New Yorkers starting in mid-March.

The research revealed a previously hidden spread of the virus that might have been detected if aggressive testing programs had been put in place.

On Jan. 31, President Trump barred foreign nationals from entering the country if they had been in China during the prior two weeks.

It would not be until late February that Italy would begin locking down towns and cities, and March 11 when Mr. Trump said he would block travelers from most European countries. But New Yorkers had already been traveling home with the virus.

“People were just oblivious,” said Adriana Heguy, a member of the N.Y.U. team.

Dr. Heguy and Dr. van Bakel belong to an international guild of viral historians. They ferret out the history of outbreaks by poring over clues embedded in the genetic material of viruses taken from thousands of patients.

Fascinating article - with lots of explanation about the genetics and changes in coding they were tracking. Also shows why the travel ban to China was not really effective at all...

Seventy days.

[jhu72]

If you want to hear the positive news about beating this virus, you can find it in certain media every day; unfortunately you need to do the hunting yourself, since it doesn't show up on the front pages of most large American media (and is almost never discussed by the MSM on television). Actually, most American media go out of their way to downplay the inventions and hopes; that's the weirdest thing, almost like they want the virus to wreck a society. You can sometimes see what Trump means by 'fake news' or 'anti-American'...most of our media are negative nabobs whose heart is obviously with Democrats.

Anyway, a vaccine will roll out much sooner than people predict. Every company in the world in the space of healthcare is racing to be the one to find the 'cure'. Never underestimate human ingenuity; humans always win. See below for a good primer.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/08/coronavir ... a-vaccine/

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/apr/08/l ... ected-fir/

Now for media hit pieces that say, ahhh forget it, it'll never work, we're doomed:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... us-vaccine

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/09/safety- ... xpert.html

From the nypost article you quoted:

“If everything went perfectly, well, [it would take] 18 months to two years minimum,” says Dr. Kevin Tracey, president of the Feinstein Institutes for Medical Research at Northwell Health. “More realistically, three to four years and that would still be fast.”

and

When it comes to vaccine development, once the human testing phase begins, scientists first have to determine if the vaccine causes an antibody response, Tracey tells The Post. Next, scientists have to see if the produced antibodies are effective against the virus. Then, of course, researchers have to make sure the antibodies aren’t dangerous.

“Some people make good antibodies and some people make bad ones, and some people can make both,” Tracey says. “Bad antibodies can make the infection worse.”

For example, if you immunize 1,000 people with a vaccine that protects 900 of them, but it makes 100 people worse, that’s a disaster, Tracey says.

“You can’t make the clock run faster,” Tracey says. “You can’t rush these things. A vaccine is going in healthy people. It has to have almost zero side effects.”

From the Bloomberg article:

The time frame the U.S. government has given out, of having a shot within 12 to 18 months, has drawn skepticism from many vaccine experts. “You would have to have everything go perfectly to get there,” says Seth Berkley, chief executive officer of the nonprofit Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance, which helps developing countries finance and distribute vaccines. “The most important thing is to have people understand that science is miraculous and can make things happen but it isn’t going to happen tomorrow.”

Do you even read what you link to? Or does your reading comprehension have some issues?

…. and of course the mainstream media never reports a story like this in a timely fashion - oh wait, CBS news reported this story 45 days ago.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Most New York Coronavirus Cases Came From Europe, Genomes Show

Travelers seeded multiple cases starting as early as mid-February, genomes show.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/scie ... e=Homepage

New research indicates that the coronavirus began to circulate in the New York area by mid-February, weeks before the first confirmed case, and that travelers brought in the virus mainly from Europe, not Asia.

“The majority is clearly European,” said Harm van Bakel, a geneticist at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, who co-wrote a study awaiting peer review.

A separate team at N.Y.U. Grossman School of Medicine came to strikingly similar conclusions, despite studying a different group of cases. Both teams analyzed genomes from coronaviruses taken from New Yorkers starting in mid-March.

The research revealed a previously hidden spread of the virus that might have been detected if aggressive testing programs had been put in place.

On Jan. 31, President Trump barred foreign nationals from entering the country if they had been in China during the prior two weeks.

It would not be until late February that Italy would begin locking down towns and cities, and March 11 when Mr. Trump said he would block travelers from most European countries. But New Yorkers had already been traveling home with the virus.

“People were just oblivious,” said Adriana Heguy, a member of the N.Y.U. team.

Dr. Heguy and Dr. van Bakel belong to an international guild of viral historians. They ferret out the history of outbreaks by poring over clues embedded in the genetic material of viruses taken from thousands of patients.

Fascinating article - with lots of explanation about the genetics and changes in coding they were tracking. Also shows why the travel ban to China was not really effective at all...

But it’s easier to point out a Chinaman than a European.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I agree that SD needs to go through end of April. But we should be testing now to get people to start thinking of May 1 as 'back to work', which relaly will be May 4th.

Pete -- agree that it is all about when the new tools are going to be available.

Without scalpels, you are stuck using a chainsaw. Assume everyone is infected. So isolate 100% of the people.

With scalpels, you can isolate the 5% or less who need to be isolated. And the 95% can mostly go back to the new normal. TBD if we get the tools by May 1, June 1, July 1...

What do y'all think the new normal is going to be? My prediction:

1. Masks and gloves when out in public.
2. Thermometer scans when entering buildings or stores.
3. Restaurants open but with the tables spaced widely apart.
4. No big public events with several thousand people attending for the rest of 2020. The NFL season will be played, but just on TV with empty stands.

I think that is fairly optimistic. Could be more restricted than that -- like Pete's Scarlet C badges.

Way too pessimistic. You boys don't appreciate the human brain in spite of thousands of years of evidence. When challenged, the human mind thinks of things you never thought could occur.

Some guy right now has already figured this out...we just haven't read about it yet.

I like the temperature scan...could be new SOP for businesses. Everyone is scanned when entering their workplace (temp scanning might be done automatically as you pass through a doorway similar to security scan booths in airports). If fever is detected, boom, you're tested immediately. Of course the testing efficiencies have a long way to go before this would be reality.

does this apply to workplaces that are outdoors? Job site porta potties. Gosh....it's like you (collective ) never did NOTHING with your hands, except play with your stick (s) . Sure.......EVErYONE works in an office building .

Those places are still, and have been working for the most part.

Working if the underlying project is deemed to be essential. What is considered essential may vary from state to state. As I mentioned friends run a company either hundreds of construction / development projects across the country.... some are progressing and some are on hold. He didn’t have the drill down to give the % break down......he definitely didn’t define it as “for the most part our crews are all working”.

The emphasis is returning back.....with "safeguards" in place. That $500 hour crane.......you think happy thoughts while the crew is busy swabbing noses or throats b/c of a HIGH temp? Not to worry, the crane operator has a fever too....but shes wearing a mask......

We are worried about death......yet alcohol stores are deemed e$$ential ?

https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm

You see me post anywhere about what I deem to be “essential jobs” or are you just venting?