All things Chinese CoronaVirus

[old salt]

Called it weeks ago. The game is, after all the social distancing .....when it works, you'd have a bunch of people saying "see, I TOLD YOU this virus was no big deal".

I'm left wondering how many of these Americans wake up from successful open heart surgery and say "see? I'm fine. Obviously I didn't need the surgery in the first place".

Homer shares this brilliance.....

Yep. I posted last week that once Trump starting talking about 100k to 200k deaths I figured the number would be lower. That is how he rolls. Create a mess, tell people it will be worse than the reality and when it comes in under he will say hey, look at what I did.....I closed the Chinese border.

I was hoping the estimates being emphasized were purposely high, to scare the populace into taking precautions.

[DocBarrister]

South Korea, which is even more pro-big business than the United States, also worships science and innovation.

This is markedly different from Donald Trump and his supporters, who seem to worship instead their own ignorance, stupidity, racism, bigotry, and misogyny. Indeed, it is the lack of respect and appreciation for science, expertise, and data that led to the current lethality of the pandemic in the United States.

We see some of that on this forum, where folks with little or no education, training, experience, or understanding of science, medicine, or epidemiology are mouthing off like they’re the second coming of Louis Pasteur.

What we are witnessing now is the lethality of a lack of respect for science.

DocBarrister

pretty comical coming from an attorney no less who's never played or coached lacrosse but has positioned himself as the ultimate authority 10s of 1000s of times over the last 15 years because he watches and stuff.

Lacrosse is just a game. I’m just a fan rooting for my team. That was all in fun.

We’re discussing a global pandemic that has already killed at least 90,000 worldwide despite some of the most extreme public health interventions in all of history.

Which makes your comparison pretty stupid, right?

DocBarrister

nah. holds form. you think you know everything. anyone that's not in your worship camp for all your great takes gets to be called juvenile names and trashed.
sounds pretty familiar, no? what time is your press conference?

I don’t know everything.

But I know more than you and Donald Trump and everyone in between. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you know more than him ... although that’s questionable. yeah. you don't sound like you have an ego.

What’s more outlandish ... your persistent (and completely uninformed) assertion that no one could have done better than Trump in addressing the greatest global pandemic in over a century ... i have never said this, please quote me.

... or my (somewhat uninformed) assertion that Petro should run a more aggressive defense?

Who has the bigger #%^+%^ ego, genius? typical. all you do is lash out at people on here and at your favorite target. when you're not defending people merely because they share a political ideology. you are the definition of a keyboard warrior. and you mirror the person and people you most abhor. maybe you should think about all that for more than a beat.

DocBarrister

Respectfully, wgdsr, you should read your own posts.

“there is zero evidence any other recent leader would have done "better". whatever your better is.”—wgdsr

DocBarrister

[Typical Lax Dad]

Called it weeks ago. The game is, after all the social distancing .....when it works, you'd have a bunch of people saying "see, I TOLD YOU this virus was no big deal".

I'm left wondering how many of these Americans wake up from successful open heart surgery and say "see? I'm fine. Obviously I didn't need the surgery in the first place".

Homer shares this brilliance.....

Yep. I posted last week that once Trump starting talking about 100k to 200k deaths I figured the number would be lower. That is how he rolls. Create a mess, tell people it will be worse than the reality and when it comes in under he will say hey, look at what I did.....I closed the Chinese border.

I was hoping the estimates being emphasized were purposely high, to scare the populace into taking precautions.

That could be also.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'm not in the "Why didn't Trump do more back in Feb" camp, and you know it. He did the best he could, just as Governors in other States who didn't shut down their States.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell if you're overreacting. Full stop. That's the STUPIDITY of the Stanford article. The ONLY way to "test" if we're overreacting is to do nothing, and hope America survives. This is logic that's even worse than Homer Simpson's.

No one, not even Trump, is suggesting we do nothing, and just resign to whatever happens.

This isn’t true.

It's 1,000 percent true. Watch......

Which country overreacted to the Virus?

Regarding your question ... none. No nation “overreacted” to this virus.

Don’t rely on my opinion ... just ask the doctors and nurses in New York City, New Orleans, Paris, and Rome.

DocBarrister

a fan, I don't even understand the question as to "overreacted"...do you think a country "overreacted"??.

What Doc is trying to sell here is that when the a virus comes along, It's impossible to overreact.

So that means, obviously, when Virus X shows up in say, Africa in 2021, Doc is telling us that America should shelter in place nationwide, and do it immediately, on the same day.


This is patently ridiculous, obviously. Like everything in life....moderation is the way to go.

well, sure, but is that really what Doc is saying?
I didn't get that from his posts, but maybe I missed it.

Seems to me that when a virus shows up, wherever, and people start to die, alarms bells should definitely go off among those paid to pay attention...that then should make it into the daily POTUS security briefing (which should actually be read not round filed). And if the virus is spreading rapidly, those alarm bells should go off even louder and more broadly within user government, with the machinery beginning to turn in anticipation of cross border spread. And so on and so on...

Not extreme action, not 'shelter in pace' on day one, but sure as heck the machinery should turn and the POTUS should be encouraging that machinery to do so. And when it really does become obvious that there's virus ashore and spreading in the US, then all gears of that machinery better be turning at rapidly increasing speed.

[wgdsr]

What’s more outlandish ... your persistent (and completely uninformed) assertion that no one could have done better than Trump in addressing the greatest global pandemic in over a century ... i have never said this, please quote me.

Respectfully, wgdsr, you should read your own posts.

" there is zero evidence any other recent leader would have done "better". whatever your better is.”—wgdsr

DocBarrister

they are not remotely the same thing. this is not the first time, with just me, that you've tried to mischaracterize what I say. given your demeaning recent rant about how smart you are vs me and the rest of the world, i can only surmise you're not being fastidious and it leads to sloppiness, or that you're doing it on purpose. so i will ask you again to stop mischaracterizing what i say with your own spin on it.

[a fan]

well, sure, but is that really what Doc is saying?
I didn't get that from his posts, but maybe I missed it.

Seems to me that when a virus shows up, wherever, and people start to die, alarms bells should definitely go off among those paid to pay attention...that then should make it into the daily POTUS security briefing (which should actually be read not round filed). And if the virus is spreading rapidly, those alarm bells should go off even louder and more broadly within user government, with the machinery beginning to turn in anticipation of cross border spread. And so on and so on...

Not extreme action, not 'shelter in pace' on day one, but sure as heck the machinery should turn and the POTUS should be encouraging that machinery to do so. And when it really does become obvious that there's virus ashore and spreading in the US, then all gears of that machinery better be turning at rapidly increasing speed.

Yes. But my point is: it's nearly impossible to tell where that line is. Between economic damage and saving lives...where's the line? Despite all the partisan horse hockey, no one wants anyone to die from CoronaVirus...just as no one wants anyone to miss a paycheck, or go out of business. Finding where that line is, is just an impossible task. Critics will hammer either choice. Especially when America hasn't seen anything like this for 100 years.

[runrussellrun]

I agree that SD needs to go through end of April. But we should be testing now to get people to start thinking of May 1 as 'back to work', which relaly will be May 4th.

Pete -- agree that it is all about when the new tools are going to be available.

Without scalpels, you are stuck using a chainsaw. Assume everyone is infected. So isolate 100% of the people.

With scalpels, you can isolate the 5% or less who need to be isolated. And the 95% can mostly go back to the new normal. TBD if we get the tools by May 1, June 1, July 1...

What do y'all think the new normal is going to be? My prediction:

1. Masks and gloves when out in public.
2. Thermometer scans when entering buildings or stores.
3. Restaurants open but with the tables spaced widely apart.
4. No big public events with several thousand people attending for the rest of 2020. The NFL season will be played, but just on TV with empty stands.

I think that is fairly optimistic. Could be more restricted than that -- like Pete's Scarlet C badges.

Way too pessimistic. You boys don't appreciate the human brain in spite of thousands of years of evidence. When challenged, the human mind thinks of things you never thought could occur.

Some guy right now has already figured this out...we just haven't read about it yet.

I like the temperature scan...could be new SOP for businesses. Everyone is scanned when entering their workplace (temp scanning might be done automatically as you pass through a doorway similar to security scan booths in airports). If fever is detected, boom, you're tested immediately. Of course the testing efficiencies have a long way to go before this would be reality.

does this apply to workplaces that are outdoors? Job site porta potties. Gosh....it's like you (collective ) never did NOTHING with your hands, except play with your stick (s) . Sure.......EVErYONE works in an office building .

Like I always sayz, the JOINT chiefs ain't hardly got anyone with.......

robots don't get sick.

[a fan]

Little something for Old Salt and L&M....

Got a nice thank you from a group working to get Covid-supplies including our hand sanitizer and PPE to rural Colorado hospitals, etc.

We are working with the USAF Civil Air Patrol and Flight forLife West to distribute products to remote parts of the state quickly.


Pretty crazy that they're using air assets to distribute hand sanitizer!!

[DocBarrister]

I'm not in the "Why didn't Trump do more back in Feb" camp, and you know it. He did the best he could, just as Governors in other States who didn't shut down their States.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell if you're overreacting. Full stop. That's the STUPIDITY of the Stanford article. The ONLY way to "test" if we're overreacting is to do nothing, and hope America survives. This is logic that's even worse than Homer Simpson's.

No one, not even Trump, is suggesting we do nothing, and just resign to whatever happens.

This isn’t true.

It's 1,000 percent true. Watch......

Which country overreacted to the Virus?

Regarding your question ... none. No nation “overreacted” to this virus.

Don’t rely on my opinion ... just ask the doctors and nurses in New York City, New Orleans, Paris, and Rome.

DocBarrister

a fan, I don't even understand the question as to "overreacted"...do you think a country "overreacted"??.

What Doc is trying to sell here is that when the a virus comes along, It's impossible to overreact.

So that means, obviously, when Virus X shows up in say, Africa in 2021, Doc is telling us that America should shelter in place nationwide, and do it immediately, on the same day.


This is patently ridiculous, obviously. Like everything in life....moderation is the way to go.

That is not what I have been saying. The U.S. didn’t shelter in place nationwide for H1N1 ... and the response to that virus was appropriate (not perfect) and timely.

What I am saying is that no nation anywhere has “overreacted” to SARS-CoV-2 ... the virus of THIS pandemic.

SARS-CoV-2 is not a virus to be messed with. “[M]oderation” is definitely not the way to go with this virus.

So far, experience with this virus has supported the use of at least two effective strategies, both of which are most appropriately described as EXTREME:

(1) South Korean model: ramp up testing immediately on a massive scale, followed by voluntary social distancing directives.

(2) China model: miss the window for early testing, but then institute delayed testing with draconian isolation measures for infected individuals (no sheltering at home ... separate from family members). Then institute a police- and military-enforced quarantine of entire mega-cities and regions.

Both of those approaches worked. I know which one I prefer.

As for the “moderation” approach? The model for that is Italy, where testing was slow to ramp up, social distancing directives were inconsistently followed, and the Italian government kept sending mixed messages. The result was very disheartening.

Oh, guess what nation’s track Mike Pence said we were following?

Yeah ... you guessed it. You see, a fan, we are following the moderation model, and we’re following Italy’s sad trajectory.

We need to quadruple, quintuple, whatever ... our testing, shut down nationwide, and stay shut down until at least June. Even then, we should only ease restrictions gradually and keep testing on a massive scale. Until a vaccine is ready (at the earliest, first or second quarter of 2021), local and regional breakouts will occur, requiring local and regional shutdowns on an as-needed basis.

Even if a vaccine arrives, it will take at least six months to vaccinate everyone in the world who needs it. Antibody titer tests can be used to identify those who already have immunity, but even some of those may need a booster shot.

If all goes well and smoothly, we can look forward to the “new normal” sometime in the last quarter of 2021. Hopefully, the recession will end in the first or second quarter of 2021. Sadly, somewhere between 50,000 to 100,000 Americans (or more) may have succumbed to the virus by then.

Based on what I have read, that is the optimistic scenario.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this isn’t going to be over by summer, or even the football season. That’s not my take, that’s what the expert consensus is saying. Things can change (I hope for that, too), but that is the current assessment among the (optimistic) experts.

DocBarrister

[youthathletics]

I agree that SD needs to go through end of April. But we should be testing now to get people to start thinking of May 1 as 'back to work', which relaly will be May 4th.

Pete -- agree that it is all about when the new tools are going to be available.

Without scalpels, you are stuck using a chainsaw. Assume everyone is infected. So isolate 100% of the people.

With scalpels, you can isolate the 5% or less who need to be isolated. And the 95% can mostly go back to the new normal. TBD if we get the tools by May 1, June 1, July 1...

What do y'all think the new normal is going to be? My prediction:

1. Masks and gloves when out in public.
2. Thermometer scans when entering buildings or stores.
3. Restaurants open but with the tables spaced widely apart.
4. No big public events with several thousand people attending for the rest of 2020. The NFL season will be played, but just on TV with empty stands.

I think that is fairly optimistic. Could be more restricted than that -- like Pete's Scarlet C badges.

Way too pessimistic. You boys don't appreciate the human brain in spite of thousands of years of evidence. When challenged, the human mind thinks of things you never thought could occur.

Some guy right now has already figured this out...we just haven't read about it yet.

I like the temperature scan...could be new SOP for businesses. Everyone is scanned when entering their workplace (temp scanning might be done automatically as you pass through a doorway similar to security scan booths in airports). If fever is detected, boom, you're tested immediately. Of course the testing efficiencies have a long way to go before this would be reality.

does this apply to workplaces that are outdoors? Job site porta potties. Gosh....it's like you (collective ) never did NOTHING with your hands, except play with your stick (s) . Sure.......EVErYONE works in an office building .

Those places are still, and have been working for the most part.

[a fan]

What I am saying is that no nation anywhere has “overreacted” to SARS-CoV-2 ... the virus of THIS pandemic.

Hindsight is lovely, isn't it?

Yeah ... you guessed it. You see, a fan, we are following the moderation model, and we’re following Italy’s sad trajectory.

We need to quadruple, quintuple, whatever ... our testing, shut down nationwide, and stay shut down until at least June. Even then, we should only ease restrictions gradually and keep testing on a massive scale. Until a vaccine is ready (at the earliest, first or second quarter of 2021), local and regional breakouts will occur, requiring local and regional shutdowns on an as-needed basis.

Easy for you and I to say. What about the people who have lost everything to this shutdown, and have nothing? About to get evicted? Out of money for food?

Do you have any clue how gummed up State unemployment offices are? Checks aren't moving. The SBA bailout program? It's not funded yet.

There are no easy answers Doc. You and I are financially secure enough to ride this out. Millions of Americans are unemployed, my man. Maybe a thought to them?

You've got your Dem buddies on speed dial, no? Maybe put in a call to Pelosi, et. al., and get them to help these people, eh?

[Typical Lax Dad]

I agree that SD needs to go through end of April. But we should be testing now to get people to start thinking of May 1 as 'back to work', which relaly will be May 4th.

Pete -- agree that it is all about when the new tools are going to be available.

Without scalpels, you are stuck using a chainsaw. Assume everyone is infected. So isolate 100% of the people.

With scalpels, you can isolate the 5% or less who need to be isolated. And the 95% can mostly go back to the new normal. TBD if we get the tools by May 1, June 1, July 1...

What do y'all think the new normal is going to be? My prediction:

1. Masks and gloves when out in public.
2. Thermometer scans when entering buildings or stores.
3. Restaurants open but with the tables spaced widely apart.
4. No big public events with several thousand people attending for the rest of 2020. The NFL season will be played, but just on TV with empty stands.

I think that is fairly optimistic. Could be more restricted than that -- like Pete's Scarlet C badges.

Way too pessimistic. You boys don't appreciate the human brain in spite of thousands of years of evidence. When challenged, the human mind thinks of things you never thought could occur.

Some guy right now has already figured this out...we just haven't read about it yet.

I like the temperature scan...could be new SOP for businesses. Everyone is scanned when entering their workplace (temp scanning might be done automatically as you pass through a doorway similar to security scan booths in airports). If fever is detected, boom, you're tested immediately. Of course the testing efficiencies have a long way to go before this would be reality.

does this apply to workplaces that are outdoors? Job site porta potties. Gosh....it's like you (collective ) never did NOTHING with your hands, except play with your stick (s) . Sure.......EVErYONE works in an office building .

Those places are still, and have been working for the most part.

Working if the underlying project is deemed to be essential. What is considered essential may vary from state to state. As I mentioned friends run a company either hundreds of construction / development projects across the country.... some are progressing and some are on hold. He didn’t have the drill down to give the % break down......he definitely didn’t define it as “for the most part our crews are all working”.

[DocBarrister]

What I am saying is that no nation anywhere has “overreacted” to SARS-CoV-2 ... the virus of THIS pandemic.

Hindsight is lovely, isn't it?

Yeah ... you guessed it. You see, a fan, we are following the moderation model, and we’re following Italy’s sad trajectory.

We need to quadruple, quintuple, whatever ... our testing, shut down nationwide, and stay shut down until at least June. Even then, we should only ease restrictions gradually and keep testing on a massive scale. Until a vaccine is ready (at the earliest, first or second quarter of 2021), local and regional breakouts will occur, requiring local and regional shutdowns on an as-needed basis.

Easy for you and I to say. What about the people who have lost everything to this shutdown, and have nothing? About to get evicted? Out of money for food?

Do you have any clue how gummed up State unemployment offices are? Checks aren't moving. The SBA bailout program? It's not funded yet.

There are no easy answers Doc. You and I are financially secure enough to ride this out. Millions of Americans are unemployed, my man. Maybe a thought to them?

You've got your Dem buddies on speed dial, no? Maybe put in a call to Pelosi, et. al., and get them to help these people, eh?

That is the common fallacy ... the notion that we can open up the economy before we have brought the pandemic under control ... not an end, but control.

Our economy is driven mostly by consumer spending, you know that better than most. People will not flock to movie theaters, restaurants, and stadiums while hundreds of Americans are still dying from the novel coronavirus each day. The only way to open this economy is to get the pandemic under control. That is a prerequisite, not a competing objective, to opening up the economy.

I don’t know about you, but I’m not nearly as secure about my job as I was last December. My firm is among the wealthiest, and my specialty is pretty recession resistant. But even I am worried about cuts in income or even job loss (as remote as that may be). No guarantees, especially if Trump screws up by opening things up too early and we fall into an actual depression.

The economy will not come back quickly. Consumers and companies will hoard cash (if they have any to hoard). Millions of individuals and businesses will emerge with more debt. People will remain skittish about going out until a vaccine comes around. From what I have read, there is a growing consensus that the recovery will be slow.

My wife and I are probably in better financial shape than most, with nearly a year of cash on hand, even if income drops to zero.

And I’m still afraid. Don’t know what your secret is.

DocB

[MDlaxfan76]

well, sure, but is that really what Doc is saying?
I didn't get that from his posts, but maybe I missed it.

Seems to me that when a virus shows up, wherever, and people start to die, alarms bells should definitely go off among those paid to pay attention...that then should make it into the daily POTUS security briefing (which should actually be read not round filed). And if the virus is spreading rapidly, those alarm bells should go off even louder and more broadly within user government, with the machinery beginning to turn in anticipation of cross border spread. And so on and so on...

Not extreme action, not 'shelter in pace' on day one, but sure as heck the machinery should turn and the POTUS should be encouraging that machinery to do so. And when it really does become obvious that there's virus ashore and spreading in the US, then all gears of that machinery better be turning at rapidly increasing speed.

Yes. But my point is: it's nearly impossible to tell where that line is. Between economic damage and saving lives...where's the line? Despite all the partisan horse hockey, no one wants anyone to die from CoronaVirus...just as no one wants anyone to miss a paycheck, or go out of business. Finding where that line is, is just an impossible task. Critics will hammer either choice. Especially when America hasn't seen anything like this for 100 years.

I agree with that.

But pandemics are not unknown, they're 'war gamed'. Not by you and I, but this is definitely the sort of thing we want and should expect the federal government to do.

Again, the 'machinery' involved all sorts of aspects that did not get started, most of which would have had no impact on the economy. But would have had in motion the supplies necessary if things got out of control.

Starting with the testing.
Most importantly the testing.

Had that 'machinery' begun, testing would have been in place necsarry for the next steps of physical distancing have been implemented weeks earlier, and possibly even with the sorts of targeted quarantining that SK did. Masks like SK did, Singapore, etc.

I still think we'd have been challenged to stop it, so my hunch is that the steps California was an early mover on would have begun two weeks or earlier. That would cut a huge portion of the spread. Earlier choke point, earlier back to work...again assuming that the testing machinery was ramped up four to six weeks earlier.

California looks to be the 'best practices' model in America, given that the selective quarantining, using heavy testing, was not an option.

[MDlaxfan76]

What I am saying is that no nation anywhere has “overreacted” to SARS-CoV-2 ... the virus of THIS pandemic.

Hindsight is lovely, isn't it?

Yeah ... you guessed it. You see, a fan, we are following the moderation model, and we’re following Italy’s sad trajectory.

We need to quadruple, quintuple, whatever ... our testing, shut down nationwide, and stay shut down until at least June. Even then, we should only ease restrictions gradually and keep testing on a massive scale. Until a vaccine is ready (at the earliest, first or second quarter of 2021), local and regional breakouts will occur, requiring local and regional shutdowns on an as-needed basis.

Easy for you and I to say. What about the people who have lost everything to this shutdown, and have nothing? About to get evicted? Out of money for food?

Do you have any clue how gummed up State unemployment offices are? Checks aren't moving. The SBA bailout program? It's not funded yet.

There are no easy answers Doc. You and I are financially secure enough to ride this out. Millions of Americans are unemployed, my man. Maybe a thought to them?

You've got your Dem buddies on speed dial, no? Maybe put in a call to Pelosi, et. al., and get them to help these people, eh?

That is the common fallacy ... the notion that we can open up the economy before we have brought the pandemic under control ... not an end, but control.

Our economy is driven mostly by consumer spending, you know that better than most. People will not flock to movie theaters, restaurants, and stadiums while hundreds of Americans are still dying from the novel coronavirus each day. The only way to open this economy is to get the pandemic under control. That is a prerequisite, not a competing objective, to opening up the economy.

I don’t know about you, but I’m not nearly as secure about my job as I was last December. My firm is among the wealthiest, and my specialty is pretty recession resistant. But even I am worried about cuts in income or even job loss (as remote as that may be). No guarantees, especially if Trump screws up by opening things up too early and we fall into an actual depression.

The economy will not come back quickly. Consumers and companies will hoard cash (if they have any to hoard). Millions of individuals and businesses will emerge with more debt. People will remain skittish about going out until a vaccine comes around. From what I have read, there is a growing consensus that the recovery will be slow.

My wife and I are probably in better financial shape than most, with nearly a year of cash on hand, even if income drops to zero.

And I’m still afraid. Don’t know what your secret is.

DocB

I wish this wasn't correct, but Doc is unfortunately right.
Pandemic first, economy can only succeed after controlled.

And, yeah, a fan you have been right about the necessity for massive financial relief, as fast as possible.

[DocBarrister]

... simple:

KEEP PRINTING MONEY.

That is basically what the Fed and federal government is doing.

No risk of inflation with an economy in an induced coma and millions unemployed.

Keep printing money ... trillions and trillions of dollars of it, and give the cash directly to those who need it most.

Don’t worry about the debt or deficit. Biden and the Democrats will work on cleaning up the Republicans’ mess after they win the White House, Senate, and House this November.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

... simple:

KEEP PRINTING MONEY.

That is basically what the Fed and federal government is doing.

No risk of inflation with an economy in an induced coma and millions unemployed.

Keep printing money ... trillions and trillions of dollars of it, and give the cash directly to those who need it most.

Don’t worry about the debt or deficit. Biden and the Democrats will work on cleaning up the Republicans’ mess after they win the White House, Senate, and House this November.

DocBarrister

[Typical Lax Dad]

well, sure, but is that really what Doc is saying?
I didn't get that from his posts, but maybe I missed it.

Seems to me that when a virus shows up, wherever, and people start to die, alarms bells should definitely go off among those paid to pay attention...that then should make it into the daily POTUS security briefing (which should actually be read not round filed). And if the virus is spreading rapidly, those alarm bells should go off even louder and more broadly within user government, with the machinery beginning to turn in anticipation of cross border spread. And so on and so on...

Not extreme action, not 'shelter in pace' on day one, but sure as heck the machinery should turn and the POTUS should be encouraging that machinery to do so. And when it really does become obvious that there's virus ashore and spreading in the US, then all gears of that machinery better be turning at rapidly increasing speed.

Yes. But my point is: it's nearly impossible to tell where that line is. Between economic damage and saving lives...where's the line? Despite all the partisan horse hockey, no one wants anyone to die from CoronaVirus...just as no one wants anyone to miss a paycheck, or go out of business. Finding where that line is, is just an impossible task. Critics will hammer either choice. Especially when America hasn't seen anything like this for 100 years.

I agree with that.

But pandemics are not unknown, they're 'war gamed'. Not by you and I, but this is definitely the sort of thing we want and should expect the federal government to do.

Again, the 'machinery' involved all sorts of aspects that did not get started, most of which would have had no impact on the economy. But would have had in motion the supplies necessary if things got out of control.

Starting with the testing.
Most importantly the testing.

Had that 'machinery' begun, testing would have been in place necsarry for the next steps of physical distancing have been implemented weeks earlier, and possibly even with the sorts of targeted quarantining that SK did. Masks like SK did, Singapore, etc.

I still think we'd have been challenged to stop it, so my hunch is that the steps California was an early mover on would have begun two weeks or earlier. That would cut a huge portion of the spread. Earlier choke point, earlier back to work...again assuming that the testing machinery was ramped up four to six weeks earlier.

California looks to be the 'best practices' model in America, given that the selective quarantining, using heavy testing, was not an option.

It was mishandled. We had a head start but poor executive management decisions costs us time. The duration of the shut down could have been shorter and less disruptive. Hindsight is 20/20 but we had people in government with foresight but they were let go or downplayed. I don’t know if someone else would have handled it better but I do know this guy handled it poorly. Poor execution of what people would call a business continuity plan. This type of pandemic had been modeled and nobody acted on it. Our government let us down.

[DocBarrister]

Little something for Old Salt and L&M....

Got a nice thank you from a group working to get Covid-supplies including our hand sanitizer and PPE to rural Colorado hospitals, etc.

We are working with the USAF Civil Air Patrol and Flight forLife West to distribute products to remote parts of the state quickly.


Pretty crazy that they're using air assets to distribute hand sanitizer!!

Cool! Thank you for your efforts!

DocB

[DocBarrister]

... simple:

KEEP PRINTING MONEY.

That is basically what the Fed and federal government is doing.

No risk of inflation with an economy in an induced coma and millions unemployed.

Keep printing money ... trillions and trillions of dollars of it, and give the cash directly to those who need it most.

Don’t worry about the debt or deficit. Biden and the Democrats will work on cleaning up the Republicans’ mess after they win the White House, Senate, and House this November.

DocBarrister

By the way, the direct cash plan is the “a fan plan”.

I never thought the Republicans would go for it, but Trump was desperate, so ....

DocBarrister