All things Chinese CoronaVirus

[jhu72]

While Trump and his supporters prove their complete and utter stupidity each and every day (including on this forum), a voice of sanity from the wilderness:

Washington (CNN) Former President Barack Obama on Wednesday said it would not be feasible to relax current measures to combat the spread of coronavirus without a "robust system of testing and monitoring — something we have yet to put in place nationwide."

The tweet presents a notable contrast in tone compared to the views of President Donald Trump, who on Wednesday morning tweeted that the country's economy must reopen "sooner rather than later" and that the pandemic "must be quickly forgotten" for those who haven't lost a loved one.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/politics ... index.html

President Obama is basically saying, “Look morons, you need to put a vigorous and comprehensive testing system in place, like the South Koreans did, before you can safely open up the economy. Dumba$$es,” but in his usual nice way.

DocBarrister

Not the Barack Obama that allowed 60 million Americans to contract H1N1 and up to 18,000 Americans to die.

Not the Barack Obama that never resupplied the National supply of Medical supplies after he depleted it for H1N1.

Not he Barack Obama who couldn't protect 4 people in a US embassy.

Not that Barack Obama

Its a certainty that the Trump Task Force that bent the death curve from 2.5 million down to maybe 60,000 doesnt have the brains or foresight to think about testing monitoring and a vaccine.

Deaths matter not, when overseas. Someone said something about "undercounting" ?

https://www.law.columbia.edu/human-righ ... ike-deaths

Debate about drone strikes often centers on who is killed: "militants" or civilians. In the absence of official information, casualty estimates provided by media fill the gap; however, the estimates are incomplete and may significantly undercount the extent of reported civilian deaths. The US government owes the public an accounting of who is really being killed.


OOPPSSIEEE........sorry. I am sorry. Until the next time. Just basement dwelling brown people will get killed next time, not Hopkins Docs. Obama sayz no more drone strikes on Hospitals.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/worl ... pital.html

… so you are still looking for love in all the wrong places I see.

[holmes435]

Pete -- I think almost everyone agrees with all that. I think that is exactly what will happen.

We can go back to work when we are able to widely deploy new/additional tools.

But until we have those tools, you are stuck with keeping up the full SD.

So it seems like the main point of differentiation is whether you hate on Trump or not?

I agree that SD needs to go through end of April. But we should be testing now to get people to start thinking of May 1 as 'back to work', which relaly will be May 4th.

But get that test kit ramped up production-wise. Set up a CDC website which shows locations of test sites. Clearly explain what people need, to go back to work. This is not hard.

And yes, most of the nonsense here is how much can I hate Trump... I don't sense anyone who defends Trump is necessarily a supporter of his, but merely show up here to balance the scale which leans hard to the hysteria side about EVERY issue, let alone Covid-19.

All us centrists and the lefties and have been advocating for massive testing since the beginning when it was being downplayed by your side.

After the slow start, we're now increasing test production-wise. How are you going to increase it further? Government intervention?

We've run about 2 million tests so far in the US. Abbott says they'll be able to run about five million tests in April (some with their rapid tester, and some with a longer test). You have other companies making tests as well, so we'll maybe have ~3-4% of the entire US population tested by May 1.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The egg on your face belies the truth.....it was NEVER a pandemic......the LACK of deaths will prove me write.

How wrong can you be??

A pandemic is a global outbreak of disease. Pandemics happen when a new virus emerges to infect people and can spread between people sustainably. Because there is little to no pre-existing immunity against the new virus, it spreads worldwide.

The world is wrong. This hasn’t spread and people have immunity.

another idiotic post

That is why I made it.....

[njbill]

Ramp up production of the Abbott 5-minute test kit, get other factories to make it

OMG, Pete we agree on something. I have been saying this for at least days. Are you stealing ideas from me? At least subconsciously?

This is really going to hurt me on the “Peter Brown unbalanced scale.”

There’s hope for you yet. Or for me. Not sure which.

[jhu72]

Six -- honest question.

What should the U.S. have done differently on this? And what would the impact of that been?

I don't understand what your alternative would have been.

Do nothing and hope for herd immunity?

SD lite (like what Sweden is doing)?

Something else?

Face it the modelers were wrong by 90%. Thats all from wishing our hands and social distancing?

OK we've done what we were asked. Forfeited businesses and jobs.

Lost trillions in the market.

Trump and his Task force moved heaven and earth—with constant bleating from the left and the media.

Nothing was enough.

And the same players are already bytching about the recovery.

… so boiling down your rant, your answer to the question is YOU WOULD HAVE DONE NOTHING. Free the virus, let it run wild.

b/c, it's NOT running wild? You actually think we are STOPPING a virus? Gee, if there were only a vaccine, funded by the US tax payer, at pretend not for profit, private colleges, but , thanks to Bahy/Dole, the US taxpayer sees NO return on investment.

jhu72, why not set up a poll. Find out WHO is working, still getting paid. Evah think a robot computer can do YOUR job, pushing spreadsheets? Do robots brag yet?

Someday soon, robots will do everyone's job.

[Peter Brown]

Pete -- I think almost everyone agrees with all that. I think that is exactly what will happen.

We can go back to work when we are able to widely deploy new/additional tools.

But until we have those tools, you are stuck with keeping up the full SD.

So it seems like the main point of differentiation is whether you hate on Trump or not?

I agree that SD needs to go through end of April. But we should be testing now to get people to start thinking of May 1 as 'back to work', which relaly will be May 4th.

But get that test kit ramped up production-wise. Set up a CDC website which shows locations of test sites. Clearly explain what people need, to go back to work. This is not hard.

And yes, most of the nonsense here is how much can I hate Trump... I don't sense anyone who defends Trump is necessarily a supporter of his, but merely show up here to balance the scale which leans hard to the hysteria side about EVERY issue, let alone Covid-19.

Never mind that even the fairly optimistic UW group predictions assume full SD through the end of May. Not April.

And if you look at the UW projections, you see significant differences in the states that were hit hard early (NY/NJ, MI, LA) which will be diving toward zero in early May versus the "late" states like yours and mine (FL and SC, and see death rate peaks projected in 15/17 days) where the governors were quite late with something approximating the full SD and will see their numbers taper off in late May and early June.

So your idea that in FL we reduce SD on May 1 is not that likely to lead to a good outcome. Maybe mid-May or later.

You need about two disease cycles to break the pandemic in any locale. Roughly four weeks. And FL just got started (although South Florida might be ready sooner).

I would point out that the UW studies, like most studies, never factor in dynamic change (ie: every action causes a reaction), so their models have had produced forecasted static outcomes. All of their original models were wildly overblown. I'd be cautious reading too much into their modeling.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The egg on your face belies the truth.....it was NEVER a pandemic......the LACK of deaths will prove me write.

How wrong can you be??

A pandemic is a global outbreak of disease. Pandemics happen when a new virus emerges to infect people and can spread between people sustainably. Because there is little to no pre-existing immunity against the new virus, it spreads worldwide.

The world is wrong. This hasn’t spread and people have immunity.

When Lord Jeff Amherst "gifted" the small pox blankets, was he immune, hence NOT a carrier?

Think, man, think. Or else, we have it all wrong. Which, mostly, you all do.

Captain Ecuyer may have sacrificed some men for the greater good:

… Captain Simeon Ecuyer had bought time by sending smallpox-infected blankets and handkerchiefs to the Indians surrounding the fort — an early example of biological warfare — which started an epidemic among them. Amherst himself had encouraged this tactic in a letter to Ecuyer. [p. 108]

So you think old Lord Jeff handed those infected blanket over himself? Probably had an unsuspecting grunt do it and then put a bullet in him.....

[Peter Brown]

Pete -- I think almost everyone agrees with all that. I think that is exactly what will happen.

We can go back to work when we are able to widely deploy new/additional tools.

But until we have those tools, you are stuck with keeping up the full SD.

So it seems like the main point of differentiation is whether you hate on Trump or not?

I agree that SD needs to go through end of April. But we should be testing now to get people to start thinking of May 1 as 'back to work', which relaly will be May 4th.

But get that test kit ramped up production-wise. Set up a CDC website which shows locations of test sites. Clearly explain what people need, to go back to work. This is not hard.

And yes, most of the nonsense here is how much can I hate Trump... I don't sense anyone who defends Trump is necessarily a supporter of his, but merely show up here to balance the scale which leans hard to the hysteria side about EVERY issue, let alone Covid-19.

All us centrists and the lefties and have been advocating for massive testing since the beginning when it was being downplayed by your side.

After the slow start, we're now increasing test production-wise. How are you going to increase it further? Government intervention?

We've run about 2 million tests so far in the US. Abbott says they'll be able to run about five million tests in April (some with their rapid tester, and some with a longer test). You have other companies making tests as well, so we'll maybe have ~3-4% of the entire US population tested by May 1.

Of course you need government intervention, just not the kind leftists want (state control of nearly everything).

All that is needed is one guy directing a smart testing response. Trump is really not that kind of guy, but then again, neither is Biden. Companies can handle all of this, easily. If Trump would bring in a Czar, this would be painless.

[Peter Brown]

Ramp up production of the Abbott 5-minute test kit, get other factories to make it

OMG, Pete we agree on something. I have been saying this for at least days. Are you stealing ideas from me? At least subconsciously?

This is really going to hurt me on the “Peter Brown unbalanced scale.”

There’s hope for you yet. Or for me. Not sure which.

Hope springs eternal, man; that is the American way. Positivity is what differentiates Americans from nearly every other culture.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Six -- honest question.

What should the U.S. have done differently on this? And what would the impact of that been?

I don't understand what your alternative would have been.

Do nothing and hope for herd immunity?

SD lite (like what Sweden is doing)?

Something else?

Face it the modelers were wrong by 90%. Thats all from wishing our hands and social distancing?

OK we've done what we were asked. Forfeited businesses and jobs.

Lost trillions in the market.

Trump and his Task force moved heaven and earth—with constant bleating from the left and the media.

Nothing was enough.

And the same players are already bytching about the recovery.

… so boiling down your rant, your answer to the question is YOU WOULD HAVE DONE NOTHING. Free the virus, let it run wild.

b/c, it's NOT running wild? You actually think we are STOPPING a virus? Gee, if there were only a vaccine, funded by the US tax payer, at pretend not for profit, private colleges, but , thanks to Bahy/Dole, the US taxpayer sees NO return on investment.

jhu72, why not set up a poll. Find out WHO is working, still getting paid. Evah think a robot computer can do YOUR job, pushing spreadsheets? Do robots brag yet?

Someday soon, robots will do everyone's job.

If things clear up in time, my daughter will have an internship in that very field.

[RedFromMI]

Ramp up production of the Abbott 5-minute test kit, get other factories to make it

OMG, Pete we agree on something. I have been saying this for at least days. Are you stealing ideas from me? At least subconsciously?

This is really going to hurt me on the “Peter Brown unbalanced scale.”

There’s hope for you yet. Or for me. Not sure which.

There is actually another route being worked on for the "post" testing phase - another group has worked out a procedure to use a ton of very high speed machines that exist all over the country in research labs that were used to sequence the human genome. Has the benefit of many more samples per hour (at least hundreds) versus the Abbott tests (which might take 5 minutes for a positive result, but need 13 minutes for a negative one - and can only run one test at a time). In addition, scarce reagents to extract the RNA from the virus are not needed.

So an Abbott machine takes 9 minutes per test average if you are 50% positive/50% negative, and if 90% negative about 17 minutes per test.

[6ftstick]

Pete, Six, RRR -- I'm not personally interested in the partisan ax grinding. I didn't need Covid to make me dislike Trump.

So again, what should we be doing differently?

Keep doing the full SD until 5/31 but just not trash Trump?

SD lite a la Sweden?

Fully re-open the country today?

What does "Back to work!!" mean?

RRR -- 2.8 million people die in the U.S. every year. So adding an incremental 2.2 million seems like a material variance, no?

I'll offer a few ideas.

Ramp up production of the Abbott 5-minute test kit, get other factories to make it, get these into designated city and town zones overnight, make all tests free, test everyone. With no valid test, you do not get to do anything: flights, work, church, etc... Walk around with an app on your phone or a piece of paper with a valid test result.

Let anyone 60 and under with no underlying compromised system go back to work, with a test that says 'clean'. If over 60, wait one more month.

After May 31, anyone over 60 can rejoin civilization with a clear test.

Anyone who tests 'clean' still needs to test once per month until a vaccine is sanctioned.

.....besides your first sentence, and ONLY that sentence....the rest of your ideas are down write scary. Fascist, in fact.
(did I mention arm bands for test takers? )

Point noted about the armbands...

Maybe it could be yellow stars.

People who surrender freedoms for security end up with neither.

[ggait]

I agree that SD needs to go through end of April. But we should be testing now to get people to start thinking of May 1 as 'back to work', which relaly will be May 4th.

Pete -- agree that it is all about when the new tools are going to be available.

Without scalpels, you are stuck using a chainsaw. Assume everyone is infected. So isolate 100% of the people.

With scalpels, you can isolate the 5% or less who need to be isolated. And the 95% can mostly go back to the new normal. TBD if we get the tools by May 1, June 1, July 1...

What do y'all think the new normal is going to be? My prediction:

1. Masks and gloves when out in public.
2. Thermometer scans when entering buildings or stores.
3. Restaurants open but with the tables spaced widely apart.
4. No big public events with several thousand people attending for the rest of 2020. The NFL season will be played, but just on TV with empty stands.

I think that is fairly optimistic. Could be more restricted than that -- like Pete's Scarlet C badges.

[njbill]

Ramp up production of the Abbott 5-minute test kit, get other factories to make it

OMG, Pete we agree on something. I have been saying this for at least days. Are you stealing ideas from me? At least subconsciously?

This is really going to hurt me on the “Peter Brown unbalanced scale.”

There’s hope for you yet. Or for me. Not sure which.

There is actually another route being worked on for the "post" testing phase - another group has worked out a procedure to use a ton of very high speed machines that exist all over the country in research labs that were used to sequence the human genome. Has the benefit of many more samples per hour (at least hundreds) versus the Abbott tests (which might take 5 minutes for a positive result, but need 13 minutes for a negative one - and can only run one test at a time). In addition, scarce reagents to extract the RNA from the virus are not needed.

So an Abbott machine takes 9 minutes per test average if you are 50% positive/50% negative, and if 90% negative about 17 minutes per test.

That’s great. The faster, the better. More, more, more fast tests.

[calourie]

Some good ideas being discussed, finally.

[jhu72]

Ramp up production of the Abbott 5-minute test kit, get other factories to make it

OMG, Pete we agree on something. I have been saying this for at least days. Are you stealing ideas from me? At least subconsciously?

This is really going to hurt me on the “Peter Brown unbalanced scale.”

There’s hope for you yet. Or for me. Not sure which.

Great, everyone agrees. I doubt the timeline can be made as aggressive as envisioned (end of April). So what are you going to do with guys like RRR? Live free or die, I ain't taken no vaccine - you can't stick my finger types?

[Peter Brown]

I agree that SD needs to go through end of April. But we should be testing now to get people to start thinking of May 1 as 'back to work', which relaly will be May 4th.

Pete -- agree that it is all about when the new tools are going to be available.

Without scalpels, you are stuck using a chainsaw. Assume everyone is infected. So isolate 100% of the people.

With scalpels, you can isolate the 5% or less who need to be isolated. And the 95% can mostly go back to the new normal. TBD if we get the tools by May 1, June 1, July 1...

What do y'all think the new normal is going to be? My prediction:

1. Masks and gloves when out in public.
2. Thermometer scans when entering buildings or stores.
3. Restaurants open but with the tables spaced widely apart.
4. No big public events with several thousand people attending for the rest of 2020. The NFL season will be played, but just on TV with empty stands.

I think that is fairly optimistic. Could be more restricted than that -- like Pete's Scarlet C badges.

Way too pessimistic. You boys don't appreciate the human brain in spite of thousands of years of evidence. When challenged, the human mind thinks of things you never thought could occur.

Some guy right now has already figured this out...we just haven't read about it yet.

[jhu72]

Ramp up production of the Abbott 5-minute test kit, get other factories to make it

OMG, Pete we agree on something. I have been saying this for at least days. Are you stealing ideas from me? At least subconsciously?

This is really going to hurt me on the “Peter Brown unbalanced scale.”

There’s hope for you yet. Or for me. Not sure which.

There is actually another route being worked on for the "post" testing phase - another group has worked out a procedure to use a ton of very high speed machines that exist all over the country in research labs that were used to sequence the human genome. Has the benefit of many more samples per hour (at least hundreds) versus the Abbott tests (which might take 5 minutes for a positive result, but need 13 minutes for a negative one - and can only run one test at a time). In addition, scarce reagents to extract the RNA from the virus are not needed.

So an Abbott machine takes 9 minutes per test average if you are 50% positive/50% negative, and if 90% negative about 17 minutes per test.

Have you seen any data on the accuracy of the Abbott tests?? This is the same machine that produces a 50% false negative rate when testing for FLU. I have been waiting to see false positive and false negative data on their test, but have not seen any.

[runrussellrun]

I agree that SD needs to go through end of April. But we should be testing now to get people to start thinking of May 1 as 'back to work', which relaly will be May 4th.

Pete -- agree that it is all about when the new tools are going to be available.

Without scalpels, you are stuck using a chainsaw. Assume everyone is infected. So isolate 100% of the people. If everyone IS infected, why the need to isolate? Makes zero sense.

With scalpels, you can isolate the 5% or less who need to be isolated. And the 95% can mostly go back to the new normal. TBD if we get the tools by May 1, June 1, July 1...

What do y'all think the new normal is going to be? My prediction:

1. Masks and gloves when out in public.
2. Thermometer scans when entering buildings or stores. horrible idea.
3. Restaurants open but with the tables spaced widely apart.
4. No big public events with several thousand people attending for the rest of 2020. The NFL season will be played, but just on TV with empty stands.

I think that is fairly optimistic. Could be more restricted than that -- like Pete's Scarlet C badges.

New normal? for whom? I am SURE the restaurant industry would love FEWER tables. Afan will have to limit his tours to 1 person, per hour ?

All of the above is just silly. NFL playing a season. Huddle up? waterhelpers no longer squirting into players mouths. wacko world here we are.

[6x6]

One more person angry about President “Trunk” and his inadequate response to the situation.

Warning: Almost every other word is MF and most of the rest are Fbombs. However, it should mostly certainly make you laugh, at least it did me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl6HvTUGb2E