All things CoronaVirus

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.

How many of your friends and family members have died of the Chinese Corona Virus?

0 people
43
63%
1 person.
10
15%
2 people.
3
4%
3 people.
5
7%
More.
7
10%
 
Total votes: 68

wgdsr
Posts: 9863
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by wgdsr »

DocBarrister wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:26 am
wgdsr wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:09 am if you are going to keep saying what i am doing, quote me. show one sentence where i have defended trump. one. you simply cannot be this dense.
the h1n1 vaccine, as you say, was much easier to get going as a solution that would work. but suffered with the delays and into the next year's flu season. if you were given those 2-3 months to comment on it for a rival political party you would've broken fanlax's bandwidth limits. it wasn't developed months and months later. they had the formula for it straight away. they figured out the problem in august.

it was supposed to be delivered and then some for the flu season. it was late. it cost lives and sometimes that's what happens when a government either isn't prepared or motivated to prevent it. what is your source on tests?
Please, the whole point of your posts has been to claim that no one else would have done any better than Trump in responding to the pandemic. You tried to make that point by falsely framing Obama’s H1N1 response as a failure, which it was not. No pandemic response is perfect, and that one wasn’t, but it was pretty darn successful.

Claiming that others wouldn’t have responded any better than Trump is just about the biggest act of absolution you can give him.

It is also a patently false assessment. Just take a look at the CDC timeline in 2009 and see how quickly the federal government reacted.

You also never bothered reading the CDC links I provided. The test information is there. CDC discusses how it began sending out test kits (each single kit being able to test 1,000 specimens) within two weeks of the first detected U.S. case.

DocBarrister
so not one attribution. other than how you want to frame things and being incapable of understanding my position.

fantastic. i've been through that cdc timeline and it will probably read very similarly when they write this one up.

if you looked close enough or cared enough to not be disingenuous, you'd recognize sending out test kits does not equal conducting tests. they actually did well under 600k per the source i had, i was being kind... prove otherwise if you care so much. so you made a big stink about nothing. that cdc site i just sent you a link a post up with not billions but less than 100m vaccines sent out by year end.
so a big stink about nothing again. and if you did actually research this stuff, a liar, too.

so now you're castigating me, making up stuff that i'm not saying, and lying. awesome job. keep it up.
DocBarrister
Posts: 6653
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by DocBarrister »

wgdsr wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:28 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:51 am
wgdsr wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:09 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:03 am Your “facts” were just wrong. It’s not a matter of viewpoint, but the facts. As just one example, the H1N1 vaccine was not a “cluster,” it was developed in 5 months (record time) and distributed to billions within 7 months. It proved to be safe and effective. That was a great success story, not a “cluster.”

It’s part of the problem in the country as a whole ... too many people think they are entitled to their own facts. That can prove deadly in a pandemic ... and it has.

DocBarrister
i just googled it for the first time bc i remember it as it happened.
google "swine flu vaccine delays". have fun.
first link is cdc director frustrated. then others on bureacratic, political and other missteps. not figuring outnit was curing weakly until august.
moved a 120 million delivery estimate for sept to 40 m for oct and didnt hit that.
here's the first links i got on that google search (it's a website search engine):

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news ... rustrating

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-flu- ... VV20091017

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspect ... eaths-rise

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/sto ... =114156775

there was 11 m late in october. billions, lol. you sound like trump. flu season kicked in and the second wave killed by estimates many more than the first... you're not entitled to your own set of facts.
You do understand that five months development time for a vaccine is amazingly fast, do you not? They sequenced that particular H1N1 variant in April 2009, had a vaccine developed and approved by September 2009, and ultimately delivered billions of doses of the vaccine.

There’s a reason your references are all from October 2009. They had figured out the problem by October, and mass production deliveries started in November 2009.

Now, producing a vaccine for the novel coronavirus won’t be as easy. Normally would take 18 months. With a massive effort, could be done in a year if we’re all lucky.

Still, development of a vaccine against a new H1N1 variant in just 5 months, with mass deliveries in 7 months? That’s pretty impressive.

So, your facts were still wrong and the response to that pandemic was very effective and timely (and during the Great Recession, no less).

It goes to show how standards have dropped for Trump.

Obama leads an effort that produces a vaccine within 5 months, mass deliveries by 7 months, and limits deaths to about 12,400 in ONE YEAR (less than a mild season of “common flu”), and here you are criticizing that effort.

Meanwhile, Trump delays action for nearly two months, his own experts project up to nearly a quarter million deaths, and we almost certainly won’t have a vaccine until next year, and most of your posts are trying to defend Trump.

Sure, coronavirus is a much deadlier contagion, but still ... why would you try and falsely denigrate a public health success story (the 2009 H1N1 response in the U.S.) to help defend Trump?

Why be so dishonest in your posts to this forum?

DocBarrister :?:
btw, while we're at it... where were billions of doses of vaccine in november delivered to and produced from?

here's what i have from the cdc:
https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination ... 012210.htm

why do you believe if there were billions of doses in november, had we sent only 76 million to the states as of mid december? and 100 m and change by the end of january? why was that?
:roll:

You’re looking at only CDC orders for the U.S.

The United States and Europe produce about 90% of the vaccines doses (at least they did back then) for the entire world. Billions of doses were produced worldwide.

Obviously, the U.S. is never going to use billions of doses. In fact, the U.S. never even used the entire supply produced for the U.S. ... didn’t have to. They got things under control fast. Vaccinations began in October 2009 and were pretty much done by April 2010. Again, a little more than 12,400 died from H1N1 between April 2009 and April 2010, less than a mild common flu season.

Pretty impressive, right? More vaccine than the entire country needed in just four months of production.

Another post of yours suggested that they didn’t perform all the tests they could have. You claim just 600k.

I haven’t verified your number, but let’s assume that’s true. We know CDC sent out 1,000 test kits capable of running 1 million tests. They seem to have produced an excess number of test kits. If they didn’t use all the test kits, they did it for one reason ... they developed a vaccine.

Excess test kits and excess vaccine doses ... all available really early.

Impressive, correct? And Obama did it all while helping the nation recover from the Great Recession and giving 20 million more Americans health care insurance.

And you’re telling me Obama wouldn’t have done a better job than Trump in this pandemic. That is complete bull dung.

DocBarrister
@DocBarrister
wgdsr
Posts: 9863
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by wgdsr »

keep deflecting. folks were pleading for the vaccines and did not get them. cdc director included. no kidding we didnt need billions. you're the one that came up with that.

we did not have what we needed even through the next season. but of course you will never admit that, though it is factual. not your opinion this time. but show me where it says we had billions ready for us by november and did not need or want them.

those test kits? they were sent to 120 us sites and 250 international. how many to each? you have no idea. so your premise there is false also.

it wasn't that the administration didn't care, it was more likely they made a business decision.

calculated the casualties for not going whole hog on testing, shutting down some hot communities temporarily (as some communities/schools did on their own if you read the abstract as i did last week... sound familiar?). figured the soft approach was worth it, played it out.

i'm not passing judgment on that approach. though the who was predicting much bigger problems, we must've had guys playing the opposite hand.

so what's your number on casualties? how many is too many?
DocBarrister
Posts: 6653
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by DocBarrister »

wgdsr wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:37 am keep deflecting. folks were pleading for the vaccines and did not get them. cdc director included. no kidding we didnt need billions. you're the one that came up with that.

we did not have what we needed even through the next season. but of course you will never admit that, though it is factual. not your opinion this time. but show me where it says we had billions ready for us by november and did not need or want them.

those test kits? they were sent to 120 us sites and 250 international. how many to each? you have no idea. so your premise there is false also.

it wasn't that the administration didn't care, it was more likely they made a business decision.

calculated the casualties for not going whole hog on testing, shutting down some hot communities temporarily (as some communities/schools did on their own if you read the abstract as i did last week... sound familiar?). figured the soft approach was worth it, played it out.

i'm not passing judgment on that approach. though the who was predicting much bigger problems, we must've had guys playing the opposite hand.

so what's your number on casualties? how many is too many?
You are simply wrong.

I don’t think you have any idea how difficult and challenging it is to mass produce a safe and effective vaccine.

Do you even have an understanding of how complex the quality control protocols are for such biologic products as the H1N1 virus vaccine? I do ... I have reviewed SOPs for biologic products as part of my litigation work. Makes the quality control SOPs for drugs and medical devices look like line drawings by kindergarten students.

They started sending out test kits on May 1, 2009, two weeks after the first U.S. cases were diagnosed in mid-April 2009. Have a problem with that? I don’t.

The FDA approved four vaccines by September 2009, just five months after the H1N1 virus was sequenced. Have a problem with that? I don’t.

They produced and delivered the first doses of the vaccine in the first week of October 2009, within 3 weeks of FDA approval. Have a problem with that? I don’t.

They ran into production problems that reduced their yields of vaccine and didn’t fully fix the issue until November 2009. Have a problem with that? I don’t. The only shocking thing to me is how quickly they were able to identify and fix the issue.

By January 2010, more vaccine was produced than the U.S. ultimately used. Have a problem with that? I don’t.

So what’s the problem?

The global H1N1 pandemic came around. It was effectively and timely handled.

If you want to find an example of a failed pandemic response, look elsewhere. The response to H1N1 in 2009 wasn’t perfect, but it was pretty good.

In contrast, Trump has made just about every mistake a leader can make during a pandemic. Lies, deliberate misinformation, delays, lack of leadership, insufficient communication, poor logistical management, lack of coordinated and comprehensive planning ... textbook mishandling of a pandemic leading to an unprecedented public health catastrophe.

DocBarrister
@DocBarrister
DocBarrister
Posts: 6653
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by DocBarrister »

wgdsr wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:37 am keep deflecting. folks were pleading for the vaccines and did not get them. cdc director included. no kidding we didnt need billions. you're the one that came up with that.

we did not have what we needed even through the next season. but of course you will never admit that, though it is factual. not your opinion this time. but show me where it says we had billions ready for us by november and did not need or want them.

those test kits? they were sent to 120 us sites and 250 international. how many to each? you have no idea. so your premise there is false also.

it wasn't that the administration didn't care, it was more likely they made a business decision.

calculated the casualties for not going whole hog on testing, shutting down some hot communities temporarily (as some communities/schools did on their own if you read the abstract as i did last week... sound familiar?). figured the soft approach was worth it, played it out.

i'm not passing judgment on that approach. though the who was predicting much bigger problems, we must've had guys playing the opposite hand.

so what's your number on casualties? how many is too many?
How many is too many?

100,000-240,000 deaths ... the Trump administration’s own optimistic estimate for the current pandemic. They don’t even talk much about non-fatal morbidities, which will impact probably ten times as many patients.

DocBarrister
@DocBarrister
Trinity
Posts: 3513
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:14 am

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by Trinity »

“Confirming @jonathanvswan great reporting in here about yesterday’s task force tensions. The president wasn’t supposed to do a briefing today, but has told several advisers they are free tv and high ratings for him.“

M Haberman. NYT, on our wartime preznit.

Trump stops Fauci from talking then scolds the AP for daring to ask why the administration didn’t place orders for equipment and ppe until mid-March. Then he flees.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
jhu72
Posts: 14087
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by jhu72 »

Trump's drug deal. :roll: What have you got to lose? :lol: :lol:
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
User avatar
Kismet
Posts: 4555
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:42 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by Kismet »

DMac wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:59 pm
njbill wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:22 pm DMac, thought your link was going to be the Smothers Brothers.
Got ya covered, njbill, Tommy's on a roll.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI7imHKQeE8
They were way ahead of their time....think of protest/parody of your government's policy in Vietnam every Sunday night. Akin to what the late night people, Bill Maher and SNL do now. They were parked more than once by CBS under pressure from the Feds.....in fact, that is how Glen Campbell got started with his own show as he was the temp replacement.

In Australia a Matilda is the name for a backpack used when walking in the bush.
DMac
Posts: 9033
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:02 am

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by DMac »

Yup, needless to say Tommy thought it was the girl the hiker was dancing with. When Dick told him what it is he thought the song was a lot horseschidt. Funny stuff, a perfect song for their routine.
6ftstick
Posts: 3194
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:19 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by 6ftstick »

DocBarrister wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:57 pm
6ftstick wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:16 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:59 pm
wgdsr wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:13 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:44 pm
wgdsr wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:47 pm
old salt wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:42 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:44 am
Trinity wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:12 am Trump was briefed Jan 3. Again on January 18. Limited travel ban on Wuhan was, what, Jan 29?
To be fair, the Chinese implemented their own travel ban Jan 23rd in Wuhan, as tens of thousands were being identified fast. They had confirmed that it was a new coronavirus on Jan 7, should have locked down then or earlier, but were slow off the mark. We think they underreported their #'s at each stage of this, but we knew the #'s they were publicly reporting were big and growing very fast. And our IC was apparently very clear that the situation was very dire in China.

We should have been focused on preparing for testing those first weeks, but once the Chinese actually hit the panic button we definitely knew that this could be huge if it had already gotten out of China, which anyone with access to travel data could have swiftly predicted as a near certainty. The Federal gov't has such data. They knew.

January 28 we had already found two cases in the US, January 30 we had first confirmed community spread in the US. Of course, that had already begun in multiple areas of the US, just undetected.

So, while the Jan 29 ban was correct to do, it was already much too late to be relied upon as sufficient.

Miserable.
When did the WHO or the Chinese provide to the CDC, the first samples & data necessary for the CDC to begin developing test kits ?
early january
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... now-deadly
And here we are in April, still with an insufficient number of tests and testing sites available.

Trump’s failure on testing will be remembered as one of the colossal failures of leadership in American history.

DocBarrister
and there is not a leader among us who would've been properly prepared and executed.

maybe george, jr.

hopefully that will change coming out of this and our children and children's children will be served.
That is a dangerous lie.

Truth is, very few people would have sat on their hands for more than six weeks the way Trump did. Trump delayed because he prioritized his reelection over the lives, health, and safety of the American people. As a matter of tragic and deadly irony, his malignant decision likely sealed his defeat in November.

Trump’s main legacy won’t be impeachment or his other catastrophic failures.

No, Trump’s main legacy will be tens of thousands of lost American souls.

DocBarrister
When the FK will you get it through your skull this pandemic is CHINAS FAULT. Chinese Communists lied and misled the entire world.

182 countries have people DYING in them. ALL BECAUSE OF CHINESE COMMUNISTS
I have no sympathy for the government of China.

Having said that, when you rejoin us from the early 1950s, let me know.

DocBarrister
Screed after raging screed here about TRUMP. Virtually nothing about those most responsible for people dying in all 4 corners of the world except "I have no sympathy for the government of China." Thats a brutal criticism Doc Just brutal
Last edited by 6ftstick on Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Kismet
Posts: 4555
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:42 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by Kismet »

DOPUS new medical advisory team

1. Rudy Giuliani
2. Sean Hannity
3. Peter Navarro
4. The doctor who told him he could live to be 200
5. The surgeon general who said Trump is healthier than a 40-year-old
6. The doctor who said Trump was the healthiest person ever elected president

Everybody feel better, now? :oops:

God help you if you are are on Hydroxychloroquine for Lupus or some other condition for which it is proscribed and now find you cannot obtain it because the Feds and others are hoarding it. Don't think for a minute that Novartis (who makes the drug) sees a business opportunity in a crisis. After all, these are the people that brought us Ritalin. The same company that paid Michael Cohen the big bucks for access to Trump after inauguration and CEO was with Trump in Davos when he downplayed the virus back in January.

Don't forget to tune in to tonight's entertainment show and sales pitch by P.T. DOPUS who still believes that there is a sucker born every minute.

I'd taake Cousin Vinny's advice

Last edited by Kismet on Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:02 am, edited 3 times in total.
runrussellrun
Posts: 7523
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:07 am

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by runrussellrun »

Has the national, nay worldwide, shutdown continued........in spite, of here in the USA....we havent' reached Antietams ONE DAY casualties.

....ask again, What the heck does William Gates, aka Bill....know about vaccines? How many chem & bio labs did HE complete in his short attendance on the banks of the dirty water (it STILL is ) and NOT getting a degree...not even close to getting half the credits needed.....Natalie Portman finished. Took lots of spke lee joint classes.

Of course this is tRumps fault . Mostly, the old (rent control) are dying in NYC. Did I mention rent control. tRumps DO have a history with elderly....rent control.
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
User avatar
RedFromMI
Posts: 5028
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:42 pm

Re: All things COVID-19

Post by RedFromMI »

For some positive news on the COVID-19 front: the IHME (Seattle) group with new numbers - total predicted deaths down significantly to just over 80K.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections

You can drop down to individual states - one easy conclusion is that those states with stricter stay-at-home orders will get over the hump so to speak and down to low levels early in May vs. as late as June for those who have not. (like FL and other southern R states...)
runrussellrun
Posts: 7523
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:07 am

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by runrussellrun »

Kismet wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:17 am DOPUS new medical advisory team

1. Rudy Giuliani
2. Sean Hannity
3. Peter Navarro
4. The doctor who told him he could live to be 200
5. The surgeon general who said Trump is healthier than a 40-year-old
6. The doctor who said Trump was the healthiest person ever elected president

Everybody feel better, now? :oops:

God help you if you are are on Hydroxychloroquine for Lupus or some other condition for which it is proscribed and now find you cannot obtain it because the Feds and others are hoarding it. Don't think for a minute that Novartis (who makes the drug) sees a business opportunity in a crisis. After all, these are the people that brought us Ritalin.

Don't forget to tune in to tonight's entertainment show and sales pitch by P.T. DPOUS who still believes that there is a sucker born every minute.
A good friend has been controlling a condition with bee stings for well over a year. It works. Some people DIE when stung by bees. Others, have POSITIVE reactions.

You decide to close your eyes. (Who were the DOCS that cleared Epstein to play ? :roll: :roll: )
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
seacoaster
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by seacoaster »

User avatar
Brooklyn
Posts: 9903
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by Brooklyn »

DocBarrister wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:35 am
How many is too many?

100,000-240,000 deaths ... the Trump administration’s own optimistic estimate for the current pandemic. They don’t even talk much about non-fatal morbidities, which will impact probably ten times as many patients.

DocBarrister


Image


"It's like the regular flu"
"We've done a great job"
"It's a hoax"
"It'll go away"
""Gone by April"
"All under control"


Hollow words - a sure sign of fake leadership.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by Peter Brown »

runrussellrun wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:51 am
Kismet wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:17 am DOPUS new medical advisory team

1. Rudy Giuliani
2. Sean Hannity
3. Peter Navarro
4. The doctor who told him he could live to be 200
5. The surgeon general who said Trump is healthier than a 40-year-old
6. The doctor who said Trump was the healthiest person ever elected president

Everybody feel better, now? :oops:

God help you if you are are on Hydroxychloroquine for Lupus or some other condition for which it is proscribed and now find you cannot obtain it because the Feds and others are hoarding it. Don't think for a minute that Novartis (who makes the drug) sees a business opportunity in a crisis. After all, these are the people that brought us Ritalin.

Don't forget to tune in to tonight's entertainment show and sales pitch by P.T. DPOUS who still believes that there is a sucker born every minute.
A good friend has been controlling a condition with bee stings for well over a year. It works. Some people DIE when stung by bees. Others, have POSITIVE reactions.

You decide to close your eyes. (Who were the DOCS that cleared Epstein to play ? :roll: :roll: )


The hysterics won't understand that kind of nuance, RRR. The fear hysteria must continue in order to get Joe elected and save RBG's seat! Meanwhile, on planet earth:

https://www.cfr.org/blog/america-safe-place

https://theweek.com/articles/892244/ame ... than-think

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2018 ... ot/9934910
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32762
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

runrussellrun wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:51 am
Kismet wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:17 am DOPUS new medical advisory team

1. Rudy Giuliani
2. Sean Hannity
3. Peter Navarro
4. The doctor who told him he could live to be 200
5. The surgeon general who said Trump is healthier than a 40-year-old
6. The doctor who said Trump was the healthiest person ever elected president

Everybody feel better, now? :oops:

God help you if you are are on Hydroxychloroquine for Lupus or some other condition for which it is proscribed and now find you cannot obtain it because the Feds and others are hoarding it. Don't think for a minute that Novartis (who makes the drug) sees a business opportunity in a crisis. After all, these are the people that brought us Ritalin.

Don't forget to tune in to tonight's entertainment show and sales pitch by P.T. DPOUS who still believes that there is a sucker born every minute.
A good friend has been controlling a condition with bee stings for well over a year. It works. Some people DIE when stung by bees. Others, have POSITIVE reactions.

You decide to close your eyes. (Who were the DOCS that cleared Epstein to play ? :roll: :roll: )
You believe Epstein wasn’t healthy enough to play? You believe the Docs sent him out there knowing in the back of their minds he was in jeopardy?

What injury did he have?
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
User avatar
RedFromMI
Posts: 5028
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:42 pm

Re: All things COVID-19

Post by RedFromMI »

From Twitter and Peter Kolchinsky (Virologist and now manager of a VC firm that invests in biotech firms):
While not technically alive, there's an evil genius to viruses that never ceases to amaze me. It's one reason I became a virologist. A recent Nature paper reveal a remarkable trick SARS-Cov-2 learned that makes it nastier than the first SARS. Both viruses attach via their external spike protein to a protein on our cells called ACE2. Think of it as a particular doorknob that the virus knows how to turn. Every virus has a particular type of doorknob that it attaches to and turns so it can enter (infect) a cell.

For example, HIV has to turn two doorknobs: CD4 and typically CCR5. MERS attached to one called DPP4. All our cells are covered in all kinds of proteins that make them distinctive from one another. Those proteins aren’t there to let in viruses. They have all kinds of functions such as regulating blood pressure, our immune response, sugar levels in our blood, etc. But viruses have evolved to grab onto one or more proteins to gain entry into cells, where they hijack the cell’s machinery to make more viruses. (Viruses can't replicate on their own & hence, are not quite alive).

So what viruses see are a bunch of houses w/ varying doorknobs & they try to spread through the neighborhood (our bodies) looking for houses (cells) covered in the doorknobs that they know how to turn. HIV enters T cells b/c T cells are covered in CD4 & CCR5 doorknobs that HIV knows how to turn. That makes HIV the kind of virus that destroys our immune system.

Well, the ACE2 doorknob that SARS-1 & SARS-2 use is present on a variety of cells, including those in our lungs & throat. SARS-1 would enter a person via a droplet in the air (from cough) & quickly start infecting lung cells, causing severe damage person could really feel (i.e. become symptomatic). In other words, SARS-1 quickly made its presence known. In some patients, SARS-1 would go into the upper airways to replicate from where it could spread to others with a cough (or just breathing). But b/c SARS-1 patients got very sick from all the virus replicating in their lungs, they were quarantined before others got close enough to get sneezed or coughed on.

SARS-2, on the other hand, takes up residence in the throat cells first, which doesn’t cause significant symptoms. The person can remain asymptomatic or might not think they have anything worse than a cold. And from that person’s throat it can readily spread to others. Over the course of a week, in some patients, it will move into the lung neighborhood and replicate just as SARS-1 would, causing severe symptoms, by which point the person is quarantined, but no matter since it had successfully spread.

So SARS-1 was a comparatively dumb virus. It went straight for the lungs, announced itself before it could spread to others, and so got social distanced into extinction. But SAR-2, the one plaguing us now, is stealthier, spreading first before revealing itself (and causing harm).

What’s the take-away for all of us? It’s that beating this virus means social distancing & wearing masks even if we think we aren’t infected. Because we might be. The virus might be replicating in our throats without us knowing (that’s its evil plan!), so put up a roadblock.

These insights come to us thanks to the hard work of researchers in Germany who very carefully studied the replication patterns of SARS-CoV-2 in a small number of patients, measuring everything they could daily over the course of their infections. https://t.co/tOpgvc79C7

Another reassuring insight is that, as these patients’ immune systems revved up and produced antibodies, they stopped producing viable viruses. The researchers could still detect bits of the virus, but they couldn’t find evidence that, among those bits, there was any virus that could actually infect cells. This isn’t a surprising result. It confirms what we already know about how we have survived viruses like this since humans first evolved. Our immune systems fight them off with antibodies. So when we have vaccines that prompt our immune system to produce high levels of such “neutralizing” antibodies that can inactive SARS-2, we’ll have a head start on the virus. Should any virus enter our bodies, those antibodies will help shut it down before it causes harm & keep it from spreading to others.

Some will say "what about antibody-directed enhancement". That's a known risk that can be detected in early animal & human studies. With all the vaccine programs out there, we'll have a good one (or several) that protects us from this pandemic and from future waves of SARS-Cov-2.

Some have asked, why would SARS1 and 2 infect throat & lung cells differently if they both use ACE2. Great question. There’s a lot more to viruses than which doorknobs they turn. Besides spike protein, coronaviruses have many other parts that engage with our machinery. Let’s say SARS2 climbs stairs better & throat cells are a duplex (has stairs). So SARS1 gets tripped up in throat cells & prefers single-story lung cells.

Also, some have questions about whether virus mutates too fast for a vaccine. Short answer, no. We’ll have a vaccine. Here’s detailed explanation. https://t.co/ZQ6RF7NpHt

And for those wondering how America’s insurance system is impacting this pandemic, I’ve written on that. Answer - not good. https://t.co/nKrdHNT2fQ

And finally, if you like complex stuff made simple, have time for reading, & wonder what America can do to fix its healthcare affordability crisis, check out my new book. It’s like the Freakonomics of Drug Pricing. Won’t think of EpiPen & DTC the same. https://t.co/bLEcmWlHcu

And coincidentally, for this book, I researched and wrote about the most widely prescribed generic drug in America called lisinopril... it inhibits ACE1 (related but not same as ACE2) to control blood pressure. It’s just one story among many.
wgdsr
Posts: 9863
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by wgdsr »

a bit of what i was looking for over the weekend just found...
https://nypost.com/2020/03/22/coronavir ... t-illness/
march 6th testing for the entire population of vo, who had country's first confirmed case. ~ 90? people were infected already though most asymptomatic.
ackman just referenced as many as 50x greater number than thought previously asymptomatic, then separately referenced study of a california town that informed that opinion. if anyone has time and skills to find that study, i'd appreciate it.
california's numbers have never made any sense to me. i'm not an epidemiologist... still - 8000 people per day to and fro directly from china for months.... the imperial college dr whose group modeled huge herd immunity was intriguing.
how big is this?
i have my own suspicions, there's other data that belie this, but the data we get tracking this virus is so flawed it's almost counterproductive.
Post Reply

Return to “POLITICS”