Ivy League
-
- Posts: 1793
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:23 pm
Re: Ivy League 2020
This may be apostasy from an Ivy standpoint, but if you look at the Top Twenty in the coaches' poll, there are a lot of schools who allow grad students to play, have good accelerated MBA or Masters in Finance programs that offer aid. If I put the students first, I'd say, why not go to Duke, UVA, ND, UNC, etc, and get an important long term career qualification for free? Frankly, I don't see the Ivies changing policy, and (absent extensive financial backing) the idea of gaming the system by withdrawing doesn't make sense for many.
Re: Ivy League 2020
In UR example they are not graduate students they are fifth year undergrads. This is not “normal” so need to think outside the box.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:18 pmI just don't see graduate students being allowed to participate. As for tuition, however aid is normally handled should be the standard.
In your solution not everyone can afford it, schools have different policies in same league and there is no academic benefit to the student athlete with little time for players to consider alternatives. While I realize it’s different, these times call for different solutions. I would expect the idea to be picked apart due potential violations of other existing policies or for some unanticipated consequence I’m missing but not because it’s not already on the books.... the solution could be applied beyond sports as well to consider all students who may have missed out on a unique opportunity.
-
- Posts: 34189
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm
Re: Ivy League 2020
The withdrawal rule is already in place. It applies to all students. Not just athletes. It would really on be practical for this year’s seniors. I don’t see any underclassmen withdrawing now to save a year. Grad school seems like a better long term option. Each school already has their own policy. I would not over complicate it.RedIvy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:40 pmIn UR example they are not graduate students they are fifth year undergrads. This is not “normal” so need to think outside the box.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:18 pmI just don't see graduate students being allowed to participate. As for tuition, however aid is normally handled should be the standard.
In your solution not everyone can afford it, schools have different policies in same league and there is no academic benefit to the student athlete with little time for players to consider alternatives. While I realize it’s different, these times call for different solutions. I would expect the idea to be picked apart due potential violations of other existing policies or for some unanticipated consequence I’m missing but not because it’s not already on the books.... the solution could be applied beyond sports as well to consider all students who may have missed out on a unique opportunity.
“I wish you would!”
- youthathletics
- Posts: 15863
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm
Re: Ivy League 2020
That part in red gets interesting? What would stop all the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players to also do the same thing as Sowers has chosen to do?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:20 amThe withdrawal rule is already in place. It applies to all students. Not just athletes. It would really on be practical for this year’s seniors. I don’t see any underclassmen withdrawing now to save a year. Grad school seems like a better long term option. Each school already has their own policy. I would not over complicate it.RedIvy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:40 pmIn UR example they are not graduate students they are fifth year undergrads. This is not “normal” so need to think outside the box.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:18 pmI just don't see graduate students being allowed to participate. As for tuition, however aid is normally handled should be the standard.
In your solution not everyone can afford it, schools have different policies in same league and there is no academic benefit to the student athlete with little time for players to consider alternatives. While I realize it’s different, these times call for different solutions. I would expect the idea to be picked apart due potential violations of other existing policies or for some unanticipated consequence I’m missing but not because it’s not already on the books.... the solution could be applied beyond sports as well to consider all students who may have missed out on a unique opportunity.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
-
- Posts: 34189
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm
Re: Ivy League 2020
There is nothing to stop them. I just don’t see freshmen and sophomores withdrawing now to save a year. Better option would be to keep your grad school option open. The senior class is in an odd spot. The quality of the spring academic experience has been diminished along with all the activity that leads up to graduation. Missing that is more of an issue than missing lacrosse games, in my opinion.youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:31 amThat part in red gets interesting? What would stop all the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players to also do the same thing as Sowers has chosen to do?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:20 amThe withdrawal rule is already in place. It applies to all students. Not just athletes. It would really on be practical for this year’s seniors. I don’t see any underclassmen withdrawing now to save a year. Grad school seems like a better long term option. Each school already has their own policy. I would not over complicate it.RedIvy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:40 pmIn UR example they are not graduate students they are fifth year undergrads. This is not “normal” so need to think outside the box.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:18 pmI just don't see graduate students being allowed to participate. As for tuition, however aid is normally handled should be the standard.
In your solution not everyone can afford it, schools have different policies in same league and there is no academic benefit to the student athlete with little time for players to consider alternatives. While I realize it’s different, these times call for different solutions. I would expect the idea to be picked apart due potential violations of other existing policies or for some unanticipated consequence I’m missing but not because it’s not already on the books.... the solution could be applied beyond sports as well to consider all students who may have missed out on a unique opportunity.
“I wish you would!”
Re: Ivy League 2020
Can someone answer this question.
If an IVY kid graduates and moves on to another college to play the added eligible year, can he be given scholarship monies out of the original 12.6
Bit confused whether a transfer can revive monies in any shape or form but have to assume that NCAA cant restrict financial aid if needed
Looking for clarification
If an IVY kid graduates and moves on to another college to play the added eligible year, can he be given scholarship monies out of the original 12.6
Bit confused whether a transfer can revive monies in any shape or form but have to assume that NCAA cant restrict financial aid if needed
Looking for clarification
-
- Posts: 34189
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm
Re: Ivy League 2020
I believe the coach can decide how to divvy up his money. The coach would probably have to take money away from someone else. Also, there is often money available as coaches increase awards to producing players over time.stupefied wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:56 am Can someone answer this question.
If an IVY kid graduates and moves on to another college to play the added eligible year, can he be given scholarship monies out of the original 12.6
Bit confused whether a transfer can revive monies in any shape or form but have to assume that NCAA cant restrict financial aid if needed
Looking for clarification
“I wish you would!”
- youthathletics
- Posts: 15863
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm
Re: Ivy League 2020
Some commentary from LXN and Jamie Munro on this topic. Not much fact anywhere, but worth a listen nonetheless. https://www.instagram.com/p/B-asUPjBywa/Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:10 amI believe the coach can decide how to divvy up his money. The coach would probably have to take money away from someone else. Also, there is often money available as coaches increase awards to producing players over time.stupefied wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:56 am Can someone answer this question.
If an IVY kid graduates and moves on to another college to play the added eligible year, can he be given scholarship monies out of the original 12.6
Bit confused whether a transfer can revive monies in any shape or form but have to assume that NCAA cant restrict financial aid if needed
Looking for clarification
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
Re: Ivy League 2020
Appreciate clarification .Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:10 amI believe the coach can decide how to divvy up his money. The coach would probably have to take money away from someone else. Also, there is often money available as coaches increase awards to producing players over time.stupefied wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:56 am Can someone answer this question.
If an IVY kid graduates and moves on to another college to play the added eligible year, can he be given scholarship monies out of the original 12.6
Bit confused whether a transfer can revive monies in any shape or form but have to assume that NCAA cant restrict financial aid if needed
Looking for clarification
My understanding was that schools if hey choose can give the same monies to their 5th yr players that return and that wouldn't count agaisnt the 12.6 but they couldn't offer any of those additional scholarship monies (> 12.6 ) to anyone else on roster nor transfers.
Your clarification if I understanding right is that transfers could possibly be given monies from the original 12.6 since coaches reallocate most years.. Two financial determinants of where transfers are likely to land would be what program has financial flexibility and what is actual financial need of transfer. Would think a affluent family would allow wider choice while a player from middle class family would be be more reliant on either some aid or a lower price public. Will be interesting
Re: Ivy League 2020
Yes a grad transfer from the Ivy can get athletic scholarship money as long as it is within the 12.6. Teams can only exceed the 12.6 for returning seniors up to the amount those returning seniors received in 2019-20. This exception will only apply for 2020-21. Everyone will have to fit back in under 12.6 beginning in 2021-22.stupefied wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:56 am Can someone answer this question.
If an IVY kid graduates and moves on to another college to play the added eligible year, can he be given scholarship monies out of the original 12.6
Bit confused whether a transfer can revive monies in any shape or form but have to assume that NCAA cant restrict financial aid if needed
Looking for clarification
Re: Ivy League 2020
This prior take on IVY maintaining policy turned out to be correct.faircornell wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:23 pm This may be apostasy from an Ivy standpoint, but if you look at the Top Twenty in the coaches' poll, there are a lot of schools who allow grad students to play, have good accelerated MBA or Masters in Finance programs that offer aid. If I put the students first, I'd say, why not go to Duke, UVA, ND, UNC, etc, and get an important long term career qualification for free? Frankly, I don't see the Ivies changing policy, and (absent extensive financial backing) the idea of gaming the system by withdrawing doesn't make sense for many.
One question: Realize the academic qualifications are there for most IVY students but would applications for graduate school be too late for Sept 2020 admissions?
Re: Ivy League 2020
Excluding Phd and JD programs as well as most MBA programs, I think outside the Ivies that most D1 lacrosse schools will make late admissions work in some 1 year grad programs for a top athlete. It may not be a masters degree that has significant value upon graduation, but it's something.
Re: Ivy League 2020
This is exactly the ethos the Ivy League presidents are set on avoiding: going to college primarily to play a sport rather than to get a meaningful education. Intercollegiate athletics should be an undergraduate extracurricular activity, secondary to your education. These schools don't want to be, or be seen as, a Louisville or Kentucky.thetruth wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:39 pm Excluding Phd and JD programs as well as most MBA programs, I think outside the Ivies that most D1 lacrosse schools will make late admissions work in some 1 year grad programs for a top athlete. It may not be a masters degree that has significant value upon graduation, but it's something.
-
- Posts: 1793
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:23 pm
Re: Ivy League 2020
For grad school admission, I assume that some exceptions would need to be made. I do know that some MBA programs give strong consideration to applicants who have demonstrated leadership, discipline and exceptional performance in practical endeavors. Looking holistically, and FWIW, it seems like it would be a "win win" for a Notre Dame, UVA or Duke to add someone like a Teat, Ierlan or Sowers to both their business and lacrosse programs.stupefied wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:16 pmThis prior take on IVY maintaining policy turned out to be correct.faircornell wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:23 pm This may be apostasy from an Ivy standpoint, but if you look at the Top Twenty in the coaches' poll, there are a lot of schools who allow grad students to play, have good accelerated MBA or Masters in Finance programs that offer aid. If I put the students first, I'd say, why not go to Duke, UVA, ND, UNC, etc, and get an important long term career qualification for free? Frankly, I don't see the Ivies changing policy, and (absent extensive financial backing) the idea of gaming the system by withdrawing doesn't make sense for many.
One question: Realize the academic qualifications are there for most IVY students but would applications for graduate school be too late for Sept 2020 admissions?
Re: Ivy League 2020
Historically, most of the top MBA programs required significant work experience (2-3 years minimum) prior to enrolling. Not sure if that has changed as it's been 2 decades since I attended.
-
- Posts: 1793
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:23 pm
Re: Ivy League 2020
In most cases, this is correct. I do know that many schools leave a few slots open for fresh graduates who have demonstrated signifiant accomplishment. Connor Buczek of Cornell was admitted to Cornell's Johnson School straight from undergraduate (one of a very few that year) since he was viewed as exceptional. I know that some of the top 5 MBA programs do this as well. I do not know if the ACC schools that I have noted have such flexibility. I might be simply being idealistic.
Re: Ivy League 2020
There are 5th year kids each year who go get an MBA at the 1 year programs, players recently from Gtown went to Duke and another went to ND with no work experience outside of summer internships. Great way to get in and have the lax program help pay some % $$.