Progressive Ideology

[MDlaxfan76]

Yeah a Fan, like it or not all of us here in NYS just signed on for Crony socialism with the wonderful deal that Amazon got in NYS. Can you tell me again how this is so good for those of us in Upstate NY? Sorry but I know you have this wonderful Shangri-La vision for what more socialism will do for our nation. Ain't seeing your vision right now, we are just seeing more of our money headed downstate in a very big way. But I guess those hicks like us in upstate NY just aren't seeing the bigger picture. That picture involves drop trau, bend over, grab your ankles... Andy wants to take a picture with you.

You missed my comment on that, old friend. I'd be over the moon livid if I were you. NO ONE was happier than I was that Denver "lost" the Amazon HQ game.

And OF COURSE your home State gave out perqs that far surpassed what Virginia did. You're living in a fantastically corrupt State when it comes to these line item tax handouts.

Sorry, mate. Truly sorry for you.

There are beginning to be whispers in NYS that Andy may have committed some possible crimes with this deal with Amazon. Oddly enough it is being roundly criticized by democrats and republicans in the state. NYS taxpayers will have to fork up 48000 dollars for each job created. Newly minted congresswoman Ocasio Cortez is concerned that the jobs wont go to the people living Queens and inquired if these will be union jobs. In the meantime Rochester and Buffalo this week each had long standing companies shut their doors... 1000 jobs lost. The plant in Buffalo is the New Era company that the Buffalo Bills Stadium is named after. Actually new era is not going oob, production is being sent out of the country. I am not whining about it because it is what it is. This is why so many people in upstate are heading elsewhere. It has become too damn expensive to live here on a fixed income. In the midst of this problem NYS taxpayers will be asked to dig even deeper one more time. It is great to have new jobs but Andy selling his soul to the devil to get them is not helping NYS as a whole. I hope the devil is not insulted by being compared to Bezos.

cradle, are you saying that because upstaters are leaving Upstate, "heading elsewhere", that it's getting more expensive to live there?
If so, I don't understand the economics.

On the $48K per job, how much of that is actual taxpayer funding versus tax breaks for the new corporate taxpayer, Amazon?
And what are the projected other tax inflows to the State for the 25k new, high paying jobs? (ignore all the positive spillover effects to other businesses and employment).
1 year, 5 years, 10 years?

I'm not saying that these sorts of deals always give the bang for the buck we'd like (stadiums are way, way worse though), but I sure as heck know that my hometown of Baltimore would have been overjoyed to have been chosen and Maryland was very prepared to pony up big. The Baltimore site, side by side with Under Armour in Port Covington/South Baltimore industrial area,, would have been tremendously helpful as an anchor employer, esp. in the tech arena. And yes, those spillover effects would have been terrific for overall regional economic growth and employment.

[CU77]

A real shame amazon didn't choose a Red state. Those areas really need to be brought into the 21st century economy. Amazon could have helped bridge the Red-Blue dichotomy. Instead we get the same ole high-tech high-finance Blue centers further reinforced.

[a fan]

On the $48K per job, how much of that is actual taxpayer funding versus tax breaks for the new corporate taxpayer, Amazon?
And what are the projected other tax inflows to the State for the 25k new, high paying jobs? (ignore all the positive spillover effects to other businesses and employment).
1 year, 5 years, 10 years?

I'm not saying that these sorts of deals always give the bang for the buck we'd like (stadiums are way, way worse though), but I sure as heck know that my hometown of Baltimore would have been overjoyed to have been chosen and Maryland was very prepared to pony up big.

This is the, sorry, ridiculous math that's used to "justify" these deals. If you really believe this math works, why do we tax businesses at all? ALL businesses add jobs, and those workers pay taxes and add to the local economy.

Leaving out any notion of fairness, the obvious parts that this half-@ssed math leaves out are:

1. The business consumers government services, just like everyone/thing else in the city/county/State in question. Roads, cops, fired dept., bridges, schools, power, water, Health Department, and on and on and on.

2. When single businesses aren't taxed, one of three things happen: all other entities must pay more to make up for the "special" business that doesn't pay into the pot for government services. Or the rest of the community will get fewer/less government services. Or both.

This whole stupid notion of tax breaks for individual large companies assumes that these enormous businesses don't consume government services.

I can make this math singularly easy: If Amazon HQ in Crystal City calls the fire department, do they show up? Yes! So enough with the idea that Amazon somehow adds tax money to the local economy via its employees, and "therefore" Amazon HQ doesn't need to pay full taxes that every other business in the area is forced to pay for the same damn service. The math doesn't work. It never has. All it is is the 1% making excuses for giving away the ship to the 1%.

If Amazon HQ arrived in Denver, do I really need to explain how big of a stress that would be on the region's infrastructure? So why would Denver charge them one cent less in taxes than the going tax rate to cover that increased infrastructure cost? There's no sound economic reason to give them a pass on taxes.

[youthathletics]

Not sure how this parlays into the math/tax discussion but it has been communicated over the air, that Amazon will be paying for (some) infrastructure modifications. Roads, widening, parks, etc. After all the negotiating is done, I am sure Amazon comes out smelling cleaner, but the municipality also benefits with a large business like this providing immediate funding for projects that otherwise could take years and years to fund.

All I know i traffic is going to be a MFer on Route 1 and the GW Parkway surrounding this area.

[a fan]

Not sure how this parlays into the math/tax discussion but it has been communicated over the air, that Amazon will be paying for (some) infrastructure modifications. Roads, widening, parks, etc. After all the negotiating is done, I am sure Amazon comes out smelling cleaner, but the municipality also benefits with a large business like this providing immediate funding for projects that otherwise could take years and years to fund.

Again, no. It's simple: for every penny that Amazon doesn't pay in at the same rate that every single other business in the area pays, the city, county, and State government suffers. Period. No BS math will change that fact. And if they take Amazon's reduced taxes, and don't spend it on normal city operations, that's going to compound problems across every government department.

25,000 new people to the area. How do you figure that adding 25,000 people to Long Island city won't have a strain on government infrastructure, and "therefore", they don't need the normal tax revenue from Amazon that they get from every single business operating there? Do you not see how ridiculous this thinking is? If anything, Amazon should be taxed MORE for having an outsized effect on the city, not less.

We had this same ridiculous discussion when we talked about the Carrier tax deal in Indiana, remember? This is a very Republican way of thinking. You think that because a State is large, that the reduction in taxes has no effect, and that because there are tens of thousand of businesses in New York, "somehow" the math on the Amazon deal will work out. This is patently absurd "logic".

[youthathletics]

I hear you loud and clear on the taxes issue, but you glossed over the fact that it is has been communicated Amazon will be paying for infrastructure modifications. I fully understand the lower tax argument. I am not sure one can measure the value of an anticipated 25k new employees over so-many years vs a municipality collecting all that "extra" tax income in perpetuity if they would otherwise never had struck a deal and Amazon rolled out.

EDIT: Just read a few articles, seems Amazon is NOT paying for those infrastructure mods as was originally communicated earlier this week.

[cradleandshoot]

Yeah a Fan, like it or not all of us here in NYS just signed on for Crony socialism with the wonderful deal that Amazon got in NYS. Can you tell me again how this is so good for those of us in Upstate NY? Sorry but I know you have this wonderful Shangri-La vision for what more socialism will do for our nation. Ain't seeing your vision right now, we are just seeing more of our money headed downstate in a very big way. But I guess those hicks like us in upstate NY just aren't seeing the bigger picture. That picture involves drop trau, bend over, grab your ankles... Andy wants to take a picture with you.

You missed my comment on that, old friend. I'd be over the moon livid if I were you. NO ONE was happier than I was that Denver "lost" the Amazon HQ game.

And OF COURSE your home State gave out perqs that far surpassed what Virginia did. You're living in a fantastically corrupt State when it comes to these line item tax handouts.

Sorry, mate. Truly sorry for you.

There are beginning to be whispers in NYS that Andy may have committed some possible crimes with this deal with Amazon. Oddly enough it is being roundly criticized by democrats and republicans in the state. NYS taxpayers will have to fork up 48000 dollars for each job created. Newly minted congresswoman Ocasio Cortez is concerned that the jobs wont go to the people living Queens and inquired if these will be union jobs. In the meantime Rochester and Buffalo this week each had long standing companies shut their doors... 1000 jobs lost. The plant in Buffalo is the New Era company that the Buffalo Bills Stadium is named after. Actually new era is not going oob, production is being sent out of the country. I am not whining about it because it is what it is. This is why so many people in upstate are heading elsewhere. It has become too damn expensive to live here on a fixed income. In the midst of this problem NYS taxpayers will be asked to dig even deeper one more time. It is great to have new jobs but Andy selling his soul to the devil to get them is not helping NYS as a whole. I hope the devil is not insulted by being compared to Bezos.

cradle, are you saying that because upstaters are leaving Upstate, "heading elsewhere", that it's getting more expensive to live there?
If so, I don't understand the economics.

On the $48K per job, how much of that is actual taxpayer funding versus tax breaks for the new corporate taxpayer, Amazon?
And what are the projected other tax inflows to the State for the 25k new, high paying jobs? (ignore all the positive spillover effects to other businesses and employment).
1 year, 5 years, 10 years?

I'm not saying that these sorts of deals always give the bang for the buck we'd like (stadiums are way, way worse though), but I sure as heck know that my hometown of Baltimore would have been overjoyed to have been chosen and Maryland was very prepared to pony up big. The Baltimore site, side by side with Under Armour in Port Covington/South Baltimore industrial area,, would have been tremendously helpful as an anchor employer, esp. in the tech arena. And yes, those spillover effects would have been terrific for overall regional economic growth and employment.

I am more concerned that Buffalo and Rochester lost 1000 jobs last week. Queens NY gaining 25000 jobs on our dime is not doing a damn thing for western and central NY. We are 350 miles from NYC. Amazon moving to Queens... if it even happens won't help the people of western and central NY. The only thing we get out of it is the tab... The same thing happened with that new bridge they built over the Hudson. I refuse to use the name that Andy paid so much for. You are missing the point here MD. Those of us that have lived in NYS our entire lives are being forced out because once you retire on a fixed income... your giblets are being squeezed in a tax vise. My wife and I have crunched the numbers. We have done very well in our savings and investments. If you have ever listened to Bob Brinker you understand what the land of critical mass is.

Moving out of NYS is not something we want to do... it is something we HAVE to do. The bottom line about how much it will cost us to live here when we retire is mind numbing. It should not be that way but that is life in the real world. I am not whining about it, I have just accepted the reality for what it is. I feel so very sorry for the poor bastards that will be left here in NYS to deal with the incompetence, corruption and graft that is business as usual in NYS. The only bright spot for me would be witnessing that crooked, lying and corrupt governor of this state being perp walked to jail in metal bracelets. He could join all his other best friends for life in a prison cell. Andy Cuomo is nothing more than a pint sized version of Donald Trump. As a matter of fact it is hard for me to believe that they are not related in some way.

[MDlaxfan76]

Yeah a Fan, like it or not all of us here in NYS just signed on for Crony socialism with the wonderful deal that Amazon got in NYS. Can you tell me again how this is so good for those of us in Upstate NY? Sorry but I know you have this wonderful Shangri-La vision for what more socialism will do for our nation. Ain't seeing your vision right now, we are just seeing more of our money headed downstate in a very big way. But I guess those hicks like us in upstate NY just aren't seeing the bigger picture. That picture involves drop trau, bend over, grab your ankles... Andy wants to take a picture with you.

You missed my comment on that, old friend. I'd be over the moon livid if I were you. NO ONE was happier than I was that Denver "lost" the Amazon HQ game.

And OF COURSE your home State gave out perqs that far surpassed what Virginia did. You're living in a fantastically corrupt State when it comes to these line item tax handouts.

Sorry, mate. Truly sorry for you.

There are beginning to be whispers in NYS that Andy may have committed some possible crimes with this deal with Amazon. Oddly enough it is being roundly criticized by democrats and republicans in the state. NYS taxpayers will have to fork up 48000 dollars for each job created. Newly minted congresswoman Ocasio Cortez is concerned that the jobs wont go to the people living Queens and inquired if these will be union jobs. In the meantime Rochester and Buffalo this week each had long standing companies shut their doors... 1000 jobs lost. The plant in Buffalo is the New Era company that the Buffalo Bills Stadium is named after. Actually new era is not going oob, production is being sent out of the country. I am not whining about it because it is what it is. This is why so many people in upstate are heading elsewhere. It has become too damn expensive to live here on a fixed income. In the midst of this problem NYS taxpayers will be asked to dig even deeper one more time. It is great to have new jobs but Andy selling his soul to the devil to get them is not helping NYS as a whole. I hope the devil is not insulted by being compared to Bezos.

cradle, are you saying that because upstaters are leaving Upstate, "heading elsewhere", that it's getting more expensive to live there?
If so, I don't understand the economics.

On the $48K per job, how much of that is actual taxpayer funding versus tax breaks for the new corporate taxpayer, Amazon?
And what are the projected other tax inflows to the State for the 25k new, high paying jobs? (ignore all the positive spillover effects to other businesses and employment).
1 year, 5 years, 10 years?

I'm not saying that these sorts of deals always give the bang for the buck we'd like (stadiums are way, way worse though), but I sure as heck know that my hometown of Baltimore would have been overjoyed to have been chosen and Maryland was very prepared to pony up big. The Baltimore site, side by side with Under Armour in Port Covington/South Baltimore industrial area,, would have been tremendously helpful as an anchor employer, esp. in the tech arena. And yes, those spillover effects would have been terrific for overall regional economic growth and employment.

I am more concerned that Buffalo and Rochester lost 1000 jobs last week. Queens NY gaining 25000 jobs on our dime is not doing a damn thing for western and central NY. We are 350 miles from NYC. Amazon moving to Queens... if it even happens won't help the people of western and central NY. The only thing we get out of it is the tab... The same thing happened with that new bridge they built over the Hudson. I refuse to use the name that Andy paid so much for. You are missing the point here MD. Those of us that have lived in NYS our entire lives are being forced out because once you retire on a fixed income... your giblets are being squeezed in a tax vise. My wife and I have crunched the numbers. We have done very well in our savings and investments. If you have ever listened to Bob Brinker you understand what the land of critical mass is.

Moving out of NYS is not something we want to do... it is something we HAVE to do. The bottom line about how much it will cost us to live here when we retire is mind numbing. It should not be that way but that is life in the real world. I am not whining about it, I have just accepted the reality for what it is. I feel so very sorry for the poor bastards that will be left here in NYS to deal with the incompetence, corruption and graft that is business as usual in NYS. The only bright spot for me would be witnessing that crooked, lying and corrupt governor of this state being perp walked to jail in metal bracelets. He could join all his other best friends for life in a prison cell. Andy Cuomo is nothing more than a pint sized version of Donald Trump. As a matter of fact it is hard for me to believe that they are not related in some way.

I have zero basis of opinion on Andy Cuomo, so I'll accept your view of him as likely more informed than my own!

And I do understand that a fixed income can be insufficient to live on comfortably in a high living cost and tax jurisdiction. Lot of people move to Florida for that reason. My parents took Florida residency for that reason, quite understandable.

I was just reacting to the notion that people leaving Upstate was actually causing increased living costs in Upstate (I understand the other way around).

But this notion that the Amazon deal is necessarily being "paid for by NYS taxpayers" may well be a gross misunderstanding of the actual economics. If I'm not mistaken, New York State (meaning NYS taxpayers) stand to get a very large ROI on this deal. Very net positive.

If that's correct, Upstate taxpayers benefit just the same as downstate.
That's the taxpayer side.

What is fair to say is that the economy near all these jobs will benefit far more than the economy a couple of hours away. Restaurants, real estate, etc, big local ripple effect; esp. in Queens...which is probably a darn good thing for that area, much needed. But it doesn't "cost" Upstate taxpayers a nickel if the net revenues increase as a result.

[MDlaxfan76]

On the $48K per job, how much of that is actual taxpayer funding versus tax breaks for the new corporate taxpayer, Amazon?
And what are the projected other tax inflows to the State for the 25k new, high paying jobs? (ignore all the positive spillover effects to other businesses and employment).
1 year, 5 years, 10 years?

I'm not saying that these sorts of deals always give the bang for the buck we'd like (stadiums are way, way worse though), but I sure as heck know that my hometown of Baltimore would have been overjoyed to have been chosen and Maryland was very prepared to pony up big.

This is the, sorry, ridiculous math that's used to "justify" these deals. If you really believe this math works, why do we tax businesses at all? ALL businesses add jobs, and those workers pay taxes and add to the local economy.

Leaving out any notion of fairness, the obvious parts that this half-@ssed math leaves out are:

1. The business consumers government services, just like everyone/thing else in the city/county/State in question. Roads, cops, fired dept., bridges, schools, power, water, Health Department, and on and on and on.

2. When single businesses aren't taxed, one of three things happen: all other entities must pay more to make up for the "special" business that doesn't pay into the pot for government services. Or the rest of the community will get fewer/less government services. Or both.

This whole stupid notion of tax breaks for individual large companies assumes that these enormous businesses don't consume government services.

I can make this math singularly easy: If Amazon HQ in Crystal City calls the fire department, do they show up? Yes! So enough with the idea that Amazon somehow adds tax money to the local economy via its employees, and "therefore" Amazon HQ doesn't need to pay full taxes that every other business in the area is forced to pay for the same damn service. The math doesn't work. It never has. All it is is the 1% making excuses for giving away the ship to the 1%.

If Amazon HQ arrived in Denver, do I really need to explain how big of a stress that would be on the region's infrastructure? So why would Denver charge them one cent less in taxes than the going tax rate to cover that increased infrastructure cost? There's no sound economic reason to give them a pass on taxes.

a fan, we're going to have to part company on this one.

You are ignoring marginal contribution, both costs and benefits.

Absolutely there are increased costs of adding 25,000 people and the services needed to support that population. But the marginal costs of doing so are lower than the average without them.

On the benefit side, add well above average income jobs/residents and you are contributing more marginal spending and more marginal personal income taxes, than the average.

Again, Baltimore would have been thrilled to have landed one of these sites. Would have been transformative for us.

Less so, for sure, in NYC and NVA/DC. But still incrementally very positive.

[cradleandshoot]

Yeah a Fan, like it or not all of us here in NYS just signed on for Crony socialism with the wonderful deal that Amazon got in NYS. Can you tell me again how this is so good for those of us in Upstate NY? Sorry but I know you have this wonderful Shangri-La vision for what more socialism will do for our nation. Ain't seeing your vision right now, we are just seeing more of our money headed downstate in a very big way. But I guess those hicks like us in upstate NY just aren't seeing the bigger picture. That picture involves drop trau, bend over, grab your ankles... Andy wants to take a picture with you.

You missed my comment on that, old friend. I'd be over the moon livid if I were you. NO ONE was happier than I was that Denver "lost" the Amazon HQ game.

And OF COURSE your home State gave out perqs that far surpassed what Virginia did. You're living in a fantastically corrupt State when it comes to these line item tax handouts.

Sorry, mate. Truly sorry for you.

There are beginning to be whispers in NYS that Andy may have committed some possible crimes with this deal with Amazon. Oddly enough it is being roundly criticized by democrats and republicans in the state. NYS taxpayers will have to fork up 48000 dollars for each job created. Newly minted congresswoman Ocasio Cortez is concerned that the jobs wont go to the people living Queens and inquired if these will be union jobs. In the meantime Rochester and Buffalo this week each had long standing companies shut their doors... 1000 jobs lost. The plant in Buffalo is the New Era company that the Buffalo Bills Stadium is named after. Actually new era is not going oob, production is being sent out of the country. I am not whining about it because it is what it is. This is why so many people in upstate are heading elsewhere. It has become too damn expensive to live here on a fixed income. In the midst of this problem NYS taxpayers will be asked to dig even deeper one more time. It is great to have new jobs but Andy selling his soul to the devil to get them is not helping NYS as a whole. I hope the devil is not insulted by being compared to Bezos.

cradle, are you saying that because upstaters are leaving Upstate, "heading elsewhere", that it's getting more expensive to live there?
If so, I don't understand the economics.

On the $48K per job, how much of that is actual taxpayer funding versus tax breaks for the new corporate taxpayer, Amazon?
And what are the projected other tax inflows to the State for the 25k new, high paying jobs? (ignore all the positive spillover effects to other businesses and employment).
1 year, 5 years, 10 years?

I'm not saying that these sorts of deals always give the bang for the buck we'd like (stadiums are way, way worse though), but I sure as heck know that my hometown of Baltimore would have been overjoyed to have been chosen and Maryland was very prepared to pony up big. The Baltimore site, side by side with Under Armour in Port Covington/South Baltimore industrial area,, would have been tremendously helpful as an anchor employer, esp. in the tech arena. And yes, those spillover effects would have been terrific for overall regional economic growth and employment.

I am more concerned that Buffalo and Rochester lost 1000 jobs last week. Queens NY gaining 25000 jobs on our dime is not doing a damn thing for western and central NY. We are 350 miles from NYC. Amazon moving to Queens... if it even happens won't help the people of western and central NY. The only thing we get out of it is the tab... The same thing happened with that new bridge they built over the Hudson. I refuse to use the name that Andy paid so much for. You are missing the point here MD. Those of us that have lived in NYS our entire lives are being forced out because once you retire on a fixed income... your giblets are being squeezed in a tax vise. My wife and I have crunched the numbers. We have done very well in our savings and investments. If you have ever listened to Bob Brinker you understand what the land of critical mass is.

Moving out of NYS is not something we want to do... it is something we HAVE to do. The bottom line about how much it will cost us to live here when we retire is mind numbing. It should not be that way but that is life in the real world. I am not whining about it, I have just accepted the reality for what it is. I feel so very sorry for the poor bastards that will be left here in NYS to deal with the incompetence, corruption and graft that is business as usual in NYS. The only bright spot for me would be witnessing that crooked, lying and corrupt governor of this state being perp walked to jail in metal bracelets. He could join all his other best friends for life in a prison cell. Andy Cuomo is nothing more than a pint sized version of Donald Trump. As a matter of fact it is hard for me to believe that they are not related in some way.

I have zero basis of opinion on Andy Cuomo, so I'll accept your view of him as likely more informed than my own!

And I do understand that a fixed income can be insufficient to live on comfortably in a high living cost and tax jurisdiction. Lot of people move to Florida for that reason. My parents took Florida residency for that reason, quite understandable.

I was just reacting to the notion that people leaving Upstate was actually causing increased living costs in Upstate (I understand the other way around).

But this notion that the Amazon deal is necessarily being "paid for by NYS taxpayers" may well be a gross misunderstanding of the actual economics. If I'm not mistaken, New York State (meaning NYS taxpayers) stand to get a very large ROI on this deal. Very net positive.

If that's correct, Upstate taxpayers benefit just the same as downstate.
That's the taxpayer side.

What is fair to say is that the economy near all these jobs will benefit far more than the economy a couple of hours away. Restaurants, real estate, etc, big local ripple effect; esp. in Queens...which is probably a darn good thing for that area, much needed. But it doesn't "cost" Upstate taxpayers a nickel if the net revenues increase as a result.

Property taxes and unfunded mandates to the counties in NYS. The 2 biggest back breakers. In Monroe County around 80% of the county budget is required by the state of NY in unfunded mandates. That is in simplest term the powers that be in NYS telling all the counties what they have to spend. Whether it is affordable to the counties is irrelevant. There is not a county executive that I know of in upstate that is not 100% frustrated by this. These costs are passed over onto local residents via their property taxes. Which is the bottom line why so many boomers like my wife and I will be heading out of state.

Our property taxes on a very modest suburban home are over 6000 dollars a year. My best friend and neighbor and his wife just built a brand new house in South Carolina. Their property taxes are just over 900 a year. Granted that is not an apples to apples comparison but the savings per year is around 5000 dollars. On a fixed income that is a big deal. After 10 years that is 50000 thousand dollars to your benefit. I my wife and I could do a lot of traveling in 10 years for 50 grand. It becomes a no brainer after awhile. I don't like the idea of leaving my home state. It comes down to making the best financial decision for your future.

[dislaxxic]

Ocasio-Cortez Suggests Ditching Columbus Day For Election Day Holiday

Good idea...

..

[kramerica.inc]

The "Fudge" factor.

Pelosi cuts a deal for Fudge's compliance:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/nancy-pelosi- ... 04988.html

[holmes435]

Property taxes and unfunded mandates to the counties in NYS. The 2 biggest back breakers. In Monroe County around 80% of the county budget is required by the state of NY in unfunded mandates. That is in simplest term the powers that be in NYS telling all the counties what they have to spend. Whether it is affordable to the counties is irrelevant. There is not a county executive that I know of in upstate that is not 100% frustrated by this. These costs are passed over onto local residents via their property taxes. Which is the bottom line why so many boomers like my wife and I will be heading out of state.

Our property taxes on a very modest suburban home are over 6000 dollars a year. My best friend and neighbor and his wife just built a brand new house in South Carolina. Their property taxes are just over 900 a year. Granted that is not an apples to apples comparison but the savings per year is around 5000 dollars. On a fixed income that is a big deal. After 10 years that is 50000 thousand dollars to your benefit. I my wife and I could do a lot of traveling in 10 years for 50 grand. It becomes a no brainer after awhile. I don't like the idea of leaving my home state. It comes down to making the best financial decision for your future.

That is a good amount of money, and you certainly have to make good financial decisions to ensure a healthy retirement. You also get what you pay for in a lot of things - which is why NY is ranked decently better than SC for things like Education, Health Care access and treatment, infrastructure, crime rate and more. Looking out for #1 is important, but if we also don't look out for each other, the country is going to suffer.

[cradleandshoot]

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... ments.html This is what you get when you want socialists to run your life. NYC deserves BD, they are both dysfunctional entities that don't know what hell they are trying to accomplish. Only in a thriving metropolis of brain damaged FLP types could an idiotic moron such as Bill Deblasio ever be elected to lead anything. Only in NYC could these same residents not recognize abject stupidity in their leadership as it is biting them right square in the arse. Good golly I can't wait to leave this state... icon_puke Hey Dis... can we make a trade to send BD over to Philly? NYC will give you BD. You give us a box of cracker jack. 2 snickers bars and a six pack of beer. Fair trade and a win/win for both states.
Some of BD's words of wisdom....

"I think there's a socialistic impulse, which I hear every day, in every kind of community that they would like things to be planned in accordance to their needs."

Bill Diblasio… Look, if I had my druthers, the city government would determine every single plot of land, how development would proceed[.] ... And there would be very stringent requirements around income levels and rents. Later in the interview, de Blasio admitted that this type of governmental control is not possible right now – saying it causes "friction" and "anger" – but said that there are many people in New York City who would like to have a government that better addresses their daily needs.
"That's a world I'd love to see, and I think what we have, in this city at least, are people who would love to have the New Deal back, on one level," he said. "They'd love to have a very, very powerful government, including a federal government, involved in directly addressing their day-to-day reality."

At least Wild Bill has the temerity to admit what you FLP folks want for all of America...a very powerful government, including a federal government, involved in addressing their day to day reality. That is the exact opposite of what our founding fathers envisioned for this nation. They knew damn wellwhat a powerful government would do to the people. Which is why the FLP folks so desperatly want to change the constitution from bill of POSITIVE rights that protect us from our government to a bill of NEGATIVE rights that allows the government to do whatever it wants to us. They may very succeed because America has been dumbed down so much our people don't even know what our founding fathers gave us with our constitution.

[cradleandshoot]

Property taxes and unfunded mandates to the counties in NYS. The 2 biggest back breakers. In Monroe County around 80% of the county budget is required by the state of NY in unfunded mandates. That is in simplest term the powers that be in NYS telling all the counties what they have to spend. Whether it is affordable to the counties is irrelevant. There is not a county executive that I know of in upstate that is not 100% frustrated by this. These costs are passed over onto local residents via their property taxes. Which is the bottom line why so many boomers like my wife and I will be heading out of state.

Our property taxes on a very modest suburban home are over 6000 dollars a year. My best friend and neighbor and his wife just built a brand new house in South Carolina. Their property taxes are just over 900 a year. Granted that is not an apples to apples comparison but the savings per year is around 5000 dollars. On a fixed income that is a big deal. After 10 years that is 50000 thousand dollars to your benefit. I my wife and I could do a lot of traveling in 10 years for 50 grand. It becomes a no brainer after awhile. I don't like the idea of leaving my home state. It comes down to making the best financial decision for your future.

That is a good amount of money, and you certainly have to make good financial decisions to ensure a healthy retirement. You also get what you pay for in a lot of things - which is why NY is ranked decently better than SC for things like Education, Health Care access and treatment, infrastructure, crime rate and more. Looking out for #1 is important, but if we also don't look out for each other, the country is going to suffer.

Speaking just for upstate NY education in our state is beyond bad. It is more like abysmal and a miserable failure from top to bottom. https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 550929002/

[Typical Lax Dad]

Property taxes and unfunded mandates to the counties in NYS. The 2 biggest back breakers. In Monroe County around 80% of the county budget is required by the state of NY in unfunded mandates. That is in simplest term the powers that be in NYS telling all the counties what they have to spend. Whether it is affordable to the counties is irrelevant. There is not a county executive that I know of in upstate that is not 100% frustrated by this. These costs are passed over onto local residents via their property taxes. Which is the bottom line why so many boomers like my wife and I will be heading out of state.

Our property taxes on a very modest suburban home are over 6000 dollars a year. My best friend and neighbor and his wife just built a brand new house in South Carolina. Their property taxes are just over 900 a year. Granted that is not an apples to apples comparison but the savings per year is around 5000 dollars. On a fixed income that is a big deal. After 10 years that is 50000 thousand dollars to your benefit. I my wife and I could do a lot of traveling in 10 years for 50 grand. It becomes a no brainer after awhile. I don't like the idea of leaving my home state. It comes down to making the best financial decision for your future.

That is a good amount of money, and you certainly have to make good financial decisions to ensure a healthy retirement. You also get what you pay for in a lot of things - which is why NY is ranked decently better than SC for things like Education, Health Care access and treatment, infrastructure, crime rate and more. Looking out for #1 is important, but if we also don't look out for each other, the country is going to suffer.

Speaking just for upstate NY education in our state is beyond bad. It is more like abysmal and a miserable failure from top to bottom. https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 550929002/

Do you know if the school system was better when Rochester was better off economically or has it always been bad and nothing has changed?

[cradleandshoot]

TLD you ask the 64 thousand dollar question... nobody in charge at the Rochester City School District can wrap their arms around what the why is. The problem is an enormous number of very poor students attending schools in very challenged city neighborhoods. Suburban schools that surround the RCSD have done very well in common core testing. One of the solutions that has been put forth is to integrate all Monroe county schools into one schools district. The problem with that is that the RCSD has to find a way to be able to teach the children they have now to make them proficient with the grade levels they are now in. This debate has been going on for a decade a more. There is no solution that any one can see on the horizon. It is a very sad situation for these students in the RCSD that are not being taught what they need to know to get ahead in the world today.

[Typical Lax Dad]

TLD you ask the 64 thousand dollar question... nobody in charge at the Rochester City School District can wrap their arms around what the why is. The problem is an enormous number of very poor students attending schools in very challenged city neighborhoods. Suburban schools that surround the RCSD have done very well in common core testing. One of the solutions that has been put forth is to integrate all Monroe county schools into one schools district. The problem with that is that the RCSD has to find a way to be able to teach the children they have now to make them proficient with the grade levels they are now in. This debate has been going on for a decade a more. There is no solution that any one can see on the horizon. It is a very sad situation for these students in the RCSD that are not being taught what they need to know to get ahead in the world today.

I am not an educator but I imagine a lot of those kids not performing at grade level would catch up quickly in a good environment. It’s sad. In many cities as the working and lower middle classes were hollowed out when industry left, the school system follows suit. Rochester is like many mid size rust belt towns. Working poor. Families hit up the food pantry before going to work. It is common.

[Brooklyn]

Ocasio-Cortez Suggests Ditching Columbus Day For Election Day Holiday

Good idea...

..

Indeed - a very good idea.

So many people complain about others who don't vote in November elections. The reason why many don't is because they can't. They cannot get time off from work, or have enough time to take their kids to/from school, or cannot get to the polls in time to vote. Make it a day off from work and this will enable many millions more to vote.

[cradleandshoot]

TLD you ask the 64 thousand dollar question... nobody in charge at the Rochester City School District can wrap their arms around what the why is. The problem is an enormous number of very poor students attending schools in very challenged city neighborhoods. Suburban schools that surround the RCSD have done very well in common core testing. One of the solutions that has been put forth is to integrate all Monroe county schools into one schools district. The problem with that is that the RCSD has to find a way to be able to teach the children they have now to make them proficient with the grade levels they are now in. This debate has been going on for a decade a more. There is no solution that any one can see on the horizon. It is a very sad situation for these students in the RCSD that are not being taught what they need to know to get ahead in the world today.

I am not an educator but I imagine a lot of those kids not performing at grade level would catch up quickly in a good environment. It’s sad. In many cities as the working and lower middle classes were hollowed out when industry left, the school system follows suit. Rochester is like many mid size rust belt towns. Working poor. Families hit up the food pantry before going to work. It is common.

Interesting that you bring this up TLD. Rochester does have the Urban/Suburban program. This allows a number of students in the RCSD to transfer to suburban schools to further their education. The downside to this is that some folks in the RCSD claim this takes more students that want to learn away from the core population of students in RCSD as a whole. The net result being that a greater number of students that either don't want to learn or have issues with learning are left in schools that are already struggling. The solution asked for by the leadership of the RCSD is they need more money to improve the schools they serve.

The RCSD has just spent an enormous amount of money to improve the schools in the city. This includes modernization to every school building in the city. Will this work... nobody knows. There was a comment in our local paper from a teacher a few months ago that gives a clue to what one of the unspoken problems is. On a recent parent/teacher night only one parent took enough interest in their child to show up to see how the child was doing. How very sad is that?
https://www.rcsdk12.org/page/713 When it is all done this updating of the RCSD will cost well over a billion dollars. Will it actually result in better learning... nobody knows right now.