All things CoronaVirus

[6ftstick]

not a supporter. his mismanagement has been abysmal.
my premise is we were woefully unprepared and no prospective leader would've changed the ultimate outcome.
there is simply nothing to indicate otherwise.
that is not a defense of how this has been handled.

That is not true. Hillary Clinton was the Secretary of State. She knows the leaders in China well. She knows the leaders in South Korea well. She knows the leaders in Taiwan well. She knows the leaders in Singapore well. She knows the leaders in Europe well.

She knows them all, and she would have been constantly speaking with them, learning what they’re doing. What works. What doesn’t.

You also forget that Hillary Clinton understands the American health care system better than just about any other political leader in America. She has been working on health care issues for decades.

You forgot just who the hell she is ... arguably the most qualified candidate for president in modern American history.

Indeed, Hillary Clinton would have been almost uniquely qualified to lead not only the United States, but the entire world in combatting the novel coronavirus.

Voting for Trump instead may just have cost 100,000 American lives. A steep price for those who liked Trump’s vulgarity, racism, and misogyny.

DocBarrister

wow.
hope you and yours are ok otherwise.

She couldn't and wouldn't protect 4 people in the US Embassy in Benghazi.

"arguably the most qualified candidate for president in modern American history." Ridiculous.

[foreverlax]

24,742 new confirmed cases.

912 additional deaths.

For the first time, the United States led the daily death count. We could exceed 1,000 deaths tomorrow.

Italy is no longer the worst-case scenario. We are.

This is just tragic. All those families who will be left behind, grieving.

DocB

Italys fatality rate is 11%. US is .66%. Far from the worst case scenario.

....unless it's you.

[6ftstick]

24,742 new confirmed cases.

912 additional deaths.

For the first time, the United States led the daily death count. We could exceed 1,000 deaths tomorrow.

Italy is no longer the worst-case scenario. We are.

This is just tragic. All those families who will be left behind, grieving.

DocB

Italys fatality rate is 11%. US is .66%. Far from the worst case scenario.

....unless it's you.

Which was not the point of his post was it. Too cute by half

[MDlaxfan76]

I agree that HRC would have handled this better, though not perfectly for sure.

I don't share Doc's degree of enthusiasm about HRC, but directionally he's correct.

There's almost no one who could have, much less would have, convinced so many people not to be concerned with "just the flu" than Trump. The degree of arrogance and petulance is unmatched, coupled with a megaphone unparalleled in our history. At a minimum, that's cost tens of thousands of lives and trillions of economic damage.

Jeb would have been immensely more competent, with instincts far superior at every darn step. Anyone actually question that, now?

Obama? Romney, McCain?

There's no question that any of these would have been far superior in their management of this challenge. None of them would have denied the science, the harsh reality of the impending calamity. And all of them would have called their government to action much earlier, demanding progress.

Which doesn't mean that there wouldn't have been screw ups, or that any of them would have necessarily put the country in lockdown soon enough to totally avoid the catastrophe (though weeks earlier).

There's no doubt in my mind that testing would not have been allowed to tumble along so slowly without the Chief Executive shaking it up much earlier.

And there's none of these who would have so dumbly said "we're not a shipping clerk" and resisted federalizing the supply and distribution of essential materials to combat the virus, from testing, to PPE's, to ventilators. That would have been moved on by any of these, early on.

And they'd be looking at the food system and getting PPE's to that channel. It's critical to keep that flowing.

It would still be very, very rough, but the magnitude of damage would have been much lower.

But here we are. We have the POTUS we have.
Thank god he appears to be scared now.
Still stupid, still petulant, but finally letting the science and truth be told to the American people.

And that's a good thing.

However, 30 days is still understating...this is definitely going to need continued shut down through May, likely beyond.
I wish they'd just say it. It's unavoidable at this point.

[foreverlax]

24,742 new confirmed cases.

912 additional deaths.

For the first time, the United States led the daily death count. We could exceed 1,000 deaths tomorrow.

Italy is no longer the worst-case scenario. We are.

This is just tragic. All those families who will be left behind, grieving.

DocB

Italys fatality rate is 11%. US is .66%. Far from the worst case scenario.

....unless it's you.

Which was not the point of his post was it. Too cute by half

He told us a month ago that 15 would be going to zero

He told us a two weeks ago, everyone who wants a test can get a test.

He told us last week he believed we should open back up by Easter.

He told us this week that medical is missing.

Can't wait for the CV19 commission to tell us what we all ready know - The point is, we are behind the 8 ball because Trump felt this was the flu and didn't want to make a big deal about it....it would be bad press. He wanted to ride it out.

I

[MDlaxfan76]

24,742 new confirmed cases.

912 additional deaths.

For the first time, the United States led the daily death count. We could exceed 1,000 deaths tomorrow.

Italy is no longer the worst-case scenario. We are.

This is just tragic. All those families who will be left behind, grieving.

DocB

Italys fatality rate is 11%. US is .66%. Far from the worst case scenario.

....unless it's you.

Which was not the point of his post was it. Too cute by half

hmmm, you are correct 6ft, the worst case is that the US' fatality rate rises as health systems break down as Italy's did.

Likewise, that it runs rampant through the elderly population in places like Florida.
The US has a median age of 37, Italy is 48, so far more vulnerable.

So, yes, "the worst case" is yet to come.
But I think Doc's point is that's what's happening in the US.
We're just a few weeks later.

[6ftstick]

I agree that HRC would have handled this better, though not perfectly for sure.

I don't share Doc's degree of enthusiasm about HRC, but directionally he's correct.

There's almost no one who could have, much less would have, convinced so many people not to be concerned with "just the flu" than Trump. The degree of arrogance and petulance is unmatched, coupled with a megaphone unparalleled in our history. At a minimum, that's cost tens of thousands of lives and trillions of economic damage.

Jeb would have been immensely more competent, with instincts far superior at every darn step. Anyone actually question that, now?

Obama? Romney, McCain?

There's no question that any of these would have been far superior in their management of this challenge. None of them would have denied the science, the harsh reality of the impending calamity. And all of them would have called their government to action much earlier, demanding progress.

Which doesn't mean that there wouldn't have been screw ups, or that any of them would have necessarily put the country in lockdown soon enough to totally avoid the catastrophe (though weeks earlier).

There's no doubt in my mind that testing would not have been allowed to tumble along so slowly without the Chief Executive shaking it up much earlier.

And there's none of these who would have so dumbly said "we're not a shipping clerk" and resisted federalizing the supply and distribution of essential materials to combat the virus, from testing, to PPE's, to ventilators. That would have been moved on by any of these, early on.

And they'd be looking at the food system and getting PPE's to that channel. It's critical to keep that flowing.

It would still be very, very rough, but the magnitude of damage would have been much lower.

But here we are. We have the POTUS we have.
Thank god he appears to be scared now.
Still stupid, still petulant, but finally letting the science and truth be told to the American people.

And that's a good thing.

Mere speculation.

Prominent Democrats—late in February and early March—were advising people to "come on out take the subway, go to restaurants" "Enjoy Mardi Gras"
"lets show our chinese community how much we appreciate them and join in the New Year parade. Here in the year of the rat.

From the New York City Health Commissioner Oxiris Barbot

“There is no reason not to take the subway, not to take the bus, not to go out to your favorite restaurant, and certainly not to miss the parade next Sunday.” Barbot said during a Feb. 2 press conference addressing the pandemic.

Barbot was referring to a New York Chinatown parade, which celebrates China’s New Year and took place on Feb. 9. Barbot appeared to suggest Trump’s travel restrictions were racist in Feb. 2 tweet to her followers.

“I want to be clear, this is about a virus, not a group of people. There is NO excuse for anyone to discriminate or stigmatize people of Asian heritage. We are here today to urge all New Yorkers to continue to live their lives as usual,” she said.

You haven't a clue what would be different now if someone else was president. Not a clue

[jhu72]

The Abbott Labs 5/15 min. test was mentioned again at today’s presser. Also repeated that they are making 50,000 tests per day. I assume that is their max capacity, working 24/7.

I still don’t understand why this test can’t be licensed to multiple other manufacturers, some of which I assume would have greater capacity.

As everyone has noted, massive testing is key. I would like to see test kits be as common as Chiclets (younger posters may need to Google).

This all such SPIN.

The machine Trump showed off, already exists in thousands of labs in the US. Wife's office has one. They are for running point of care tests. The only thing Abbott did was they developed the chemical test cartridge that allows the machine to also test for rona. They are not doing 50,000 tests per day. Abbott is manufacturing a large number of test kits per day. Maybe they are at 50K, but I doubt it. They will likely ramp to that. Their manufacturing capacity is probably 50K per day. The ID machine itself would be hard pressed to do 12 and hour. 5 minutes each.

These guys just spin, making everything sound like it is more than it is.

I have heard the 50,000 per day a couple of times. Not sure if they are there yet. Very good to hear there are many of the machines around the country.

I just don’t understand why the cartridge or test kit or whatever it is can’t be manufactured on a mass basis. They don’t sound that complicated. Yes, you may need Abbott to share some technology, in particular compatibility with their machine. But, for goodness sake’s, this is a national emergency.

I also understand that the machines are made for doctors offices. But, again, the machines don’t seem to be all that complicated (I’ve seen videos), certainly not as complicated as a ventilator. Why not mass produce them (we are going to need huge numbers of tests for at least many months) and have them distributed on a widespread basis? They also don’t sound that complicated to operate. Probably a rather low level technician could be trained quickly to do so. -- Yes. Absolutely. I have described these machines before. They are table top machines. You put the chemical mix in and the sample, and it gives you the results back. I described this process before and some dumbass Trumpnista poster took offense that I called it "childs play". It really is. That is the whole point. If it weren't it would be far less useful. These units have been used for flu and other infectious diseases for years.

As I understand it, the other tests (e.g., Roche) are much slower and require PPE. The Abbott test doesn’t. -- The Abbott test may or may not require PPE. Depends on the sample being tested. In this case, it certainly does not need anything more than nitrile gloves, gown and an N-95 mask. You would not have to constantly change that gear, like a nurse or doctor in close proximity to the patients. You could wear it all day if it is your job to drive one of these machines.

As everyone has noted, even after we get past this first wave, there very likely will be a second wave, or more. We are going to need widespread testing until a vaccine has been administered to the large majority of people in the country, or at least until a very effective therapeutic is discovered and widely available.

Widespread testing will be critical to any ability to keep the country more or less open until the vaccine or therapeutic is available. If we don’t have it, I don’t see how we can get away from the strict social distancing, etc. rules we are operating under now. Even then, I can’t imagine mass gatherings, such as college or pro football games, being advisable.

Just a note, Abbott is not the only one that makes point of care test systems. Not all systems are alike, some are dedicated to a single test. Some like Abbott can test for a wide variety of things so long as the diagnostic test fits the general test model. Chemicals and sample in, test results out. There is no chemical supply standardization that I am aware of, so Abbott test kit will not work with the testing machine of any other manufacturer.

[6ftstick]

24,742 new confirmed cases.

912 additional deaths.

For the first time, the United States led the daily death count. We could exceed 1,000 deaths tomorrow.

Italy is no longer the worst-case scenario. We are.

This is just tragic. All those families who will be left behind, grieving.

DocB

Italys fatality rate is 11%. US is .66%. Far from the worst case scenario.

....unless it's you.

Which was not the point of his post was it. Too cute by half

hmmm, you are correct 6ft, the worst case is that the US' fatality rate rises as health systems break down as Italy's did.

Likewise, that it runs rampant through the elderly population in places like Florida.
The US has a median age of 37, Italy is 48, so far more vulnerable.

So, yes, "the worst case" is yet to come.
But I think Doc's point is that's what's happening in the US.
We're just a few weeks later.

And the opposite is what's happening on the ground.

The more people we test and find have the virus the actual mortality rate LOWERS.

Two weeks ago US mortality rate was 16%

[jhu72]

24,742 new confirmed cases.

912 additional deaths.

For the first time, the United States led the daily death count. We could exceed 1,000 deaths tomorrow.

Italy is no longer the worst-case scenario. We are.

This is just tragic. All those families who will be left behind, grieving.

DocB

Italys fatality rate is 11%. US is .66%. Far from the worst case scenario.

....unless it's you.

Which was not the point of his post was it. Too cute by half

hmmm, you are correct 6ft, the worst case is that the US' fatality rate rises as health systems break down as Italy's did.

Likewise, that it runs rampant through the elderly population in places like Florida.
The US has a median age of 37, Italy is 48, so far more vulnerable.

So, yes, "the worst case" is yet to come.
But I think Doc's point is that's what's happening in the US.
We're just a few weeks later.

And the opposite is what's happening on the ground.

The more people we test and find have the virus the actual mortality rate LOWERS.

Two weeks ago US mortality rate was 16%

This is meaningless if you are not testing. Just the fact that it was 16% -- is incontrovertible proof that we weren't testing enough. You have to apply brain when you consider the meaning of the numbers.

[foreverlax]

24,742 new confirmed cases.

912 additional deaths.

For the first time, the United States led the daily death count. We could exceed 1,000 deaths tomorrow.

Italy is no longer the worst-case scenario. We are.

This is just tragic. All those families who will be left behind, grieving.

DocB

Italys fatality rate is 11%. US is .66%. Far from the worst case scenario.

....unless it's you.

Which was not the point of his post was it. Too cute by half

hmmm, you are correct 6ft, the worst case is that the US' fatality rate rises as health systems break down as Italy's did.

Likewise, that it runs rampant through the elderly population in places like Florida.
The US has a median age of 37, Italy is 48, so far more vulnerable.

So, yes, "the worst case" is yet to come.
But I think Doc's point is that's what's happening in the US.
We're just a few weeks later.

And the opposite is what's happening on the ground.

The more people we test and find have the virus the actual mortality rate LOWERS.

Two weeks ago US mortality rate was 16%

The rate...you want to argue about the rate.....we know it will wind up +/- around 1-2%.

15 going to zero, my a$$

[6ftstick]

not a supporter. his mismanagement has been abysmal.
my premise is we were woefully unprepared and no prospective leader would've changed the ultimate outcome.
there is simply nothing to indicate otherwise.
that is not a defense of how this has been handled.

wgdrs, I'll go along that this was going to be a nightmare no matter who was in charge. The question we are left with now is really only how long it takes for us to get up to speed enough to get on top of this thing. A month right now seems optimistic.

Except that Chernobyl was minor league stuff compared to the horrors we are facing.

DocBarrister

Comparing one Communist created disaster to another

Viktor Sushko, deputy director general of the National Research Centre for Radiation Medicine (NRCRM) based in Kiev, Ukraine, describes the Chernobyl disaster as the “largest anthropogenic disaster in the history of humankind”. The NRCRM estimate around five million citizens of the former USSR, including three million in Ukraine, have suffered as a result of Chernobyl, while in Belarus around 800,000 people were registered as being affected by radiation following the disaster.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2019 ... death-toll

[6ftstick]

24,742 new confirmed cases.

912 additional deaths.

For the first time, the United States led the daily death count. We could exceed 1,000 deaths tomorrow.

Italy is no longer the worst-case scenario. We are.

This is just tragic. All those families who will be left behind, grieving.

DocB

Italys fatality rate is 11%. US is .66%. Far from the worst case scenario.

....unless it's you.

Which was not the point of his post was it. Too cute by half

hmmm, you are correct 6ft, the worst case is that the US' fatality rate rises as health systems break down as Italy's did.

Likewise, that it runs rampant through the elderly population in places like Florida.
The US has a median age of 37, Italy is 48, so far more vulnerable.

So, yes, "the worst case" is yet to come.
But I think Doc's point is that's what's happening in the US.
We're just a few weeks later.

And the opposite is what's happening on the ground.

The more people we test and find have the virus the actual mortality rate LOWERS.

Two weeks ago US mortality rate was 16%

This is meaningless if you are not testing. Just the fact that it was 16% -- is incontrovertible proof that we weren't testing enough. You have to apply brain when you consider the meaning of the numbers.

Which part of this did you miss

The more people we test and find have the virus the actual mortality rate LOWERS.

[Peter Brown]

Technology and capitalism will beat this virus faster than the fear purveyors wish. It already is.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/23/cli ... rus-treatm

https://time.com/5812664/5-minute-coronavirus-test/

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/ana ... cov-drugs/

Buy the dips, never short the human brain (unless it skews left, then of course short it).

[jhu72]

Unlikely hot spot -- Albany GA. Spread among well wishers at funerals.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgia/2 ... -covid-19/

NY, NJ, MI & LA have all now passed WA & CA in number of deaths.
Mitigation is working in our first 2 hot spots.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-in ... e-by-state

Big states and the governors got onto it early, even with less than a totally compliant populous in CA. I think it is too early to say they are out of the woods, but they are definitely two examples of playing smart catch up, seemingly paying off. Still too little testing in both places.

[ardilla secreta]

Toronto has just announced that all public events are banned to June 30th. I’d say we’re in this for the long run.

[jhu72]

No surprise. The stupid side of humans.

Savor the Karmic irony of Franklin Graham's charity erecting & staffing a 68 bed tent COVID ICU in Central Park in just 3 days time.
Will MSNBC viewers & NY Times readers boycott ?

Good use of church resources.

[6ftstick]

Unlikely hot spot -- Albany GA. Spread among well wishers at funerals.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgia/2 ... -covid-19/

NY, NJ, MI & LA have all now passed WA & CA in number of deaths.
Mitigation is working in our first 2 hot spots.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-in ... e-by-state

Big states and the governors got onto it early, even with less than a totally compliant populous in CA. I think it is too early to say they are out of the woods, but they are definitely two examples of playing smart catch up, seemingly paying off. Still too little testing in both places.

You do understand that at the current mortality rate of .66%—in order for 100K Americans to die in the next two weeks—15 MILLION Americans have to contract the virus. In the next two weeks. There are fewer than 1,000,000 confirmed cases GLOBALLY right now.

[Matnum PI]

The point is, we are behind the 8 ball because Trump felt this was the flu and didn't want to make a big deal about it....it would be bad press. He wanted to ride it out.

There's a faction, sadly, a large faction, of Americans who care about the economy and only the economy. Trump could shoot a man in the middle of Fifth Avenue and, as long as the economy's good, they'd vote for him in 2020. Trump is obsessed with money. It's what feeds his narcissistic ego. He loves $ more than he loves his wife and children. At his roast, you could make fun of anything except... Don't say he has less $ than he claims. Trump = $. (Though, in reality, Trump = Debt but that's a separate post.) This is America's Achilles' Heel. What we'll do for $. Greed. Trump did what he did for $. People followed him for $. And, as long as people put $ before *everything*, Trump will have a following and America will suffer.

[Matnum PI]

You do understand that at the current mortality rate of .66%—in order for 100K Americans to die in the next two weeks—15 MILLION Americans have to contract the virus. In the next two weeks. There are fewer than 1,000,000 confirmed cases GLOBALLY right now.

This will not be over in 2 weeks. Not even close.